FSTramp Users Rejoice!

[falcon409]

Version 6.0 is available on their website and the long awaited Flight Plan option is here.
http://www.fstramp.com/

[falcon409]

Also, just a heads up. For those of us who "know it all" and don't need the manual, lol. . .this isn't the old "drag n' drop" from the FSNav days. . . .you now "right click" on the airport and select "to Flight Plan". Now go read the manual, lol.

[dougal]

Oh wow! Just seen how the pricing works out. Alas this is waaaaaay to much for my pocket. Not seen a time limited scheme like this before

[falcon409]

Oh wow! Just seen how the pricing works out. Alas this is waaaaaay to much for my pocket. Not seen a time limited scheme like this before

I'm hoping that something has been lost in the translation.
From the PDF Manual:
A license key has a limited validity from the time it is
sent by e-mail. Therefore do not buy keys in advance! Validity of the key will expire also when it is not
used. License keys are available for 1-4 years of validity. All license keys will be valid for all future
versions of FSTramp, that begin with 6.0.

Basically if you purchase a license key but then don't register the software right away (use the registration key) it's use is limited and can expire. You would have to pay for another key. . .at least I'm hoping that's what that means. I don't believe he means this to be "renewable every year".

[mgr]

Hiya,

I'm hoping that something has been lost in the translation.
From the PDF Manual:
A license key has a limited validity from the time it is
sent by e-mail. Therefore do not buy keys in advance! Validity of the key will expire also when it is not
used. License keys are available for 1-4 years of validity. All license keys will be valid for all future
versions of FSTramp, that begin with 6.0.

Basically if you purchase a license key but then don't register the software right away (use the registration key) it's use is limited and can expire. You would have to pay for another key. . .at least I'm hoping that's what that means. I don't believe he means this to be "renewable every year".

You have to pay either for 1 year (Eur 30) up to 4 years (Eur 80).
See: https://secure.shareit.com/shareit/p...%2Ffstramp.com

The only phrase on this pages

"During the selected time, you can take all the upgrades free of charge. The license key is therefore not tied to a specific version number."

Make me wonder if it mean, if your 1 year expires you are NO entitle on further updates yet the version you have will remain fully functional.

Marcel

[falcon409]

If that's the case, would I be correct in assuming that those of us who have had FSTramp since it's initial release are exempt. . . .or. . .since I paid $45. for it originally, it will expire one year from now??
On the surface, I would think he's shot himself in the foot on this one. This is an extremely valuable utility, especially now that it's full functionality has been realized. He could find that he may lose more than he expected to gain with this switch in policy. JS

[dougal]

If that's the case, would I be correct in assuming that those of us who have had FSTramp since it's initial release are exempt. . . .or. . .since I paid $45. for it originally, it will expire one year from now??
On the surface, I would think he's shot himself in the foot on this one. This is an extremely valuable utility, especially now that it's full functionality has been realized. He could find that he may lose more than he expected to gain with this switch in policy. JS

Its not clear at all is it!?

I read it to mean the software would not be functional after the license expires - very confusing either way, but truly shocking if it's that's the case.

[mikew]

It appears to work just like a magazine subscription. You can buy a 1, 2, 3 or 4 year subscription. After the specific period expires you'd have to buy again.

Mike

[Corpse_Grinder]

Because I use FSX, having to be in windowed mode kills it for me. I refuse to run windowed. If it could be run on a separate network computer then I might bite. I currently use Aivlasoft EFB and FSInn on my networked laptop and it works beautifully for what I need. I have to say though, I LOVED my FSNav back in the day. I completely understand the reasoning behind the subscription thing, but between running windowed and the subscription, count me out.

(The Aivlasoft EFB works great, so if it ain't broke....)

[falcon409]

This goes back to the original, but FSNav was, in my opinion, the single best thing to ever happened to flight sim navigation. Especially at that time, there was nothing that could touch it and it's "drag n' drop" function for doing flight plans was it's most popular feature. Then along came FSX, there was a rumor that there would be a new version coming out. . .then Helge disappeared and eventually FSNav was taken off the market. At that point, for all intents and purposes, we had seen the last of FSNav or any future version.

Then out of the blue, Helge returns with FSTramp. The spittin' image of FSNav in every way except one. The ability to do flight plans was gone. 3 years ago I e-mailed Helge and asked about the possibility of that being incorporated and he assured me that within a year it would be. That year came and went and so the following year, in March I e-mailed him again to check on the status. . .he sent me a screenshot. It showed, what I guessed was the flight planner in FSTramp. . .no explanation just a screenshot. Six months later I e-mailed him again asking what the screenshot was supposed to tell me, lol. His answer. . ."I felt it was a picture worth a thousand words". He said it would be released by mid-year, then end of the year and then finally it shows up yesterday.

Personally, I don't get the subscription idea. Apparently, and maybe he's right, he feels that now that FSTramp has equaled the late great FSNav, that people will simply have to have this latest iteration and will pay through the nose to keep it. Hell, 45 bucks a year. . .I waste more than that in any given month or incidentals that I don't need, so saying I wouldn't pay it is probably a stretch. . .but it pisses me off that he would stoop to this, knowing full well that those of us who purchased right after it was released, bought it with the promise that flight planning would eventually be incorporated. . .at that price. . .not on an annual payment plan.

[AussieMan]

$AU51 for 1 year to $AU176 for 4 years is a little expensive for this old pensioner. I have FSTramp 5.6 and will stick with that and load my flight plans I create in PlanG if I need to.

[falcon409]

$AU51 for 1 year to $AU176 for 4 years is a little expensive for this old pensioner. I have FSTramp 5.6 and will stick with that and load my flight plans I create in PlanG if I need to.

I have to agree Pat. I mean as a comparison, take your favorite payware aircraft. . .one you fly almost all the time, has all the bells and whistles, everything you ever wanted in a detailed, precise flying airplane and then know that every year you would be required to pay the developer the purchase price again in order to keep the aircraft, otherwise it would quit working. . . .or, even better, pay three or four years in advance! Seriously?

[jschall]

Has anybody here BOUGHT an FSTramp v6 licence yet?

If we as a group boycott v6, maybe Helge will get the message and adjust his pricing to something reasonable.

[jmbiii]

I was considering getting it but, when I read through the pricing info I backed off.
It's a bit too much for me. I might have pulled the trigger if it was a one time cost. Might have . . . . .

[falcon409]

Has anybody here BOUGHT an FSTramp v6 license yet?
If we as a group boycott v6, maybe Helge will get the message and adjust his pricing to something reasonable.

That "might" get his attention if it was a full out boycott by every individual who was either about to purchase FSTramp or whose license was about to expire. Problem is, too many folks just lurk in the dark recesses of SOH and "view" but never speak. . .grab morsels of information or products but see no reasons to participate. Without complete participation I don't know that the few of us who would vent our frustration with this yearly payment scheme would cause Helge to do much more than shift a bit in his chair, lol.

He does give everyone an "out"of sorts by noting that you can always go back to V_5.6, however with that you also lose the "icing on the cake", that is the long awaited flight plan function. For those of us who have had the program since it's release 4 years ago, the exact impact of this is a bit murky at best. Will our license expire at some designated point or does this only affect those who have purchased in the past few months and those who purchase V6.0 from this point on? That doesn't seem clear in anything I've read so far.

[DaveB]

I didn't realise FSTramp was going to end up as the FSX version of FSNav. FSNav says what it is. FSTramp suggests god knows what!! Agree with Ed that FSN was one of if not the best addon I've ever bought too. I wouldn't move to FS9 until it was updated to run in that sim and with no apparent replacement/update for FSX, I found myself having to jump over without a viable (for me) navigation tool. At that point, I stopped flying on our VA as I was never happy with the available nav progs.
While I'm glad to see him back in circulation, I'm not up to this degree of financial commitment either. Damn shame.
Atb
DaveB

[falcon409]

I didn't realise FSTramp was going to end up as the FSX version of FSNav. FSNav says what it is. FSTramp suggests god knows what!! Agree with Ed that FSN was one of if not the best addon I've ever bought too. I wouldn't move to FS9 until it was updated to run in that sim and with no apparent replacement/update for FSX, I found myself having to jump over without a viable (for me) navigation tool. At that point, I stopped flying on our VA as I was never happy with the available nav progs.
While I'm glad to see him back in circulation, I'm not up to this degree of financial commitment either. Damn shame.
Atb
DaveB

Dave, I remember seeing FSTramp advertised somewhere (not sure where now) in early 2012. I downloaded the Demo and immediately recognized what I was looking at. It was, for the most part, the spittin' image of FSNav. That was confirmed when I looked at the name of the developer (Helge) who brought us FSNav. I was glad to see it's resurrection and the possibility of having it now for FSX and over the years he has updated it periodically to keep up with other sim upgrade/updates (FSX/SE, P3D_v2-P3D_v3) and finally the flight planning module has arrived. I don't at all agree with his decision to make it time sensitive and just with the few who have voiced an opinion here, I would say he has lost sales rather than added new customers. That's just my opinion though.

One thing this update did not contain was the "export" function for those flight plans we make. FSNav had that ability to not only export as "pln" files but also several other sims and flight plan extensions. The ability to produce "ini" files is no longer possible, which for the normal flyer is no big deal, but anyone who uses the ini to produce Hop Lists is out of luck as that's the format that FSHost requires. Helge says there is too small a need for that to spend the time programming it for use in FSTramp, so it won't happen.

I have sent Helge a carefully worded e-mail expressing my thanks for the recent update but also my displeasure with his pricing policy. I expect a brief reply, with very few but well chosen words, letting me know what he thinks of my "displeasure", lol. If it's repeatable I will publish it here!

[DaveB]

Thanks for that Ed

Does it say anywhere what the annual fee might be for. FSNav used Airac data which went 'payware' if I remember right.. that is, you were no longer able to download the latest data without paying a fee. I guess I'm clutching at straws trying to rationalise why he might be charging an annual fee I wouldn't mind making a 'one off' purchase for the prog and letting the data lapse at the end of the term but no way am I going to buy it only to have it timeout after 12months
ATB
DaveB

[falcon409]

As promised, here is Helge response to my e-mail. Normally a man of few words, he did a nice job of laying out in black and white just what it actually takes to develop a program like this based on present day salaries:

Hi,

thanks for the congratulations.

Now to the question of the v5 license key. When used with FSTramp v5.x the key is valid indefinitely.
Within one year from the date of purchase you can also use Release 6. Then you can go back to version 5, and use it indefinitely. I can not retrospectively change the license terms of Release 5.

Now for sale, price and system.

The development of FSTramp has cost $200,000. Average gross wage of a programmer.
Of this $80,000 the step from v5.6 to v6.

At $35 selling price I get $15. (Tax and dealer commission)
With average sales of 400 licenses per year, it takes to payback:

$200,000/(400 * $15) = 33Year

That is the reality today. The free developers get $5 per hour worked and the dealers earn 25% to 35% commission.
Based on this data, I feel the sales system as appropriate. It allows an affordable selling price for young people who use for a short time FSX Steam. At the same time, these short-term users sponsors the system and allow good prices for long-term users.

Or should I generally require $200 for unlimited use?

Best Regards,
Helge Schroeder
Team FSTramp

So there you have it. A "here's what it would cost" if I had to pay a programmer to develop this program. Pretty eye opening, even if you only consider what it took to go from V5.6 to 6.0. I may still not agree with the policy change, but I understand where it's coming from and it's hard to begrudge someone who spent 4+ years working on a program for flight sim, knowing he would never recoup the numbers he's projected.

[DaveB]

Thanks for that Ed.

I remain unconvinced I'm afraid. The math could be argued without agreement until the cows come home so it's pointless commenting further. I'm not in a position to fund the last 4yrs R&D only to have it disappear in 12months.
ATB
DaveB

[falcon409]

Thanks for that Ed.

I remain unconvinced I'm afraid. The math could be argued without agreement until the cows come home so it's pointless commenting further. I'm not in a position to fund the last 4yrs R&D only to have it disappear in 12months.
ATB
DaveB

Yep, I understand and I'm afraid that many others who might have taken the leap with the latest upgrade will feel the same and simply pass.

[AussieMan]

Yep, I understand and I'm afraid that many others who might have taken the leap with the latest upgrade will feel the same and simply pass.

Ed, I read Helge's reply to your email and like many others who already have FSTramp V5.6 I will be passing on V6.0 until he realises that he has made a grave mistake.

Can you imagine how many versions of the DH Dove, Chipmunk, Viscount, DC-6, DC-3 Just flight would sell if the charged an annual fee for you buying their aircraft?

Is see no sense in his logic. A one off registration fee would sell more versions of FSTramp than he will sell now.

[falcon409]

Ed, I read Helge's reply to your email and like many others who already have FSTramp V5.6 I will be passing on V6.0 until he realises that he has made a grave mistake.

Can you imagine how many versions of the DH Dove, Chipmunk, Viscount, DC-6, DC-3 Just flight would sell if the charged an annual fee for you buying their aircraft?

Is see no sense in his logic. A one off registration fee would sell more versions of FSTramp than he will sell now.

Pat, how long have you had FSTramp?

[Gooneybird565]

Just a few words...
I have been a very happy user of FSNav since I discovered it, and that was really the very best payware addon I purchased at these times.
When moving to FSX, I decided to purchase FSTramp, considering that even if the flightplanning ability was inactive, it was still a very useful addon to me, and also to provide some (financial) support to the developper, hoping that flightplanning was integrated again into the addon.
I later moved to P3D, and was still using FSTramp, basically as a moving map, a radar screen, a good way to check my navigational calculations, and also to follow my flights progress, autopilot being off or on.
Under FSX, and P3D, I have been using Plan-G for flight planning itself, but still prefered FSTramp as moving map or radar screen, as running inside the simulator, it was using less resources on my own PC than running the simulator + Plan-G.
When FSTramp v6 popped-up, my very personal choice was to buy this version to gain sufficient, not to say nearly complete, practice of this software. And my finding up to now is that this is really a very useful addon. But due to the new pricing policy, I only purchased a 1-year licence, hoping that with the time, the developper will come back to more reasonable price levels.
I can understand that we, the users, might be requested to give out some good money for each new major version (I did it for version 2.5, then for version 3.x, and will do it for version 4.x and following), but not for a time period only.
Not to be pessimistic, when a new version is out, you can purchase it. But if you pay for a given time period, are you sure there will still be a development team when your licence expires?
On the other hand, I can not understand that an argumentation is given on basics from the professional world, as flightsimming is not our job, it is only our leisure. And where I fully agree that hard work deserves a compensation, I actually find that a yearly fee in those ranges is not "within my budget". Being born in 1952, I expect to be a happy flightsimmer for many more years. And definetely, if the rates schedule has not improved, I will return to the FSTramp v5.6 + Plan-G combination when my v6 licence expires (unless some other good similar application has been released by an other developper, of course).

So, for the moment, I am on the learning curve with FSTramp v6 (my FSNav memories are too old), and just to mention a very precise questionning, being a VFR flyer on old roaring props, I use, and generate from time to time, flightplans where waypoints are where radials of two navaids are joining. (So far I have not reached the last page of FSTramp's help file, although this is on my daily "improve your knowledge" list)...

All the above being of course my own thoughts, opinions, decisions (right or not), and of course applying only to me

Philippe

[AussieMan]

Pat, how long have you had FSTramp?

Ed, I have been using FSTramp since about 2011 and the licence I purchased then is still active as I have just re-installed 5.6 after looking at 6.0 and not liking what I saw. Not even a chance to try it before you paid for the licence.