My final callout...

[Bone]

...on this topic. I'm not casting a dispersion on Cliff Presley, because I really never believed he said you couldn't see the wings. However, be it as it may, anyone who says they flew an F-105, and who tells you that you can't see the wings, is someone lying about having flown the F-105.

If a dev just doesn't want to put the bloody things in the model because he doesn't want to, then fine, but don't insist you can't see this stuff in real life because A) You're lying about it just to get people off of your back, or B) The expert you've employed is a sham. Just say you don't want to put them in. There's already enough misperception among flight simmers about aviation IRL, not to have to contend with wholesale untruths and BS.




compare with the open canopy

[N2056]

Geez...that horse looks pretty dead from where I'm sitting. :isadizzy:

[Bone]

It's as dead as the brain of some of the people who, after being given proof to the contrary, still insist you can't see this stuff. I'm not going to divulge the names or number of emails I have related to dealing with this behind the scenes, but suffice to say there are some misinformed people calling things real. There are a lot of very smart and talented people in the sim business, but there's a definite disconnect on what's real.

[Paul Domingue]

Now that you have proved your point, let's move on to more important questions about flight.

[Bone]

Lol. Just about every line of dialog in that movie was fair game to be reiterated over and over during unsober moments in the 1980's. I'm thinking I saw it for the first of many times in 1979, if I'm not mistaken. This was one of my favorite parts.

[Geomitrak]

...on this topic. I'm not casting a dispersion on Cliff Presley

Erm...its 'aspersion' not dispersion. Dispersion is the the action or process of distributing things or people over a wide area.

Love that first picture, though. And no harm in proving a point if you want to.

[kilo delta]

Erm...its 'aspersion' not dispersion. Dispersion is the the action or process of distributing things or people over a wide area.

Love that first picture, though. And no harm in proving a point if you want to.

Nope...he meant dispersion....as in Chemtrails

























j/k

[Bone]

lol, KD

[Daveroo]

You can see the wing from the cockpit of a single place D (bud anderson)

the above is from an email i recieved from Bud Anderson concerning this issue,i decided id email him ask him what he can remember seeing from his cockpit when he flew the F-105D over Vietnam.i did not include the entire email as the rest is personal.

Dave

[fsafranek]

I was going to say something but after typing it and reading it I decided not to. I fell better already.

While we're here though, was the photo taken from a D or an F? That might have some effect on how much of the wing you can see in a quick backward glance but maybe not.

For what its worth Milviz did make the Alphasim F-105D (I painted the additional schemes) but Phil contracted with someone else for the VC (the VC textures were too dark in both Cliff's and my opinion). I believe the VC is where the external views come in. So they got it wrong and an old pilot, to the best of his abilities, couldn't recall being able to see the wing. Perhaps he was more concerned with his wingman out there than to notice if the wings bowed or not, let alone if they were even there? We all know that when you look at something that you focus on it and don't see everything else that is out there. Photographs reveal this fact all the time.

In any case maybe you can help the next Thud project get it right?
:ernae:

[MenendezDiego]

Just a thought; wouldn't you check your ailerons before taxiing out?

[fsafranek]

Just a thought; wouldn't you check your ailerons before taxiing out?

That's what crew chiefs are for.

Anyway, it's just a sim, right?. I go to spot view for that sort of thing.

[MenendezDiego]

That's what crew chiefs are for.

Anyway, it's just a sim, right?. I go to spot view for that sort of thing.

No, I meant a real world F-105D pilot. Wouldn't you remember being able to see the wings if you're supposed to check your control surface deflection, more specifically your aileron deflection before taxiing out? Crew chief or no crew chief, a pilot always checks for himself.

[fsafranek]

No, I meant a real world F-105D pilot. Wouldn't you remember being able to see the wings if you're supposed to check your control surface deflection, more specifically your aileron deflection before taxiing out? Crew chief or no crew chief, a pilot always checks for himself.

Yes, he sure should if he can.
:ernae:

[Paul Domingue]

No, I meant a real world F-105D pilot. Wouldn't you remember being able to see the wings if you're supposed to check your control surface deflection, more specifically your aileron deflection before taxiing out? Crew chief or no crew chief, a pilot always checks for himself.

No. In the real world there is a man on the ground and the pilot watches him. Through hand signals he directs the pilot to activate control surfaces, speed brake, tail hook, etc. a lot of things the pilot cant see. The pilot never takes his eyes off the man outside his cockpit and gets the OK on systems and a good to go from him/her. This person is the only link the pilot has to anything unexpected happening outside his aircraft that could become a hazard. There is a special name for the person who does the preflight check in the navy but I forgot what it is.

[Warhawk1130]

No. In the real world there is a man on the ground and the pilot watches him. Through hand signals he directs the pilot to activate control surfaces, speed brake, tail hook, etc. a lot of things the pilot cant see. The pilot never takes his eyes off the man outside his cockpit and gets the OK on systems and a good to go from him/her. This person is the only link the pilot has to anything unexpected happening outside his aircraft that could become a hazard. There is a special name for the person who does the preflight check in the navy but I forgot what it is.

As a real life former A-7 plane captain I can confirm pauls statement LOL

[Paul Domingue]

As a real life former A-7 plane captain I can confirm pauls statement LOL

That's it! Plane Captain. Then this should be familiar to you.

Attachment 85707

[Bone]

You can see the wing from the cockpit of a single place D (bud anderson)

the above is from an email i recieved from Bud Anderson concerning this issue,i decided id email him ask him what he can remember seeing from his cockpit when he flew the F-105D over Vietnam.i did not include the entire email as the rest is personal.

Dave

Thank you for checking with your friend Bud Anderson, Dave!

In any case maybe you can help the next Thud project get it right?
:ernae:

I think it will, HOWEVER, a better F-105 model has not been the point of my two recent threads. I just used the F-105 as a vehicle to state my case on seeing exterior structures from the VC. Structures that many Dev's say you can't see IRL, but in fact you can.

I'm sure you're not the only person around here who has held back their words. Thanks, but it would have been ok for you to vent a little. I know I've angered many people with this. I just hammered many peoples long term belief about something.


I choose my battles, regardless of what it may seem, and out of all the false perceptions I've counted around the sim world over the years, it was time to settle this once and for all. Simply because it still has a negative effect on how models are built to this day. Although, it most likely won't really do much good. I've proved that I can offer proof, and it still gets poo poo'd.


As much as I like simming, I think it's time for me to exit stage left.

[Daveroo]

the top pic was a F-105F according to Bud...

shame that it seems yet another good soh'r has left..

[Warhawk1130]

That's it! Plane Captain. Then this should be familiar to you.

Attachment 85707

That is the back of a flight deck cranial...green indicates squadron maintenance, white with black checkers indicates troublesooters. However, this is recent navy, not my old navy...AM's were broken down into 3 rates..AMH AMS AME...1M is foreign to me, plus the white against the green...new to me.

[Bone]

About two years ago I asked the guy who made the ALS-SIM SU-27 if he would consider putting wings in the VC mdl. He said no, you couldn't see them in real life. The list goes on, but not Bone. Goodbye, and good luck to all of you! Cheers.

[MenendezDiego]

I can deff. see them in the DCS Su-27

[Paul Domingue]

This is what you can see in the VC of my Su-37 without TrackIR.

Attachment 85780

[Paul Domingue]

That is the back of a flight deck cranial...green indicates squadron maintenance, white with black checkers indicates troublesooters. However, this is recent navy, not my old navy...AM's were broken down into 3 rates..AMH AMS AME...1M is foreign to me, plus the white against the green...new to me.

This is my sons and it had a split at one of the snaps. Knowing how proud of him I am, he asked if I wanted it. As he informed me the checkerboard pattern represents launch capable and the 1M I'm not sure of but I'll ask him. He is going out for two weeks while his squadron goes through CQ.

[Flyboy208]

Paul, the "1" should represent the last number in the Squadron designation, an example would be VF-101, the "M" should represent the "maintenance" department in such a USN/USMC squadron .... Mike :salute: