You're quite correct Henrik. The pipes are safety and utility systems.
- Fire (water) and foam pipes
- Inert gas supply to "blanket" the top of the tanks
- What they call "Crude oil washing" pipes. Some oil is bled off the delivery lines to be "sprayed" under pressure on the tank walls as they are emptied and "wash" the sticky oil down. The same pipes can be fed with water when the tanks will need to be deeply washed for maintenance.
Don't they keep the flammable liquid tanks, IE aircraft fuel and so on, constantly topped with inert gas? Or is it only during flight ops? I don't remember...- Inert gas supply to "blanket" the top of the tanks
Just curious.
Pat☺
Fly Free, always!
Sgt of Marines
USMC, 10 years proud service.
Inactive now...
I was actually referring to the large crude oil tanker. Inert gas is always used in oil cargo tanks, and I'm sure it is used also in warships, especially in low flash point fuels.
Some warships (I mean all the ones I've been on) use sea water for the main fuel tanks which prevents vapour build up and handily keeps the centre of gravity, and hence stability, more or less the same. There are a series of separators to make sure fuel and water then go to the right place!Originally Posted by Dimus
I'm oddly not sure what they do for the AVCAT tanks though so you may be correct about that part.
Fuel tank inertion for larger aircraft is required by the FAA since 2016 or 2017 or so.
I thought so. Didn't that come out of that 747 that crashed near a Navy boat doing excersizes a while back? Lots of talk about a misguided missile, or a major cover-up, and so on.
I was thinking about the military boats, but thanks for the info about the planes. I do appreciate it.
I wonder if military planes have the fuel tank inertion required as well. Not necessarily the big transporters, like the C-17, which I would think is a given, but the fast-movers. Fighters, S-3's COD's, things like that. I've never noticed anything in a NATOPS about it, but I wasn't looking for it, either. I'll have to do some research...
Hmmm...
Pat☺
Sgt of Marines
USMC, 10 years proud service.
Inactive now...
"A while back." That was 1996!
Hey, last century is a "while back"
Doesn't SEEM like that long ago, does it? Still, 22 years is a "while" in my pea-brain. Heck, lunch time tomorrow is a "while" from now for me...
Pat☺
Sgt of Marines
USMC, 10 years proud service.
Inactive now...
putting water in a fuel tank is huge risk, if your oily water separator fails, your pretty much F#@ked, it has to be at least sea state 6 and above before even think that would be an option, ive served on patrol boats about 50m long we wont even do that due to risk we just punch on spewing out guts up until it flattens out or go down sea and find a place to hide until it abaits, the FFGs ive been on also wont do due to the gas turbines.
the past 10 yrs its now international law that all tankers are to be double hulled to prevent spillage during a collision or grounding, after spending a few yrs on a naval tanker, the voids in between the hulls are used to stability, all tankers have breather tubes to each tank to avoid the build up of gas during tank expansion due to environment heating, or Liquid Gas carriers, while the gas is compressed into a liquid it remains cold and there are no natural vents, they only fitted with emergency vents and some of them the vents are below the water line
from past 23 yrs in the job and experiences as from Boarding/inspection teams
- combustible tankers ie diesel/ avgas and bulk crude have natural vents and you can smoke up to 7-5m away from the vents
- flammable tankers ir gas or refined petrol have emergency venting, and these ships have a smoking room internal of the ship
- Bulk grain have natural venting but also have a mist system in the hold ( I hate grain ships as the risk of explosion is 1000s of times greater than a gas or fuel tanker its always in the back of your mind if you need to discharge your weapons how close you are to a vent and how much a bigger bang you will cause to ruin your and everyone else's day)
again by international law any vessel that carries a pollutant are required to be doubled hulled, besides the standard stability/ballast tanks, the void between the hulls are used for additional stability, Ive search 100s of tankers over the years in the Arabian gulf or the gulf of Oman or my neighbourhood,, I havent seen any ships that fill fuel tanks with sea water, just the thought of doing that and having your water separator failing, will cost millions in contaminated fuel, the main purpose of each tanks water separator is to remove water in the fuel form condensation, but to have something several 800cz plus tanks deliberately filled water isnt a smart move
plus modern ships have some of the best motion control systems fitted where you wouldnt even know its rough outside unlike 20yrs ago where they made very little difference
Jeansy, it seems that in many terms we are in a similar line of work. I work for a Class Society, even though I rarely survey ships these days. All things you said on cargo ships are correct. I was also surprised to hear that water is put into fuel tanks. This is a big no-no in commercial vessels, although warships are a different breed.
Stay safe when you're out there.
cheers buddy, im now behind a desk writing policy so a very dull change in work in comparison to what i used do, anyway it was time to get both the shoulders reconstructed again, hopefully by the end of the yr im back out doing what i normally do
the only difference with Naval ships is they are built with more watertight compartments, and have backup life-support systems in which i mean redundancies for the combat, damage control and propulsion systems, the old days of armour plating and all the other crap you hear or see on docos or classic war movies no longer exist
the design of a warship is based on combat and survivability, things like crew living spaces and minor details like that are the last thing designed, unlike civil ships its cargo and propulsion come first in the design process
besides combat, damage control and propulsion systems the next major system which could bring a warship to a grinding halt or return to port is the soft serve ice cream machine, if you loose the ice cream machine moral vanishes quicker than when you loose the air con units
French, british or norwegian-german?
LOL! Bjoern, you know your classes.
The French one. Although I used to work for the US one for 8 years before 2005.
Certainly the Type 22 and Type 42 definitely used sea water compensation, I remember helping take a fuel/water separator apart on the former as well as having to learn all the details for my fleet board. I'm not as certain about the Type 23 as I didn't spend a lot of time in the engine spaces. Never been on a Type 45 so don't know what they do. Although in retrospect that's the only one that isn't a 30+ year old design...
My father has been working for the now norwegian-german one since 1990, so yeah, I know most of 'em.
Hey, the ice-cream systems are a vital life-support feature. Absolutely critical. Without Ice-cream, how can the crew function at all?? Air Con is one thing, but Ice-Cream...sheesh, that's like the oxygen systems in military aircraft. No way for the crew to function without it.besides combat, damage control and propulsion systems the next major system which could bring a warship to a grinding halt or return to port is the soft serve ice cream machine, if you loose the ice cream machine moral vanishes quicker than when you loose the air con units
And the funny thing is, it's been like that since at least WWII. Read some stories about the Marines in the Pacific. A great deal of effort and time was spent on either trying to get ahold of ice-cream, or Navy females.
You must keep your priorities straight, after all...
Pat☺
Sgt of Marines
USMC, 10 years proud service.
Inactive now...
Maybe an ice-cream machine could also speed up the project... The Olympic Leopard is almost ready, but I still have to study the pipes at the origen of the discussions this weekHey, the ice-cream systems are a vital life-support feature. Absolutely critical. Without Ice-cream, how can the crew function at all?? Air Con is one thing, but Ice-Cream...sheesh, that's like the oxygen systems in military aircraft. No way for the crew to function without it.
And the funny thing is, it's been like that since at least WWII. Read some stories about the Marines in the Pacific. A great deal of effort and time was spent on either trying to get ahold of ice-cream, or Navy females.
You must keep your priorities straight, after all...
Pat☺
Welcome to Roatan... Or how not enter harbor with a 65.000 tons cruise ship:
For those who wants to recreate the scene in the Sim, the sistership to MSC Armonia, the MSC Simfonia, is included in the Global AI Ship Traffic
Now both before and after conversion are ready:
Really nice Henrik!!!
One detail that is not visible in your screenshot: The "Olympics" are flying the Greek flag now.
Edit: Just saw your previous one and you have it right!
Thanks again for doing these. They are special to me and really great to have them in the sim.
You will get a prerelease - I just need to get back to Europe first - My drobbox doesn't want to synchronize here in China even when on VPN.Really nice Henrik!!!
One detail that is not visible in your screenshot: The "Olympics" are flying the Greek flag now.
Edit: Just saw your previous one and you have it right!
Thanks again for doing these. They are special to me and really great to have them in the sim.
I'll be in Shanghai Tuesday evening until Friday. Any chance you'll be there?
I actually think I will arrive to Shanghai Tuesday evening - but it is not confirmed yet - I have to go to Chengdu Wednesday, so it will be short, but I'm scheduling interview for Wednesday in Shanghai - I will send you a PM tomorrow.
Another bunch of models getting ready....
Henrik, your shipyard's production capacity, rate of delivery and diversification is unique!
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