How Many Flight-Simmers World Wide?

[Mach3DS]

Just curious, doing a little thinking...what's a reasonable number of FS9/FSX users world wide right now? Any good educated guesses out there? With all the recent activity it might be good for us to know how small/strong are ranks really are...

[trucker17]

Just curious, doing a little thinking...what's a reasonable number of FS9/FSX users world wide right now? Any good educated guesses out there? With all the recent activity it might be good for us to know how small/strong are ranks really are...

I think it would be safe to say world wide, that the number could be hundreds of thousands, if not more.....

[Mach3DS]

I think the only way to really know the answer would be to know how many copies of FS9/FSX were sold. My guess is that after 20+ years the fan base is in the 250,000 range. Also, this is prime time for developers, since all the teenagers from back in the day are now grown and in their 30s/40's with heaftier disposable incomes...if they were/are still flying. Any other thoughts?

[TheGrunt]

I don't know many copies of FS9 was sold, but for FSX in its first full year sales were 280000 copies (2007). FSX also broke in the top 10 in 2006, so it is possibly over 100000 copies in the first months. Because most of the sales happen in the beginning of the life cycle and FSX haven't made into any statistics later on, it is impossible to say how many copies were sold during the later years. I've seen estimations of 1 million total copies which may be quite accurate.

Then there is the question how many are actually active. It is pretty much safe to say that most copies just lay in the shelves with other older titles. I think it is low hundreds of thousands at maximum, most likely less. Enthusiasts spending considerable amounts of money to addons are probably few tens of thousands.

[Francois]

If I'd had 10.000 customers for any of my products, I could continue to develop them way into my retirement.....

[Sascha66]

Well, Avsim has 113,465 members. I assume not everyone is a member at Avsim so there are likely to be more!

[TuFun]

Here's some sale figures for 2012/2013 for FS2004/FSX...

Attachment 92316Attachment 92317

Last months...

Attachment 92318Attachment 92319

[greenie]

We have a few numbers there but in reality it is still hard to tell . How many people have bought it twice or more . A new machine requires a new fsx . I've bought more than one .

[SkippyBing]

A new machine requires a new fsx .

It shouldn't, I've only got the one copy and installed it on various machines over the years as I've upgradeded. You do occasionally have to phone the activation line to reset things but it's no biggy.

I'd agree those numbers aren't much use as they only cover a few years of sales out of almost a decade.

[heywooood]

How many Flight Simmers Worldwide?

7 total

the rest are rivet counters and FM critics....

[Francois]

. A new machine requires a new fsx . I've bought more than one .

Sorry, NOT true that !

[Francois]

How many Flight Simmers Worldwide?

7 total

the rest are rivet counters and FM critics....

[Francois]

The numbers that buzzed around for FS2004 total were 2 MILLION. Never confirmed, but where there is smoke....... FSX initially did (a lot) worse compared to that total figure and that was the ultimate reason for the MS beancounters to send the team and the product into oblivion.

Basically MS has NEVER confirmed ANY number, so any number you see fro whatever source is 'guesstimate' at best. Personally, I think there are a couple 10's of thousands core simmers around the world left.....

[Naismith]

I cannot find the recent link to the poll begging MS to reconsider a new sim, but I recall the numbers weren't exactly stellar in signing it. Perhaps the question given the age of FSX, FS9 & CFS series, should be how many hard core users are still active worldwide.

[FentiFlier1]

In my opinion, two million sounds closer to the truth than just a few hundred thousand!

I'm not sure if sales figures provides a good measure even for guesswork - not everyone buys their software...

And as for forum memberships, well I flight simmed for at least two years without being part of a forum. I mainly joined here to thank and encourage freeware devs.

Owen.

[kilo delta]

I bought 2 copies...the original FSX Deluxe along with the Acceleration addon which was released some time later. I then picked up a copy of FSX Gold.
At the time of it's release I was working for a well known gaming PC manufacturer and as FSX was one of the first DX10 game titles to be released, several copies were purchased by the company in order to test out the DX10 GFX cards on the new ,top of the line, computer systems. Funny to think that I was once paid to fly FSX on bleeding edge computer technology!

[TheGrunt]

And as for forum memberships, well I flight simmed for at least two years without being part of a forum. I mainly joined here to thank and encourage freeware devs.

Owen.

True, but it is pretty much safe to say, like I said, that most of those who have during the years purchased or even pirated the software and are actually using the software actively even today. Of those who do, just some percentage of those are active enthusiast simmers, who spend significantly money to addons and simming hardware.

All in all, whether FSX has sold one or two million copies is quite irrelevant. Figures are really low compared to bigger AAA titles. Halo series reached around 50 millions copies sold late last year and figure has gone up from that considerably. Latest Halo 4 has sold around 8.5 million copies to this day since its release in the beginning of November 2012, in a timespan around 10 months. So, MS ditching the FS series was pretty much an ecnomical decision. I would think that developement costs are quite high and I wouldn't be surprised if FSX has barely reached break-even yet.

IMO Flight was quite bold attempt to draw wider audiences to flightsimming. It was more of an experiment and it failed, because it showed that the approach chosen proved that the concept was too boring for average gamer and offered too little for simulator enthusiast. If MS would've allowed third party developement even though letting distribution of 3PD addons only through only their own store thus creating revenue from 3PD sales, it would have possibly fared better with the enthusiasts. Flight was a failure, which probably keeps MS out of the sim business for the forseeable future. One interesting point for MS's decisions considering Flight that hasn't been discussed that much is the failure to capitalize on professional market with their ESP (which now effectively is in LM hands). Now, there are only few studios developing serious sims today and if you look two of them, both Eagle Dynamics (DCS series) and Laminar Research (XP) have businesses for professional market. DCS is actually a spin-off of training simulators. I have no clue how much revenue those companies gather from professional market, but it may be that it is quite vital for them to carry on with the consumer "game" developement at the same time. After ED and LR, this leaves us pretty much with 777 studios with Rise of Flight, which is also pretty much the only serious sim product aimed at completely for consumer simulation market. After the apparent failure with Battle of Britain and Oleg's departure from 1C games and flight simulator industry all together, also the story of the IL-2 series is pretty much done and the next "heir" to the IL-2 series is a co-operation product with 777 Studios using RoF based engine. So, there seems to be quite small space for the consumer flight simulator market to make it a decent business, if we assume that professional market is important for Eagle Dynamics and Laminar. If there would be potential for the sales for millions of copies, like it is with the many AAA gaming titles, we would have much more offering with the sims. That's how the market works and even though we have good and active community with FSX/FS9 and XP, we are still quite a small bunch among the other gamers out there.

[Francois]

s and even though we have good and active community with FSX/FS9 and XP, we are still quite a small bunch among the other gamers out there.

.... we always have and always will be.... in spite of all semi-pro additions such as full-blown cockpits and other efforts aimed at the more professional markets (like ESP), FS will remain a niche hobby market for many years to come and it will never compete in the gamer's markets.

[txnetcop]

.... we always have and always will be.... in spite of all semi-pro additions such as full-blown cockpits and other efforts aimed at the more professional markets (like ESP), FS will remain a niche hobby market for many years to come and it will never compete in the gamer's markets.

YEP THE LAST TWO POST NAILED IT! THAT DOESN'T STOP US FROM ENJOYING WHAT WE HAVE.
Ted

[fxsttcb]

Out of the 10-12 friends/family that I know use FS9/FSX regularly, I'm the only one that is a member of any FS related forums.

FlightSim.Com Statistics...Members; 520,706...Active Members; 117,642
Currently 1986 users online, 711 members and 1275 guests

Just using one site, and IF; my friends/family ratio to me, are representative, statistically:
Well over a million active users, and untold millions(guests?) of casual users.

No demand? Bull. There was enough demand for FSX that MS completed a second production run of it in Spring 2010 when retailers shelves ran dry.
I sincerely doubt that MS would have even considered the second run if they, and their retailers, didn't deem it profitable.
Even when they closed ACES, they stated that the closure was not related to it's profitability.

Too bad we don't know what the actual production numbers were...Don

[Sascha66]

O

FlightSim.Com Statistics...Members; 520,706...Active Members; 117,642
Currently 1986 users online, 711 members and 1275 guests

That is a lot! I didn't know flightsim was so much bigger than avsim. I am registered with both but mainly use avsim as I find it is more comfortable for forums and files.

Of course I hang out here most of the time anyway
Sascha

[greenie]

Sorry, NOT true that !

Damn !...I've been ripping myself off !!...the good news is - I've done it for the last time ..

[Francois]

Unfortunately from experience I know that all these web statistics are terribly skewed..... I know we did a 'cleaning' once at one of these web forums mentioned above and we had some 6000 real active members left..... from the 114.000 odd listed. You would be surprised how much dead wood is in all these stats... not to mention the fact that most don't even count correctly. DAMHIK. :isadizzy:

[beana51]

The better question may be is What Is The Average Age Of a Flight Simmer?...Is there any indication the young are getting into Simming? ..Flight Simming that is...most of us have been around from the beginning...That makes most Old Geezeers...Those who gave us Flight Simming have now abandoned us. After the Golden Age of FS9, and Attempt at FSX, then nothing more is or has happened....While SOH seems to be the place to be,other sites are not fairing well. Hard core Simmers will be around .However ,its the young people that it needs to continue..That Catatalyst is always New Products,New Sims,More Creativity. Microsoft today does not promise anything.NVIDA? totally dedicated to the "GAME world. I always have my kids,grand kids,and Yea Great grand kids "PLAY" with my sim...They look it,but their attention factor is fleeting..To new Popular Games ...Always New popular Games.
My generation dreamed of Flying..There was not a Kid who did not Get his Moms Broom handle,an uncles old flying helmet and goggles,on his dads swiviel chair, and FLY,in the magic of a Kids Brain..Making God Awful Sounds trying to imitate a Radiel Engine....Then A Miracle Happened..desk Top Flight..For many? It was the Greatest Thing Ever...To more many?..A I Seen that, been There, Show me more.And that Market is growing.......Simming will always be appealing,However it needs Greater interest,more inovative technolgy, that will bring the other generation into its folds.

[TheGrunt]

Too bad we don't know what the actual production numbers were...Don

Maximum value can be estimated, though. If FSX confirmed sales for 2007, first full year, were 280000 copies. Add those copies sold in 2006, most likely 100k or little more, and if we assume that FSX would somehow keep 2007 sales figures throughout the following years, we would arrive to the total around 2,1 million. It is quite unlikely that FSX would sell with 2007 figures during all the time, so total is most likely significantly less than two million and thus 1 million copies sounds quite reasonable.

And taking second print doesn't tell anything else about the sales figures than that MS took cautiously how many copies they were going to sell. Also remember, at the time of the release of the FSX, they were most likely still planning FS11 some years later and first print was most likely planned according to that. In 2010 when second print came out Aces was closed, the future of FS franchise was clear and Flight would take still some time arrive. All this continued the shelf life of FSX considerably from the planned and as print out is quite small investment compared to dev costs and there was still demand, so why not? Second print is not a guarantee of impressive sales figures, only that MS didn't have any alternatives or FSX successor to offer.

To me shutting down Aces and whole MS FS franchise can't be related to anything else than money, although someone at MS claims otherwise. MS is a corporation which main purpose is to be profitable and make owners more wealthier. If FSX or future versions of the series would be a goose laying golden eggs for MS, why on earth would they kill it? Answer is really simple if you just look at the Halo sales figures I posted: 8.5 million copies in 10 months vs 1-2 million copies in 7 years and latter option most likely more expensive to develop. As a simmer I'd like to say otherwise, but from purely business stand point of view, in a large corporation whose business relies on volumes, it would be quite foolish to put resources in the latter option. Smaller dedicated dev teams, which can make enough money for themselves from the niche market, are better suited for that. In that sense, there really is not enough demand for MS to stay in this business. There is still enough for small studios like 777, Laminar and Eagle Dynamics to make a living. If there would ne big demand, we would have sims popping out like FPS games and topping the charts. Nothing prohibits game studios from developing sims, but the truth is that it is all about rules of free market: demand and supply, and other game type alternatives have far better chances to be more profitable that is, there is better demand.