Texturing

[stuart277]

Hi All
I have been making my first attempt at texturing a GMax model, in this case a ship model for CFS2.
Not really knowing what to do, I have read a few tutorials from the net, but I am stuck.
Using PSP 7, I have made a 1024 x 1024 TGA file with an alpha channel that will allow the girders to be 'see through'.
I have attached an image of this file as a j-peg that has been resized to 512 x 512 for uploading purposes.
I have also managed to place a texture from the TGA file on the flight deck of the carrier, as can be seen in the second picture (from GMax)
Unfortunately, when exported it does not show up as textured in CFS2.
The TGA file is is in the ships texture folder.
Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers
StuartAttachment 87186Attachment 87187

[UncleTgt]

Hi Stuart,

First of all well done with the modelling!

CFS2 will only read extended 16 bit bmp files. You'll need to modify the tga file format so CFS 2 can "see" it. Get yourself Martin Wright's dxtbmp program.
Open the tga file in the ship texture folder & then use the "save as" command to save into:

solid textures: 565bmps (no mips), or DXT1 (no alpha) - DXT compression can lead to fuzziness & bleeding of details at distance, but sometimes it what works best.

textures with an alpha channel
single black alpha (completely transparent): 555-1 bmp (no mips), or DXT1 with alpha
shaded alpha (partly transparent): DXT3 with alpha (graded grey), prop bmps are mostly 444-4bmp formats

I find it easiest to create separate #_base & #_trans bitmaps in PSP, then load into DXTbmp to save in the format required to get them to show in game.

Hope this helps

[gaucho_59]

Hi Stuart,

First of all well done with the modelling!

CFS2 will only read extended 16 bit bmp files. You'll need to modify the tga file format so CFS 2 can "see" it. Get yourself Martin Wright's dxtbmp program.
Open the tga file in the ship texture folder & then use the "save as" command to save into:

solid textures: 565bmps (no mips), or DXT1 (no alpha) - DXT compression can lead to fuzziness & bleeding of details at distance, but sometimes it what works best.

textures with an alpha channel
single black alpha (completely transparent): 555-1 bmp (no mips), or DXT1 with alpha
shaded alpha (partly transparent): DXT3 with alpha (graded grey), prop bmps are mostly 444-4bmp formats

I find it easiest to create separate #_base & #_trans bitmaps in PSP, then load into DXTbmp to save in the format required to get them to show in game.

Hope this helps

Very fine modeling!!!
One little thing... if possible, make the textures large enough to give room for detailing and repainting... very simple renditions can be turned into
excellent more or less realistic replicas depending on the talents of the repainters [see my rendition of the Bismarck profile on my Storch thread]


The actual profile size is in PSP 800 dpi 3000 x 2000 - as you can see there still some detail even in this very small jpg

[stuart277]

Hi UncleTgt and Gaucho_59
Thank you both for the replies and the encouragment.

The model is only started but I thought that, as it will have a lot of cloned parts, it might be best to texture them before cloning.
UncleTgt, I have Martin Wright's dxtbmp program, but I do not seem to have options to save in any of those formats. I have version 4.00.96.
I can preview the image in DXT, 555 etc and they a number of resized have mipmaps.
I can only 'save as':
DDS texture
Extended Bitmap
Targa with Alpha
24 Bit BMP Image
ACE DXT1 Texture
Creative Assembly Texture
Infinity Ward Image
I am not sure what you mean by creating separate #_base & #_trans bitmaps in PSP, but I guess you mean two separate bitmaps, one without the girders (which have transparencies) and one with only the girders (and the transparencies). When you say bitmap, do you mean .bmp files? In PSP 7 I cannot save to alpha channels as .bmp files.

Gaucho_59, I am probably misunderstanding this, but I thought that the texture file could not be larger than 1024 x 1024?

Thanks again.
I am clearly out of my depth with this one.
CheersS
Syuart

[UncleTgt]

Hi Stuart,

You are almost there. Choose file save as/ extended bitmap. When you get to the save pop up, you can select which type of extended btmap you'd like to choose (see pics)

To make using dxtbmp easy (I also work in PSP) I save a copy of my PSP file as "filename_base.bmp" format, which is the PSP file without alphas. Using PSP I put a white layer underneath my transparency work (as background), & save a copy of transparencies over white as my "filename_trans.bmp".

Using DXTbmp I open my "filename_base.bmp", & import my "filename_trans.bmp" as alpha (top right hand corner of the dxtbmp window). You can preview how it will look by choosing preview/transparency, just to check before you save as an extended bitmap. Use different folders to keep everything from overwriting stuff you may want to change, & you can experiment until you get the look you are happy with.

[UncleTgt]

I took your Kaga template & used PSPS to generate the "kaga_trans" alpha channel to illustrate more clearly what I mean. Pure white is 100% solid, pure black is 100% transparent.

Hope this helps.

[stuart277]

Thanks UncleTgt
Just 'one more click' and I now have the TGA file saved as a 555-1 as well as DXT1 and DXT1 (no alpha).
I thought I would test all 3.
Unfortunately, when I open the Gmax Material Navigator, the images of the files only appear as 'little MS Windows Symbols', whereas all other images show a picture.
When I try to move the image to the GMax material Editor, nothing happens.
Stumped again.
Cheers
Stuart

[UncleTgt]

OK Stuart,

Use the tga for mapping & positioning in G-MAX, just replace the tga with a bitmap of the same name (in the correct format) when you create the texture folder to use in game

[UncleTgt]

btw - I've never done texture mapping in G-Max before, so the Aoba & Kako might take me a while!

[stuart277]

Bingo
I wiil check out which format works best. 555-1 looks a little blurry.
I've just quickly written this to thank you for your help.
Cheers
Stuart

[gaucho_59]

Hi UncleTgt and Gaucho_59
Thank you both for the replies and the encouragment.

The model is only started but I thought that, as it will have a lot of cloned parts, it might be best to texture them before cloning.
UncleTgt, I have Martin Wright's dxtbmp program, but I do not seem to have options to save in any of those formats. I have version 4.00.96.
I can preview the image in DXT, 555 etc and they a number of resized have mipmaps.
I can only 'save as':
DDS texture
Extended Bitmap
Targa with Alpha
24 Bit BMP Image
ACE DXT1 Texture
Creative Assembly Texture
Infinity Ward Image
I am not sure what you mean by creating separate #_base & #_trans bitmaps in PSP, but I guess you mean two separate bitmaps, one without the girders (which have transparencies) and one with only the girders (and the transparencies). When you say bitmap, do you mean .bmp files? In PSP 7 I cannot save to alpha channels as .bmp files.

Gaucho_59, I am probably misunderstanding this, but I thought that the texture file could not be larger than 1024 x 1024?

Thanks again.
I am clearly out of my depth with this one.
CheersS
Syuart

The profile is very large and at such high DPI because it is intended to print for eventual commercial use.
The one you see is even smaller than 1024... I just showed it to demonstrate that one can get a discernibly
nitid enough picture at smaller sizes (i.e. texturing and thereby more believable looks in a sim). Of course,
at 1024 X it would show to advantage.... ergo.. the reason for my comment of doing large enough textures
to give repainters some leeway in detailing.

[Blood_Hawk23]

i'm not sure if this was mentioned or not. you can use a .bmp saved as a 256 in GMax. use that for your mapping then use your better dxt or 565 for the texture in CFS2.

[Allen]

You can use basic bitmaps in gMax just fine. Make your textue in PSP 7 and save it as Windows OS/2 bitmaps (*.bmp)

gMax can NOT read most extended bitmaps and extended bitmaps must be used in CFS2 or the texute will not work. (exclude old CFS1 and FS98 aircraft. CFS1 and FS98 objects.)

Extended bitmap fromats
DTX1
DTX1 (no alpha)
DTX3
DTX5 *Dosn't work in CFS2*
16 bit 444-4
16 bit 555-1
16 bit 565
32 bit 888-8

If you try to load one of the listed extended bitmaps in gMax you will get an "Unsppported BMP Image File" error.

[stuart277]

Hi all
Thanks for the replies.
I seem to have it working. I have used a 1024 x 1024 TGA file made using PSP in GMax to do the texturing.
I then use Martin Wrights program to save the same file as a DXT1 (no alpha) file in the texture file of the model.
At the moment I am working on that idea of having a separate TGA file for 'transparent' girders etc. and saving that as a DXT1 (or 555-1).
The flight deck on the Kaga looks slightly 'blurry' in the game, when a plane is on the flightdeck. It is probably something to do with the settings in GMax, but I am not sure of how to deal with it.
I should have a V and W Class Destroyer finished with some basic texturing this week. The Kaga is a bit more detailed, so it will take a while.
The modelling aspect is not too difficult, once you get the hang of it, but texturing is something else.
Hats off to the people who have done the texturing of the excellent models available.:salute:
(DP files look pretty tricky as well, I will deal with those some time in the near future)
Cheers
Stuart

[Allen]

I would try saving in DTX3. DTX3 will let you save with an alpha layer as well.

[Blood_Hawk23]

let me know if you need anythingin regards to the DP.

You know you can make an alpha channel with MW's DXTBmp. its not to diffecult. you can even send it to be edited in PSP then save and reupload it to DXTBmp.

[stuart277]

Hi All
I'm on it.
Thanks guys.
I have a working model with an alpha part.
Attachment 87605
The alpha is the support for the searchlight. As you have suggested, a separate bitmap, was the go. (especially as my main bitmap has 'black' pixels and did that cause some funny results)
I did use DXT1, but I will follow your suggestions, Allen and use DXT3.
When I say a working model, the texturing is basic and the DP is from a mahan class destroyer.
I opened the DP editor for the first time today. Looks like another can of worms.
Thanks for the offer to do the DP John, I will email all the bits to you, once I tinker with the forward portholes (they look a bit too big, ok on a luxury liner, but not a warship)
By the way, the plane is a DH2, what an awesome piece of work by Gary Aumaugher. The rotary engine, rotates!!
Cheers
Stuart

[Blood_Hawk23]

That looks Great Stuart.

Though the Pup would be a better choice.

Gary did an excellent job on the models. Thats probly why I've stuck with WWI for so long.

[UncleTgt]

Stuart,

Great looking V/W. Can we have a WW2 version as well please?

[Blood_Hawk23]

Did they still have them in WWII?

If i do a second dp and add the WWII guns. if not then Stuart you'll need 2 versions.

[stuart277]

Hi All
Thanks again for the encouragement.
UncleTgt, no problem for me to do the WWII versions.
There were a lot of the V and W class ships in WWII, the RAN had the 'scrap iron flotilla'.
Without getting too detailed, there were, several types and I am quite happy to do all of them, but the textures will be basic. (textures are an art!)
It would be my pleasure to do:
- a standard WWII version, like the Australian Destroyers
- long range escorts, (less one funnel)
- short range escorts
+ any other suggestions! Please let me know of any that you request.
I should have enough info from the internet or the library to do the models.
I can add anti-sub gear, but that means more polygons???
I feel that I am getting my head around the GMax modelling, however, the dp files are a different matter, they will vary a great deal.
I have no experience with this.
Blood_hawk knows a lot about them, but I should learn how to do it myself.
Any hows, give me a list, an I will have a go.
Cheers
Stuart

PS As I understand, Memorial Day in the USA is this weekend. All countries have their 'memorial day'.
I sincerely would like to thanks all the serviceman who have helped make my world as safe for us as it is.

[Blood_Hawk23]

If you want i can do a walkthrough on the DPed. its not hard. but we can save that for the CFS2 board. I'm starting to figure out the texture mapping. its tricky. though well worth the effort.