F1 2013: Malaysian GP; can Kimi do it again?

[Ferry_vO]

Another interesting and partially wet qualifying session today, with Vettel on pole almost a second ahead of Felipe Massa who seems to have found his talent again!
Rain started at the end of Q2, which meant both Maldonado and Di Resta stranded due to poor timing. More rain in Q3 with a slwly drying track at the end.

Pos	No	Driver	Team	Q1	Q2	Q3	Laps
1	1	Sebastian Vettel	Red Bull Racing-Renault	1:37.899	1:37.245	1:49.674	13
2	4	Felipe Massa	Ferrari	1:37.712	1:36.874	1:50.587	15
3	3	Fernando Alonso	Ferrari	1:37.314	1:36.877	1:50.727	14
4	10	Lewis Hamilton	Mercedes	1:37.513	1:36.517	1:51.699	15
5	2	Mark Webber	Red Bull Racing-Renault	1:37.619	1:36.449	1:52.244	14
6	9	Nico Rosberg	Mercedes	1:37.239	1:36.190	1:52.519	14
7	7	Kimi Räikkönen	Lotus-Renault	1:36.959	1:36.640	1:52.970	12
8	5	Jenson Button	McLaren-Mercedes	1:37.487	1:37.117	1:53.175	14
9	15	Adrian Sutil	Force India-Mercedes	1:36.809	1:36.834	1:53.439	12
10	6	Sergio Perez	McLaren-Mercedes	1:37.702	1:37.342	1:54.136	16
11	8	Romain Grosjean	Lotus-Renault	1:37.363	1:37.636		7
12	11	Nico Hulkenberg	Sauber-Ferrari	1:37.931	1:38.125		12
13	19	Daniel Ricciardo	STR-Ferrari	1:37.722	1:38.822		12
14	12	Esteban Gutierrez	Sauber-Ferrari	1:37.707	1:39.221		14
15	14	Paul di Resta	Force India-Mercedes	1:37.493	1:44.509		10
16	16	Pastor Maldonado	Williams-Renault	1:37.867	No time		10
17	18	Jean-Eric Vergne	STR-Ferrari	1:38.157			8
18	17	Valtteri Bottas	Williams-Renault	1:38.207			7
19	22	Jules Bianchi	Marussia-Cosworth	1:38.434			8
20	20	Charles Pic	Caterham-Renault	1:39.314			6
21	23	Max Chilton	Marussia-Cosworth	1:39.672			8
22	21	Giedo van der Garde	Caterham-Renault	1:39.932			6
		Q1 107% Time		1:43.585

[wombat666]

Alonso and the Iceman could do it, I'm doubting the RBR race pace but it all should come down to the weather.
Really pleased to see Sutil in good form so early in the year.
And we get to see it at a reasonable hour!

[Panther_99FS]

I know it's still early on....But it's looking more & more like Hamilton made the right move. **Could** we have another race where McLaren will be trying to fend off Force India (while Mercedes is ahead of them) ? - Or was Sergio a bit over-rated?

[Panther_99FS]

Very kind post race comments by Lewis towards Nico - not so good race actions by Vettel against Webber...

[Ferry_vO]

I know it's still early on....But it's looking more & more like Hamilton made the right move. **Could** we have another race where McLaren will be trying to fend off Force India (while Mercedes is ahead of them) ? - Or was Sergio a bit over-rated?

McLaren were quite surprised by the progress made by other teams like Mercedes and Force India, also Massa seems to be back where he was before his accident in Hungary.
Perez is a good driver IMHO, but he needs some time to adjust to his new car and team.

Very kind post race comments by Lewis towards Nico - not so good race actions by Vettel against Webber...

You don't become three-time champion if you don't always want to win, but breaking an internal agreement like that... I can understand Webber's frustrations!

Full results:

Pos	No	Driver	Team	Laps	Time/Retired	Grid	Pts
1	1	Sebastian Vettel	Red Bull Racing-Renault	56	1:38:56.681	1	25
2	2	Mark Webber	Red Bull Racing-Renault	56	+4.2 secs	5	18
3	10	Lewis Hamilton	Mercedes	56	+12.1 secs	4	15
4	9	Nico Rosberg	Mercedes	56	+12.6 secs	6	12
5	4	Felipe Massa	Ferrari	56	+25.6 secs	2	10
6	8	Romain Grosjean	Lotus-Renault	56	+35.5 secs	11	8
7	7	Kimi Räikkönen	Lotus-Renault	56	+48.4 secs	10	6
8	11	Nico Hulkenberg	Sauber-Ferrari	56	+53.0 secs	12	4
9	6	Sergio Perez	McLaren-Mercedes	56	+72.3 secs	9	2
10	18	Jean-Eric Vergne	STR-Ferrari	56	+87.1 secs	17	1
11	17	Valtteri Bottas	Williams-Renault	56	+88.6 secs	18
12	12	Esteban Gutierrez	Sauber-Ferrari	55	+1 Lap	14
13	22	Jules Bianchi	Marussia-Cosworth	55	+1 Lap	19
14	20	Charles Pic	Caterham-Renault	55	+1 Lap	20
15	21	Giedo van der Garde	Caterham-Renault	55	+1 Lap	22
16	23	Max Chilton	Marussia-Cosworth	54	+2 Laps	21
17	5	Jenson Button	McLaren-Mercedes	53	+3 Laps	7
18	19	Daniel Ricciardo	STR-Ferrari	51	+5 Laps	13
Ret	16	Pastor Maldonado	Williams-Renault	45	+11 Laps	16
Ret	15	Adrian Sutil	Force India-Mercedes	27	Wheel nut	8
Ret	14	Paul di Resta	Force India-Mercedes	22	Wheel nut	15
Ret	3	Fernando Alonso	Ferrari	1	Accident	3

[wombat666]

Not a good look all round for F1.
Vettel collecting a rather public telling off by Newey and Webber adding to the aggro by 'reminding' him of 'Setting 21' (or was it 'Position 21'?).
If he (Vettel) is needing any assistance this season he's not going to get any!

Hamilton was quite gracious toward Nico, but he could hardly have left anything unsaid.
Once again the spectre of the Pit Mafia deciding race results rears its ugly head, then again, we should be well used to it by now.
Good drive by Grosjean again, and Button was just plain SOL!
As for the wheel nut problem that ended BOTH Force India drivers day .......
Surely the continuing run of front wing incidents (including last years collection) should be enough for the FIA to rule out the ridiculously high nose mountings, or rather, just the high noses.
The number of tyres used was almost as silly, one 200 mile race and just about as much rubber used as the Bathurst 1000!

China should be 'interesting' .......

[lefty]

The only way to sort it is to take the radios out of the cars. Fangio never had one. With all this electronic control, the teams are basically driving the things from the pits anyway.....

But anyone who bets on these races must be very naive indeed.

[Panther_99FS]

McLaren were quite surprised by the progress made by other teams like Mercedes and Force India, also Massa seems to be back where he was before his accident in Hungary.

Well of course! Perhaps Lewis saw it coming in the 2013 car & not to mention the pit stop FUBAR that Button was struck with..(not unlike Lewis's bad pit stops last year)... :mixedsmi:

[Panther_99FS]

But anyone who bets on these races must be very naive indeed.

Good point! Tough betting on races with the way things went today!

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

I actually tuned in (from NCAA basketball) at about exactly the moment the team orders were handed out - disgusting. Why does this series continue to think that the constructor is what matters is beyond me. How can anybody think this series has any legitimacy? I bet orders are handed out every week. NASCAR is certainly more legitimate than F1.

-Ed-

[Panther_99FS]

Hey All,

I actually tuned in (from NCAA basketball) at about exactly the moment the team orders were handed out - disgusting. Why does this series continue to think that the constructor is what matters is beyond me. How can anybody think this series has any legitimacy? I bet orders are handed out every week. NASCAR is certainly more legitimate than F1.

-Ed-

Counter Point: Most professional team sports have some type of team orders - whether it's the coach on the sideline or the quarterback.....

[Ferry_vO]

Counter Point: Most professional team sports have some type of team orders - whether it's the coach on the sideline or the quarterback.....

Every team sport has team orders..

When you run an F1 team and spend 200+ million dollars for a season, the last thing you want is for your drivers to lose valuable points by running into each other.
Both drivers were told not to attack each other after the second series of pitstops; Webber was told to save the car (Less RPM's, lower fuel usage) but Vettel ignored the orders to save the car and position and passed Webber in a way that could have ended like Turkey 2010.

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Yes P there are orders but you know as well as I Rick Hendrick does NOT order Jeff Gordon to hold position and finish behind Jimmie Johnson. He will tell them not to wreck each other but beyond that - go race! He does take the chance on a potential wreck and that is the right thing to do.

F1 has no such honor.

Ferry were you the one that posted the cost of a NASCAR team ala the red bull team from a few years ago?

-Ed-

[Panther_99FS]

F1 has no such honor.
-Ed-

If you despise F1 so much, why do you continue watch it :ques:

[wombat666]

Hey All,

Yes P there are orders but you know as well as I Rick Hendrick does NOT order Jeff Gordon to hold position and finish behind Jimmie Johnson. He will tell them not to wreck each other but beyond that - go race! He does take the chance on a potential wreck and that is the right thing to do.

F1 has no such honor.

Ferry were you the one that posted the cost of a NASCAR team ala the red bull team from a few years ago?

-Ed-

And exactly how do you 'Know' this is true Ed???
Insider knowledge?
You a member of the Hendrick inner circle?
Or just clairvoyant??????

I'm with Lefty, ALL motor racing should be stripped of any form of 'Radio/Electronic' communications, drivers are supposed to 'drive', not be coached and babied around a circuit, be it road or oval.
It occurred to me (while I'm thinking of regulations) if a car has a fuel cell that holds the maximum fuel load allowed then it must start with that quantity, no more of this filling them up with just enough to get home provided there are a couple of safety car periods and the driver leans the mixture out.
Interesting that MotoGP and all forms of two wheeled racing can get by without any of that rubbish.
Formula 1 and NASCAR are as bad as one another, too much interference from the vested financial interests and the 'Management'.

[demorier]

I just hope that Vettel's ambition doesn't get himself or someone else seriously hurt or killed some day. Had to have a laugh at Hamilton pulling into the wrong pits for a tyre change.

[Jafo]

Every team sport has team orders..

When you run an F1 team and spend 200+ million dollars for a season, the last thing you want is for your drivers to lose valuable points by running into each other.
Both drivers were told not to attack each other after the second series of pitstops; Webber was told to save the car (Less RPM's, lower fuel usage) but Vettel ignored the orders to save the car and position and passed Webber in a way that could have ended like Turkey 2010.

I think you'll find F1 [and other forms of team motor racing] have always had 'team orders'.
The last thing a team/constructor wants is to have team mates taking out each other. It serves no good purpose.

It's really only the advent of 'overheard' radio comms to drivers that it's become publicly apparent.
Both Vettel and Hamilton suffer from the 'idiocy of youth' ...whether it's Hamilton doing burn-outs on a public road [St Kilda] or Vettel ONLY surviving his most recent stupidity thanks to the skills [level head] of his team mate. I can recall [in my F1 years] plenty of occasions when such 'close in-fighting' has ended in tears.

Webber was effectively robbed of a win as he was [until requested to back off] clearly better placed to win ahead of Vettel.

Most amusing 'team orders' I can recall was Dennis telling Senna to 'stay in the car' if it lit up....as at the time BCF extinguishers were being banned...and could only be used in 'life-threatening' situations ...and staying in the car made it such. BCF was the only extinguisher that didn't screw up an F1 engine and require a rebuild.

Hamilton boxing it in the wrong pit....he ain't the first...and won't be the last.

Radio comms to drivers is simply part of the advanced [leading] Formula of Motor Racing .... leading where other classes eventually follow. I imagine the yellow sector warnings onboard will also trickle down to lesser categories [and yes, Indy and Nascar are 'lesser', as is V8 Supercars] .... provided they [FIA] can get them damn useless light panels actually function properly. Hint...a 10 second delay lighting up a blue is more useless than tits on a bull. I think it must have been running on Vista.... we were constantly rebooting to reset them....;p

[wombat666]

I think you'll find F1 [and other forms of team motor racing] have always had 'team orders'.p

Not in the Ferrari days when the 'Old Man' ran the team with an iron fist.
If anything he enjoyed pitting drivers against one another.
He wasn't calling the shots when Pironi sneaked a 'win' from Villeneuve, and look how that turned out.
I'll admit to a great sense of satisfaction when Pironi took himself out later in the season at Hockenheim, what goes round comes round.
And really Jafo, were there 'Team Orders' at Williams for Jones and Reuteman or Piquet and Mansell???
None at MacLaren between Prost and Senna either.
And of course, NEVER been any in NASCAR if you believe EasyEd!

Back to Malaysia, only in Australia would this appear in under 24 hours post race!!!


Attachment 83646

[Jafo]

LOL re the add.

Ah...Peroni ....there's a blast-from-the-past.
'Met' him in 1980 at Calder....at a stewards' hearing following the celebrity race....can't recall whether my report got him a slap on the wrist...but I do remember his interpreter suggesting Didier didn't think it was a 'real race' [they were Commodores, I think]...

Jonesy won ...that famous Irishman Bruno Jack -O'malley came second...and Alfie I'm-going-to-the-pizza Costanzo came third...

[Jafo]

Some say I look like my avatar....
Here's me at 5.8 Albert Park.... that's 6 behind...

Attachment 83768

[Panther_99FS]

Totally hypothetical situation with no support:
If Webber leaves Red-Bull and Kimi replaces him, who "wins"....:isadizzy:

[Jafo]

I'd rather see Vettel kicked out of Red Bull for not being a team player...and end up team mate to Hamilton....

The impetuosity of youth from both sides....now THAT would be entertaining....[and probably fatal]....;p

[Panther_99FS]

Hmmm.....So all the rumors floating around, Webber says he has no intentions of leaving Red Bull. Question however is how long Kimi will be satisfied racing for Lotus :ques: