Simnetworks Piracy Complaint

[Mick]

As I mentioned in the Swingman's Duck thread, I've begun the process of making a DMCA piracy complaint against Simnetwork. I'm starting a new thread about this because the Duck thread is soon to be locked, if it hasn't been already.

For those who didn't follow the thread about the Duck, the short version is that the owner of Icarus Gold has been pressing bogus piracy complaints against Swingman's model of the J2F Duck, falsely claiming that it's a copy of the Icarus model. Simnetwork is owned and operated by the same person who owns and operates Icarus Gold, and Simnetwork is a notorious freeware pirate site. The complaint process follows the DMCA because the web host is located here in the US.

Out of curiosity I went to the Simnetworks site and a library search of my name brought up page after page of hits. I wrote to Simnetwork and asked that they delete the files, and was promptly banned from the site.

Thanks to Mike "Ears Hopin" P. (aka "Gigabyte") I was able to contact Simnetwork's web hosting service, and I started the complaint process.

The information required for a piracy complaint is straightforward enough, but compiling it might take more time and effort than it's worth. I have to provide the web hosting service with a list of the files I'm complaining about and a list of those files from a legitimate source. In practice, that's not as easy as it sounds.

Since I'm banned from the site, I can only access Simnetworks via a proxy server, and Simnetworks' primary search function, which gave me a list of files with my name in the descriptions, listed by file name, doesn't work through a proxy server. They have an alternate "legacy html" search function, but the hits come up as a list of URLs to the files with truncated descriptions that show my name, but there are no file names. To produce a list of file names it would be necessary to open each link, hundreds of links, to open a separate page for each file, and either copy and save each page, or compile a list of file names manually.

Producing a list from a legitimate site would be almost as much trouble. The two legitimate sites where my files have been released are this one and FlightSim. At both sites, the results pages show an enlarged thumbnail with a description, so only ten or so files fit on a page. At FlightSim I would have to copy and save page after page of the results list. Here, for some reason, when I search the library for my name, only a few files show up (even though I was hammered with hundreds of e-mails during the process of relocating the files to the new library.)

I've been corresponding with the web hosting service over the past few days. They were very helpful in letting me know what I needed to come up with to sustain a complaint Yesterday I wrote to explain what I just wrote about above, asking if they can make use of such cumbersome documentation.

If they can, I might need some help from someone who isn't banned from Simnetworks, who can use their main search function to produce results pages that list the files by name instead of by URLs.

I'll keep you posted.

[Rami]

Mick,

I've been banned as well after complaining, and they have hosted my stuff without permission.

[wbuchart]

The guy throwing all the stones......is a pirate himself?

[SSI01]

It's the oldest trick in the book - 1)deny everything; 2)demand proof; 3)make counteraccusations. The objective is to deflect attention from yourself to someone else, usually by accusing them of the same thing they are complaining about - thereby equating the two of you in everyone else's eyes, and lessening or totally eliminating the severity of the charge or accusation. Please be aware that by my saying this I believe Mick to have the high ground here, in an unassailable position!

[wbuchart]

It's the oldest trick in the book - 1)deny everything; 2)demand proof; 3)make counteraccusations. The objective is to deflect attention from yourself to someone else, usually by accusing them of the same thing they are complaining about - thereby equating the two of you in everyone else's eyes, and lessening or totally eliminating the severity of the charge or accusation.

Yep, So many things I want to say but in keeping with the Outhouse policies and to remain in good standing within this community and to take the high road and be a better man than him ,,,just imagine I said them...

[OBIO]

I was over at PirateNetWork....and found this discovery to be highly amusing. Swingman.....the person IG accuses of pirating the Duck....did a wonderful Yak-18...which I uploaded to the library here on SOH. Guess what.....that plane is being hosted on PirateNetWork. I thought about downloading it to see how much the read me file has been changed or removed...but did not want to wait 12600 seconds (3.5 hours) for the download to start.

OBIO

[OBIO]

And no...I did not make up the 3.5 hour wait time for the download.

OBIO

[glh]

FWIW, the IcarusGold Grumman Duck is on a 50% off sale on PC AViator for the next 7 days.

[cheezyflier]

you can't see the downloads without giving them $10 for a member****. i can see the forums just fine, as well as the rest of their site. but without being a lifetime member, it won't let you access the d/l page

[Mick]

The guy throwing all the stones......is a pirate himself?

Yep.

[GarryJSmith]

Hi good people,

Simnetwork, as most of us know, has been publishing other peoples work without consent or authorization for many years.

Instant response by simnetwork is to ban the IP address of anyone who complains about their practices and ethics. And in some cases a vitriolic public attack on individuals or organizations that take them to task. The stupidity of these attacks is only exceeded by their blatant disregards for other developers copyright. Nuff Said about them.

Fight-back suggestions for those that feel offended about being plagiarized without consent.

For those who have not yet had their IP address banned -
(1)send simnetwork an email and highlight your case - after you have your IP Banned then do step 2

(2) send the simnetwork current host - LayeredTech - a formal complaint e-mail via abuse@layeredtech.com - include a copy of your request to simnetwork and advise that you were banned from further access.

For those who are already banned - goto step 2 above

I think it is important that developers do everything possible to protect their rights in relation to who can distribute their product - they are the ones that put in the time, skill, effort and energy to create their gifts to the simming community and they are the ones that have the right to choose who will distribute and/or benefit from their labors.

I know some developers are happy to share their stuff and once on the net they move on to their next project - but having your work published by a site that demonstrates a lack of ethics and basically forces paid membership to enable patrons to access your files is disrespectful to your original intentions of freely sharing your work with your flight sim community.

Ignoring the likes of simnetwork and their ethics simply allows them to carry on regardless of your and other developers rights.

I have spend a few minutes and sent off an e-mail to LayeredTech highlighting my objections to them hosting the simnetwork site which is abusing my EULA and civil rights in regards to copyright laws within the US.

I would hope that if enough abused developers advise LayeredTech of their concerns on the practices of simnetwork that they will take appropriate action before it all bubbles into a full blown legal action by some aggrieved developer.

Will get off my soapbox now.

Regards and, as always, happy simming.


Garry J. Smith
Texture tinkerer

[Mick]

Thanks for the support, Garry.

Hmmm... I wonder... If more of us complained to Layered Tech about Simnetworks, I wonder if they might decide, even without all the hassle and aggravation of the formal DMCA process, that Mr. Icarus' business ia giving them a bad name and isn't worth their while...???

Maybe that's a bit much to hope for, but I can't help wondering...

[GarryJSmith]

Hi Mick,

If there is enough complaints then the possibility of LayeredTech making an arbitrary decision to investigate and take action to protect our work and their credibility would seem higher.

But it is dependent on volume of complaints created by abused developers to really focus them on our concerns and take some action to address the problem.

If we sit back and ignore the practices of organizations like simnetwork then we, by our inactions, lack the united strength to redress organizations that abuse our work. They rely on this type of apathy by us because we think it is all too hard to resolve.

But nothing is impossible just needs a few moments to write a complaint and send it in to the Host - and if they move host then we do it again.

You never know, one day there might be a power group of Developers that are able to redress these issues promptly and nip sites like simnetwork in the bud before they suck in buckets of money from naive simmers trying to get access to our work which is legally available elsewhere for free.

Regards and happy simming

[cheezyflier]

I know some developers are happy to share their stuff and once on the net they move on to their next project - but having your work published by a site that demonstrates a lack of ethics and basically forces paid membership to enable patrons to access your files is disrespectful to your original intentions of freely sharing your work with your flight sim community.

Ignoring the likes of simnetwork and their ethics simply allows them to carry on regardless of your and other developers rights.

a fool and his $$ are soon parted. anyone who would pay for access to files tht can be accessed free from other sites that readily come up on a google search almost deserves the fleecing they get.
once again, if people voted with their wallets, and used their brains a little more, people like simnetwork wouldn't even be in business. and just try to enforce the stuff in a freeware file's read me in court. i'm no lawyer, and i don't play one on tv. but i'd be willing to bet it's totally unenforceable.

[Mick]

Alas, the quest is over. Here's the rub:

"If you provide us a valid DMCA notice detailing specific infringements existing on our network we MUST act by requiring action from our clients. The way the law is written the onus is on the person submitting the DMCA to swear, under penalty of perjury, the complaint is valid. Once we receive that complaint we forward it on to our client and require removal of the content - whether they dispute the claim or not the content MUST be removed. However, should they dispute the claim and file a DMCA counter-claim, swearing (under penalty of perjury) they believe the usage to be legitimate then the content will only be required to be offline for two weeks during which time the complainant (you) is expected to initiate a civil court case regarding your claim and obtain an injunction requiring the content remain offline until the case is resolved..."

If I'm willing to do the massive amount of clerical work required, I can get the hosting service to remove the files, but only for two weeks. If Mr. Icarus then claims that he believes his use is legitimate, he can get the restored and I would have to litigate to get them deleted permanently. Even if I recovered the cost of litigation (questionable, depending on where the litigation is done) I would have to cover the expenses up front, and it's not worth that much to me.

If I had time for the clerical work, I'd rather spend it setting up FS in my current confuter, or reading a good book, or thrashing the trails on my mountain bike.

If I had the money to litigate - well, maybe I do, but I have many things I'd rather spend it on.

(Sigh...)

[gigabyte]

Alas, the quest is over. Here's the rub:

"If you provide us a valid DMCA notice detailing specific infringements existing on our network we MUST act by requiring action from our clients. The way the law is written the onus is on the person submitting the DMCA to swear, under penalty of perjury, the complaint is valid. Once we receive that complaint we forward it on to our client and require removal of the content - whether they dispute the claim or not the content MUST be removed. However, should they dispute the claim and file a DMCA counter-claim, swearing (under penalty of perjury) they believe the usage to be legitimate then the content will only be required to be offline for two weeks during which time the complainant (you) is expected to initiate a civil court case regarding your claim and obtain an injunction requiring the content remain offline until the case is resolved..."

If I'm willing to do the massive amount of clerical work required, I can get the hosting service to remove the files, but only for two weeks. If Mr. Icarus then claims that he believes his use is legitimate, he can get the restored and I would have to litigate to get them deleted permanently. Even if I recovered the cost of litigation (questionable, depending on where the litigation is done) I would have to cover the expenses up front, and it's not worth that much to me.

If I had time for the clerical work, I'd rather spend it setting up FS in my current confuter, or reading a good book, or thrashing the trails on my mountain bike.

If I had the money to litigate - well, maybe I do, but I have many things I'd rather spend it on.

(Sigh...)

Mick, sorry I did not catch this sooner (I have been away more than I have been home the past several months), I fully understand your frustration and agree there is little use in litigating "however" if you want to get a little satisfaction and just annoy our friend Icarus and Simnetworks.com you can try the following.

Do the basic clerical work to submit a DMCA complaint, - just claim a violation for a single product, the statement is basically the same for one as it is for 10. Submit it to the host and wait for the reply. If the content does not come down within a reasonable time gently remind them of their obligation. Should our "English language challenged" friend(s) dispute the claim let them repost the content. Then what you do regardless of whether they dispute or not you file a new complaint for another piece of content, just cut & paste the link and your claim statement into a new eMail to the Host, "rinse & repeat" every two weeks until you have covered each piece of content of yours that is listed on the Simnetworks.com site. If we can get a couple of additional developers to do the same it will become a real PITA for the host and Simnetworks (as if you should care about that). Should the host get upset dealing with separate complaints simply remind them you are blocked from access to the Simnetworks site and must use extraordinary measures to verify that the content is on the site and it takes time to verify each instance.

In the long run it will not likely make much difference but you will have the satisfaction of knowing you were a real pain in their A$$. Knowing the way they work Simnetworks is not likely to respond or pull the content and that might cause them a real problem with the hosting service.

Just a thought from ole Gig...