Swingman's GRUMMAN DUCK is the real thing

[GarryRussell]

Icarus is just digging himself deeper and deeper.

In a way he's done us all a favour as knowing what we do and being forced to compare his product with another is good advice on whether or not money should be spent.

Lives well up to his namesake who didn't listen to advice, flew too high and came a cropper.

I am very impressed with SOH for sticking with this and conducting it throughout in a very honest, balanced and respectful manner.

[Mick]

What the heck would possess Icarus to do this? ...

I think it's because he figures he'll lose sales of his inferior payware product if there's a superior model of the same plane available for free. And he's right.

Since most simmers don't come to this site and read the forums, and most who visit FlightSim don't follow the forums, he has nothing to lose by calling the comparison to the attention of the few who will read about it here and at FlightSim, no matter how foolish he looks to us few. If he can keep Swingman's Duck off of the big download sites, most people will never hear about it, and if they want a Duck they might buy his.

The extent of his stridency suggests mental illness, but his basic idea makes sense. It's crooked and unethical, but it makes sense from his point of view.

[cajj1]

Although it seems, from what I read here, that he is blocking the IP address of many of the visitors to his site. An unusual way to promote sales!

[Tako_Kichi]

Hmm! I'm getting the 404 message now. All I've done is read this thread and his forum. Is he blocking ALL SOH members. I think he has a serious problem.

He has his site set up to block any re-directs from SOH. That means that if you are on this site and type his web address in the address bar at the top of your browser it will show on his end as a re-direct from this site and will then be blocked, the same applies to any links to his site in messages here.

The only ways to get access are to:

1) open a new tab or browser window and type in his address

or

2) use Google (or another search engine) to find his site and then access it from there

or

3) If he has already blocked your IP address then use a proxy server to connect (e.g. http://www.hidemyass.com/ ) which will hide your IP address.

[aircav1970]

Just a quick "Thanks" to Swingman,I'm flying his Duck and enjoying it very much!

[bushpilot]

There's a post at Icarus site, which states that "Countries list banned". I don't think he's blocking any particular users or ips, but huge ip-ranges. But yeah proxy or other trickery helps. I can access the site via The Onion Router-network.

[roger-wilco-66]

I also can only access it via http://www.proxybrowsing.com/ from Germany. But what for. This page is so full of rants and hate in all kinds of directions that it is hardly bearable. There seems to be a personality pattern behind that.
Despite all the unpleasant behaviour, I somehow feel sorry for the guy. He should go and seek some help on some issues.

Mark

[lazarus]

Just out of curiosity, I wandered in to the icarus forums through a proxy server. My my. There is a pathology there. On the up side, It looks as if superadmin and gera have the site to them selves. Between the obviously heavy redactions, 1st form grammar and spelling, and incoherent rantings, I laughed so much I nearly plotzed! But no other people post there. None in over a year. How interesting. The comments about the god-like ego of re-painters is a very good rant, too. That is an individual in the throes of a major braincase fire.
So 3 cheers for Swingman, Craig, and SOH's merry band. If we are to be branded pirates, then it is as a Privateer with a letter of marque from the Crown. Hoist the colors and run him ashore. Sir Francis Drake would be pleased!

[Canelo]

Thursday we will be archiving this thread for public record, the front page announcement has moved to the bottom of the SOH front page and we be available as an article for future references.

I commend all for not making any personal attacks against Icarusgold but staying with know facts only. We let a few personal opinions slide but nothing that is mean or is not true.

If any other members want to make comments please do so today or tomorrow, it's time to put this issue to bed!

Again thanks for keeping on subject and not make this into a pissing contest.

[Mick]

I just hope someone can educate me about how to determine a site's web hosting service, so I can file a piracy complaint against Simnetwork.

[Ferry_vO]

Try this site, Mick: http://whois.domaintools.com/

[cheezyflier]

oh, the irony of it all. as rabidly anti-piracy as this place is, and it gets accused of being a pirate site. but a good lesson to be learned here also. now all of you can see where all that over-zealous emotion can get you.

when he released the pitts, i bought it, and downloaded it. after the fact, i learned that my c.c. declined it. so i sent him an email, apologized for the mix up, and deleted the model from my hard drive.
i was trying to do the right thing, ya know? now i learn that it was junk anyhow? looks to me like i dodged a bullet. i never opened it or looked at it, so i don't actually know how good it was or wasn't.

[gigabyte]

I just hope someone can educate me about how to determine a site's web hosting service, so I can file a piracy complaint against Simnetwork.

Mick, Simnetwork.com use Domains by Proxy so you can't find out who owns the site, but interesting enough they use the same hosing service and share the same IP address as guess who Icarusgold.com - Oh wow interesting... yes Icarusgold.com and simnetwork.com both use IP address as shown here;

C:\>ping www.simnetwork.com


Pinging simnetwork.com [72.232.147.122] with 32 bytes of data:


C:\>ping icarusgold.com


Pinging icarusgold.com [72.232.147.122] with 32 bytes of data:

Draw your own conclusions about that, it could mean they share server space, or that they are owned and run off the same server by the same person, no way to tell when both hide the real registration details behind a blind Proxy registrar (common tactic for sites that like to hide what they are really up to).

quick tip if you want to find out who is hosting any site go to a windows command prompt (that old black dos like window and type - ping www.sitename.com you will get the IP address of the server. Then go to http://whois.domaintools.com/ and input the IP address and you get the name of the domain owner (or registration name as in this case) and the name of the hosting service. The hosting service is what you want send your complaint to the eMail address listed as Abuse contact and be as specific as possible, include links, file names and portions of the read me that state you refuse permission for the use on the site. Then sit back & wait for a reply, and hosting services will reply unlike domain owners who seem to ignore what they do not want to see.

For simnetwork, her is your info...

NetRange: 72.232.0.0 - 72.233.127.255
CIDR: 72.233.0.0/17, 72.232.0.0/16
OriginAS:
NetName: LAYERED-TECH-
NetHandle: NET-72-232-0-0-1
Parent: NET-72-0-0-0-0
NetType: Direct Allocation
Comment: Please send all abuse complaints to
Comment:
RegDate: 2005-09-07
Updated: 2012-02-24
Ref: http://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-72-232-0-0-1


OrgName: Layered Technologies, Inc.
OrgId: LAYER-3
Address: 5085 W Park Blvd
Address: Suite 700
City: Plano
StateProv: TX
PostalCode: 75093
Country: US
RegDate: 2004-07-21
Updated: 2010-08-13
Comment: Please send all abuse complaints to abuse@layerdtech.com


​Hope this helps...
("Let Being Helpful Be More Important Than Being Right!")

[OBIO]

Folks....

I hope that the wonderful Ducks that Swingman presented us with, and that Craig was able to produce in FSX native form using Swingman's Gmax source files....bring much joy to all who download and fly it. I have had recent e-mails from Swingman, and he stated that he created the Ducks for two friends who had paper models of the Ducks nearly 20 years ago....that was his motivation behind creating those amazingly detailed planes....an act of friendship and brotherhood. He chose to share the models with the entire simming community....and was nearly instantly branded a pirate.......instead of throwing in the towel and walking away from flight sim development, he followed the Ducks with his equally amazing Yak-18....a plane that NO other modeler had ever down for any version of flight sim (to the best of my knowledge at any rate). Will there be future Swingman goodies....I don't know. I hope there will be.

On behalf of Swingman, Craig, the staff and administration of SOH.....go enjoy the Ducks!

OBIO

[AussieMan]

Where can we find the YAK 18?

[Tako_Kichi]

Where can we find the YAK 18?

Here ya go Pat.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...ats=1&altbit=1

Ignore the fact that it says 'beta' as it was good to go by all accounts. It's FS2004 native not FSX but it will probably port OK.

[Mick]

Mick, Simnetwork.com use Domains by Proxy so you can't find out who owns the site, but interesting enough they use the same hosing service and share the same IP address as guess who Icarusgold.com - Oh wow interesting... yes Icarusgold.com and simnetwork.com both use IP address as shown here... Please send all abuse complaints to abuse@layerdtech.com ​Hope this helps...
("Let Being Helpful Be More Important Than Being Right!")

Thank You !!!

Complaint sent. I will post about the results - if they get back to me.

Since this thread will soon be locked, I'll start a new thread about anything I hear from the hosting service. I just hope that Mr.Icarus doesn't have his own hosting service, or isn't using one that caters to pirates (if there are such services - it seems that there probably are...)

Maybe if I have success it will inspire others and maybe start a trend.

[Mick]

Just in case anyone else is thinking about following my example, the e-address for reporting abuse had a typo in it. it should be:

abuse@layeredtech.com

(There was an 'e' missing in the original post.)

I learned that when my original e-mail bounced. Then I Googled for Layerer Tech and found their site, went to their Contact page and spotted the typo.

So far I just got an automated acknowledgement of receipt, but that's all I expected on a holiday.

I was pleased to see that Layered Tech is an American company, located in Plano, Texas. I know that doesn't guarantee results, but at least we know it's not some fly-by-night pirate host hiding in the back room of some bicycle shop in Europe.

[gigabyte]

Just in case anyone else is thinking about following my example, the e-address for reporting abuse had a typo in it. it should be:

abuse@layeredtech.com

(There was an 'e' missing in the original post.)

I learned that when my original e-mail bounced. Then I Googled for Layerer Tech and found their site, went to their Contact page and spotted the typo.

So far I just got an automated acknowledgement of receipt, but that's all I expected on a holiday.

I was pleased to see that Layered Tech is an American company, located in Plano, Texas. I know that doesn't guarantee results, but at least we know it's not some fly-by-night pirate host hiding in the back room of some bicycle shop in Europe.

Oops, the typo is my fault, I copied the text from Domain tools, but you are unable copy any eMail address from that site (a little trick they use to prevent bots from harvesting addresses) and when I pasted it in my message I had to manually type the address - now you know why I warn everyone about my typoering and spellerin. <extends hand smacks self up side the one more time>...


Oh and Layered Tech is definately no fly-by-night, I know numerous sites that are hosted by them including some very fine upstanding Flight Sim forums in fact...

[bushpilot]

Complaint sent. I will post about the results - if they get back to me.

Good luck:salute: I've seen my old paints on various nasty sites, in which you have to pay to get access to downloads. It's not really encouraging to see that happen.

[Mick]

All my stuff was freeware, so I really don't care all that much if it turns up someplace where I didn't release it. I believe that David shares my attitude that it's really a compliment that someone thinks my stuff is worth hosting. But I get somewhat annoyed by sites like FSPirate - oops, I mean FSPlanet - Simnetwork and a few others that host files without the developers' permission.

I'm not doing this because I've been harmed in any way. I just want to hassle Mr. Icarus, if I can, because he deserves it so much.

[Mick]

Process started, and I've begun a new thread to tell about it.