what kind of automatic rifles do you have?

[TeaSea]

Never wanted to kill anything that didn't want to kill me and the urge to want guns left me when I was about 12. Still we're all God's creatures I suppose.

I don't hunt either Roger. Never really liked it and I don't care that much for the taste of wild game (other than fowl) having been brought up on grain fed beef. Rather go fishing.

That being said, I do enjoy shooting. I've gone out with more than one person to the skeet range, who never previously saw the appeal, and made them into raving skeet lunatics in less than 5 minutes. Also,accurate shooting at stationary targets requires good physical conditioning, patience, experience, and practice, practice, practice. There's a Zen-like quality to it when you get in "the zone". One of the best shooters I've ever known was also a yoga instructor.

Another sport which admittedly, I don't do now, is biathlon. You run a cross country course rather than a skiing one, usually a 5 mile run, and every 1.5 miles the runner stops and engages a stationary target (in our case with a 9mm Beretta). Points are deducted from your running time for every target missed. This is loads of fun and we did it in my unit in Germany with our partnership unit in the Bundeswehr several times (they host one, we host one -- then we drink beer).

Everyone says they go out just for the fun, but about half way through this becomes incredibly competitive -- guys (and gals) throwing up on the track kind of competitive.

(I added that last part because I always wanted to use that smiley...but it is true)

[stiz]

I
Points are deducted from your running time for every target missed.

so you get rewarded for being a bad shot?

[familton]

Phil I am sorry you feel that way but you are sure entitled to it. Glad you are no longer in the U.S. Regards, Bob.

[FengZ]

man, this thread must freak out people not living in the US! LoL.

i'm living full time in Singapore now, where it's illegal to own firearms. I've been telling them stories about living in Los Angeles, and how EVERYONE pretty much have a gun there.

It's interesting to live in a place where weapons are banned (even cops here have weak guns).

-feng

[Panther_99FS]

Let's keep it civil without upsetting folks......

That being said, what about knives? A lot of know that excellent French simulator artist Bruno Duffort is also a VERY ACCOMPLISHED knife maker

--> http://www.brunoduffort.fr/indexUS.html

[stiz]

thing with knives though is that their used for other things, their sole reason for being around isnt just to kill

[AckAck]

I have a proton pack, in case they get the gun. I just flip it on and say, "Why worry? I just have an unlicensed nuclear accelerator on my back," and they edge away slowly to the other side of the elevator and ...

Wait, maybe that doesn't happen.

Brian

[AckAck]

thing with knives though is that their used for other things, their sole reason for being around isnt just to kill

Guns are far more often used as a deterrent than an actual weapon. Just like nuclear bombs.

Now swords - that's kind of like a knife, but with only one purpose. Except for spreading jam, of course.

Brian

[Henry]

Guns are far more often used as a deterrent than an actual weapon. Just like nuclear bombs.

Now swords - that's kind of like a knife, but with only one purpose. Except for spreading jam, of course.

Brian

hey it cuts bread great
Deja vue
we have had similar threads just vanish
it all comes down to the person
who has the responsibility not the weapon itself
i have no guns myself but i have pretty mean dogs
if someone came to my house
my personal take
a gun collector is like a guitar collector
we all like objects
this is a www and different laws come into play
in different countries
so be nice and understand some of us can collect and others cannot
H

[Willy]

Bruno does make some very nice looking knives.

Most shooting I do now is at cans and stuff. If the deer get in my father in law's vegetable garden I will go up there to clear them out and get some venison for the freezer though.

At one time I was into Civil War re-enacting and still have some of my old guns from that. Then I was getting into Cowboy Action Shooting, but after a few rounds with the "costume nazis" I gave up on that although it is a lot of fun when people who can't shoot straight aren't pinging on you about your boots. So now it's mostly putting 44 caliber holes in tin cans.

[viking3]

Another sport which admittedly, I don't do now, is biathlon. You run a cross country course rather than a skiing one, usually a 5 mile run, and every 1.5 miles the runner stops and engages a stationary target (in our case with a 9mm Beretta). Points are deducted from your running time for every target missed.

I participated in a similar exercise while in the Canadian Forces, where we would start at the 600yd hill on the range, fire 5 rounds, run up 100 yds to the next hill and adopt a different firing position fire 5 rounds, jump up and run forward 100 yds. and adopt a different position to fire and so on up to the 100 yd. hill. We were judged by both accuracy and time so it was a real challenge to move as fast a possible but maintain steady breathing and shooting discipline.
We were using the FNC1 which I really liked even though it was a heavy sombitch. It could be converted to a full-auto with a file, and of course we had the FNC2 which was a fully auto version of the same rifle with bifold legs. Lot's of punch in those 7.62 NATO rounds.

Regards, Rob:ernae:

[Mâra Trilokadev]

Beretta CX4 in 9mm, Vector Arms AK-47, and a Lucznik Wz88 Tantal.

[Wing_Z]

...We were using the FNC1 which I really liked even though it was a heavy sombitch. It could be converted to a full-auto with a file, and of course we had the FNC2 which was a fully auto version of the same rifle with bifold legs. Lot's of punch in those 7.62 NATO rounds... Regards, Rob:ernae:

Heh the FN was a tight-tolerance weapon, which meant that in most of the real scenarios around the world (=dust, heat, condensate, sand) it was all but useless and jammed if you as much as looked at it.
And if you were stupid enough to do the mod and make it fire fully-auto, chances were it would kill you because the barrel would overheat, distort, and create a blow-back :d

I'm surprised no-one has come up with one of the greatest bits of engineering ever produced in the 20th century, product of Mikhail Kalashnikov:


This thing could go through sandstorm, blizzard, river and sea, and still go on doing that which is the primary function of any automatic weapon: kill people, lots of them.

[Cactuskid]

I'm surprised no-one has come up with one of the greatest bits of engineering ever produced in the 20th century, product of Mikhail Kalashnikov:

This thing could go through sandstorm, blizzard, river and sea, and still go on doing that which is the primary function of any automatic weapon: kill people, lots of them.

You need to go back and read through this thread again Wing... I own two of them!

[Wing_Z]

Oops sorry there it was, item 7.
How d'you get a licence for a thing like that?
And tell us, what is it you do with this baby?

[Ridge]

Let's keep it civil without upsetting folks......

That being said, what about knives? A lot of know that excellent French simulator artist Bruno Duffort is also a VERY ACCOMPLISHED knife maker

--> http://www.brunoduffort.fr/indexUS.html

:isadizzy: You want to keep it civil, then you bring up Bruno Duffort?

[MudMarine]

No automatics here either. But I do have these… :d

hehe Looks like my collection except add: (2) K98 Mauser's, M1 Carbine, STAG AR-15 w/aimpoint, M1A1 Thompson, 1898 Winchester pump shotgun, Remington 870, India pattern Brown Bess. I won't get into the pistol stuff!

PS No AK's.....I've fired them before and I think they're junk, my opinion, but then again I was only a four time Marine rilfe expert and rifle team member what do I know?! :-)

PPS WWII auto weapons I've fired.....I don't own any auto's myself: B.A.R (all time favorite), all models Thompson, 1918 .30 cal and .50 cals, MP40, MG42, MP44, auto M2 Carbine (Korean war), most rare weapon I've fired is probably the M1941 Johnson .30cal rifle, not many people have fired that one.

[Piglet]

Didn't the USA gains its independence from England with firearms? The most advanced firearms of the day?
Notice that no one in this whole thread said that they wanted to kill people, or cause mayhem, yet we own tons of weapons? Guess we're not THAT bad!
Firearms are one of those interests that either you understand, and like, or you don't. Either way I hope your gov't allows a choice.

[TeaSea]

In general, I believe folks can discuss things at SOH for a longer period of time before one of us accuses the other of being a Nazi.

You have heard that the longer a given thread goes on, the closer we all get to being Nazi's!! :mixedsmi:

[wombat666]

Heh the FN was a tight-tolerance weapon, which meant that in most of the real scenarios around the world (=dust, heat, condensate, sand) it was all but useless and jammed if you as much as looked at it.
And if you were stupid enough to do the mod and make it fire fully-auto, chances were it would kill you because the barrel would overheat, distort, and create a blow-back :d

I'm surprised no-one has come up with one of the greatest bits of engineering ever produced in the 20th century, product of Mikhail Kalashnikov:


This thing could go through sandstorm, blizzard, river and sea, and still go on doing that which is the primary function of any automatic weapon: kill people, lots of them.

Access to weapons for me of many 'interesting' types is more or less unlimited, thanks to my 'part-time' employer ...........
Could not agree more about the above, we hated our SLR 'Mechanical Muskets' with the same amount of venom as the M16!

The Kalashnikov was our (unofficial) weapon of choice, particularly for SAS Insertions and Recon Ops in Viet Nam.
Never ever had one give up on anyone in my squadron and we never ran short of ammunition .... with only 11 moving parts it was ideal.
Same applied in Bosnia, as long as they were the old heavier calibre, not that woosie little 5.5 round.

FWIW, full-auto weapons are not and never have been issued on a large scale to the average member of the PBI in the ADF.
We Aussies can't afford the cost the ammunition and replacing the burnt out tubes.
:mixedsmi:

[Matt Wynn]

M16 is commonly misconcieved as a bad design, but you keep that guy on semi-auto and she loves you... SLR is a sumb!tch, weighs a fair bit and loves jamming up if you so much as breathe on it let alone go on ops in a cold wet environment... it really doesn't matter what you own as long as you're responsible with it, only use it for say range days and not terrorising... i'm in the category of people that wish the UK had what the US has and the right to bear arms, most kids nowadays think you hold a pistol sideways, like to see them aim and shoot straight like that, instead of the Weaver stance or modified weaver... anyways back on topic... only 1 weapon i would love to fire again... the MP7, next to no recoil, compact yet surprisingly stable and a round designed to penetrate boday armour, mind you the AW50F could penetrate body armour given half the chance, anyways on an off note whats the longest shot you've made using either a)Iron Sighted rifle, or b)telescopic sight mounted rifle? and what rifles were they, reason i ask is that i am intrigued to hear first hand 'reports' over ranges (never trust the owners manuals)...

[viking3]

The FNC1 was heavy and prone to jam, and would leave a pretty good bruised cheek if you didn't have the gas return set right, but for just playing on the range I found it to be pretty accurate. At 300yds I could group 5 shots in 6 inches on the bullseye which I thought was fair to middlin. Any further than that the groupings were not so good. At 200 yds we would shoot out the 2x4s holding up the targets just to piss off the poor buggers in the butts. Guys used to shoot at the pointer sticks when they would try to show you where you shot. Good thing we were just a bunch of aircraft mechs playing grunt as the 'Base Defence Force', I would hate to have gone into action with some of those GIJoes and that heavy old FN.

[TeaSea]

Hmmm,

about to get into the M16 vs AK47 discussion.....these are almost religious in nature and there are rarely any winners....

So, I"ll plunge right in!!

AK-47 is an excellent design, robust, cheaply manufactured, and easy to learn to fire. It also has a relatively low muzzle velocity of some 2300 feet per second, it's inaccurate beyond 200 yards, and it's weight with ammunition makes it a beast (in my experience rifles without ammunition are not effective).

M-16 is also an excellent design, robust when maintained properly, costs a bit more than the AK, easy to learn to fire, accurate on a point target out to 500 yards, and it's lighter with ammunition (lot's more ammunition) than the AK. It's muzzle velocity is over 3000 feet per second, so that tiny little 5.56 round does a LOT of damage.

Having fired and carried both in the field, I would have to call my self an "M-16 man" (particularly the M4 variant -- I retired before the A4's became prevalent) . It's just more accurate and in my opinion a better all around tool. I also find it telling that given a choice, former Communist countries will select the M-16 over the AK-47 for their own armies. The Iraqi's were particularly insistent that the M-16 replace the AK-47 in the emerging Iraqi military.

I will have to defer on the FAL as I have no personal experience with the rifle other than one instance of range familiarization. I found it to be a fine weapon at the time, but having never had to carry one around....

Several folks I know collect AK-47's and the variants. There's also a guy in the neighborhood here who collects Japanese weapons from WWII. He has converted a part of his house to the collection (alarmed room). He must have hundreds. These are all operational and are of museum quality. I asked him why Japanese weapons, and he had a pretty good answer....they were the cheapest firearms available at the time he started his collection!

[Snuffy]

I don't need an automatic rifle to put out a hail of lead ... I use a single shot and usually hit with the first ...

[Piglet]

Ahhh the ol' AK-M16 debate.
Got an answer to that.
The Valmet M-76. AK-type action built to Western standards. Good fit and finish, well designed sights, and just looks cool! Too bad Valmet doesn't make em anymore. Got mine on sale in the early '80's.
Semi auto only, which suits me just fine. Full auto is fun, but can get real expensive to shoot and own, even if Kalifornia law allowed it.

thing with knives though is that their used for other things, their sole reason for being around isnt just to kill

Same with my firearms, used for range work, plinking, sport, but never killed anyone.