Stock P-47D/M overhaul, northern Europe

[greycap.raf]

So... this kind of happened. It's normal behaviour for me to get bored with a project halfway through and it happened with the Lightnings too. With the model fighting back at every turn I wanted something else to do while gathering motivation for it. So I put everything I know into the stock Thunderbolt (with its own problems, it has to be said) and this came out. The Lightnings haven't been forgotten but they're on a hold for a while.

[65olschool]

Outstanding mate, wish I had the skill to do work that good in my sparetime

Mick

[Daiwilletti]

I like it when you get bored ...

[gecko]

Those look gorgeous!

[sixstrings5859]

Looks to be the best looking ,and as with your other work, the best flying P-47's ,based on the stock model, there is. Really excited about these ! They look spectacular ! Regards,Scott

[Pat Pattle]

Once again, you have waved your wand and transformed an ugly duckling! Inspiring work!

[mongoose]

Those look great, and nicely weathered.

[greycap.raf]

Once again, you have waved your wand [...]

That just sounds wrong somehow.

I'm not exactly sure myself what makes the difference to the Mustangs and Lightnings but somehow this turned out a couple of magnitudes better than either of them what comes to the aluminium surface. It might be the riveting and its shadowing - the Mustang in particular having almost none thanks to the puttied and sanded wing.

It almost feels wrong to cover that said aluminium in paint, but it has to be done. Otherwise we couldn't have these.

[sixstrings5859]

Awesome work ! Thanks for taking this project on. Much needed ... Regards,Scott

[Frosty]

So... this kind of happened. It's normal behaviour for me to get bored with a project halfway through and it happened with the Lightnings too. ...

That is all too recognizable! I sometimes wish my project was finished and I could pick up something else! These P-47s look better than any of the ones that presently are around! . But don't lose yourself too much in the stock model or you might want to do those skins again at some point in the future... . (Paint kit promised!)

... I'm not exactly sure myself what makes the difference to the Mustangs and Lightnings but somehow this turned out a couple of magnitudes better than either of them what comes to the aluminium surface. ...

That is what I refer to as the perfect 'recipe' for a certain material; it can take forever to find, but once you do... satisfaction!! Right now it is difficult not to lose myself in creating various skins instead of actually finishing the model. The P-47, however, is a temptress: there were so many interesting, colourful paint jobs flying around (especially of the D-25 through D-30 variants - why did I ever choose to model the D-40? ) that I already seem to have deviated from my initial plans.

Question regarding your aluminium: are you getting your effect just through the .dds files or are you also working with the materials of the stock P-47 .M3D gmax model? I seem to have varying success in gmax: Apart from choosing the metal or blinn shader, the in-game effect sometimes seem to be more influenced by the _r or _s files than by the shader values in gmax. My current bare metal finish is a metal shader with specularity and gloss both set to '0'. The entire effect comes from the .dds files.

PS. How are you on flight models for those P-47 models mentioned (with and without retrofitted fin fillet)?

[greycap.raf]

These P-47s look better than any of the ones that presently are around! . But don't lose yourself too much in the stock model or you might want to do those skins again at some point in the future... . (Paint kit promised!)

That would be an honour more than anything else. I'll very likely drop in at some point when the time is ready for it.

Question regarding your aluminium: are you getting your effect just through the .dds files or are you also working with the materials of the stock P-47 .M3D gmax model? I seem to have varying success in gmax: Apart from choosing the metal or blinn shader, the in-game effect sometimes seem to be more influenced by the _r or _s files than by the shader values in gmax. My current bare metal finish is a metal shader with specularity and gloss both set to '0'. The entire effect comes from the .dds files.

Purely the _s.dds. I'm not even using the reflectivity, I've found that I get results more to my liking with the specularity. The desired finish is what I call "the used aluminium frying pan" and now I've finally reached it.

PS. How are you on flight models for those P-47 models mentioned (with and without retrofitted fin fillet)?

These are actually a bit of a test bed for them. Only the fin fillet needs to be added but it's a matter of minutes when needed, the flight models for the R-2800-59/63 engine are already done both with and without dive recovery flaps, as well as the R-2800-57C for the M model. Level speeds at 0, 5k, 10k, 15k, 20k and 32k feet within 1 mph of the real one and climb rate within 15 ft/min. Not kidding.

[Frosty]

... The desired finish is what I call "the used aluminium frying pan" and now I've finally reached it. ..

Haha, I like that! After putting hours in looking at video's and photo's I am amazed what shades and patina aluminium shows once it is exposed to the weather and different light conditions; from new and nearly mirror shiny and new to almost flat grey. A real challenge to depict that without ending up with a polished chrome airshow warbird or a flat grey paint job!

... These are actually a bit of a test bed for them. Only the fin fillet needs to be added but it's a matter of minutes when needed, the flight models for the R-2800-59/63 engine are already done both with and without dive recovery flaps, as well as the R-2800-57C for the M model. Level speeds at 0, 5k, 10k, 15k, 20k and 32k feet within 1 mph of the real one and climb rate within 15 ft/min. Not kidding.

Oooh, nice! You want the real deal to test fly? It's partly clickable, you know...

[greycap.raf]

Haha, I like that! After putting hours in looking at video's and photo's I am amazed what shades and patina aluminium shows once it is exposed to the weather and different light conditions; from new and nearly mirror shiny and new to almost flat grey. A real challenge to depict that without ending up with a polished chrome airshow warbird or a flat grey paint job!

It took me a decade of improving it one part at a time but now it finally all clicked into place. When I was first looking at the model after getting all the rivets done and weathering it I was simply struck by awe myself - did I really do that? Apparently I did.

Oooh, nice! You want the real deal to test fly? It's partly clickable, you know...

Absolutely, and it's also the only way for me to get the contact points and such right. I'll email you in a moment.


But in the meantime let's have a couple more skins. Not the most spectacular ones this time, the eye poppers are still in fine tuning.

[Frosty]

... But in the meantime let's have a couple more skins. Not the most spectacular ones this time, the eye poppers are still in fine tuning. ...

Aargh, stop doing that! . I'm doing 'Jeanie' too and planned to add 'Kokomo' to my list as well (I really dig the light-yellow-on-green emblem). Most skins still are in various stages of development but you may force me to show my hand prematurely! . The one below is still without panel differences and weathering.

Great job BTW!! . You cleaned the text of 'Jeanie' better than I did and you did find a better rendition of the 'Kokomo' nose art. I did find a source that claimed that the name 'Jeanie' wasn't there (I've seen a photo showing the P-47 with just the pin-up girl - at that particular moment in time anyway) so I am not sure I'll keep it as-is. The trouble with a lot of profiles, decal sheets and plastic model paint info is that they aren't always right: I am doing one that supposedly has bordered bands around the fuselage. I have a photo that leads me to believe that the painters did a sloppy job at masking and the additional stripes are just paint spray that has gotten beyond the masking tape (or whatever they used).

We're not gonna start a skinning contest, are we? Because we'll both lose - to John .

[MajorMagee]

The side-by-side look at the same aircraft really let's me see the improvements to the underlying model that you've made.

[Bravo/4]

Yea I think you nailed that aluminium look Rene, nice dirt patterns too, obviously done the homework.

Looking very sharp Joost, and as Andy said you can really see the vastly improved model work over the stock model, great stuff!
Is the v pit finished?
BTW I'll need to contact you regards some Bf109 F info, if you are available?

[Frosty]

... Is the v pit finished?
BTW I'll need to contact you regards some Bf109 F info, if you are available?

Pit is not finished (of course ) as I lost myself a bit in this skinning business. I also managed to screw up my library (organisation-wise) but all the books are still there so fire away!

[Bravo/4]

No worries Joost, the pits can grind you down!
I'll be in touch soon!

[greycap.raf]

The previously mentioned eye poppers... well, they've been fine tuned enough.

[Led Zeppelin]

Love those skins!

[sixstrings5859]

Believe me, they fly as well as they look. Rene is doing a bang up job on these. We are in for a treat. Joost's model is really looking great also. Regards,Scott

[greycap.raf]

Only that in this case flying well means performing worse than just about any Thunderbolt you've seen for CFS3 this far. For reasons unknown to me almost all add-ons from the first 15 years or so of CFS3 modding have overperformed quite a bit, even the otherwise highly regarded AvHistory 4.00 releases. Too much power, too much top speed, seriously too much climb rate.

I had to nerf the Mustangs, I had to nerf the Lightnings, and indeed I had to nerf the Thunderbolts too. Now their performance is at a realistic level but the climb rate of these P-47Ds is down almost 1000 ft/min compared to the ones in ETO for example. They do over 4100 ft/min - more than a real P-47M was capable of - while these are around 3200 ft/min as they should.

[mongoose]

Only that in this case flying well means performing worse than just about any Thunderbolt you've seen for CFS3 this far. For reasons unknown to me almost all add-ons from the first 15 years or so of CFS3 modding have overperformed quite a bit, even the otherwise highly regarded AvHistory 4.00 releases. Too much power, too much top speed, seriously too much climb rate.

I had to nerf the Mustangs, I had to nerf the Lightnings, and indeed I had to nerf the Thunderbolts too. Now their performance is at a realistic level but the climb rate of these P-47Ds is down almost 1000 ft/min compared to the ones in ETO for example. They do over 4100 ft/min - more than a real P-47M was capable of - while these are around 3200 ft/min as they should.

Interesting. How extensive do you feel this applies to 3rd person models for CFS3?

[greycap.raf]

Interesting. How extensive do you feel this applies to 3rd person models for CFS3?

In the early days, and indeed for a decade or so afterwards, it was a total Wild West but the situation has improved tremendously from the mid-2010s until the current day. No more do we have in new releases anything resembling, for example, Curtiss Hawk 75s that do 450+ mph at 30.000 feet with a 1600+ bhp engine or Airacobras that climb at 4700+ ft/min. No Fw 190s with a 5700+ ft/min climb rate and a 250+ degrees/s roll rate either. All those mentioned are found in ETO too.

[mongoose]

Hmmm. I might have to check out the older 109Gs which I plan to use for Wilde Sau! The 190A's will be OK from gecko.