Aeroplane Heaven P-51D released

[Mathias]

Fw´s (Mathias), he's German, and they offered the option to change tail planes with or without swastikas.

To be fair, we do not offer Swastikas for our planes since we're bound by the same laws and customs as Bazz. By conincidence those historical markings so far have always been made available on third party sites by someone else on release day or soon after. I'd suppose the same is true for Aeroplane Heaven products.
So bottom line is, historical German markings are usually done by repainters these days, not by commercial vendors.

[shotgunshack]

Had a frustrating afternoon with ailerons against the stops and still rolling. So did what I have found has worked in the past and deleted the first P-51 then reloaded from the same exe and all was good. Managed several circuits at Duxford using as little throttle as possible but coming in quite hot as it says in the book. Absolutely love it, however I do think there is a problem with the sound specifically the start up as it seems two sounds have been knitted together from very different origins resulting in a tin of nails effect just after start up. Apart from that, wonderful.

[ftl818]

mmm, I tried my first flight, but no luck..
On the runway, the throttle is stuck at 55 inch manifold pressure, and if I change it, it goes back to 55 immediately.
I checked with the Asobo P-51, no problem there, so it seems to be the AH P-51...I just crash when I try to take off.
When I slew into the air, the throttle responds normally, really strange.
But when I fly it, I come to the next problem...
to be honest, I really really don't like the sound, at all.
I have been close to quite a few Mustangs (and other running Merlins), but I've never heard one that sounded anything like this. Outside it's bad, inside even worse.
I'm sorry Baz, I really want to like it, but I don't, so far.
I've hangered it till the next update.

I just checked the manifold pressure with full throttle (not that you need it though). For me it is about 60 inches. With WEP the manifold pressure goes to 70 but immediately drops back to 60 again. So the WEP is not maintained. Throttle 1 is mapped to my Saitek X55. I fully agree with Jankees, the engine sound does the Packard 1650 Merlin no justice. In fact when not seeing the aircraft directly you could not identify the engine as being a Packard or RR Merlin. Does the tailwheel castor freely? The tailwheel lock works but for me the animation of the tailwheel does not.

[keithb77]

Tempted by this, but the Twin Otter is coming...sounds are concerning, but remember you would actually fly with leather helmet and radio headphones so wouldn't get the full Merlin effect...
Alternatively maybe we could swap in the Msfs Mustang sound?

[ColoKent]

Okay...so I have pretty much confirmed that there is a conflict between the P-51 and the ORBX KVNY scenery that causes the freeze. I pulled the scenery out of the Community folder, and had no more crashes. BTW-- apparently whatever incompatibility there is, is not across the board, ORBX-wise, as KBUR works fine.

Nit picks...

1. Sound is "a-hem" not what we would expect on this bird
2. Prop blades do not go flat at shutdown...there is ALWAYS pitch in them. This does not seem to align with real life
3. PLEASE give us a 1950s/60's military pilot option with a bone done...this will facilitate a) Korean War and ANG repaints, b) Private owners who wear helmets, c.) Central American and other 1950s-60s users of the Mustang and it's Cavalier variant

Still hungering after the DC-3 though!

Kent

[collensr]

Okay...so I have pretty much confirmed that there is a conflict between the P-51 and the ORBX KVNY scenery that causes the freeze. I pulled the scenery out of the Community folder, and had no more crashes. BTW-- apparently whatever incompatibility there is, is not across the board, ORBX-wise, as KBUR works fine.

Nit picks...

1. Sound is "a-hem" not what we would expect on this bird
2. Prop blades do not go flat at shutdown...there is ALWAYS pitch in them. This does not seem to align with real life
3. PLEASE give us a 1950s/60's military pilot option with a bone done...this will facilitate a) Korean War and ANG repaints, b) Private owners who wear helmets, c.) Central American and other 1950s-60s users of the Mustang and it's Cavalier variant

Still hungering after the DC-3 though!

Kent

100% agree with the HGU-55 helmet request b) please. I have repeated this plea for all Warbirds released so far in MSFS. In the non-combat, modern world of MSFS it makes perfect sense to me that the first priority should be to accurately replicate the restored warbird versions that we see today at Duxford, Old Warden, Chino, Reno etc al.

[Fnerg]

I'm an awarded live sound engineer, I can handle pretty complex live consoles, I even create my own music in Cubase 11 so I'm familiar with the tools to produce quality sound for the ears. I will agree with the criticisms of this model's sound, it's definitely not the sound I was expecting for a ($50!) P-51D simulation. Can it be fixed? Or, maybe it can't. I want to be blown away by the sound of a Mustang too but, this product doesn't do that. As a trouble shooter by nature, I evaluate the reason why it sounds off to me, I can hear it, and I have a theory why it's not correct. I think it's to do with the process required to achieve the sound. Probably budget related. Specialists need to be paid for their work, and sometimes you need to commission the services of many specialists. The services I'm talking about are the audio recordists who use high quality audio equipment, and the sound engineers at sound studios with elaborate studio processing equipment, and you need a computer programmer who is fluent in Wwise for MSFS, you have to pay for all those services. But most importantly, you need free access to a P-51D. It all starts with a quality source of audio. I imagine it's incredibly expensive (if you're not Microsoft) to record the inside/out start up/run/shutdown of a P-51 Mustang these days, even if you can find one they would agree to pull it out and start it up for you. As you and a small crew run boom stands, expensive microphones and audio equipment all around the million dollar warplane, you're constantly under constraints of time and the critical eye of airport/owner authorities who don't understand your reason. It's a one shot deal and the pressure is enormous. Many months of planning for a 1 hour shot on the tarmac, weather permitting. So the logistics of getting that sound are complicated. It's too bad there wasn't a one company solution to this process.
To me, I consider a couple things. Aeroplane Heaven will always be one of my favorite companies, and I will always support their endeavors as long as I am able. Even if they are still learning and becoming proficient with the latest technologies, their heart is into it, and I like that about a product developer. Over time, it can only get better. Also, if there was enough work to sustain life as a full time aircraft sound recordist up here in frozen Ontario Canada, I would do that.

[bazzar]

100% agree with the HGU-55 helmet request b) please. I have repeated this plea for all Warbirds released so far in MSFS. In the non-combat, modern world of MSFS it makes perfect sense to me that the first priority should be to accurately replicate the restored warbird versions that we see today at Duxford, Old Warden, Chino, Reno etc al.

We like to depict these icons as they were in their heyday. Always have always will. That's our "priority"

Sounds.

This is, perhaps the most hotly discussed and debated subject in this game. With the change to WWise use and production comes a torrent of problems for developers. The learning curve for sound production is extensive to say the least. Sound is subjective too. We have many customers who like our sounds others who don't. WWise appears to have become the "new black" buzzword for people. Many have no idea what it means or could care less. If the writing on the box does not say WWise then the product is c/*!p. End of. Seriously?

Professional WWise sound production is very expensive to buy. Believe me, we are employing the best out there on the DC-3 right now. If we believe the budget and sales potential of a product warrants it, we will use a sound studio without question. But there are two main issues. 1) development time increases by some months and 2) product prices will have to rise to assist with recovering costs. Like the sound studios themselves, we run a business and need to maintain a reasonable profit. Otherwise there is no point in any of this.

If there are sound designers who want to work with us and can do this stuff, please contact me. I am serious.

[ColoKent]

100% agree with the HGU-55 helmet request b) please. I have repeated this plea for all Warbirds released so far in MSFS. In the non-combat, modern world of MSFS it makes perfect sense to me that the first priority should be to accurately replicate the restored warbird versions that we see today at Duxford, Old Warden, Chino, Reno etc al.

I didn't say "HGU-55", as that won't solve the problem, really...Would not work for the 1950s/60s schemes. We'd need an HGU-2/P for that. And BTW...private owners have used the HGU-2/P for decades as well...so we could scratch that itch too. I know many are "BEMHO" (look up the definition if you are interested) over the HGU-55 because is the "latest and greatest bitchin'-a$$" modern-day jet fighter helmet...but unless AH did both the -2/P and the -55, we'd still be stuck where we basically are now...with WWII or current day (albeit sans helmet)....Agree that other than civilians in the 60s, you almost NEVER see a civilian owner not wearing a helmet...

Just my .02 cents.

***EDIT*** Collensr: See there? Didn't make a difference anyway...didn't think it would...

Kent

[bazzar]

"Then comes an individual and do it good. Sued, arrested? fined? Don´t think so. Wonder if it is the law or someone's will, not to picture what they find wrong ."

Beaufighter, you are missing the point entirely.

Before I get into that, take a look at my age and I make these things...so curmudgeon away by all means but you are preaching to the converted my friend.

Now, the simple fact is, that as a developer of add-ons we are not allowed BY LAW to sell any aircraft depicting nazi symbols in most European countries. Our vendors would reject the product anyway as they have to abide by the rules also. Rules they or we did not make.

Freeware repainters are not bound by these laws because their work is FREE and distributed privately, for personal use ONLY.

The Marketplace on MSFS forbids weapons depiction OF ANY KIND and certainly forbids any nazi symbology. So we cannot sell warbirds with weapons or "kill markings" there either. BY LAW.

So, please stop shooting the messengers, getting any product to today's market is hard enough as it is.

[Twice43]

"Believe me, we are employing the best out there on the DC-3 right now."

Gee--z Baz, I'm looking for the 'Swoon' emoticon!
Music to my ears.
As they say in Oz, 'you little ripper!'
T43

[Tom Clayton]

Regarding historically accurate symbology...

There are those of us that want to see the planes we fly painted as they were when they originally flew. There are others of us that would rather see them painted as they would be today. Both desires are valid. But the reality is that some places do not allow certain symbols to be displayed. You can call it whatever you want, but Bazz and other dev's still have to abide by those laws. Fussing about it is about as useful as what this guy is doing. -> Keep doing it, and you'll just end up .

Buy it if you want it. Wait for the "accurate" liveries to be posted if you want to. But please keep this thread civil.

[DennyA]

Regarding the sounds, I did video clips of the Asobo P-51 and AH P-51 and compared them this Kermit Weeks cockpit video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQyDaMtjhfc

Neither sim P-51 sounded just like the real thing, but the Asobo Mustang was more similar on the low-end. I'm pretty sure that just accentuating the bass would give a better impression for both the AH Mustang and the F3F-2.

That said, though, having been lucky enough in my journalism days to spend some time in the cockpits of a few military planes in flight, all the armchair experts judging aircraft audio based on YouTube videos are missing a major aspect of real-life cockpit audio that is not captured by GoPros in cockpits: Real pilots in real planes, especially warbirds, are always wearing headsets. And those headsets isolate a lot of sound from the engine and environment. If you're judging how a plane should sound from cockpit recordings, you're missing a big part of the audio picture.

Also, WWise has become the new buzzword for the "feature bullet" crowd who look for things to complain about online to try to impress others with their expertise. If they can open the canopy and the sound doesn't change, they post "OMG it doesn't have WWise, it's unlistenable" no matter how awesome the sound actually is with the canopy closed (which is, y'know, host most planes are flown...). WWise can add a depth of sound features not found in standard audio in MSFS, but (1) WWise doesn't guarantee that sound is any better, and (2) you can do great audio without it, though it might miss a few bells and whistles.

I actually did open the canopy at about 8,000 feet in a Skywarriors T-34B once (I was getting really queasy from practicing dogfighting with another T-34) and even with the engine in front of me and the air whipping by at 170 mph, it wasn't loud. Because headset. The Continental in a T-34 is no Merlin, but it was plenty loud in the (VHS, it was the 90's!) cockpit recording I have.

Anyway, I'm not saying the AH planes can't use some tweaks in the audio department. I think balancing to add a bit more bass would be helpful and would probably satisfy a lot of the complaints. Interestingly, I though the AH P-51 sounded great on my sim PC (which has a small, cheapo subwoofer) and in headphones, but when I did the comparison, I did it on my video editing PC which is lighter on bass, and I could see how people thought it was a bit weak for a Merlin.

[UnknownGuest12]

Regarding historically accurate symbology...

Buy it if you want it. Wait for the "accurate" liveries to be posted if you want to. But please keep this thread civil.

Of course Tom, civil as always of course, why the remark ?. Everyone was respectful.

Bazzar, ok noticed that we are both getting old, thank you for enlightening me about that and the law about nazi symbols. Not aware about the difference about a commercial firm and an individual dev. Thought the law applied to everyone. it isn´t. Subject closed.
Best regards

[jankees]

I installed it again, and now we can take-off! yay!

[BananaBob]

Never thought I'd feel like the "young" one in a thread, LOL. You guys are really old.

[collensr]

I didn't say "HGU-55", as that won't solve the problem, really...Would not work for the 1950s/60s schemes. We'd need an HGU-2/P for that. And BTW...private owners have used the HGU-2/P for decades as well...so we could scratch that itch too. I know many are "BEMHO" (look up the definition if you are interested) over the HGU-55 because is the "latest and greatest bitchin'-a$$" modern-day jet fighter helmet...but unless AH did both the -2/P and the -55, we'd still be stuck where we basically are now...with WWII or current day (albeit sans helmet)....Agree that other than civilians in the 60s, you almost NEVER see a civilian owner not wearing a helmet...

Just my .02 cents.

***EDIT*** Collensr: See there? Didn't make a difference anyway...didn't think it would...

Kent

It don't stop me trying my friend!

After the terrible P-51D accident here in the UK a few years back most warbird pilots here are either wearing the modern grey kevlar helmets (of the HGU-55 ilk) or the hard shell, brown leather covered helmets which look very similar to that on the stock AH P-51 pilot figure. Critical too to wear fireproof overalls with gloves.

In the US you still see the odd tee shirt/baseball cap warbird jocks (e.g. Kermi) but they are taking a big risk.

[K5083]

I have kind of a wild, off-topic thought on sounds, inspired by reading Fnerg's post. This is not in any way a criticism or suggestion for the AH P-51, just an idea for the medium to long term future.

What if engine sounds were created by simulation instead of by recording RL planes? Build a simulated aero engine, with all the right cylinder sizes and placements, firing order, each little combustion, exhaust size and shape, etc. to simulate the physics of the engine sounds being produced.

I see the following advantages for flight sims:
- Sounds can be created in your basement, no need to go out and record actual aircraft, the model can even be used to synthesize sounds for engines that don't exist in running condition any more, as long as you know the physical parameters
- Model can be endlessly tweaked and improved until you and customers are satisfied without the need to go out and re-record in higher fidelity or whatever
- Any mode of engine operation can be simulated including those not practical to sample in RL (a P-51 engine at 30" and 2400 rpm sitting on the ramp does NOT sound the same as one flying at 300 mph and there is no good way to record the latter)
- Iterative testing would teach a lot about what really matters in simming engine sounds, e.g., does the accuracy of the individual cylinder firing sound really matter or is the sequence and timing in which it is played much more important

And I see drawbacks
- It would take a long time to develop the basic model
- Sounds might have to be compiled into the same looping audio files we are used to because of sim limitations rather than being real-time dynamic in-game
- Some might complain that the end product sounds too synthetic, like in music synthesis where there are some who believe that to synthesize a violin, you still have to start by going out and sampling a real Strad

In a quick google, I see that there are people working on this, especially for driving sims, and even a few commercial products out there. Some of these do not really try to model the engine physics to generate the individual component sounds, e.g. one cylinder firing, but they use algorithms to combine those sampled or otherwise generated sounds for the most realistic effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7APK2RuTzZc
https://scholarsmine.mst.edu/cgi/vie...masters_theses
http://tsugi-studio.com/blog/2018/05...is-of-engines/

August

[huub vink]

Personally I think the Germans and Austrians are entitled to choose their own government which provides them their own rules and legislation. In fact by saying these rules are stupid you are insulting quite some German and Austrian voters. With the increase of extreme right wing extremism it would not surprise me when other countries will follow.

One correction about the Swastika's for the Classics Hangar models by Mathias Pommerien. Classics Hangar has never released any textures which swastikas. I have uploaded textures with swastikas for one sets here at the SOH and for the other sets Alassandro Biaggi made textures available at Wings and Coffee. In both cases Classic Hangar was not involved in any way.

Germans rules are strict and are enforced.

And now back to the Mustang and hopefully a lot of screenshot!

Cheers,
Huub

[Twice43]

Into The Blue Simulations has had a look at it.
He tends to be one of the more reliable reviewers.
T43

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RydECBK82A

[ftl818]

Personally I think the Germans and Austrians are entitled to choose their own government which provides them their own rules and legislation. In fact by saying these rules are stupid you are insulting quite some German and Austrian voters. With the increase of extreme right wing extremism it would not surprise me when other countries will follow.

One correction about the Swastika's for the Classics Hangar models by Mathias Pommerien. Classics Hangar has never released any textures which swastikas. I have uploaded textures with swastikas for one sets here at the SOH and for the other sets Alassandro Biaggi made textures available at Wings and Coffee. In both cases Classic Hangar was not involved in any way.

Germans rules are strict and are enforced.

And now back to the Mustang and hopefully a lot of screenshot!

Cheers,
Huub

A little bit of work with GIMP and a first historical modification has been done (for personal use only). Pick up a digital paint brush and you can do it yourself.

[jankees]

Huub wanted screenshots, so here we go:
jk1082 by JanKees Blom, on Flickr

jk1084 by JanKees Blom, on Flickr

jk1089 by JanKees Blom, on Flickr

jk1091 by JanKees Blom, on Flickr

jk1092 by JanKees Blom, on Flickr

still haven't found the blank textures that are supposed to be in the texture.base folder though..

[keithb77]

Yielded to temptation and it IS VERY nice, spent a happy hour aerobatting around Duxford with another P51D.
Really blows the Asobo Mustang's doors off - sounds? With headphones and remembering you would be wearing a helmet, I think they are OK.


A few niggles hopefully to be sorted
- altimeter calibration - the needles spin around like crazy doing aerobatics
- engine probably too powerful, goes TOO FAST
- handling maybe too easy, the Mustang was an energy fighter, this one turns with a Spitfire
- in multiplayer close-to the flaps are down (TBC that it happens every time)

[Javis]

Fussing about it is about as useful as what this guy is doing. ->

A guy in a bar was doing exactly that all the time, banging his head against the wall. One of the other guests couldn't stand it any longer and walked up to the headbanger : " Why on earth are you banging your head against the wall !!?? " Whereupon the headbanger replied : " Why ??... Because it feels so good when i stop doing it.. ".

[jankees]

I tweaked the metal a bit and redid the anti-glare panel, looks better, don't you think?

jk1141 by JanKees Blom, on Flickr

jk1143 by JanKees Blom, on Flickr

jk1144 by JanKees Blom, on Flickr

jk1146 by JanKees Blom, on Flickr

jk1148 by JanKees Blom, on Flickr

jk1149 by JanKees Blom, on Flickr

I've deleted the Asobo Mustang, although this one sounds like a cement mixer with a bad cold, in all other aspects it's soo much better...and paintable..