The state of FS 2020 now

[joe bob]

I am still a FSX steamer but my wife is harassing me for xmas ideas and if I don't come up with something It will be socks again this year.
I have totally skipped P3D, But I finally gave a look at the new sim and have some questions.

I wanted a carefully considered, well thought out opinion, free from hyperbole and exaggerated accounts of bugs so of course I immediately checked out the reviews on Steam.

In addition to one fellow claiming the Sim turned him into a Newt there is a lot of mention about updates being in game only and very slow. (not steam updates but MS).

Is 2020 different like FSX steam addition was somewhat different than regular FSX? Is getting it on steam different than getting it elsewhere?

It is a given that It is good looking but in what other ways does it differ from FSX? I prefer substance over eye candy if it comes to that.

In what is now a fairly old post Milviz said the SDK was limited and difficult to work with in it's early stage, and limited depth of simulation to basically default type things. I gather that has improved, but how much and is it continuing?

I always suspect MS is wanting a piece of the add on pie, is getting addons any different now than as before?
do you have to be online to be able to run the program?

In general, what else do you think would be good to know before considering purchasing the sim?

Thanks JB

[Moses03]

one fellow claiming the Sim turned him into a Newt

Did he get better?

[azflyboy]

In a nutshell, MSFS is significantly more refined than it was when it launched last summer, but there's still some issues, and Asobo seems to introduce one or two significant bugs every time they release an update, although they're usually patched by a hotfix, and are almost always fixed by the next update.

As far as I'm aware, MSFS is identical wherever you get it, so the only difference with the Steam version is that it requires Steam to run (which seems to be less problematic than the Microsoft Store setup) and Steam adds an extra step if you buy something from the MSFS marketplace, but the prices in the marketplace are identical between the platforms, and Steam is basically invisible 99% of the time.

Asobo/MS have a really dumb system for downloading updates (the program downloads and unpacks each file one at a time, instead of downloading them all and then unpacking everything after the download is done), so updates take significantly longer to download than they probably should.

Aside from the visuals (which are light years past what FSX could do), MSFS also supports more sophisticated sound packages than FSX, and the weather engine has the potential to be significantly better than the stock FSX weather, although it's one of the things that Asobo keeps breaking with various updates. Since MSFS isn't running 20 year old code behind the scenes, it's also much better optimized than FSX/P3d was for modern systems, so many people can get higher framerates than they could with FSX for about the same settings, or they can keep the same framerate and bump up some of the graphics settings.

I'm not a developer, but my understanding is that the SDK is getting better as time goes on (and devs are getting more experience with it), so it seems like developers have managed to work around/figure out most of the SDK limitations, and there's a lot of good stuff released or in development.

For payware addons, it's basically like FSX, but with a new way to buy stuff.

Online stores like simmarket, Orbx and JustFlight all work just fine (and you can drag/drop stuff into MSFS or use installers), but there's also an "MSFS Marketplace". The marketplace has the advantage of being seamless (a couple clicks and whatever you bought will install itself automatically), but it has the disadvantages of comically slow updates (weeks later than simmarket or Justflight get patches), DRM that means you can't alter files on anything bought through it, and it has a ban on displaying weapons, which means that aircraft like the F-15 will have the option to add (non-functional) missiles if bought from outside the marketplace, but not on the marketplace version.

As for the online requirement, much of the scenery is actually downloaded "on the fly", so while MSFS can run offline, the scenery won't look quite as good, although you can download and cache individual areas for offline use if you want to.

For all the flak Asobo gets for (repeatedly) breaking things with updates, they do seem legitimately committed to supporting and improving MSFS, and the overall trend of the sim has been a positive one, with bugs usually being fixed, and community feedback actually being listened and responded to.

[Brytskiva]

If you Fly in FSX before you will like MSFS , it´s like coming home again , and the same feeling but much more a "Life like" one ~ nearly photo real sometimes ! ��

[joe bob]

Thanks fellows, that is exactly what I was looking for

[Tom Clayton]

If you're looking for a GA sim, this is your sim. Most of the default planes are good, but there are free addons that make them even better. There are really good improvement mods for the DA40 and DA62 that bring them quite close to the book values. There are also a couple of mods for the default Bonanza, one of which adds a turbocharger for added performance. The addon market, including the in-game Marketplace, can be a bit of a jungle, but you should be able to find advice and reviews in most of the usual places. I will say this though - get new planes from third party sites if possible, because updates to the Marketplace versions are often delayed. Scenery is safer because it's not as likely to require updates.

There are some addons that are pricey, but well worth it if they're you're flying style. The current DC-6 is one of these. Personally, I'm waiting for the upcoming Kodiak t-prop due out this month, along with a Hondajet that doesn't yet (that I've heard) have a release date.

But... If you're a fan of the modern airliners, your only real choice currently is the A320 with the Fly By Wire improvements. The default 747 and other tubes leave a bit to be desired as far as functionality.

[MZee1960]

Just be sure to "protect" your Community folder (where addons live), before running any MSFS updates. I'm sure everyone running MSFS can more expertly elaborate on this.

For now, I'm still in FSX myself, but eagerly observing these threads in preparation for the 'jump' myself, once pandemic supply chain issues normalize in my region for a new system build.

[dvj]

Notes: If you are into payware, be prepared to pay more for add on aircraft. Prices seem to be climbing at every release. So one must pick and choose wisely. There are some great video reviews on YouTube to help with this. I am finding myself duplicating a few of the aircraft sims I had in FSX and it's getting expensive. Flyby view is still missing, so is playback, but there are ways around this with ad-on's. There are some very nice freeware sceneries and aircraft at flightsim.to. You need to go and check out that site. It's loaded with thousands of free offerings. The great thing about MSFS is not having to fool around with the config files. Most if not all additions go directly into a community folder for easy installation. Lastly, if you are into screenshots, it doesn't get any better. Just look at the examples here in SOH.

[Stearman]

In a nutshell, MSFS is...

Excellent summary, azflyboy. I can't see how to improve it, and agree word by word.

There's only one thing I didn't know, since I don't use military aircraft:

...has a ban on displaying weapons, which means that aircraft like the F-15 will have the option to add (non-functional) missiles if bought from outside the marketplace, but not on the marketplace version.

Now that's really bizarre, to say the least!!

[SkippyBing]

There's only one thing I didn't know, since I don't use military aircraft:

Now that's really bizarre, to say the least!!

It's to ensure they keep the lowest age rating.

[Tom Clayton]

Just be sure to "protect" your Community folder (where addons live), before running any MSFS updates.

It's not so much about protecting that folder but about preventing problems with the updates. Some things that can reside in the Community folder have caused issues and errors with past updates. Because of this, MS/Asobo recommends simply moving it out of the sim before launching the program when an update is due to download. The sim will recreate an empty folder at startup anyway.

[IanHenry]

Do it, I doubt you will regret it. Sometimes the program can be a PITA, particularly when it comes to update's, but compared to FSX it's in a whole new universe.

[Stearman]

It's not so much about protecting that folder but about preventing problems with the updates. Some things that can reside in the Community folder have caused issues and errors with past updates. Because of this, MS/Asobo recommends simply moving it out of the sim before launching the program when an update is due to download. The sim will recreate an empty folder at startup anyway.

We probably agree, but I'd say it differently (if I may):

Since MSFS is by definition an "on-line sim", everyone needs to share the same version, so the sim updates are mandatory. After every update, though, some 3rd party add-ons may become obsolete until their authors update them accordingly, so you may need to uninstall them temporarily, in order to avoid trouble (freezes, CTDs, etc).

Freeware add-ons (or payware not bought from the in-game marketplace) are most likely to be in the so called Community folder, so you simply need to remove them from that folder to "uninstall" them. They usually insist on that removal "before" every sim update (lest you put the blame on the sim itself if problems arise), but to be honest, I normally wait and check every add-on after an update, in order to determine which one to remove, if any.

Admittedly, it's sort of a neverending crazy race between MS/Asobo and 3rd party developers, and keeping up to date with all your add-ons can be a bit exhausting sometimes, but even so, I think it's worth it.

[Stearman]

I am still a FSX steamer but my wife is harassing me for xmas ideas and if I don't come up with something It will be socks again this year.
I have totally skipped P3D, But I finally gave a look at the new sim and have some questions.

Aside from Steam or MS Store, you'll also need to decide which edition to buy (Standard, Deluxe or Premium Deluxe). The sim core is exactly the same in all three editions, only difference being the number of included aircraft and airports.

I'm sure a vast majority will recommend going straight for the Premium Deluxe, even if it costs double the price of the Standard, because there's no real upgrade path for the lesser ones. Once again, then, I'll be here a discordant voice: after more than one year using MSFS, I've found myself using almost exclusively add-on aircraft and airports. Consequently, I could have done perfectly with the Standard version, and I see the difference I paid for the Premium Deluxe as a waste.

Anyhow, to each one his own

[Tom Clayton]

I'm a little bin the same boat. I bought the mid-grade package, but find myself going back to The Bonanza, DA62, and TBM - all three of which are from the standard package. The Baron OK-ish, but for twin props, I find myself going to the Diamond. The only real reason I bought that package was for the C172 with steam gauges, and has issues of its own - even if they are minor. The ammeter reads in reverse, and the OAT gauge face is seriously FUBAR'd. I have performance mods for both the DA62 and Bonanza (that one adds a turbo) that greatly enhance the accuracy and enjoyment.

[Priller]

Aside from Steam or MS Store, you'll also need to decide which edition to buy (Standard, Deluxe or Premium Deluxe). The sim core is exactly the same in all three editions, only difference being the number of included aircraft and airports.

I'm sure a vast majority will recommend going straight for the Premium Deluxe, even if it costs double the price of the Standard, because there's no real upgrade path for the lesser ones. Once again, then, I'll be here a discordant voice: after more than one year using MSFS, I've found myself using almost exclusively add-on aircraft and airports. Consequently, I could have done perfectly with the Standard version, and I see the difference I paid for the Premium Deluxe as a waste.

Anyhow, to each one his own

Yep, couldn't agree more!

Priller

[scotth6]

MSFS is a GREAT sim. I am still flying in P3D and XP11, but flying more and more in MSFS. It is the best sim for GA by far, due to the real time streaming of photo terrain and photogrammetry, and it really can look incredible. My only two cents on technicals, I would highly recommend you get the Steam version. I'm not sure what it is, but Microsoft seem to have made the update process really complicated, particularly when using the store version. I used the store version during the Alpha and the updates were a PITA. The Steam version simplifies it because it tells you when there's an update, and downloads and installs it automatically BEFORE the next time you load the sim. That seems to be the crux of the problem, the order of the update process, as there needs to be a client update done before the sim is started, then when the sim is started the main update takes place. For some reason, the store version has made this really difficult, and many people have many issues every time there is an update.

[keithb77]

Agree, always get the Steam version...UNLESS you think you might go Xbox in future.

I could have done perfectly with the Standard version

I'm not certain but I think the DeLuxe version has extra scenery collateral that has been used by add-on freeware scenery designers...

[stansdds]

I will likely stay with FSX Steam Edition until MSFS is finished. I'm just not that fond of paying to be a beta tester and the frustration of a broken sim after an update sounds like the sort of frustration I can do without. Just my opinion.

[Priller]

I will likely stay with FSX Steam Edition until MSFS is finished. I'm just not that fond of paying to be a beta tester and the frustration of a broken sim after an update sounds like the sort of frustration I can do without. Just my opinion.

I don't think it will ever be finished. I think it is an ever evolving sim tbh.

Priller

[azflyboy]

I will likely stay with FSX Steam Edition until MSFS is finished. I'm just not that fond of paying to be a beta tester and the frustration of a broken sim after an update sounds like the sort of frustration I can do without. Just my opinion.

Microsoft/Asobo have said they're planning a 10 year lifetime for MSFS in terms of updates and such, so it'll probably never be "finished", especially since the plan is to release updates for various countries/regions as Asobo gets better satellite and mesh data over the next few years.

According to the timeline they've laid out, MSFS will basically have all the basic features FSX/P3d did by some time next year (which will see the addition of native support for functioning aircraft carriers, gliders, and helicopters), so it's possible that the sim will be largely done in terms of adding new types of aircraft by next year, but there's probably a lot of "tweaking" that'll happen after that point as well.

[joe bob]

[QUOTE=Stearman;1278781]Aside from Steam or MS Store, you'll also need to decide which edition to buy (Standard, Deluxe or Premium Deluxe). /QUOTE]

That was my next question, As long as it is not like FSX and FSX Gold where there were new features that other developers required in their add ons, I am not sure I would use the premium content enough to justify the additional cost. I wonder if they do add features to the program would they do so evenly across the board.

[azflyboy]

So far, new features haven't been confined to one version, but since the sample size is small at the moment, I wouldn't be shocked if some stuff down the road (like helicopters) ended up requiring purchase of some official DLC to work, but even then, the version of the basic sim won't matter.

[scotth6]

[QUOTE=joe bob;1278855]

Aside from Steam or MS Store, you'll also need to decide which edition to buy (Standard, Deluxe or Premium Deluxe). /QUOTE]

That was my next question, As long as it is not like FSX and FSX Gold where there were new features that other developers required in their add ons, I am not sure I would use the premium content enough to justify the additional cost. I wonder if they do add features to the program would they do so evenly across the board.

I did get the premium deluxe version of MSFS, and I don't regret doing so, BUT, the only difference between the versions are the original extra 10 airports and 5(?) aircraft, so if you don't think you'll be using those aircraft or airports, then it's proabably not worth it. Every time there has been a World Update there are a bunch of new HD airports added, and they are added to all the versions equally. So the difference between the standard, deluxe and premium deluxe versions will remain the same as time goes on. I have already replaced two of the included HD airports with payware versions, but I also use the premium deluxe aircraft quite a bit, and I think the HD airports originally included are well done.

Just have a look of included aircraft and HD airports to decide which version to get, because those original extras remain the only difference between the versions.

[MZee1960]

It's not so much about protecting that folder but about preventing problems with the updates. Some things that can reside in the Community folder have caused issues and errors with past updates. Because of this, MS/Asobo recommends simply moving it out of the sim before launching the program when an update is due to download. The sim will recreate an empty folder at startup anyway.

Well explained, Tom. I was always wondering about this.