Asobo partnering with Andrei Tsvirenko on Antonov AN-2 - Page 2
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Thread: Asobo partnering with Andrei Tsvirenko on Antonov AN-2

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by azflyboy View Post
    Carenado already does something very similar, since their Cessna 182, 170, and 337 are all sold as "C182" or "C337" and neither the Cessna name nor logo ever appear anywhere on the 3d models, documentation, or Carenado website/Marketplace listings.
    Yeah, that's why I specifically mentioned them. Carenado can get away with that. Microsoft's internal lawyers would never even let them try to do that!

    Quote Originally Posted by Josquin View Post
    The AN-2 should be released with Sim Update VIII, on february 22 according to the dev roadmap.
    The dev roadmap is out-of-date. Due to the licensing issues, the AN-2 is postponed and they're releasing the Beech Staggerwing on 2/22 instead.

  2. #27
    People…Antonov is a Ukrainian company based in Kiev. They probably have larger concerns right now than managing a licensing concern for an entertainment product. I too am very much hoping this arrives, but I understand they delay.
    Thats right, but you forgot one important thing. An-2 was not created at a time when Ukraine was free, as its Today (although everyone knows the current situation on the border). An-2 was made by CCCP engineers too. It's hard for me to say who has the rights now for the old productions from Soviet Union times (I remember that Ukraine definitely has the rights to new productions after 1993, it seems), but I'm afraid that in this case the matter is not so obvious because the Antonov plants were divided and the planes at that time were manufactured (parts) in different places of the Soviet Union (was produced also as PZL Mielec Antonov in Poland, so MS can ask here too I suppose).
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  3. #28
    No I’m not “forgetting” anything. The rights to the aircraft in name and appearance are owned by Antonov, in Kyiv, Ukraine.

    MS isn’t going to ask the Russians or the Poles about using the aircraft name or likeness (unless they explicitly use PZL branding for a version for the latter).

    https://carnegiemoscow.org/commentary/75944

    Quote Originally Posted by YoYo View Post
    Thats right, but you forgot one important thing. An-2 was not created at a time when Ukraine was free, as its Today (although everyone knows the current situation on the border). An-2 was made by CCCP engineers too. It's hard for me to say who has the rights now for the old productions from Soviet Union times (I remember that Ukraine definitely has the rights to new productions after 1993, it seems), but I'm afraid that in this case the matter is not so obvious because the Antonov plants were divided and the planes at that time were manufactured (parts) in different places of the Soviet Union (was produced also as PZL Mielec Antonov in Poland, so MS can ask here too I suppose).

  4. #29
    (unless they explicitly use PZL branding for a version for the latter).
    That's not a strange question so honestly, because more An-2 was produced in Poland than in the whole Soviet Union.
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  5. #30
    To paraphrase Drax the Destroyer, at this point things are getting pediatric.

    Even if Antonov is in Sokovia, the fact remains that wherever it is, a corporation like Microsoft isn't going to do a version of the plane without getting permission from the manufacturer if the manufacturer still exists.

    I miss the good old days of gaming in the 80s and 90s when nobody knew about the industry and sim companies could just include all the planes... Kind of ridiculous that 2022 Northrop Grumman can get a licensing fee for use of a plane designed with US government money during WW2, for instance. But those are the laws created by the people we elected...

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by DennyA View Post
    To paraphrase Drax the Destroyer, at this point things are getting pediatric.

    Even if Antonov is in Sokovia, the fact remains that wherever it is, a corporation like Microsoft isn't going to do a version of the plane without getting permission from the manufacturer if the manufacturer still exists.

    I miss the good old days of gaming in the 80s and 90s when nobody knew about the industry and sim companies could just include all the planes... Kind of ridiculous that 2022 Northrop Grumman can get a licensing fee for use of a plane designed with US government money during WW2, for instance. But those are the laws created by the people we elected...
    Im always wondering about the modeling market (models kits), there is lawlessness I suppose because once upon a time I asked a few companies about naming rights and no one ever answered me. I also know that some developers of add-ons with whom Im associated specifically nonmention the name of producer, just to be easier and not have legal problems.
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  7. #32
    Unexpected, but «intellectual rights and design documentation for the legendary Soviet light aircraft An-2, which has been mass-produced since 1949 and is still operated in Russia, CIS countries and China, now belong to the Airbus Military».

  8. #33
    Interesting! I tried to find more information on the Airbus Military connection unsuccessfully, but my search did lead me to the fascinating info that Azerbaijan has been using AN-2s as uncrewed surveillance and attack drones.

  9. #34
    I could imagine Airbus bought everything to offer maintenance service and parts production for the ones still in use?
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  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Josquin View Post
    The AN-2 should be released with Sim Update VIII, on february 22 according to the dev roadmap.
    Now we know more, ETA is 1th of March https://www.flightsimulator.com/febr...opment-update/ .
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  11. #36

  12. #37
    Aw, so that means the Staggerwing that was going to be released in its place is going to be bumped down the calendar? Too bad. I wanted the Staggerwing a lot more.

    Either way, I'm taking a pass on any future Asobo planes until they fix the Fokker F.VII. Oh, wait, that was what I said about the Reno planes ....

    August

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by K5083 View Post
    Aw, so that means the Staggerwing that was going to be released in its place is going to be bumped down the calendar? Too bad. I wanted the Staggerwing a lot more.

    Either way, I'm taking a pass on any future Asobo planes until they fix the Fokker F.VII. Oh, wait, that was what I said about the Reno planes ....

    August
    Luckily, it's not Asobo .
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  14. #39
    I was using "Asobo" as a shorthand for "third party plane rushed to the market unfinished at the behest of Asobo".

    August

  15. #40
    Per today's Q&A, the Antonov has been delayed indefinitely as they (Microsoft) "have lost contact with" Antonov and "frankly, we didn't want to bother them" due to the ongoing invasion of Ukraine.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by ak416 View Post
    Per today's Q&A, the Antonov has been delayed indefinitely as they (Microsoft) "have lost contact with" Antonov and "frankly, we didn't want to bother them" due to the ongoing invasion of Ukraine.
    Thx for info, Im waiting for this however I think there will be a serious problem with the name of company at present. They should do it simply as An-2 or PZL Mielec An-2.
    Unfortunately, the situation in Ukraine is very bad because of Russia, which means that they may never even reach the people who were responsible for it, or it will take a very long time.


    • ANTONOV An-2
    • NANCHANG Y-5
    • PZL-MIELEC An-2
    • PZL-MIELEC Antek
    • AICSA An-2
    • SHIJIAZHUANG Y-5
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  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by YoYo View Post
    ...however I think there will be a serious problem with the name of company at present.
    Antonov is a Ukrainian company, so I don't see any reason to avoid the name.
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  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by YoYo View Post
    Unfortunately, the situation in Ukraine is very bad because of Russia...
    Based on the outcome of another thread, I'm surprised that statement is allowed to stand.

    Not that I disagree with it, mind you - quite the contrary.

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  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Clayton View Post
    Antonov is a Ukrainian company, so I don't see any reason to avoid the name.
    The name is causing problems for two reasons:

    1. They have to get the rights from Antonov, and at this point that’s likely to never happen, or if it does it’ll take years.

    2. The average end user is going to think Soviet-era plane with funny name like Antonov is Russian, and will not look at it further. This came up in the very large Flightsim community of Reddit - a lot of people didn’t bother to learn that Antonov is Ukrainian.

    I would say MS can do a few things:

    1. Give the rights back to AT Simulations and see if they want to release it without liscensing.

    2. Call it a PZL.

    3. Release it as an Antonov in honor of Ukraine with all funds from sales going to some Ukrainian cause.

    4. Sit on it and potentially never release it.

  20. #45
    Point 1 could hopefully be overcome by the right marketing technique, which would include prominent wording advertising the true country of origin.

    Point 2 is "point taken." I keep forgetting that Asobo has had issues with licensing even before the current situation. Personally, I'd rather see it named accurately when it finally comes out than to see a name-game workaround.
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  21. #46
    Microsoft won't do an unlicensed aircraft. Not even worth bringing up. They have more lawyers than many companies have employees -- not an option for MS.

  22. #47
    Good stuff all this. Love flying legends, golden oldies, etc. Cheers.

  23. #48
    I sincerely hope Asobo just gives the rights back to ATSimulations. The aircraft has been finished for some time as far as I understand. It is being withheld solely because Microsoft is the publisher (given the licensing concerns Microsoft has vs ATS.) I think ATSimulations has a lot to gain by having it released through Microsoft, as the sales would likely be astronomically higher, but it's getting kind of ridiculous.

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Clayton View Post
    Antonov is a Ukrainian company, so I don't see any reason to avoid the name.
    Tom, we all know this, but the problem is with the availability of people who are responsible for it due to the current situation, it's reported by Microsoft.
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  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by LostPilot View Post
    I sincerely hope Asobo just gives the rights back to ATSimulations. The aircraft has been finished for some time as far as I understand. It is being withheld solely because Microsoft is the publisher (given the licensing concerns Microsoft has vs ATS.) I think ATSimulations has a lot to gain by having it released through Microsoft, as the sales would likely be astronomically higher, but it's getting kind of ridiculous.
    Microsoft has put money and development time into this product. Doubt they will just give it back to Andrei at this point.

    What strikes me as ridiculous is that you have people in Ukraine who are dying, losing their homes and families and communities and yet you seem more concerned that you don't have a new toy to play with in your video game.

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