Virtual Reality Questions
Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: Virtual Reality Questions

  1. #1
    Member IanHenry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Age
    65
    Posts
    1,609
    Blog Entries
    1

    Virtual Reality Questions

    I know that I'm a little late to VR because in the past I've had quite a few health issues with my eye's and I've always considered it to large a financial commitment to find out if VR is suitable for me. Now VR unit's are at a price that I consider reasonable to look at, I'm talking about the Oculus Quest 2 specifically.

    Do any members here have any experience of using this unit for flight simulation in MSFS, P3D and DCS? Also do you have to use the hand controller's that come with the unit or can you still use your mouse pointer to click on switches etc and lastly, is there any other software that I'm likely to need (I already know that I'll have to buy a ridiculously priced cable)?

    Any help of suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Ian

  2. #2
    I have two of the cheaper headsets, the Samsung Odyssey Plus (was on-sale for just over $200cdn...) and then this year I got the Quest 2. I've used both for MSFS, X-Plane, P3D, and DCS.

    Fit:
    - the Samsung is more comfortable on my face than the Quest (Quest is a little smaller...)
    - both have the VR cover as I didn't like the face cover that comes with them
    - I can use the Samsung longer because of fit, but have used the Quest 2 for a few hours

    Cable:
    - Samsung is always connect but I have the cable go to the ceiling to the computer, so not an issue
    - Quest 2, cable was around $30cdn on Amazon (so not too bad...), BUT also can use wireless which works pretty good
    - haven't noticed much difference (other than battery life...) wirelessly as router is within arms length of the cockpit/headset

    Visuals:
    - both are about the same, at least to me so not sure I can help on that as it doesn't bother me visuals is less than a monitor

    Controls:
    - both work fine without the controllers, in fact my Samsung ones got stolen from my kids as their control is broken for their Samsung

    For the money, the Quest 2 is a very good headset to play on. I haven't had any issues yet with mine.

    Hope this helps.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #3
    Member IanHenry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Age
    65
    Posts
    1,609
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thank you Zoren, that's a big help

  4. #4
    SOH-CM-2023
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Netherlands
    Age
    65
    Posts
    1,232
    Blog Entries
    1
    Without reservations: go to VR! I don't fly any other way anymore. It will cost you some time and effort (about things that you don't even think of now) but it is a revalation (I've flown quite a few 'real' planes). I don't use a pointer but just the mouse.

  5. #5
    I'm using an old Lenovo Explorer and I will try to express a balanced opinion from my sim experience from the last two (three actually...) years with that helmet:

    The immersion is unbeatable. Forget anything about TrackIR or such, this is a totally new experience. The sensations are really hard to describe. Keep in mind, you get a distinct picture for the left and the right eye, so your brain will finally be able to rebuild a real 3D scene, which is impossible with a normal screen+TrackIR. But maybe you have already tried a VR helmet in the past, so you know already about all of that. So instead, let me go for the negative points about VR... knowing that none of these negative points managed to get me out of VR yet

    • The helmets have a limited display resolution. What is close to you will be reasonnably readable, but reading small numbers will be hard anyways, unless you get your head closer to them (a VR helmet is 6 DOF like a trackIR).
    • Out of the cockpit, everything within medium to long distance will be blurry. Of course the most recent helmets, with higher resolutions, will limit this a bit. But these helmets are crazy expensive and require an NVidia 3xxxx minimum.
    • Your first flights will give you nausea. Get ready for it. However, you WILL get used to it. Keep in mind, nausea is linked to two main things: low FPS and fast head movements. Moving your head slowly will greatly help. Keeping your settings to a reasonnable level to maintain good FPS will help even more.
    • VR is heavy on the hardware. You will need to lower the graphic settings. However, due to low visibility of distant objects, this won't be such an issue.

  6. #6
    I have a Rift S and wouldn't fly without it now. I had a Rift CV1 before that but it died after about two years of heavy use.
    I would love to get a Quest 2 but I don't like the whole Facebook integration BS, I can still use the Rift S until 2023 before I have to get a Facebook account to continue using an Oculus product so there maybe something better that non Facebook at a reasonable price by the.

    As for the whole motion sickness thing that varies a lot from one person to the next. I've never suffered from it at all not even on the first time I tried VR, some people can never get over it and will want to puke after a couple of minutes. You'll have to suck it and see.
    If its a concern I would advice finding some way to at least try VR first before investing your money. There's nothing worse than getting excited over a new thing blowing a load of money on it and then ending up never being able to use it.

    A 30xx series card isn't really necessary either, I run a 9900K with a 2080 Ti and get 40+ FPS with no stutters with fairly high but not ultra settings in VR. That's framerates I could only dream of in 2D mode when FSX first released.
    Asus ROG Maximus XI Hero
    i9-9900K
    32Gb Corsair Vengeance Pro DDR4 3200MHz
    MSI RTX 2080Ti Ventus
    Corsair H115i Cooler
    Corsair RM850X PSU
    Phanteks Evolv X case
    Asus VG32G Monitor 2560x1440
    Win 10
    Oculus Quest 2
    Logitech G29
    Saitek X56
    Saitek Pro Pedals
    Saitek Cessna Trim Wheel

  7. #7
    SOH-CM-2023
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Netherlands
    Age
    65
    Posts
    1,232
    Blog Entries
    1
    I have a combination of VR with a motion platform and it is absolutely fantastic. I experiencd no motion sickness but some of the people I let try the platform plus VR did. As Dangerous Beans said: try it out somehow before committing money to it.

  8. #8
    Senior Administrator PRB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    MO (KSUS)
    Age
    61
    Posts
    9,410
    I ordered the HP Reverb G2 from Amazon. The unit arrived yesterday. After hooking it up, Windows 10 found it, installed what it needed, all that went fine. Launched Steam, it “went “hey, you got a VR unit, you need to install SteamVR!” Did that. No issues. The test environments that you run when setting up the headset gave me real concern. The resolution was not what I expected. I knew it would not be as good as my 4K monitor, but was kind of shocked at how bad it was. I have been watching YouTube videos and apparently there is a “SteamVR Settings” page where you can make adjustments to various things, including resolution, but I haven’t figured out how to get to the SteamVR settings page.

    In FS, you have to assign a key to “VR Camera Reset” or you can’t go into VR mode at all. Did that, and also assigned a joystick button to “Toggle VR Mode”.

    In Flight Sim: After the disappointment of the resolution, I was prepared to be disappointed with the flight sim experience, but that’s not what happened. The sensation of actually sitting inside the tiny cockpit of a Piper Cub was amazing. It was "right there". And it was the correct size: tiny, the exact same size as a real Piper Cub. Looking around was "natural". I'm used to using the hat switch on the joystick to "look around", where the world rotates instead of your head. When I first "looked around" using VR, my brain initially went "oh oh, it's not working: nothing ‘moved’!" But I was just looking around. The planet should stay put when I do that...”

    Just completed test flight number 2. Still don't like the resolution AT ALL. Still haven't found the Steam settings either. But the experience is so profound that I will continue to use it, while trying to figure out if its possible to get the resolution better. I flew the Cessna 170 this time. I turned my head to look out the left window, and there are scratches and dirt on the window. I leaned toward the glass and focused on the scratches. They were right in front of my nose! I reached out to touch the glass but it wasn't really there! That was weird.

    I’m flying short flights, no more than 10 minutes at a time. The damn thing is making me sea sick if I make hard banks. That should get better over time. Your brain is absolutely convinced something is actually happening. It’s remarkable.

    The fact that you can’t see the keyboard, mouse, joystick, etc., is a real issue. It would be a bit of a hassle flying a “switchology intensive” plane with this thing on. But it’s loads of fun with a bug smasher...
    MB: GIGABYTE GA-X299 UD4 PRO ATX
    CPU: Intel(R) Core™ Processor i9-10900X Ten-Core 3.7GHz
    MEM: 64GB (8GBx8) DDR4/3000MHz Quad Channel
    GPU: RTX 3080 Ti 12GB GDDR6
    OS: Win 10 Pro 64bit
    HP Reverb G2

  9. #9
    Borrow someone's first-generation HTC Vive or Oculus Rift CV1. Fly MSFS in that.

    Then go back to the Reverb G2. You'll appreciate it that it's among the best in VR image quality and a huge improvement over previous generations.

    Because VR has to (1) update a pair of 2000-pixel wide images, and (2) do that at 60-90 fps to get a good experience, there has to be a resolution compromise to get immersive performance. if they crammed a couple of 4K displays in there to give you the sharpness that I guess you were expecting not having experienced first- and second-gen VR goggles, you'd probably be looking at 10 fps in MSFS...

    You can play with the various VR settings, though, and find a good compromise between image quality and performance. With my RTX 3080, I can push many of the VR settings way over what MSFS defaults to. I have the rendering pushed from 80 to 100%, and many of the effects that default to Off or Medium in MSFS set to High or even Ultra, and I can still maintain smooth updates. FPS actually drop into the 40-ish range sometimes, but as of the latest sim update, those 40 fps are now smooth instead of jerky, so it still feels good and realistic.

    So if you're flying with the sim defaults, tweaking the VR detail settings in MSFS and in the OpenXR Dev Tools for WMR app can make things look a lot better, depending on the PC you're using the G2 with.

  10. #10
    Also, MSFS doesn't use SteamVR with the Reverb G2, it uses OpenXR/Windows Mixed Reality.

    To tweak advanced settings, you use this app:
    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/op...y/9n5cvvl23qbt

    I'm sure the Mixed Reality Portal got installed when you set up the headset, but just in case:
    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/mi...ot:overviewtab

    For sims that DO use SteamVR, you need Windows Mixed Reality for SteamVR installed as well:
    https://store.steampowered.com/app/7...y_for_SteamVR/

    But anyway, even if you bought your copy of MSFS from Steam instead of from MS, you still don't use Steam for the VR aspects. Use the settings in the Mixed Reality portal and the OpenXR Dev Tools to tweak things if you want to go further than tweaking them in the sim themselves.

    There is a ridiculous amount of info in this thread on optimizing MSFS with the G2. I think a lot of it is overkill, but if you really want to dive into technical minutia instead of just doing trial-and-error.

    https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t...-g2-wmr/342582

    The good news on the OpenXR/SteamVR/Oculus stuff is that Oculus is moving to OpenXR, and SteamVR now supports OpenXR, so hopefully in the next year or two all of the VR stuff will finally be running on a single standard. Right now it's like the wild west before Direct3D.

  11. #11
    Member IanHenry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Age
    65
    Posts
    1,609
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thank you everyone for all this valuable information, it really is a great help.
    A couple more questions, if I may
    How does VR react when you switch to external view and is the Reverb G2 a better option than the Oculus Quest 2?

    I think I've found the answer to the Quest vs Reverb G2 question with this video:

    https://youtu.be/ny_OPsxHQmU

    It looks at the headsets in DCS at 13:50. The resolution of the Reverb is without doubt the best of the three that are being compared, interestingly the most expensive headset, the Index is the worst of the three!
    I do believe the Quest has had a number of update's since this video was produced, including increasing the refresh rate but obviously that's not going to help the resolution.


    Regards,
    Ian

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by IanHenry View Post
    Thank you everyone for all this valuable information, it really is a great help.
    A couple more questions, if I may
    How does VR react when you switch to external view and is the Reverb G2 a better option than the Oculus Quest 2?


    Regards,
    Ian
    I never tested Quest 2, however I fly VR only more the last 2 years and I cant imagine now to back to 2D monitor, LOL. For me G2 is the best option on the market now: resolution, price-quality ratio and no compatibility issues.
    My controllers are in the wardrbe, I don't need it. Which GPU do you have?

    Here you can find my review and guide, use translate button if you want to read it:
    http://yoyosims.pl/poradnik-vr-wmr-konfiguracja
    http://yoyosims.pl/hp-reverb-wmr-recenzja
    Webmaster of yoyosims.pl.

    Win 10 64, i9 13900 KF, RTX 4090 24Gb, RAM64Gb, SSD M.2 NVMe, Predator XB271HU res.2560x1440 27'' G-sync, Sound Blaster Z + 5.1, TiR5 [MSFS, P3Dv5, DCS, RoF, Condor, IL-2 CoD/BoX] VR fly only: Meta Quest Pro

  13. #13
    SOH-CM-2024 jmig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Lafayette, LA
    Age
    76
    Posts
    5,988
    Blog Entries
    6
    I ordered the HP Reverb G2 from Amazon. The unit arrived yesterday. After hooking it up, Windows 10 found it, installed what it needed, all that went fine. Launched Steam, it “went “hey, you got a VR unit, you need to install SteamVR!” Did that. No issues. The test environments that you run when setting up the headset gave me real concern. The resolution was not what I expected. I knew it would not be as good as my 4K monitor, but was kind of shocked at how bad it was. I have been watching YouTube videos and apparently there is a “SteamVR Settings” page where you can make adjustments to various things, including resolution, but I haven’t figured out how to get to the SteamVR settings page.

    Paul, if you wear corrective lenses AKA Glasses, there is a company called VR Wave that will make snap in correctives lens. You send them you glasses prescription and they will send you the lens a few weeks later. Mine cost me about $70 and did help some, but not perfectly. Buy HP Reverb G2 Prescription Lenses Adapter Online – VR Wave (vr-wave.store)

    To the OP, I use to have a projector image appox. 4X8 feet. I then went to a 54" HD TV, How I have to VR headset and don't fly any other way. I will use the monitor and big TV to set up controls and other settings. Then it is into VR.
    John

    ***************************
    My first SIM was a Link Trainer. My last was a T-6 II


    AMD Ryzen 7 7800 X3D@ 5.1 GHz
    32 GB DDR5 RAM
    3 M2 Drives. 1 TB Boot, 2 TB Sim drive, 2 TB Add-on Drive, 6TB Backup data hard drive
    RTX 3080 10GB VRAM, Meta Quest 3 VR Headset

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by IanHenry View Post
    How does VR react when you switch to external view and is the Reverb G2 a better option than the Oculus Quest 2?
    If you switch to external view, you get a cool 3D external view of your plane. It's like you're watching from a jetpack outside the plane or something.

    As for Quest 2 vs Reverb G2, it depends on your usage. I actually have both headsets. If you're purely talking using it for simulations, the Reverb G2 is the superior choice. Its image is noticeably sharper.

    If you're looking to do general VR stuff, though, it's more complicated. The Quest 2's image isn't as sharp as the Reverb G2's, but it's definitely better than the Oculus Rift S I had before it, and it looks pretty good overall. But the Quest 2 has a couple of advantages over the Reverb G2:

    1) It functions as a stand-alone headset -- it can run without a PC -- and there are some awesome VR titles for it. They're generally a bit simpler than PC-based titles, but there's a lot to be said for VR experiences where you can walk all around the room with no cable tethering you to a PC. It's great for exercise apps, etc.

    2) It's compatible (without using hacks, like needed for the G2) with Oculus-exclusive content, such as some pretty cool Star Wars games.

    If you're looking for something for the whole family to use, or you want to explore the whole breadth of VR titles outside of sims, the Quest 2 is the more versatile choice. If you want a headset exclusively for sims, the Reverb G2's image quality edge makes it the logical option.

  15. #15
    Member IanHenry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Age
    65
    Posts
    1,609
    Blog Entries
    1
    Again many thanks to everyone for your helpful information.
    It looks very much like the HP Reverb G2 is the better option, the only problem is that there doesn't seem to be any here in the UK and it looks like that's been the case for 3 months or more!
    My GPU is an Nvidia RTX 2070 Super, I'm hoping that will be powerful enough to run it.


    Ian

  16. #16
    SOH-CM-2024 jmig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Lafayette, LA
    Age
    76
    Posts
    5,988
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by IanHenry View Post
    Again many thanks to everyone for your helpful information.
    It looks very much like the HP Reverb G2 is the better option, the only problem is that there doesn't seem to be any here in the UK and it looks like that's been the case for 3 months or more!
    My GPU is an Nvidia RTX 2070 Super, I'm hoping that will be powerful enough to run it.


    Ian
    That is the GPU I run. It works fine. for me.
    John

    ***************************
    My first SIM was a Link Trainer. My last was a T-6 II


    AMD Ryzen 7 7800 X3D@ 5.1 GHz
    32 GB DDR5 RAM
    3 M2 Drives. 1 TB Boot, 2 TB Sim drive, 2 TB Add-on Drive, 6TB Backup data hard drive
    RTX 3080 10GB VRAM, Meta Quest 3 VR Headset

  17. #17
    Senior Administrator PRB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    MO (KSUS)
    Age
    61
    Posts
    9,410
    Progress has been made. I didn't know there was a complete set of graphics settings just for VR. On my computer they were all set to the minimum possible settings. Anti-aliasing was set to OFF. No wonder it looked like ****! I've been tweaking on them, and the results are good. I've set most of them to the same as those on the "PC" side, and still have very good frame rates.
    MB: GIGABYTE GA-X299 UD4 PRO ATX
    CPU: Intel(R) Core™ Processor i9-10900X Ten-Core 3.7GHz
    MEM: 64GB (8GBx8) DDR4/3000MHz Quad Channel
    GPU: RTX 3080 Ti 12GB GDDR6
    OS: Win 10 Pro 64bit
    HP Reverb G2

  18. #18
    Member IanHenry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Age
    65
    Posts
    1,609
    Blog Entries
    1
    Again, thank you everyone for all your input, it's helped a great deal, following this I think I'm going to go with the HP Reverb G2, when they become available again in the UK.


    Many thanks,
    Ian

  19. #19
    This has been really useful. I had a go on my sons Quest 2 a month or so ago. Getting it connected was a complete pain in the backside, but eventually it worked. I felt sick afterwards and it put me off using it again although the immersion experience was incredible. Sounds like i need more air time to overcome the nausea.

  20. #20
    Member IanHenry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Age
    65
    Posts
    1,609
    Blog Entries
    1
    I had a HP Reverb G2 delivered yesterday and I've found it quite a steep learning curve, but I've kind of got it running (I find the Mixed Reality portal really weird).
    Flight simming in VR is breath-taking, particularly DCS, the F-14 cockpit is just so real looking.

    Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions, I probably wouldn't have got the Reverd without them

  21. #21
    Another has been seduced to the dark-side. There is no going back now...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by IanHenry View Post
    I had a HP Reverb G2 delivered yesterday and I've found it quite a steep learning curve, but I've kind of got it running (I find the Mixed Reality portal really weird).
    Flight simming in VR is breath-taking, particularly DCS, the F-14 cockpit is just so real looking.

    Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions, I probably wouldn't have got the Reverd without them
    Great and welcome in the freak's Club !
    Webmaster of yoyosims.pl.

    Win 10 64, i9 13900 KF, RTX 4090 24Gb, RAM64Gb, SSD M.2 NVMe, Predator XB271HU res.2560x1440 27'' G-sync, Sound Blaster Z + 5.1, TiR5 [MSFS, P3Dv5, DCS, RoF, Condor, IL-2 CoD/BoX] VR fly only: Meta Quest Pro

Members who have read this thread: 0

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •