DFS 230 glider ?

[1940WarGamer]

Has anyone considered creating a model of the DFS 230 glider for CFS3/ETO? I'd really like to design a few missions centered around the gliderborne assault on Eben Emael, the Gran Sasso raid, etc., but to the best of my knowledge, there is no DFS 230 model available for CFS3/ETO/MAW/etc. Any thoughts?

[gecko]

Cool idea, would be good for MAW too I think, weren't gliders used at Crete? As far as I know there isn't one for CFS3.

[1940WarGamer]

They may have been used on Crete. I'll have to check my history books. I'd guess they may have also been used ferrying stuff to North Africa and Sicily. As far as I can tell there is no version available for any of the CFS3, ETO, or MAW versions. Hopefully that can change. There is a DFS 230 available for one of the other sims (FS2000 or some similar such), but as far as I know there's no way to modify them to work in CFS3-based sims. I could be wrong, but I think it has to be done from scratch.

I did try running a really basic test mission with the Horsa glider substituting for the DFS230, but it's got such totally different handling characteristics that it's a completely inaccurate simulation. Glide ratio is about 7 to 1, vs 11 to 1; the best landing distance I was able to achieve (from touchdown to full stop) was 150+ meters, instead of the 50 meters or so that the DFS230 is credited with; etc.

[sixstrings5859]

Sounds exciting ! Would be a great addition to CFS3 ! Thanks for taking this on. Regards,Scott

[gecko]

You are correct, there is no direct way of converting a model for CFS3 use. If there is a nice model for one of the other sims, perhaps the author might be willing to share a source file. I'm not a modeler, but as I understand it, the model needs to be pretty complete and of decent quality, otherwise it can be more work to convert than just building from scratch.

[sdsbolt]

Looked at the DFS230 shows up in several FS sims and its pretty much how Dan describes it. A modeler can convert and pop out a cfs3 model inside of an hour but the little things get you. The model does not seem to have a VC though I suppose a simple one can be made. There seems to be some mesh warping around the wing and horizontal tips that causes texture and smoothing issues. In fairness it probably looks good in the sim it was modeled for as the screenshots are very nice.


Other than that its a simple but well made model. There are very few animations to deal with as there is no prop or landing gear or exhaust effects.


Just checking it out though I have no plans on working on this model. Also I cant speak about converting the airfile so that's probably a project in itself

[1940WarGamer]

@ Sixstring5859, I'm not saying I'm taking this on myself, rather soliciting some of the more talented folks in this forum to consider giving it a go. Begging, pleading, maybe bribing if that's not against the TOS? LOL I don't have the technical skills and probably not the necessary software myself.

@ Sdsbolt, so then it is possible to import the model itself? But not the airfile - is that like the flight model? By VC, does that mean virtual cockpit?

[sdsbolt]

so then it is possible to import the model itself?

The 3d model can be imported but still needs work with gmax to function properly in cfs3. This particular model was made with gmax so it might be possible to get source file from author and cut out some steps.

But not the airfile - is that like the flight model?

You are correct. I don't know if that can be converted . I think you would have to make a damage file also. The damage file could be a converted from another cfs3 glider.

By VC, does that mean virtual cockpit?

Yup and that's where we spend most of our time in cfs3 so its best if it looks decent.


Clive is your guy, he's done this many times with FS models


Steve

[Pat Pattle]

The airfile and cfg can be used in cfs3, just a change of header is required.

The modelling, even at my poor standard, can take an awfully long time.

You may be lucky and find a Gmax source with a 3d pit, but it's still a long way from getting it in sim.

[1940WarGamer]

So I guess my first step is to contact the person who built the FS2004 version, say that I'd like to do a CFS3 version, and see if she (I think it was a her) will give permission and access to the source file.

Steve, I agree that a decent virtual cockpit will be important, actually more important than how pretty the exterior looks. I personally would be content with a fugly model that has a good cockpit and accurate airfile. It just would be necessary to make the model look decent enough that others are satisfied with it when offered for download here.

Thanks for the advice Steve. What's Clive's user name so I can message him?

@ Pat Pattle, thanks for the info. So if I understand correctly the airfile can be imported and used in CFS3 with just a minor modification. Can you talk me through that, please? Also, what's the cfg?

I've done some 3d modeling over the years in a completely different genre, but never worked with Gmax. Is there a freeware version Gmax modeler that will get the job done? Initially I probably wouldn't want to fuss with the model any more than necessary just to get it useable in CFS3 no matter how it looks. Then maybe work on a nicer version for download afterwards. I'd spend most of my initial modeling effort on the cockpit. I've seen a few photos of the cockpit, so it probably shouldn't be too hard using those as reference.

[1940WarGamer]

Oh, Pat Pattle is Clive, right? Sorry. It's been years and I forgot who's who with regards to user names. (I used to be a member here several years ago, but haven't been active in years. Just recently rejoined with a new account. Couldn't remember the old one.)

[sdsbolt]

Gmax is free just make sure it comes with the registration code as it is no longer supported. You also need the Aircraft, vehicle, building SDK here in the SH CFS3 library.


The FS9/FSX DFS230 by Manuele Villa has a pretty generous freeware license so I am sure you are fine to edit the model. I would try to contact modeler to see if you can get gmax source as that is the easiest way. I never seem to have luck getting source files as many builders are no longer in contact or have lost the files or just don't feel comfortable sharing them or used FSDS for the build . Good luck! Maybe there is another model you are looking at?


In the meantime I would also make sure you can create a cfs3 standalone model from another cfs3 glider for testing.


It is a fair amount of work to do all this but the good news is that you can export something into the game pretty quick to inspire you to do the rest.


There is some good info here on setting up gmax for cfs3
https://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforu...CFS3-modelling


Steve

[Pat Pattle]

"@ Pat Pattle, thanks for the info. So if I understand correctly the airfile can be imported and used in CFS3 with just a minor modification. Can you talk me through that, please? Also, what's the cfg?"

Can you post a link to the model please and I'll show you which bits to copy over.

Cheers,
Clive

[1940WarGamer]

Can you post a link to the model please and I'll show you which bits to copy over.

Cheers,
Clive

Thank you Clive! I apologize for not replying sooner, but I've been away from my computer for a few days. I will post link asap. Right now I've got it downloaded, but still don't know what program to open the .air file with.

Mike

[1940WarGamer]

This should be the link to download the model:
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...d+205&id+11071

Copied the url by hand, so hope it works. If not I can just send you the zip file if you have an email for me to send it to.

[1940WarGamer]

D230_v02.ZIPOops, looks like the link doesn't go to the model itself, just the library. Let's see if I can attach the file directly here.

[Pat Pattle]

Not to worry, I'll find it.
I don't think that you need to edit the airfile but if you want to have a look inside, search for Air Ed. For the. cfg file use notepad.
Have you obtained the Gmax source?

[1940WarGamer]

The zip attachment in my previous post should be the complete model including air file and cfg's. I'll have to look for Air Ed. program. Any changes to make to the cfg file(s)? You mentioned changing "headers" in .air and .cfg. Not necessary for the .air file then?

I'm going to ask the original modeler about the gmax source file now. Just wanted to make sure I had everything else I would need, (including your kind help), first.

I noticed that the FS2004 model is in MDL format, while CFS3 requires M3D format. So that's what I have to convert, right? and I guess it's easier to do from the original Gmax source.

Just out of curiosity, as an exercise to help me wrap my brain around it - If I were to take an existing CFS3/ETO glider, say the Horsa, and swap in the .air file from the DFS 230, (changing model name references or whatever if needed), would I then have a Horsa that flies in CFS3/ETO with the flight characteristics of a DFS230? It would be an interesting first step just to get a feel for things, before actually starting the tougher job of remodeling in gmax.

Mike

[hairyspin]

The flight model is actually both .air and .cfg files, but editing the .cfg is easy. The obvious differences are the contact points which govern how the model sits on the ground - five feet above it or half-underground isn’t usually acceptable.

FYI, a .mdl file has been compiled ​from the Gmax source, so it’s not just a file conversion job to make a .m3d version. If you know 3ds Max you’ll recognise Gmax’s methods - it’s a cut-down version of Max. Good luck, I hope the modeller answers you.

[Pat Pattle]

Hi Mike, yes if you put the DFS flight model into the Horsa it would fly like a DFS, sort of. The c of g and the ground contact points will be different so it may behave oddly.
If you can obtain the Gmax source life will be a whole lot easier!

[1940WarGamer]

Thanks for the additional info. I messaged the modeler yesterday. As soon as I hear back from him I'll let you know.

[sdsbolt]

looks like you'll need the gmax source on this one as the author has forbidden .mdl decompiling

[1940WarGamer]

It's been over 2 weeks since I messaged the original modeler, and I have received no reply thus far. Also, he does not appear to have any activity in SOH since 2019. Don't know if he's still around at all. Not sure how to proceed, but I would at least like to do a preliminary test of the flight model in CFS3 by using the ETO Horsa glider as a test bed (swapping in the DFS230 .air file and .cfg file as we previously discussed). Clive, can you talk me through that please? Let me know what lines if any I need to modify? Thanks.

If I find that the flight model works reasonably well in CFS3/ETO then maybe I can go the next step and figure out how to tackle scratch-building a DFS-230 model in Gmax.

[Pat Pattle]

Hi Mike,

Have you tried posting on the FSX and FS2004 forums to find if anyone knows of his whereabouts?

For the FM you need to modify the cfg as below.

Then copy the dfs230p.air file into the Horsa folder and rename it the same as the Horsa one. Open it with the aired (or similar) proggy and edit the references from the DFS to the Horsa. That should be about it.

[NachtPiloten]

Type in the name in facebook, maybe you'll find him there...