Asobo and Oliver (Not) Fischer JU-52 for MSFS Released 9/28

[YoYo]

Right, I get wanting to fly a historically accurate livery. In combat scenarios, I see the appeal in flying historically accurate combat missions in their appropriate aircraft and markings. That I understand very well.

What I don't understand is why people choose to fly aircraft sporting Nazi imagery outside of some sort of combat or other scenario set during the period of Nazi Germany, that's all. There are historically accurate liveries that were not used by Nazi's as well. So why choose to represent the Nazi's?

As Alan said, if that's what you are into then please, by all means go right ahead. I'm not saying this repaint shouldn't exist or anything like that and I'm not judging anyone, I genuinely just don't understand the appeal.

But don't remember it wasnt only civil transport plane .... and I'm sure you know it very well so why not "simulate" for example "trips" from Stalingrad boiler outside ... wihout any shot? It depends who likes what, if he doesn't use it to promote something, it's his business I suppose.
We can talk about red star also and generally prohibit the use of symbols of totalitarian states because they led to the deaths of millions but I think we are sitting in a simulation to be a bit above politics and rather talk about the history and reality of models and what they represent. At least I think so.

[UnknownGuest12]

We can talk about red star also and generally prohibit the use of symbols of totalitarian states because they led to the deaths of millions but I think we are sitting in a simulation to be a bit above politics and rather talk about the history and reality of models and what they represent. At least I think so.

Totally agree. This is not about politics. And, please, this subject is the subject of a thousand times, there´s no need to talk about it once more. Not for me anyway...
best regards

[ak416]

But don't remember it wasnt only civil transport plane .... and I'm sure you know it very well so why not "simulate" for example "trips" from Stalingrad boiler outside ... wihout any shot? It depends who likes what, if he doesn't use it to promote something, it's his business I suppose.
We can talk about red star also and generally prohibit the use of symbols of totalitarian states because they led to the deaths of millions but I think we are sitting in a simulation to be a bit above politics and rather talk about the history and reality of models and what they represent. At least I think so.

Well, I appreciate you actually trying to answer my question rather than insult me, so thank you for your insight. To me, it's impossible to separate the Nazi Party from their politics. The Luftwaffe of that era represented the Nazi Party and the Nazi Party represented their political ideologies. Which is why I don't really see the appeal of immersing yourself in something that represents and stands for something so terrible, outside of a strictly historical sense. I play IL-2 and don't really have any issues with it because it's an appropriate theater for that sort of thing but in my opinion it just feels out of place in something like Flight Simulator, which is very much a modern day representation of the world.

Again, I'm not saying anything should be prohibited or that this repaint shouldn't exist or that you shouldn't use it. But if what you are essentially doing is flying from point A to point B, regardless of the livery, why choose to represent the Nazi's instead of flying a civilian airline? That's what I don't understand.

[Alan_A]

But don't remember it wasnt only civil transport plane .... and I'm sure you know it very well so why not "simulate" for example "trips" from Stalingrad boiler outside ... wihout any shot?

One possible response is, "Right - no shots fired - just peacefully bringing supplies and ammunition for the Einsatzgruppen." If only to point out that these matters are a bit more complicated than combat/noncombat.

Another response - to another poster - might be that to refer to these matters as "politics" really doesn't do them justice. I don't think "politics" accurately describes my grandfather's mother getting a bullet in the back of her head.

Finally, I'll point out again that it's wrongheaded to say that those of us who don't fly the Swastika are against historical authenticity. I think I've just provided enough of it to cause discomfort. Which was, you know, my goal. Because... I'm not trying to censor anything or to object to anyone's painting anything. It's a big world and people get to do all kinds of things. Others, like me can opt out. Think of it as the marketplace in action! But ever marketplace imposes costs, and one of the costs in this one is that people with my background get to make other people uncomfortable. It's a kind of division of labor. Fair enough?

For what it's worth, I think the paint is excellent and should be available to anyone who wants to use it.

[Tom Clayton]

It's up to individuals as to whether they want to fly a livery with some historical symbol. I have my own personal feelings about them, but I'm not discussing them here. Just remember that the at least the Ju-52 was used extensively in civilian use after the fall of the Third Reich, and without the swastika. Also remember - that particular symbol was co-opted by the Nazi party, but is actually a few thousand years old. Even the name isn't German - it comes from Sanskrit.

[YoYo]

MSFS is not a civilian simulator only from user's perspective. It is an airplanes simulator. Can anyone guarantee that the TacPack MSFS will not come out here someday? So I don't see the difference if someone wants to fly a war plane with the right markings with the right mods. There is no difference between MSFS or IL-2 and DCS on this topic. The only difference is that we have better-made weapons, campaigns and interactions there (I know people who only have Yak-52 in DCS and they fly civil and peaceful for example). I spent a lot of time with the TacPack in P3D3-4.5 (and before that in FSX) and I had a lot of fun, sometimes even better (than in DCS /IL-2) because you could do "missions" in the real world where it happened. The historical truth is one thing, the popularization of the political system is another, another matter and this should not be mixed up. I think it's worth ending this topic because it goes in a different direction than what this topic is about. So EOT from my side.

[Alan_A]

It's up to individuals as to whether they want to fly a livery with some historical symbol. I have my own personal feelings about them, but I'm not discussing them here. Just remember that the at least the Ju-52 was used extensively in civilian use after the fall of the Third Reich, and without the swastika. Also remember - that particular symbol was co-opted by the Nazi party, but is actually a few thousand years old. Even the name isn't German - it comes from Sanskrit.

I agree with you almost 100 percent - "almost," because unfortunately the ancient-symbol thing really doesn't hold water anymore. Sometime legitimate things are taken over to the point where the original meaning is lost. Realistically, no one is going to look at a Swastika on an airplane and say "Hinduism!"

Also unfortunately, the symbol is not only historic but also current and "live," which means that reactions are likely to be energized.

The Ju-52 has a complex history with lots of different associations, so these discussions were going to come up (and have, on the MSFS forums, too). As an American, I don't have the positive associations with the airplane that European friends do - I'm referring to civilian and vintage service, by the way - so it's been an interesting and worthwhile experience to read about that.

I have to say also, in passing, that Germany has done an admirable job of acknowledging and documenting is past - it's really a model in that regard. I follow the Internationale Maritimes Museum posts on Facebook (or I did, when there was a Facebook.. ) and their treatment of 1933-45, when it comes up, is always admirably comprehensive and responsible.

Speaking of responsible, I think we all are, here. So if we're going to have such conversations, this is good company to have them in.

[Tom Clayton]

Sometime legitimate things are taken over to the point where the original meaning is lost. Realistically, no one is going to look at a Swastika on an airplane and say "Hinduism!"

Also unfortunately, the symbol is not only historic but also current and "live," which means that reactions are likely to be energized.

There are many symbols like that. I was just trying to give a little perspective on one item. There are still a great many people that look at ancient Asian artwork and get all hot and bothered because there's a swastika, or even a sauwastika (a mirrored swastika) on some ancient depiction of some Hindu god.

Speaking of responsible, I think we all are, here. So if we're going to have such conversations, this is good company to have them in.

As moderator, I'm going to respectfully disagree. This conversation has already gotten as political as I can allow. Any more needs to go to the Quarter Moon Saloon, or some other platform.

And just as a reminder, I have several "flame" fighting methods at my disposal. Consider this a short puff from a CO2 bottle. I really don't want to have to pull the handle on the hangar-filling foam guns...

[Alan_A]

As moderator, I'm going to respectfully disagree. This conversation has already gotten as political as I can allow. Any more needs to go to the Quarter Moon Saloon, or some other platform.

And just as a reminder, I have several "flame" fighting methods at my disposal. Consider this a short puff from a CO2 bottle. I really don't want to have to pull the handle on the hangar-filling foam guns...

Point taken - though I should have been clearer that I saw that as sort of an exit statement. Agree it's well past time for us to get back to talking about the airplane.

Shalom and out!

[ColoKent]

I come to this community and this board to escape this sort of garbage. It’s history. I’ve seen ZERO evidence that a.) someone will convert to National Socialism by flying an airplane around in flight sim with a swastika on the tail, and b.) I have yet to meet a National Socialist on this board or anywhere else in the hobby.

And what’s more, people who try and turn items like this (and anything else they disagree with) into a moral litmus test are also well aware of that. Please, let’s keep this hobby free from politics. Thank you.

Best,

Kent

[ColoKent]

BTW…I have not pulled the trigger on this airplane. The reviews seem okay…just never been a huge JU-52 fan. The crazy thing however, is the wingspan…I saw the JU on display at Udvar Hazy a number of years ago, and I was ASTOUNDED at it’s HUGE wingspan…wasn’t expecting that…

Kent

[Alan_A]

@ColoKent - I can't claim to have any feeling for the airplane (I think it's mostly European friends who have strong ties to it) but to my surprise, I'm really enjoying the sim version. It's got character. It also has a few quirks and things that need polishing - that huge wingspan is, at the moment, contributing to some weird extreme-STOL behavior on takeoff. Sounds need polishing, too (the cockpit is way too quiet unless the windows and "sunroof" are opened. And a manual would really have been helpful. But in all, for $15 US, it's a lot of fun and excellent value. At minimum, it'll tide me over until a good Anuschka comes along.

[YoYo]

BTW…I have not pulled the trigger on this airplane. The reviews seem okay…just never been a huge JU-52 fan. The crazy thing however, is the wingspan…I saw the JU on display at Udvar Hazy a number of years ago, and I was ASTOUNDED at it’s HUGE wingspan…wasn’t expecting that…

Model is very nice and I like it however it has childish issues. If we will talk about A2A, Milviz, PMDG, and many "more" commercial developeres Im sure that they would fix it fairly quickly (in the first week after the release). But I have not good experience with Team from Asobo responsible for models. Husky has reversed brakes, Shock Ultra has totaly wrong speed and many more. So for example for Husky 2 months after release bugs are still present and no any patch for this. This is not a good approach, more like a kind of toy but my fingers are crossed for a patch for this Ju-52.

[ColoKent]

@ColoKent - I can't claim to have any feeling for the airplane (I think it's mostly European friends who have strong ties to it) but to my surprise, I'm really enjoying the sim version. It's got character. It also has a few quirks and things that need polishing - that huge wingspan is, at the moment, contributing to some weird extreme-STOL behavior on takeoff. Sounds need polishing, too (the cockpit is way too quiet unless the windows and "sunroof" are opened. And a manual would really have been helpful. But in all, for $15 US, it's a lot of fun and excellent value. At minimum, it'll tide me over until a good Anuschka comes along.

Alan...I've heard that "for the money", it is a nice package. And I am certain they will improve it.

Kent

[Alan_A]

Alan...I've heard that "for the money", it is a nice package. And I am certain they will improve it.

Kent

I hope they do - but as YoYo said, the experience with the Husky isn't encouraging about the pace of updates. Maybe after they finish Sim Updates 6 and 7, the airplanes will get some love.

But it is good value for dollar, and the entertainment is there if you work around a few quirks.

On balance, I'd say: recommended.

[Priller]

Haven't been able to find/buy/install it through steam and as a matter of principle, I do not buy through the marketplace.

Any pointers?

Priller

[ak416]

Haven't been able to find/buy/install it through steam and as a matter of principle, I do not buy through the marketplace.

Any pointers?

Priller

Unfortunately, there is no other option for aircraft that are exclusive to the marketplace. You must purchase it via the in-game marketplace.

The process is essentially the same in both the Steam version and Microsoft Store version. The only meaningful difference is that you don't have to enter your payment details in the Microsoft Store, you use the payment methods that Steam offers.

The developers mentioned in the most recent Q&A that all of the Premium aircraft (including DLC aircraft like the Junkers, Husky, Ultralight) have wording in their licensing agreements that dictates the products will be protected by Microsoft's DRM. So basically, it's the marketplace or nothing.

[Priller]

Thanks for the answer AK, then I'm afraid it will be nothing. I spent way too much money on the deluxe premium version of this sim, I can do without the Junkers.

Priller

[dvj]

Model is very nice and I like it however it has childish issues. If we will talk about A2A, Milviz, PMDG, and many "more" commercial developeres Im sure that they would fix it fairly quickly (in the first week after the release). But I have not good experience with Team from Asobo responsible for models. Husky has reversed brakes, Shock Ultra has totaly wrong speed and many more. So for example for Husky 2 months after release bugs are still present and no any patch for this. This is not a good approach, more like a kind of toy but my fingers are crossed for a patch for this Ju-52.

Given the trend, those 3 companies would charge you $50 or more for it. So I would expect better support and a more complete simulation.

[ak416]

Thanks for the answer AK, then I'm afraid it will be nothing. I spent way too much money on the deluxe premium version of this sim, I can do without the Junkers.

Priller

Can't say I blame you. I've waited until now to make my first marketplace purchase because I have been burned by Microsoft in the past when they shut down Games for Windows Live Marketplace a few years ago. I enjoyed Microsoft Flight 2012 quite a bit and while I can still reinstall Flight thanks to Steam, I cannot download any of the addons I purchased because they were made via the GFWL Marketplace, so I often go out of my way to avoid any sort of store run by Microsoft.

[YoYo]

Gosh! The model use on door texture part from right side of fuselage. Next BUG . What is it!

[Tom Clayton]

Gosh! The model use on door texture part from right side of fuselage. Next BUG . What is it!

Post that over at the official board and be sure to send it to Zendesk. That's definitely a bug that needs to be reported.

[TiAr]

I was also annoyed by the blurried propeller disks. You also can't implement real 2 or 3 blades over the blurried texture. Nevertheless, I tried to improve the display. For me, however, it looks 1000 times better than before.

hbhos5 by TiAr, auf Flickr

hbhos by TiAr, auf Flickr

https://flightsim.to/file/21875/junk...-disk-fix-1992

Thomas

[YoYo]

Thomas, great job! Thanks a lot! It was needed.

[pirosch]

Hi Thomas!

Ohhh yes, a very great Job and thank you so much for this very nice Paint. I Lovet...

Chris.. (Pirosch)