DC Designs PT-17 Stearman is Out
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Thread: DC Designs PT-17 Stearman is Out

  1. #1

  2. #2
    And it's lovely! Over Chicago...
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  3. #3
    I havent it yet, but what I noticed from screenies, does this frame isnt too ... fat (looks strange a little)?



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  4. #4
    YoYo-I have sat in that very seat many times- you are correct. Unfortunately the visual model doesn’t capture the essence of delicate solid that the Stearman normally evokes.Waiting for some reviews.

  5. #5
    Got it, very nice
    But it is VERY Tonka Toy, especially in the yellow RCAF livery...the cockpit seems to be made of very thick tubing, including a crosspiece under the panel (visible in photo above) that doesn't appear in the photos I've seen...
    I'm sure Dean will fix any inaccuracies...

  6. #6
    First time I've seen a Stearman fitted with armoured glass.



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  7. #7
    SOH-CM-2021 jmig's Avatar
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    o homeo home and talk about

    Bought it and flew it around Farmington, NM. I still got the yank to the left around 40 mph. Thank goodness it gets airborne quickly. After we were in the air, it was easy to fly. Managed to land on a high school football/soccer field. Kids will have something to go home and talk about tonight.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by wombat666 View Post
    First time I've seen a Stearman fitted with armoured glass.

    Sorry, I don't want to be a complainant but these rectangular "beams" don't look ok either.



    DC1973 any chances to fix this shapes in the patch?
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  9. #9
    If you look at the pre-release topic here in SOH, you will notice Dean has already acknowledged the visual problems and promised to fix the 3D model in the next update(s).

  10. #10
    As we continue to see source models, not originally made for flight sim, acquired and furnished out as flight sim products, it would be nice to see something like this, much more accurate, source model built out into a MSFS release: https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/mod...17-N75MR?hl=en

    It would still need quite a bit of work, but it would be a much better starting point than the source model DC Designs began with. Based on all of the screenshots I've seen, I'm afraid just about every inch of the DC Designs/Just Flight model would have to be redone in order to correct all of the issues that appear to be everywhere.

  11. #11

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bomber_12th View Post
    It would still need quite a bit of work, but it would be a much better starting point than the source model DC Designs began with. Based on all of the screenshots I've seen, I'm afraid just about every inch of the DC Designs/Just Flight model would have to be redone in order to correct all of the issues that appear to be everywhere.
    My Stearman is for those who enjoy flying, not for rivet counters, as are all of my aircraft. Although the first round of updates will fix the windscreen thickness and some other minor errors or aesthetic issues, it's built and priced for fun. If it's not for you, that's fine, move on.

    On the subject of source models, most of what we all buy for flight sim is sourced. I actually prefer to build my own aircraft as it's far more satisfying ( Concorde was scratch built ), but sometimes it makes business sense to source an existing 3D model if it fits the bill.
    I wish I had enough time to finish writing everything I sta...https://www.facebook.com/DC-Designs-2156295428024778/

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by jmig View Post
    Bought it and flew it around Farmington, NM. I still got the yank to the left around 40 mph. Thank goodness it gets airborne quickly. After we were in the air, it was easy to fly. Managed to land on a high school football/soccer field. Kids will have something to go home and talk about tonight.
    Ha ha... ...at least you MANAGED to land!!
    So it can't be as hard (read impossible) to land as the Waco, can it?

    Also, where did you buy it?
    It was said to be available in the MS in-game marketplace soon, wasn't it?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Stearman View Post
    Ha ha... ...at least you MANAGED to land!!
    So it can't be as hard (read impossible) to land as the Waco, can it?

    Also, where did you buy it?
    It was said to be available in the MS in-game marketplace soon, wasn't it?
    Pretty easy to land...in fact it wants to KEEP on flying at perhaps too low a speed...best bought from Just Flight rather than the marketplace so you can be sure of being able to add liveries and tweak configs I think...

    The dive to the left at 40 is an MSFS kludge also I think which hopefully they will fix one day.

  15. #15
    Honestly people, I think that the criticism of Dean's work here is more than a bit harsh, if not to say impolite.

    The man said that updates will come correcting some of the cosmetic things, but hey, it's a Stearman, it looks pretty convincing and it is only 12,95€.

    Just my two €cents worth.

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  16. #16
    SOH-CM-2021 jmig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stearman View Post
    Ha ha... ...at least you MANAGED to land!!
    So it can't be as hard (read impossible) to land as the Waco, can it?

    Also, where did you buy it?
    It was said to be available in the MS in-game marketplace soon, wasn't it?
    As Keith said, Just Flight.

    I would like to add my two-cents to the visual model comments. I too noticed the less then photorealistic look of the cockpit. But guys, come on this is a $15 airplane. I am willing to overlook a few things when the airplane is priced at $15 vs. $30 or more. I would rather have a nice flying airplane that doesn't look perfect to a beautifully modeled cockpit that has flying problems and cost twice as much.

    Considering the price, flight model, and looks, if you are into biplanes and/or Stearmans, I would consider this a buy.
    John

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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Priller View Post
    Honestly people, I think that the criticism of Dean's work here is more than a bit harsh, if not to say impolite.

    The man said that updates will come correcting some of the cosmetic things, but hey, it's a Stearman, it looks pretty convincing and it is only 12,95€.

    Just my two €cents worth.

    Priller
    I agree, and of course I'll be buying it soon.
    It's not by chance that I use the nickname I use :-)

  18. #18
    Thanks for the supportive comments - some folks seem to want the moon on a stick, and at budget price too!

    Work already underway on refinements, windscreen frames have lost weight, working on prop spin and elevator modeling corrections, fortunately all easy fixes - nothing horrible has been highlighted so far and early reviews are very positive

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    I wish I had enough time to finish writing everything I sta...https://www.facebook.com/DC-Designs-2156295428024778/

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by DC1973 View Post
    My Stearman is for those who enjoy flying, not for rivet counters, as are all of my aircraft. Although the first round of updates will fix the windscreen thickness and some other minor errors or aesthetic issues, it's built and priced for fun. If it's not for you, that's fine, move on.

    On the subject of source models, most of what we all buy for flight sim is sourced. I actually prefer to build my own aircraft as it's far more satisfying ( Concorde was scratch built ), but sometimes it makes business sense to source an existing 3D model if it fits the bill.
    I think if you are going to spend the time and energy creating an iconic aircraft like a Stearman, it better be spot on. But in this new world of xBOX MSFS2020, most of the users are gamer nubies who will never notice. That's your customer base and target market. I applaud the fact that you are going back and addressing the issues highlighted from a few individuals. So... there must be some value in the SOH forum feedback that cannot be ignored by a developer. Good luck with your sales.
    Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken.

  20. #20
    I don't want the moon on a stick - just a reasonable facsimile of one of the most iconic biplanes ever built.
    I tried to take into account the relatively low price however insofar as the Stearman model 75 has no real technical attributes to model - no glass displays, no weather radar, no deep study engine management, I figure the price point is also about that.
    But as I said in the other forum - among aviation enthusiasts you would be hard pressed to find a more familiar airplane than the Stearman 75 -
    PT-13 with the Lycoming, PT-17 with the Continental, and PT-18 with the Jacobs motor - and the dusters and Super Stearman with the Wasp Jr 450hp.
    You chose to model ONE. The PT-17, and there are a slew of problems with the visual model. All of them may in fact be easy to correct one by one - I hope so.
    But it doesn't help to hear you say it doesn't matter to get it right for a few folks, (while deriding them) and say what you're doing is ok because the masses don't know the difference.
    The history matters. The people behind the Stearman matter. Please try to represent that history and that airplane accurately or don't do it at all.
    This IS just a flight sim - a flying game... but the Stearman 75 isn't just an airplane.
    Is it the xBox thing that is making FSX P3D and Xplane developers have this attitude about MSFS? That they can't take it seriously?
    A1R had no problem taking a simple airplane design in the Ryan STA, and making it properly - accurate down to the last detail..and for a reasonable price.
    Maybe the new sim NEEDS new developers.
    And FWIW - I never disparaged this model or your work on it. I only pointed out those things that were not accurate representations of the actual airplane - because it matters
    enter..the Sandman

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  21. #21
    Bought it today and I'm really liking it. It feels like flying a Stearman, and the VR experience is pretty amazing. I'm sure Dean will tweak the details, as he has with his previous releases.

    I just have one suggestion: The flight model feels good on takeoff and in the air (the slow maneuvers I was able to do reflected Stearman displays I've seen at airshows), but on landing, it feels way too hard to bleed off speed. A big, draggy biplane should start slowing down when you pull the throttle way back, even when descending, and if you look at my screenshot I nearly went into the drink since I had a heck of a time getting the speed below 85.

    From a pilot report:
    The Stearman drag bleeds the speed off nicely for an over-the-threshold-speed of 85 MPH. Touchdown is 70-75 MPH. Throttle fully closed will normally cause a slight skip whereas a skosh of power will squeak it on every time.
    I just wasn't getting any speed bleed once I got down around 85 mph. JUST made the stop!

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  22. #22
    this looks great, probably going to pull out my wallet for this one, as I love planes from that era. I live about 30 minutes from where there's a yearly Stearman fly-in (www.stearmanflyin.com) and have been many times. Love seeing these old birds fly over that time of year.

    - dcc
    - -

  23. #23
    Honestly people, I think that the criticism of Dean's work here is more than a bit harsh, if not to say impolite.
    I couldn't agree more. This isn't PMDG or Carenado. It's a small developer (one man show?) that is releasing something that appears very nice overall. I'd buy it myself, but I prefer something that can carry a few more passengers. If it's not for you, don't buy it. If you have a suggestion, please find a polite way to offer it. I really don't want to get out my wet asbestos blanket - it's been in storage for so long it probably stinks to High Heaven by now!

  24. #24
    SOH-CM-2021 jmig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heywooood View Post
    I don't want the moon on a stick - just a reasonable facsimile of one of the most iconic biplanes ever built.
    I tried to take into account the relatively low price however insofar as the Stearman model 75 has no real technical attributes to model - no glass displays, no weather radar, no deep study engine management, I figure the price point is also about that.
    But as I said in the other forum - among aviation enthusiasts you would be hard pressed to find a more familiar airplane than the Stearman 75 -
    PT-13 with the Lycoming, PT-17 with the Continental, and PT-18 with the Jacobs motor - and the dusters and Super Stearman with the Wasp Jr 450hp.
    You chose to model ONE. The PT-17, and there are a slew of problems with the visual model. All of them may in fact be easy to correct one by one - I hope so.
    But it doesn't help to hear you say it doesn't matter to get it right for a few folks, (while deriding them) and say what you're doing is ok because the masses don't know the difference.
    The history matters. The people behind the Stearman matter. Please try to represent that history and that airplane accurately or don't do it at all.
    This IS just a flight sim - a flying game... but the Stearman 75 isn't just an airplane.
    Is it the xBox thing that is making FSX P3D and Xplane developers have this attitude about MSFS? That they can't take it seriously?
    A1R had no problem taking a simple airplane design in the Ryan STA, and making it properly - accurate down to the last detail..and for a reasonable price.
    Maybe the new sim NEEDS new developers.
    And FWIW - I never disparaged this model or your work on it. I only pointed out those things that were not accurate representations of the actual airplane - because it matters
    With full respect for you as an aviation enthusiast and your opinion concerning MSFS aircraft, I must disagree with most of your post. MSFS, I am afraid, is nothing more than a fancy arcade game. Asobo will talk about 1000 points of contact in their flight modeling. To me that is hyperbole that does little to provide a better aircraft flight model simulation. As you stated, this is a X-Box game designed to appeal to and satisfy the teenage gamers of the world. Anything else, as we say in South Louisiana, is lagniappe. I just recently retired as a beta tester for Milviz. They in my opinion make some of the most accurate flight sim aircraft available. I have flown the actual military simulator for two of their aircraft. One, the T-38A, I flew for real in pilot training. No FSX/P3D/MSFS aircraft model approaches the real aircraft feel. I will admit that MSFS has managed to make the visual model almost life like. Some of the screenshots I have seen here and elsewhere are hard to distinguish from the real aircraft.

    However, I am not big on perfect detail and historical accuracy in historical aircraft flight sim models. Nor, am I knowledgeable to a great degree. So I will not have your immense knowledge of the Stearman, or any other aircraft. As you stated, most gamers will care less about the visual accuracy of the model. I can't speak for Dean's thoughts and feelings on this. I have, however, on more than one occasion seen him write that he builds fun airplanes, not necessarily accurate ones. So, no one can accuse him of trying to pass off smothered chicken for Peking Duck. He and I have had more than one private conversation on flight models and what is "enough" system wise in his "fun" airplanes. I have come to accept what he provides, knowing full well that others might build a more complex study type aircraft with more robust and accurate systems.

    I think that both you and I will have to wait and see if GAS builds a MSFS version of the Stearman. If they do, I will buy it. I trust that it will be more accurate both flight model and visual wise. In the meanwhile I will fly the DC version on my sight-seeing jaunts which BTW, is the only kind of flying I do in MSFS. It is like a 3D Google Earth.
    John

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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Clayton View Post
    I couldn't agree more. This isn't PMDG or Carenado. It's a small developer (one man show?) that is releasing something that appears very nice overall. I'd buy it myself, but I prefer something that can carry a few more passengers. If it's not for you, don't buy it. If you have a suggestion, please find a polite way to offer it. I really don't want to get out my wet asbestos blanket - it's been in storage for so long it probably stinks to High Heaven by now!
    again "And FWIW - I never disparaged this model or your work on it. I only pointed out those things that were not accurate representations of the actual airplane - because it matters"

    enter..the Sandman

    visit Heywood Planes - YouTube

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