Confusion Over Cargo Weight Of DC-4s. C-54s, and Carvairs - Page 2
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Thread: Confusion Over Cargo Weight Of DC-4s. C-54s, and Carvairs

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by nagpaw View Post
    I want to make certain that we're talking about the same numbers. ?
    Good morning Nagpaw,

    I always use IAS speed in kt reading. And I use IAS kt speed info on DC-4 from sources in the vast world of internet. I installed into DC-4 package my speedometer gauge that gives me IAS kt speed reading and pressing ctl-Z in FSX to produce informative readings in red font which confirms accuracy of IAS kt speed reading from the custom made speedometer gauge.

    Also, many DC-4 manual books offer speed charts in both mph and IAS speed which I get info from.

    Quote Originally Posted by nagpaw View Post
    At 10,000 feet, a TAS of 180 knots would be about 150 knots IAS, or 174 miles per hour on the airspeed gauge. Is that the speed you're getting, and how much power is required to hold that?
    After finishing three successful Flight Replicas Carvair flights with too low speed, yesterday I made first Flight Replicas DC-4 flight which unfortunately produced same speed result as Carvair.

    I set 35 percent fuel, 600 lb crew, and heavier 12,000 lb of cargo loads into DC-4 to recreate historic flight between CYZF and CYHY by Buffalo Airways DC-4 doing emergency last minute Christmas gifts and food load supply from CYZF to CYHY with hope to be able to reach 10,000 ft cruising altitude!

    So far, I could not make to 10,000ft and had to settle for 6,000 ft because the climb was painfully too slow at 200 fpm climb rate. I could not do 500 fpm or 1,000 fpm climb because that made the speed too dangerously low which forced me to settle for 200 fpm climb rate to maintain stable speed.

    I wound up cruising at 6,000 ft at the IAS speed of 161 kt, 185 miles per hour, and 170 kn ground speed (stated by GPS) This might be realistic for Buffalo Airways DC-4s in present time (I know Buffalo Airways prefer 145-150 kt cruising IAS speed for DC-4) but too low for commercial airlines such as Pan Am or Delta or so on in era 1950s.

    As for how much power I used, I used full throttle power and full propeller control throttle and full mixture. Yes yes yes it is too unrealistic but that is only way I can maintain acceptable speed even though it is too low.

    Also flying first DC-4 flight produced new interesting problem. Whenever I clicked anti-ice or deice switches for wings and engines, it worked fine BUT BUT whenever I clicked two deice pitot tube switches, it always caused FSX freeze with the error message seen below so I was forced to fly the DC-4 flight in freezing below temperature weather without use of deice pitot tube switches.

    Regards,

    Aharon

    Error message seen below whenever I tried to click on two deice pitot tube switches:

    Faulting application name: fsx.exe, version: 10.0.61472.0, time stamp: 0x475e17d3
    Faulting module name: ai_player.dll, version: 10.0.61472.0, time stamp: 0x475e180c
    Exception code: 0xc0000005
    Fault offset: 0x00036419
    Faulting process id: 0x2cd0
    Faulting application start time: 0x01d6fe574bb67304
    Faulting application path: D:\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\fsx.exe
    Faulting module path: D:\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\ai_player.dll
    Report Id: 17864985-a648-4fbf-894e-ffa1d373d59e
    Faulting package full name:
    Faulting package-relative application ID:

  2. #27
    Yikes! I'm no software expert, but that really sounds like a software problem to me Have you tried reinstalling the FR DC-4 package?
    America never stopped being great.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by nagpaw View Post
    Yikes! I'm no software expert, but that really sounds like a software problem to me Have you tried reinstalling the FR DC-4 package?
    Well it is least of my problems and I am flying DC-4 package fine without use of pitot tubes. I am going to try trick how to activate pitot tubes without touching the switches by assigning/ using keyboard button command to that to see if that works without freezing up FSX.

    What I need is to solve the too low speed problem.

    If the DC-4 package is designed based on Buffalo Airways DC-4s in present era, I would understand and accept or agree to its realism of too low speed. But I do not think DC-4 package is designed in mind for Buffalo Airways DC-4s flying in 21st century.

    Regards,

    Aharon

  4. #29
    Just watched NWT ICE PIlOTS episode where they did many many emergency Christmas gift and food airlift flights from CYHY Hay River to CYZF Yellowknife due to the fact that ferries were closed because of frozen lake.

    DC-4 was loaded with 20,000 lbs of emergency supplies per each of many shuttle flights.

    Makes me wonder if Flight Replicas DC-4 can do that?? Fuel must have been set at very little 20 percent full for 120 nautical mile trip to be able to carry 20,000 lbs of cargo per flight.

    Regards,

    Aharon

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by srgalahad View Post
    I know this because I heard him explain it to a rookie co-pilot -thru my office window 3 floors above and 200 ft away with words I can't quote in this forum.
    Srgalahad,

    Sorry to bother you but if you work three floors above Buffalo Airways offices, maybe you can see Buffalo airways DC-4 pilots such as Justine Smile and ask them what is their preferred climb rate for their DC-4s because I am having hard time believing that Flight Replicas DC-4s can do only 200 or 300 fpm climb rate while maintaining stable speed and I can manage to reach only 5,000 ft instead of my desired 10,000 ft.

    Thanks,

    Aharon

  6. #31
    The FR model aircraft.cfg file shows a max weight of 73000 lbs, an empty weight of 43000 lbs and 1450hp engines. This approximates a military C-54G or production DC-4 according to FAA cert documents. The weight limit is based on integral wing tanks (vice strap down tanks in the forward fuselage as used in early C-54s), and fuel dump valves.

    My Navy C-54G performance figures say that at sea level standard day after takeoff, 140 mph / 120 KIAS climb at 73000 lbs standard day at 33" MAP and 2300 RPM the plane can climb at 770 fpm.

    Early USAF C-54 pilot manuals make a broad statement that C-54s can carry 20,000 lbs of cargo - of course that did not necessarily carry over to FAA certification for civil conversion of military aircraft.

    Apparently Buffalo Airways "DC-4"s were a mixed bag of converted military versions - C-54A, C-54E, C-54Gs. Each had different weight restrictions for civil ops, as well as a wide range of P&W / Wright engines varying from 1350 or 1450 HP at full takeoff ratings.

    Anyway, testing my P3D FR DC-4 I agree, climb sucks. I am going to fiddle with the power_scalar = 1 to get better climb, check cruise perf etc to see what I can do.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike71 View Post
    Apparently Buffalo Airways "DC-4"s were a mixed bag of converted military versions C-54A, C-54E, C-54Gs. Each had different weight restrictions for civil ops, as well as a wide range of P&W / Wright engines varying from 1350 or 1450 HP at full takeoff ratings.
    OH DARN you mean the painters painted Buffalo Airways liveries on wrong model bases?? Repainters assign Buffalo Airways liveries to RSD model base. Should I move the liveries to C-54A or C-54B unless you tell me it will not make difference and you tell me that C-54A and C-54B have same climb rate problem as DC-4 and Carvairs?

    BTW, thanks for letting me know about specific model bases for Buffalo Airways DC-4 fleet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike71 View Post
    My Navy C-54G performance figures say that at sea level standard day after takeoff, 140 mph / 120 KIAS climb at 73000 lbs standard day at 33" MAP and 2300 RPM the plane can climb at 770 fpm.

    Early USAF C-54 pilot manuals make a broad statement that C-54s can carry 20,000 lbs of cargo - of course that did not necessarily carry over to FAA certification for civil conversion of military aircraft.
    That would be perfect and that sounds perfect for Buffalo Airways planes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike71 View Post
    Anyway, testing my P3D FR DC-4 I agree, climb sucks. I am going to fiddle with the power_scalar = 1 to get better climb, check cruise perf etc to see what I can do.
    That would be much much much gratefully appreciated as I always look forward to recreate more historic flights of Carvairs carrying many cars and Buffalo Airways planes carrying up to 20,000 lbs of cargo load.

    Thanks for your kindness.

    Regards,

    Aharon

  8. #33
    Your "RSD" - you meant R5D - model is apparently based on the Navy R5D-5 or USAF C-54G with a MGW of 73000 lbs and 1450 hp engines. Buffalo had at least 2 C-54Gs involved in accidents. How many others I do not know. I assume your repaints would be correct as is for the R5D.

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike71 View Post
    Your "RSD" - you meant R5D - model is apparently based on the Navy R5D-5 or USAF C-54G with a MGW of 73000 lbs and 1450 hp engines. Buffalo had at least 2 C-54Gs involved in accidents. How many others I do not know. I assume your repaints would be correct as is for the R5D.
    Thanks for confirming correct placement of Buffalo Airways onto R5D model base.

    BTW, I am curious to see if the R5D mode
    l base with Buffalo Airways livery also known as C-54G can carry 20,000 lb cargo load with minimum fuel plus emergency fuel reserve enough for 150 nautical mile trip from CYHY to CYZF for recreation of famous emergency Christmas cargo airlift can take off and climb to 10,000 ft.

    Regards,

    Aharon

    P.S. I do not know why my sentences are in shade.

  10. #35
    I am told by Carvair experts that a Carvair carried an average of 5 cars and 20 passengers per flight. Although I have no idea how many pounds are five cars but we can deduce that the total weight of 20 passengers without luggages is 3,800 pounds based on average weight of 190 pounds per passenger.

    Should be interesting to see if I can recreate load of 5 cars and 20 passengers in Carvair flight.

    Regards,

    Aharon

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Aharon View Post
    ----

    BTW, I am curious to see if the R5D mode
    l base with Buffalo Airways livery also known as C-54G can carry 20,000 lb cargo load with minimum fuel plus emergency fuel reserve enough for 150 nautical mile trip from CYHY to CYZF for recreation of famous emergency Christmas cargo airlift can take off and climb to 10,000 ft. ---
    I have been doing some more review of data and testing. An R5D-5 / C-54G with 1450hp engines can have many variances due to how they were converted for civil use. I have modified my aircraft.cfg file to make a representative aircraft that has a representative climb rate. This is based on three authoritative though somewhat incoherent documents I have, including FAA cert data, NAVY/USAF handbook and a TRANSAIR DC-4 manual excerpt as follows:

    A quick point: the FR models include 2-speed superchargers in order mostly for use in military versions. HOWEVER - civil models normally had been modified to have only a slightly better, single speed supercharger so obviously no blower speed shifting required at altitude.. For my purposes here these figures refer to Low Blower settings, flaps & gear up, cowl flaps as required.

    Empty weight: 40700 lbs (realistically about 42000 with full interior, stripped out as a freight dog interior here)
    Max weight: 73000 lbs (as is per FR)
    Max Zero Fuel weight: 60700 lbs (FAA option: equates to 20,000 lbs max payload INCLUDING PILOTS!))
    Max Fuel capacity: 21384 lbs (as is per FR)
    Max Landing Weight: 63,500 lbs (FAA option)

    Max fuel at max cargo capacity: 12,300 lbs
    Max cargo at max fuel capacity: 10,916 lbs
    Max landing fuel at max cargo (max zero fuel weight): 2800 lbs


    Modified power scalar: 1.125 vice 1.0


    At 73000 lbs TO weight, plane can climb at ~ 140 mph / 800 fpm at 2550 RPM and 42" MAP (roughly METO power, referred to as max continuous in older certification process )


    ~ 140 mph / 500 fpm at 2300 RPM and 34" MAP (referred to as normal climb or optional climb in manuals)


    A quick check at 5000 MSL, 72400 lbs GW 33" MAP/2000 RPM shows a TAS of about 206 KTAS/237 mph.(Indicated (values are 193 KIAS / 222mph)


    Fuel consumption at these settings are at 2100 pph / 350 gal per hour fuel flow. This is pretty close to the data FR has in their EXCEL spread sheet.


    Obviously, with a full payload of 20,000 lbs and 12300 lbs of fuel, you could fly for about 41/2 hrs and land with 1 hr of fuel - about 900 nautical miles no wind.


    Obviously you could do better by getting up to 9,000 or 10,000 MSL depending on direction and wind because your TAS would increase by another 10% or so.

    BY THE WAY - you MUST constantly increase throttle to hold desired manifold pressure as you climb - it drops about 1" per 1000 ft if you don't. Make sure you do that!
    In addition, do NOT get slow in a climb. This type of plane, with such a low climb rate, builds up induced drag rapidly and loses the ability to quickly regain speed and climb rate, requiring a level off or even slight descent to get re-established..
    Last edited by Mike71; February 19th, 2021 at 12:00.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Aharon View Post
    I am told by Carvair experts that a Carvair carried an average of 5 cars and 20 passengers per flight. Although I have no idea how many pounds are five cars but we can deduce that the total weight of 20 passengers without luggages is 3,800 pounds based on average weight of 190 pounds per passenger.

    Should be interesting to see if I can recreate load of 5 cars and 20 passengers in Carvair flight.

    Regards,

    Aharon
    For US averages, Minivans, Small SUVs, Small Pick-Ups average about 4000 lbs empty (3200 - 4500 lb spread)

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike71 View Post
    For US averages, Minivans, Small SUVs, Small Pick-Ups average about 4000 lbs empty (3200 - 4500 lb spread)
    As the Carstairs operated UK to Europe air ferry routes, average European cars of the period were about 1 tonne in weight, things like rolls Royce would go to 2.5 tonneTtfnPete

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike71 View Post
    I have been doing some more review of data and testing.
    That is much appreciated in most grateful manner and I do look forward to complete modifications or revisions when you have chance to finish testing and reviewing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike71 View Post
    At 73000 lbs TO weight, plane can climb at ~ 140 mph / 800 fpm at 2550 RPM and 42" MAP (roughly METO power, referred to as max continuous in older certification process)~ 140 mph / 500 fpm at 2300 RPM and 34" MAP (referred to as normal climb or optional climb in manuals)
    I wish I can do that and the real world 500 to 800 fpm climb rate sounds realistic for all model bases in your Flight Replicas DC-4 package


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike71 View Post
    A quick check at 5000 MSL, 72400 lbs GW 33" MAP/2000 RPM shows a TAS of about 206 KTAS/237 mph.(Indicated (values are 193 KIAS / 222mph)
    That sounds realistic for all DC-4 variants serving as brand new planes in airlines in era 1950s and that sounds realistic for all Carvair planes in their prime time in era 1960s. Buffalo Airways planes are of course at far much lower speed in present era preferring 155 to 145 KIAS cruising speed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike71 View Post
    Obviously, with a full payload of 20,000 lbs and 12300 lbs of fuel, you could fly for about 4 1/2 hrs and land with 1 hr of fuel - about 900 nautical miles no wind.Obviously you could do better by getting up to 9,000 or 10,000 MSL depending on direction and wind because your TAS would increase by another 10% or so.
    Whoa I wish I can do that. I thought 20,000 lb cargo load of Buffalo Airways plane is suitable for short hop flights, not for non stop 4 hour flight with one extra hour left of fuel after landing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike71 View Post
    In addition, do NOT get slow in a climb. This type of plane, with such a low climb rate, builds up induced drag rapidly and loses the ability to quickly regain speed and climb rate, requiring a level off or even slight descent to get re-established..
    If I can figure out how to do that!!!Hopefully your modifications will help me to do that.

    Many many thanks for your hard work in testing, modifications, and reviewing. looking forward to your finished revisions.

    With humblest thanks and much appreication,

    Aharon

    Motormouse,

    Thanks for your information on average weight of each of European cars

    Mike,

    Thanks for your information on average weight of each of American cars.

    Regards,

    Aharon

  15. #40
    Charter Member 2017 srgalahad's Avatar
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    This is a flight in a STOCK FR C-54G/R5D (with the addition of the CF-IQM paint).

    CYHY departing Rwy 31, to CYZF landing Rwy 33 this morning. Wx is Active Sky

    Base weight + 600# crew, 20000# load + 6369# fuel. = 66,356.9 lbs at takeoff.
    Take off Max power, 0 flap, gear up thru 100 agl.
    Once gear up and airspeed above 150 mph, reduced to 35" / 2350 rpm and set autopilot for 7000 ft and 800 fpm
    Speed reduces from 155KIAS to approx 140 KIAS at 4000 so climb was reduced to 600 fpm
    Power not increased to maintain 35" in this short climb
    Level at 7000, power set to 30" /2150 rpm and once speed stabilizes - 185 KIAS (200 KTAS)
    Fuel for the leg: 1218 # + taxi or enough for about 5 hrs.

    The data log of the flight is attached. (Just stretch it wide once you open the .txt file so you can see the columns.) Data collected from the sim via Duenna (Johannes Mueller and Eamonn Watson).

    So, yes it's possible to achieve close to "book" numbers and loads.
    Also, if you are trying to recreate Buffalo flights, there is NO need to go for higher altitudes in the DC-3 or DC-4. The Minimum Enroute Altitude on V321 between HY & ZF is 3000' (I don't have the latest IFR chart) so the northbound leg could be filed at 3000 but more likely 5 or 7 and no higher. Why bother on such a short leg? I used 7000 just for the test and the temps. were low, but if there was no weather, I'd likely use 5000.

    BTW, I can't help you with current data for Buffalo any more than what you can find online. I left Yellowknife in 1996.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails flightlog_20210221191829.png  
    Attached Files Attached Files

    "To some the sky is the limit. To others it is home" anon.
    “Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.” -Albert Einstein


  16. #41
    SOH-CM-2020
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    I've been searching for suitable new textures for this classic workhorse.

    I'm mainly looking for Alaskan and Canadian cargo textures and I note that you've added .... (with the addition of the CF-IQM paint).

    Would you be so kind as to point me in the right direction for these textures please.

    Thanks,

    Pete

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by srgalahad View Post
    This is a flight in a STOCK FR C-54G/R5D (with the addition of the CF-IQM paint).
    Thank you for your kindness in sparing time from your busy schedule to make testing flight.

    Quote Originally Posted by srgalahad View Post
    Take off Max power, 0 flap, gear up thru 100 agl.
    Are you saying that you took off with max power and zero flap or are you saying that you retracted flap and gear at 100 AGl?


    Quote Originally Posted by srgalahad View Post
    Base weight + 600# crew, 20000# load + 6369# fuel. = 66,356.9 lbs at takeoff.
    reduced to 35" / 2350 rpm and set autopilot for 7000 ft and 800 fpm
    Speed reduces from 155KIAS to approx 140 KIAS at 4000 so climb was reduced to 600 fpm

    Level at 7000, power set to 30" /2150 rpm and once speed stabilizes - 185 KIAS (200 KTAS)
    I wish I could achieved those figures!! Maybe it works for you because you used R5D model base and I used DC-4 and Carvair model bases unless somebody tells me model bases do not make difference.

    Did you make that flight test before Mike made modifications to aircraft.cfg or after he made modifications and gave the revision to you to test?

    Quote Originally Posted by srgalahad View Post
    Also, if you are trying to recreate Buffalo flights, there is NO need to go for higher altitudes in the DC-3 or DC-4. The Minimum Enroute Altitude on V321 between HY & ZF is 3000' so the northbound leg could be filed at 3000 but more likely 5 or 7 and no higher..
    Strange I thought Buffalo Airways always uses 9,000 to 10,000 ft for CYHY to CYZF and back routes. I remember from seeing NWT ICE PIlOTS episodes.

    Once again, thanks for your very kind assistance and for your flight testing.

    Maybe I should test R5D model base to see if I can do the same thing you did unless Mike tells me that all model bases in the Flight Replicas DC-4 package have same aircraft.cfg. However, I think DC-4 and Carvairs should do better in performance to match real world operations.


    Regards,

    Aharon

  18. #43
    After finishing few flights abroad FR Carvairs and FR DC-4s, I am going this week make a testing flight using R5D model base (C-54G) to see if I can replicate amazing successful flight that Srgalahad did as seen below. Hope it will work for me!!! Willl let all of you know the results

    Regards,

    Aharon

    Quote Originally Posted by srgalahad View Post

    Base weight + 600 lbs crew, 20000 lbs load + 6369 lbs fuel. = 66,356.9 lbs at takeoff.
    reduced to 35" / 2350 rpm and set autopilot for 7000 ft and 800 fpm
    Speed reduces from 155KIAS to approx 140 KIAS at 4000 so climb was reduced to 600 fpm
    Level at 7000, power set to 30" /2150 rpm and once speed stabilizes - 185 KIAS (200 KTAS)

  19. #44
    Originally Posted by srgalahad Base weight + 600 lbs crew, 20000 lbs load + 6369 lbs fuel. = 66,356.9 lbs at takeoff.
    reduced to 35" / 2350 rpm and set autopilot for 7000 ft and 800 fpm
    Speed reduces from 155KIAS to approx 140 KIAS at 4000 so climb was reduced to 600 fpm
    Level at 7000, power set to 30" /2150 rpm and once speed stabilizes - 185 KIAS (200 KTAS)
    Okay okay I finally got to test R5D model base with Buffalo Airways repaint and loaded it up with same weight load factors as stated by Srgalahad seen above in his quotation EXCEPT I set the crew as 400 lb, not 600 lb unless I wanted to hire sumo wrestlers or football linebackers as pilots.

    I regret that I am unable to recreate the climb rate and speed successes of Srgalahad.

    For my flight from CYHY to CYZF, the R5D plane was unable to sustain 800 fpm at 155 KIAS speed and I was forced to use 200 fpm in order to maintain stable 130 KAIS speed. If I use 400 or 500 fpm, the speed would go down to 120 KIAS speed. I gave up climb at 3,000 ft and built up speed to 145 KIAS to resume climb to 5,000 ft which reduced the speed to 130 KIAS although I prefered 7,000 ft to 10,000 ft cruising altitude which is not going to happen for me.

    And the cruise speed after reaching and leveling at 5,000 climbed to top speed of 154 KIAS or 170 mph with full throttle power which fell short of 185 KIAS speed that Srgalahad enjoyed cruising in his same plane. Also 154 KIAS speed at full throttle power is not realistic as full throttle power is supposed to produce top speed of 200 KIAS or 75 percent throttle power is supposed to produce 185 KIAS or much much reduced throttle power is supposed to produce 145 KAIS speed for Buffalo Airways planes.

    I am okay with 154 KIAS as it is realistic speed for Buffalo Airways planes which usually cruise at 140 KIAS but but but top speed of 154 KIAS is not realistic for R5D model or DC-4 model or Carvair model as in real life, I am sure those planes in their hayhey glory days as brand new planes cruised at much higher speed especially air force C-54s!!!!

    Either I am doing something wrong or aircraft.cfg in all model bases need to be modified If I was in real US air force with my climb and speed performance, I do not think I would be successful for Berlin Airlift missions and air force generals would likely to scream at me for lousy climb and speed performance.

    Can anybody help me in solving the mystery of climb rate, climb speed, and cruising speed, please? Carvair is kind of fun to fly. So R5D with Buffalo Airways is too. And I do not want to give up and do not want to put the plane in permanent hangar storage.

    Thanks,

    Aharon

  20. #45
    Sorry if I missed it being addressed above, but are you using manual mixture settings and leaning the mixture accordingly?
    Striker, listen, and you listen close: flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle, just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by expat View Post
    Sorry if I missed it being addressed above, but are you using manual mixture settings and leaning the mixture accordingly?
    Expat,

    No need to apologize. I am using 100 percent fuel mixture switches (4) unless somebody tells me that this causes low KIAS speed and I should reduce mixture to increase KIAS speed??????? If so, how many percent mixture?

    Regards,

    Aharon

  22. #47
    If you are not using the "auto mixture" setting, you will find particularly with old propliners a substantial power loss/increase by adjusting the mixture, along with MAP and prop pitch/rpm throughout the flight profile. I do have the FR C-47 but don't recall how mixture sensitive it is vs the Calclasssics DC's and Connnies which are quite so. Others here can elaborate more expertly I am sure.
    Striker, listen, and you listen close: flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle, just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.

  23. #48
    Hi all
    In real life it is a fact that you have to lean the mixture as you go higher to maintain the best possible fuel-to-air ratio in the pistons and therefore the bigger explosion (hence power), there are a number of other factors , but lets not muddle at this point.

    If you allow for auto mixture in FSX (there is a tick box for that in the realism settings) it might be possible to see the difference, otherwise, I found a gauge that does that in the Cal-Classic forum:
    https://calclassic.proboards.com/thr...omixture-gauge

    Or you could also use "Real engine 1.4", which you can find here:
    https://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforu...tions-v1-4-zip

    Hope it helps

    Saludos
    Born to Fly

  24. #49
    Charter Member 2017 srgalahad's Avatar
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    You asked before and I don't think I answered. In my sim the FR model is installed as downloaded. No mods, no tweaks. I can see no reason within the model that there should be any difference on a different computer. Having said that, there are numerous things that can make a difference: calibration of controllers can limit how the sim is controlled (full-forward may not be full throttle for example); loading of the a/c -weight and balance affect trim and attitude affects drag; I don't know if FR included drag for the cowl flaps but I have seen models that do to the tune of 5 kts or so. As discussed above, if you are using manual mixture it's essential to have it set correctly. (My flights were with sim Auto-mixture enabled)

    That's why I recommend (while testing) that you use AFSD to be able to monitor the various parameters accurately as you go. Again, power and IAS will drop with increased altitude so do your testing at/near sea level to start and (with AFSD) monitor/record TRUE airspeed - once you get close to the 'published' numbers, try higher altitudes but remember that power and IAS will drop as you fly at higher altitudes - check the TAS.
    One particular thought - why try to climb at 155 Kts (178 Mph!)? that is an exceptionally high airspeed . Older aircraft generally climbed at much lower IAS than their cruise/max speeds (see below)

    I was able to find an Operating Manual for Resort Airlines DC-4B ( appears modified from Chicago & Southern manual). The charts are a bit difficult to read (older photocopies) but you can glean a lot if you squint and interpret. It also has comprehensive checklists and training hints that fill in more details.
    Here are data pulled from the pertinent sections:


    Weight: MTO 70,000# MLW 61,000#

    Wright Cyclone R1820-C9HD 6.8:1 (Fuel 100/130)

    Ratings:
    T/O 1425 HP 51.5" MP 2700rpm SL 5 min.
    Normal 1275 HP 46.5"MP 2500 rpm SL
    Normal 1275 HP 45.5" MP 2500rpm @3500 ft
    Take off flaps 15*

    Page 21/22 of the .pdf
    "Performance data shown... based on the following speeds:
    Climb speed: Flaps up (Max continuous power) 138 MPH (that's 120 Kts IAS)
    other data listed for engine inoperative

    Page 34------------
    True Indicated Airspeed 138MPH
    Gear up, Flaps retracted Max. Continuous power

    Reading from chart:
    SL 73,000# 950 fpm -- 2000ft 925 fpm --- 4000ft 900 fpm --- 5000ft 825 fpm

    Page 61:
    ..."it is possible to create a stall condition by raising the flaps at airspeeds below those necessary to maintain flight for reduced flap extension."

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Note: with a high-drag airframe like this even small deviations from the above speeds/attitudes can have surprising (and negative) effects on performance. Speed takes quite a while to recover if lost.

    https://aviationarchives.blogspot.co...ng-manual.html
    A copy of the Douglas DC-4 (C-54B-DC) Operating Manual from Resort Airlines, dated April 15, 1951. Credit: Irfan S. Hokan Collection Click here to download manual in PDF form (12.3 Megs)

    "To some the sky is the limit. To others it is home" anon.
    “Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.” -Albert Einstein


  25. #50
    Expat, Ascua, and Srgalahad,

    Thanks all for your kind words and answers.

    Quote Originally Posted by srgalahad View Post
    \"Performance data shown... based on the following speeds: Climb speed: Flaps up (Max continuous power) 138 MPH (that's 120 Kts IAS)
    120kt KIAS is NORMAl speed for climb?? I thought it is very abnormal as I had been averaging 130kt KIAS during climb at 200 fpm!!!!! If I tried 400 fpm or 800 fpm, it would dip down to 120kt KIAS which made me afraid that the plane would crash! Is 120kt KIAS normal for climb speed???

    Flight Replicas has informed me that it is NOT my fault or NOT my flying skills. Flight Replicas said it is fault of FSX Deluxe with SP1 and SP2 because DC-4 is designed for FSX Acceleration or FSX Steam or FSX Gold. And DC-4 does not work well in FSX Deluxe with SP1 and SP2.

    I might disagree with Flight Replicas because FSX Deluxe with SP1 and SP2 is same as FSX Acceleration and I think it is MY fault because I might have been using WRONG level settings for propeller control, mixture, throttle, power, and fuel even though I managed to successfully complete the flights.

    Can anybody show me screenshots of cockpit panel showing precise settings at percentage (70 percent or 80 percent or so as indicated by window bubbles when mouse is hoveringover levels) of fuel, mixture, and throttle levels in middle of cruising flight action so that I can study to see what I did wrong during my successful flights although slower KIAS speed. I think I am not supposed to set mixture level at 100 percent during flights.

    If Srgalahad can do this performance indicated below, then I should be able to do too!!

    srgalahad Base weight + 600 lbs crew, 20000 lbs load + 6369 lbs fuel. = 66,356.9 lbs at takeoff.
    reduced to 35" / 2350 rpm and set autopilot for 7000 ft and 800 fpm
    Speed reduces from 155KIAS to approx 140 KIAS at 4000 so climb was reduced to 600 fpm
    Level at 7000, power set to 30" /2150 rpm and once speed stabilizes - 185 KIAS (200 KTAS)
    Regards,

    Aharon

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