P3dv5 - flying boats and amphibians
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  1. #1
    SOH-CM-2021 BendyFlyer's Avatar
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    P3dv5 - flying boats and amphibians

    There are a number of us who are keen flying boat and amphibian flyers. P3DV5 with EA and True Sky combined with Nvidias dynamic water/ocean waves and the fact that LM has catered for things that float or can submerge in this Sim brings a whole new dimension to simulation and flight simulation that was not possible in MS FSX and the past.

    I thought I would start this thread to share with others tips, tricks, what addons work etc that focuses on this area of flight simulation. It may become a sticky maybe not either way a resource point and meeting place. So if you have links or information about models that work, scenery that enhances the flying boat or amphibian world this would be a good place to do it.

  2. #2
    SOH-CM-2021 BendyFlyer's Avatar
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    So to kick off - the following models I know work in P3DV5 so far are:

    MODELS and AIRCRAFT

    PILOTS new Boeing Clipper B314 specifically for P3DV5. (see thread on this one elsewhere here at SOH)

    JBK's S23,S30 (FSX Native version modified and available here at the SOH Library)
    JBK's Martin M130

    Aerosoft's PBY Catalina
    Aerosoft's FSX Twin Otter (The earlier 100 series Float Version not the Extended replacement).

    Flight Replicas Super Cub with Floats.

    George Diemer's Sikorsky's S42 and S43.

    Golden Age Simulations (now freeware) FSX DH60 and DH80's with and without floats.

    Dave Garwood's DH89 (FSX version)

    Milton Schupe's - Piston Mallard and Turbine Mallard (FSX versions) (Cockpits are dark but ok)

    WIP - A small team (From SOH members) is rebuilding and converting JBK's Sandringham, My Sunderland conversion of the Hythe, and then the Solent 3 and 4. The Scythe and Calcutta to be looked at as well much later on. The models have to be converted, panels and gauges updated etc to work with P3DV5 so a lot of work but it is happening.


    SCENERY

    I am redoing and will repackage then make available in the Library here all my Flying Boat Scenery that I have constructed over the years that covers all the flying boat bases used by Imperial Airways, BOAC and QANTAS. This covers some 30-40 locations around the globe. There was an original small package provided in the FSX Modified S23 in the library here at SOH but with changes to mesh, elevations etc between LM and ORBX (both) some rework is needed and also there are a lot of building models etc that need to be replaced with new ones, elevation corrections made etc.

    If you know of others such as the ORBX Pender and Ganges for example let us all know.

    EFFECTS

    McCoys water effects V4 which has files for P3D works fine in P3DV5. These affects allow you to change the wake and spray between large and small aircraft floats etc. Well worth having.

    TIPS

    1) If it is an older model from FSX or MS2004 with no internal model file it will not work in P3DV5 without being rebuilt using modelling software. IF it does not have 64 bit compatible guages or dll's these gauges and scripts, these will not work either.
    2) Older scenery bgls especially scenery from MS2004 does not work because a lot of the older stuff the textures etc are incompatible with 64 bit architecture and DDS textures.
    3) Avoid at all cost stuffing around with the Scenery config files - the xml addon method works fine and that is what it was designed for.
    4) There have now been 3 significant changes to the way the world (being a sphere) is displayed in the sims, MS2004 used a cylindrical projection, FSX did not and went to a standard satellite data mesh, LM has updated this all again to recent satellite data etc and so the world as it is portrayed in the sim is different, both from the way it is represented to the way its underlying architecture is made. Layering is still the go but textures not so easy.
    5) Be prepared to give up some oldies they won't make it!

  3. #3
    Great idea for a thread!
    I'm just getting started with 5.1 and so far have flown the Aerosoft PBY and Carenado 185 (floats) off the water.
    The new dynamic waves are really nice.
    If you have ORBX scenery the “Return to Misty Moorings” website is a great resource for all things bush and float flying.
    They have the info on how to install “Tongass Fjords” scenery in P3Dv5 as well as a ton of their own scenery addons for the Pacific north west.
    I7-6700K @ 4.3, ASUS Z170-P, 32GB DDR4 2133, RTX 2070 8GB, Windows 10 Pro, P3Dv5.3 HF2

  4. #4
    Watercraft are my favorites and P3Dv5 water is great for this.

    Aircraft
    Flysimware - Grumman G-44A Widgeon

    Milton Schupe - Avia 51 Amphibian
    file: av51ampkx.zip

    Milton Schupe - Beechcraft D18S Amphibian
    file: beechcraft_d18s_amphibian_fsx.zip

    Paul "Mechanic" Domingue - Grumman J2F5 Duck
    file: Bad_Duck.zip

    Various Geese:
    OZx HD Team - Grumman G-21A Goose
    file: Goose_OZ_HD_v1.20.zip

    Vladimir Gonchar - Grumman G-21A Goose
    file: fsx_grumman_goose_v2_1

    Randy Tyndall - Grumman G-21G Turbo Goose
    file: grumman_g21g_turbo_goose.zip

    Airports with a nice adjacent Seaplane Base
    Aerosoft Anchorage (PANC)
    Orbx Juneau (PAJN)

    TIP:
    Some amphibians and float planes that are not specifically designed for P3Dv5 water can exhibit very jittery, bouncy behavior on the water. If so, add the following to the planes's cfg file. It will average the wave height and make the plane more stable and realistic on the water.

    [contact_points]
    // Stabilizes aircraft or boat by reducing excessive skipping and bouncing in rough seas (water set to Ultra)
    always_use_avg_surface=1




  5. #5
    SOH-CM-2021 BendyFlyer's Avatar
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    DonMuskopf - neat tip and fix re the jumping about if it happens. Yep dynamic waves are a whole new dimension now in the sim.

    I also have noticed in the sim that on glassy water (little or no wave action) takes a long time to slow down to a stop now as it is in real life but a big of chop and some small waves you slow down faster - as in real life. Glassy water was a bugger for take offs as hulls would take ages to unstick I read that in WW2 the Sunderlands (and others) would do take off runs back and forth on the water area just to create some waves to get the hull on the plane and then flying. Sometimes they just gave up and went home.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by BendyFlyer View Post
    I also have noticed in the sim that on glassy water (little or no wave action) takes a long time to slow down to a stop now as it is in real life but a big of chop and some small waves you slow down faster - as in real life. Glassy water was a bugger for take offs as hulls would take ages to unstick I read that in WW2 the Sunderlands (and others) would do take off runs back and forth on the water area just to create some waves to get the hull on the plane and then flying. Sometimes they just gave up and went home.
    That's really interesting about glassy water on take-off and water drag. I never knew that. I always have focused on getting "up on the step'.

    TIP:
    Like a lot of simmers, I use Accu-Feel (couldn't live without it). If you use Accu-Feel, I recommend checking Sea in Aircraft Settings and unchecking Waves AUTO. I uncheck Waves AUTO to prevent any conflict with P3Dv5. Checking Sea allows you adjust Water Drag on individual aircraft. I have found that sometimes when you import a seaplane into P3Dv5, there seems to be too much or too little (usually too much) water drag.
    In this case, I usually adjust the water drag until the aircraft will lift off at its rated take-off speed when using normal procedures.

  7. #7
    BendyFlyer, I forgot to ask one question. Does this thread focus just on flying boats and amphibians, or should we include float planes, too?

    Thanks.

  8. #8
    SOH-CM-2021 BendyFlyer's Avatar
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    No preference or distinction from me, I saw the thread as much needed and in time a sim community resource in this area for all to read or participate in as they feel the need like the rest of SOH. For example the arcane issue of contact points is a real teaser for all sim models but little said about and you really have to hunt some times for that sort of information.

    Float planes off course are part of the grand group of aircraft that were either built specifically to be a sea plane or were a land plane modified to operate on water, that is were a float plane modified to operate only onto and off water or were an amphibian meaning they were modified to allow wheels and floats so they could be a land plane or sea plane (or flying boat depending if it is Americans or Brits talking) is the way I have always grouped them.

    I think the term flying boat had its origins in the early days of aviation because to naval folk that is what they were a flying boat. Air regulations applied in the air, maritime rules applied on the water. Most folk are unaware that most of the main regulations in all aviation were actually adopted across from maritime law and rules (right of way, lights, etc) along with a lot terminology and phrases which are common today.

    Interestingly when float planes, amphibians and flying boats were all the go with various military aviation arms (generally the Navy) if you were aircrew and selected to go to these units you spent about 3 months doing a course that taught you all the stuff you needed to know, maritime law and rules, handling boats, tying nautical knots, flag signals, light signals, sea states etc before you started actual conversion or type training onto a flying boat of float plane. Not always fun, I recall from one book the anecdote from one pilot about all being on the wing of a Sunderland in Poole Harbour during this training phase and being lectured about one hand for the ship one for yourself (keep a hold of something on a ship) and then promptly sliding off the icy wing in full uniform into the winter waters of Poole Harbour much to everyone else's merriment.

  9. #9
    SOH-CM-2021 BendyFlyer's Avatar
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    I thought I would repost this link to from another thread about dynamic waves in P3DV5 for those interested in the sims capacity in this area:

    Dynamic Waves in P3DV5 - Hurricane Force (sim-outhouse.com)

  10. #10
    More watercraft that work in P3Dv5.

    Floatplanes:
    AEROPROYECTO - Cessna C172 Floatplane

    Ants - Tecnam P92 Eaglet Floatplane

    CR1 - Ford Trimotor Floatplane

    Lionheart - Fairchild 24R Floatplane (with Neptune inline engine)
    Lionheart - Fairchild 24W Floatplane (with Jupiter radial engine)

    Milton Schupe - Avia 57 Floatplane

    Nigel Richards- AVRO 646 Sea Tutor

    Thomas Röhl - Cessna T206H Soloy MK2 Floatplane
    Thomas Röhl - Cessna U206G Soloy MK1 Floatplane V4

    ATSimulations - CriCri Floatplane

    Seaplanes:
    Massimo Taccoli - Canadair CL215
    Massimo Taccoli - Canadair CL415

  11. #11
    SOH-CM-2021 BendyFlyer's Avatar
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    I uploaded today and you will find available in the Warbirds Library P3D Scenery the flying boat scenery I have constructed over a long period of time. It has all been checked and works well as a scenery addon in P3DV5. That includes the various library's that are used in the scenery to give and support the eye candy factor but which are not provided in the package for file size and legal reasons. Any library used is freeware and readily available.

    A list of all locations covered is also provided together with a comprehensive HOW TO for installation. It is not that difficult the main issue is really the scenery relies on a large number of freeware scenery object library's which you will have to go and get off the web and install yourself, for legal and ethical reasons. If you do not want to do that it will still work and give you a nice list of places to go to across the globe but when you get there it will just be default scenery that is all. All constructed using ADE so it works.

  12. #12
    SOH-CM-2021 BendyFlyer's Avatar
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    5 New Conversions of Shorts Flying Boats

    Now there are 5 new packages up at SimAviation in the P3D section. They are all conversions of JBK's flying boats except the Sunderland.
    There are:
    The S5 Singapore
    The S8 Calcutta
    Several conversions of S23 and S30. These are all conversions into native FSX and thence P3D so they are the original Jens models. Who did them hard to say.

    Then there is a Sunderland Package containing the MK1, Mk2 and MkIII Sunderlands in a variety of paints. The JBK Hythe Panel has been added to these and these are conversions of another model(s).

    Interesting point is the conversion author has changed the hull contact points and other effects to incorporate what is termed the AZUR affect or Fix. This appears to get the aircraft out of the water and up onto the planing hull once speed increases and from what I have seen so far appears to work. You will need to change the sounds as they reference the FSX DC-3 Sound which of course is not in P3DV5. The panels all work.




  13. #13
    SOH-CM-2021 BendyFlyer's Avatar
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    I forgot the Sunderlands, they are very well done. Only issue I had was the MK1 model will not display.




  14. #14
    SOH-CM-2021 BendyFlyer's Avatar
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    SHESSI Conversions - the L'AZUR contact point fix.

    The recent uploads to SimAviaiton (and elsewhere I guess) produced a few surprises. First time I have seen an upload without any contact details anywhere to contact the publishers and offer feedback.

    The other thing is there is a readme concerning the " L'Azur" contact point changes which supposedly overcome a shortcoming in the way FSX and MS dealt with floats on the water and the need to generate a wake affect. The changes claim that resetting the contact points to represent a hypothetical undercarriage placement re the CoG allow the hull to get clear of the surface and begin to transfer the 'plane' thus improving the visuals but the take off performance.

    Here is what I have found - the changes do appear to work but have obviously been configured for each of the models, S8, S5 and S25. The aircraft do come up and begin to adopt a planing attitude and do appear to take off more readily with less trim. However the reverse is also true on landing the ROD must be very low and the aircraft or model almost in a level attitude before touchdown anything else effectively results in a 'crash'. I do think the models get on the plane a little too quickly and perhaps just a little too much in terms of elevation, but it seems they have something there. The author(s) say they have not tried it with dynamic waves in P3D and yet nor have I. I do find all the models now very difficult to steer on the water and they require large amounts of assymetric power from one side to get to turn and they even then turn turn way too slowly. I think putting the water rudder command (Y/N) back in the config to these would fix that problem.

    The Sunderland engines starter torque was set way to low and readjusted to 0.3035 will allow normal starting via the starter buttons, otherwise they will not start as is.

    And try as I may the sim refuses to display the model for the Sunderland MK 1. You can see it cleanly shown in the select vehicle menu but when selected you get an error message- cannot display model it then loads with sound but no aeroplane at all. This does not happen for the MK III. No obvious reason I can see at the moment.

    I have been unable to find any sim forum discussions elsewhere that talks about the L'Azur mod for float planes. It appears logical.

    It does not adopt immediately to other flying boat models, on one I tried the aircraft sat very low in the water, stationary or on take off, actually dug the floats in and crashed. So obviously needs adjusting for that type.

    The effects file changes I think are great and not sure what has been done there but it is a vast improvement on the get the right wake affect of the past.

    Anyhow the S5 and the S8 work fine, so does the Sunderland MKIII some great liveries done there and well with different panels in that I did for the JBK boats and sound, they get a tick from me.

    Anybody have any view on the this ' L'AZur' mod like to hear from you.

    The JBK with the paste and copy of the contact points - um on take off no!


    The Schessi or MKIII Sunderland on take off - yes this works here!

  15. #15
    Hi,
    A little disappointed to see that my models do not hold interest (lol). But I would like to point out that the native Loire 210 seaplane P3DV5 is also available.



    This requires modesty ... of course!
    JMC
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails loire210_proto.jpg  

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by gastonj View Post
    Hi,
    A little disappointed to see that my models do not hold interest (lol). But I would like to point out that the native Loire 210 seaplane P3DV5 is also available. This requires modesty ... of course!
    JMC
    I have the Loire 210 and I love it! I don't know how I missed that on my list. No need for modesty when you make great aircraft, lol.

  17. #17

    Sunderland MK 1

    Bendyflyer,

    The model.cfg file of the Sunderland MK 1 is incorrect. Just open it in a text editor and you'll see what is wrong.

    Jan

  18. #18
    SOH-CM-2021 BendyFlyer's Avatar
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    mooringj - thanks could not see for looking! Fixed.

  19. #19
    SOH-CM-2021 BendyFlyer's Avatar
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    Fix one problem up pops another (none of which is P3D's fault) old scenery - this is Lisbon Water Port not sure where I go it some time ago. Seems airport services are now available off shore!


  20. #20
    SOH-CM-2021 BendyFlyer's Avatar
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    Gaston J - no that beauty is not forgotten. Could do with some suitable French places to go fly her!

  21. #21
    I cannot get the Sandringham to move in P3Dv5 even on full throttle. I cannot get the Hythe to show visibly although it is listed but I don't know if the latter has been converted yet.

  22. #22
    I hadn’t seen this topic, I started to convert Short Sandringham JBK, it’s getting better I added wheels for movement on the ground and I intend to put a good VC




    English is not my native language, I ask your indulgence.
    Correct me, if you will.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by BendyFlyer View Post
    Gaston J - no that beauty is not forgotten. Could do with some suitable French places to go fly her!
    You can download the "occitania" suite which contains a magnificent hydrobase code "HFBS" (Biscarosse) and airports/scenery for the south of France such as "La Grande Motte", popular seaside resort in France (near airport LFNG).

    JMC

  24. #24
    No mention yet of the wonderful SeaBee?

    jk4384

    kenmore003
    You can find most of my repaints for FSX/P3D in the library here on the outhouse.
    For MFS paints go to flightsim.to

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by simondix View Post
    I cannot get the Sandringham to move in P3Dv5 even on full throttle. I cannot get the Hythe to show visibly although it is listed but I don't know if the latter has been converted yet.
    If you use Accu-Feel, you can adjust Water Drag on individual aircraft. I have found that sometimes when you import an FSX native seaplane into P3Dv5, there seems to be too much water drag. In this case, I usually adjust the water drag until the aircraft will lift off at its rated take-off speed. I recommend checking Sea in Accu-Feel's Aircraft Settings and unchecking Waves AUTO. I uncheck Waves AUTO to prevent any conflict with P3Dv5's wave algorithms. Checking Sea allows you adjust Water Drag on individual aircraft and get the nautical sounds provided by Accu-Feel.

    Also, I believe in real life the Sandringham took a long time to get airborne.

    I'm not sure how A2A adjusts water drag in Accu-Feel, but I would like to understand what parameters related to the airfile govern water drag. Another research project, lol.

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