Comentary: MSFS 2020 the next morning
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Thread: Comentary: MSFS 2020 the next morning

  1. #1
    SOH-CM-2024 jmig's Avatar
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    Comentary: MSFS 2020 the next morning

    Back in my days of youth, when sexist statements were normal banter, we had one about the physical appearance of a young woman with whom you might be considering spending the night. This was usually after consuming more than your normal limit of “adult beverages” and being shot down by your 1st, 2nd, and maybe 3rd bed candidate. So, you rolled in on the poor overweight and unattractive lass who was still available. It was about this time one of your buddies would say, “What will she look like in the morning?”


    Well, it is the next morning for me with MSFS 2020. Its cuteness and sexual, to continue the metaphor, attractiveness has worn off. What is left (to my horror) in the morning is an underage child pretending to be a sim. To be fair to Microsoft and Asobo, they call MS2020 a game, not a simulator.


    I find the aircraft handling and systems usage to be a joke. A $120 joke. I will admit what everyone knows, it is pretty game. The visuals are beautiful. However, if I want pretty scenery, I can use Google Earth or Bing to scope out parts of the world I haven’t visited. To be fair to Google Earth, its views are more accurate than MS2020’s.


    I took a photo trip last month. Before doing any new trip, I fly the route with GE. This time I also did it with MS2020. A part of the route included driving Beartooth Highway in Montana and Wyoming. For those of you not familiar with Beartooth Highway, it is one of the most beautiful mountain drives in the US. Google was more accurate and useful for pre-planning photos than my flyby with MS2020.


    So, while P3D doesn’t offer me the youthfulness and beauty of MS2020, she is faithful and knowledgeable to my ways. She has been good to me. I have gone back to her for real pretend flying.


    She fits my needs. I am an inside the cockpit guy. Systems and handling are more important to me than looks and perfect terrain accuracy. I will keep an eye on the child-sim and check in on her for time to time to see the latest dress up scenery Asobo gives her. But for simulated flying that allows me to suspend my disbelief and pretend I am a young man again, P3D is and will remain my mistress.
    John

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  2. #2
    While I understand your comments, I think one should keep the eyes open on the new sim.
    This recent fashion of saying "it's a game not a sim" or "MSFS is for gamers, while serious simmers use XPlane or P3D" is a getting a bit ridiculous and I believe we real simmers are a bit more educated than this.

    If you look at the MSFS more carefully, you should recognize *some* (few, which do not include the liners) of the planes have actually quite a good flight model and quite good avionics, far ahead of anything we ever got in FSX or P3D (remember the default planes in these?). Add the community mods to these few planes, and you start getting a very nice experience which has nothing to do with "kids video games".

    Also, you didn't buy a 120$ sim. You bought a 60$ sim, with 10 addon planes and 10 addon airports with a *very reasonable* price of 3$ each.
    Finally, you bought a sim that is still pretty much in Alpha state but gets updated quite frequently. I don't really see anything shocking here

    So of course, the addons you can get in XPlane and P3D are far more advanced. For now.
    But from my side, I don't get any pleasure flying in these sims anymore.
    Xplane looks empty, despite all the nice Ortho4XP sceneries with XEurope autogen I could generate... And let's not talk about the ugly weather engine. The performance with Vulkan became better, but you still have to disable reflections and other things, and you still get 2D clouds with stupid moving shadows which kill any kind of immersion in VR...
    P3D has the planes I like... but looks so terrible (even the EA in P3Dv5 are still just a proof of concept... like TrueSky in FSW for example) and performs so terrible (especially in VR) I just uninstalled it for good (I had v4, never found the motivation to buy the v5).
    Right now only XPlane is still installed on my computer. I haven't bought MSFS yet but I know it's just a matter of time before I do it, and I know what will happen to my XPlane soon after...

  3. #3
    I was an MSFS alpha-tester and have flown pretty much nothing else since...until this week.
    Agreed the default planes are a mixed bunch and not to my taste, so I only fly FSX imports, and part of the fun is the challenge of getting old favorites to work again, even if they are slightly dysfunctional.

    It's the scenery and particularly the feeling of being there that's the big attraction especially for VFR flyers.

    So this week I yielded and bought the old Wilco Harrier GR3, nominally FSX-P3Dv4, to try in MSFS. It converts easily and mostly works, 50% instruments, no vectored thrust, no HUD, dodgy FM....
    So I tried it in P3DV4...still no vectored thrust, no HUD and the textures are dodgy, but the instruments mostly work. I've fixed the vectoring but still no HUD.

    So I resurrected P3DV2 and everything on the Harrier works

    Point of all this is that I've posted 3 comparison videos - same plane, same Welsh valley, 3 sims. The videos illustrate
    a, the differences between the sims
    b, the poor performance of my elderly system
    https://youtu.be/m2m_i--qo6Y
    https://youtu.be/MMcL_tt5-1I
    https://youtu.be/J-UUD25sT9c

    For now I'll be sticking with P3Dv2.4

    Cheers
    Keith

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by jmig
    Well, it is the next morning for me with MSFS 2020. Its cuteness and sexual, to continue the metaphor, attractiveness has worn off. What is left (to my horror) in the morning is an underage child pretending to be a sim.
    I've never been so disturbed by someone describing a piece of software as I have when I read this. What on earth are you talking about?

  5. #5
    SOH-CM-2019 hubbabubba's Avatar
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    Just have to look at my avatar to realize how far back I was. But one thing is for sure; most FS or CFS are pretty much done with, like it or not, and MSFS 2020 is not only there to stay, but also to get better as it is an open "work in progess".

    "Work in progress" is not an insult. It has the words "work" and "progress" in it, which is good. To keep-up with the metaphore, jmig, you're acting like a premature ... flightsimmer, in search of immediate fulfillment.
    Torture numbers and they'll say anything.


    Hubbabubba, Touche à tout.

  6. #6
    And now I imagine how great a new CFS based on the MSFS engine would be... It probably will never happen, but we can dream...

  7. #7
    Make sure your Bing data was turned on. Somehow, mine got turned off.
    Freaked me out after the last update how bad the scenery looked. Turns out that Bing data does a lot to transform the landclass.
    I personlly have been loving my experience in FS2020. The landscape where I fly for real looks spot on (with Bing Data on), like, amazingly so. And with the various addons, and appropriately adjusted control sensitivity, flight modeling is spot on as well, particularly so for the C-152 update I've been using. I haven't flown the other planes IRL so I can't speak to them,... well, except for the Savage Cub... I've never flown one, but there is ZERO chance the engine is properly modeled there, it's like flying an F-16...

  8. #8
    SOH-CM-2024 jmig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak416 View Post
    I've never been so disturbed by someone describing a piece of software as I have when I read this. What on earth are you talking about?
    It is an analogy. Nothing more, nothing less. Like all analogies it uses comparisons to express a point or idea. In this case I am comparing a drunken night out which comes as a shock to the individual the next morning, to my disillusionment with MSFS2020.

    The genesis of my analogy comes from my flying days in the USAF. I watched fellow pilots on numerous occasions rush off for a night as described above. For a few, their behavior became a squadron joke. One individual did wake up with an underage girl in his bed. For him, it became a career ending night.

    .
    John

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by keithb77 View Post
    I was an MSFS alpha-tester and have flown pretty much nothing else since...until this week.
    Agreed the default planes are a mixed bunch and not to my taste, so I only fly FSX imports, and part of the fun is the challenge of getting old favorites to work again, even if they are slightly dysfunctional.

    It's the scenery and particularly the feeling of being there that's the big attraction especially for VFR flyers.

    So this week I yielded and bought the old Wilco Harrier GR3, nominally FSX-P3Dv4, to try in MSFS. It converts easily and mostly works, 50% instruments, no vectored thrust, no HUD, dodgy FM....
    So I tried it in P3DV4...still no vectored thrust, no HUD and the textures are dodgy, but the instruments mostly work. I've fixed the vectoring but still no HUD.

    So I resurrected P3DV2 and everything on the Harrier works

    Point of all this is that I've posted 3 comparison videos - same plane, same Welsh valley, 3 sims. The videos illustrate
    a, the differences between the sims
    b, the poor performance of my elderly system
    https://youtu.be/m2m_i--qo6Y
    https://youtu.be/MMcL_tt5-1I
    https://youtu.be/J-UUD25sT9c

    For now I'll be sticking with P3Dv2.4

    Cheers
    Keith
    Nice video's to watch, thanks.
    But not sure of the purpose of these video's.

    If it's about comparing the looks of the sceneries: I understand.

    But if it's about flying this particular Harrier addon in these 3 different Flightsim versions, I don't understand your point.
    What distinguishes a (any) Harrier from most other mil-jets, is it's vectored thrust (STOL/VTOL) capability; which isn't shown in these video's.
    Which makes me wonder your preference to stick to P3Dv2.4

    Cheers, Rob

  10. #10
    Should have put in more commentary, sorry.
    Really it's about comparing the suitability of the 3 sims for a particular type of flying - tactical, low-level through the valleys at 450 KTS.

    MSFS scenery is best hands-down - but at that speed and height its so much load on my system that flying gets difficult - you can't get down low and make the turns with predictability. And the imported Harrier loses HUD and many instruments (and VTOL but that's not important here).

    P3DV5 with Orbx TE can look good, sometimes better than MSFS where custom buildings are used or when MSFS has but a tower-block in a village - but the performance was poor and textures blurry until I turned them right down. And the video has lots of judders, presumably where P3D hogged resources as flying was fine. The aircraft and particularly panel textures don't display well but the instruments work though no HUD. VTOL can be made to work with a replacement 64bit DLL by Mariyardi.

    P3DV2 with very old JustFlight photoscenery is OK for this use, you don't have time to see the warts and it's very fluid and responsive so easy to fly to b***s to the wall. And the HUD works which is a big bonus.

    So really just saying it's horses for courses - for some usage/users MSFS is unbeatable, for others P3D (or XPlane - I'll do an XPlane video) is still right.

    And for some specific cases 32-bit P3D can still fit the bill. I'm using it for the Harrier HUD and to try some other older 32-bit stuff, prior to trying to port them again.

    EDIT: Apologies Rob, I didn't realise who it was commenting!
    I've now got HMS Invincible in P3Dv2, with hard-deck and part of a task-force curtesy of SimSkunkWorks Carrier Fleet tools, so busy VTOLing onto and Ski-ramp STOLing
    Cheers
    Keith
    Last edited by keithb77; November 13th, 2020 at 06:58.

  11. #11
    Beer! Beer makes people write strange things.
    Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken.

  12. #12
    SOH-CM-2024 jmig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvj View Post
    Beer! Beer makes people write strange things.
    I can't use that excuse. however.
    John

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  13. #13
    I respect those points of view, in general it is about the systems and not solely the eye candy but I am used to FS2020 now (when recurring bugs from updates aren't fouling things) and to the point I can't revert to P3D. The cost of latter and it's addons were expensive and taking into account that v5 visually didn't up the bar as much as many had hoped it would, I decided not to upgrade to v5. Seeing the potential for FS2020 was enough for me to halt buying anything more for P3D and eventually discontinue it's use. Yes it is going to take time before FS2020 sees the major addons come in but that's right around the corner plus the improvements will continue to take shape. I look back at the transition from FS9 to FSX and all the early ills FSX suffered and it's slow development pace (initially) but it did grow very well and 3rd party development did build the bridges into P3D and FS2020. X-Plane never cut it for me personally, it's like a step backwards. The rest of my time is in DCS which I use quite regularly for the high perf models (and the F-14A is coming in a few days). Just going to wait and enjoy what I have now until the FS2020 addons begin to flow in more.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  14. #14
    I loved MSFS even more the next morning..

    The only thing i may be a bit 'irked' about is the fact that MS/Asobo choosed only 'modern' aircraft models as default for us to fly. Still understandable of course because, for one thing, 'glass cockpits' require much less work to develop than the steam variant. 'You've seen one, you've seem them all', isn't it. I do love the Zlin Savage Cub external AND internal model and likewise C-152, Cap-10, Robin or any other non glass-cockpit VC.

    F.i. there has never been a model of the Beech Bonanza that looks so extraordinairy beautiful as MSFS' default Bonanza. Not in *any* other flightsim program. Alas that goes for the external model only. Step inside and you'll be greeted by a dull looking dark grey dashboard holding two big computer screens (like the one you're already looking at... ) with a bunch of knobs and switches. That's it really. What it *could have* looked like is something like this (Ok, i hate glass cockpits..;-) :



    Nevertheless, it's just a matter of waiting for beautiful things to come for which Dino (Indiafoxtecho) presented an advance with his wonderful MB-339 and Long-EZ MSFS models.

    True, i 'fly' MSFS just like i flew every earlier iterations of FS/P3D, mostly VFR (1000 ft agl is my fav flightlevel;-) and vintage airliners IFR, and, as far as i'm concerned, that's exactly what *my* MSFS is made for. With every next morning to come i'll love it more. Thank you so much MS/Asobo !!
    Last edited by Javis; November 14th, 2020 at 01:14.

  15. #15
    Methinks everybody initially had a love-hate relationship whenever a new version of FS was released. Why should MSFS be any different?
    TFZ-034
    "I fought the law and the law won ..."

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawman View Post
    Methinks everybody initially had a love-hate relationship whenever a new version of FS was released. Why should MSFS be any different?
    I agree wholeheartedly! Although I must say that the colourful language of jmig definitely was amusing. It reminded me of a couple of books by Charles Bukowski that I've read!

    Cheers,

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