Piper Aztec Steams ahead

[bazzar]

We are delighted to announce that the Piper Aztec P-23-250-D will now be available ONLY AND EXCLUSIVELY on FSX/Steam Edition.
This is not a decision we have made lightly and is the right business decision for us. We sincerely believe that Dovetail Games have a firm grip on the future for FSX and with the future plans in store, they really do represent the way forward for our hobby. Therefore we think it appropriate to get behind the guys and support the tremendous effort they are making. We very much hope you will agree. Keep an eye on our site and at www.fsxinsider.com:engel016: (http://www.fsxinsider.com:engel016:)

[Firekitten]

Understand the decision, but disappointed. As a boxed edition/P3d user, It won't be available to me to fly, but I see the reasoning behind it, and working with Iris on stuff for and with Dovetail, I totally get your logic Bazzar, just personally sad I won't get to fly her :(

[txnetcop]

What Firekitten said...gonna be a lot of disappointment. Fortunately one of my drives has FSX/STEAM.
Ted

[Roger]

Baz, I see ORBX have released Friday Harbour through Steam, but that exclusivity extends for only 3 months and then is available to the real, original FsXers.

Is it correct that those not using the Steam version of FsX will never see the Aztec?

[CODY]

"Ouch"...Just lost a lot of customers...

[bazzar]

Steam is really just a delivery process. I don't understand why people think that something is denied them just because it is delivered in a different way.:engel016:

[Roger]

Steam is really just a delivery process. I don't understand why people think that something is denied them just because it is delivered in a different way.:engel016:

Very cryptic Baz. Are you suggesting that the installer can be fooled for an FsX Gold install?

[bazzar]

Not at all Roger. Let's look at it in reverse. Buy a B17F from us or one of our vendors and let's say you use Steam. What you gonna do...?:engel016:

[CODY]

Steam is really just a delivery process. I don't understand why people think that something is denied them just because it is delivered in a different way.:engel016:
Well...Will it work in FSX or not? I don't have FSX:SE...

[Firekitten]

Steam is really just a delivery process. I don't understand why people think that something is denied them just because it is delivered in a different way.:engel016:

I have FSX boxed, and I have FSX:SE, (both for development testing but I fly P3D3 due to its performance and graphical improvements. So... I'd have to buy this on steam, as DLC through steam, and go break the files out to move it to P3d... which contravenes all sorts of EULA clauses.

Disappointed, because I'd far rather support you guys than Alabeo... especially as your version is almost CERTAIN to perform a heck of a lot better in the sim.

As I said, I understand the business decision, it makes sense, it reaches more people, and a good deal with dovetail is surely going to bring more business to you guys. My grumbles are as a customer only.

Will this apply to your other incoming projects too or is this a unique case?

[bazzar]

You will need Steam Edition to be able to download the Aztec.

Firekitten, this ONLY applies, for now, to the Aztec. All our productions are subject to negotiation, and as you know, apart from releasing ourselves, we build for a variety of publishers.:engel016:

[bazzar]

The point of all of this guys is quite simple. Currently, Dovetail is the FSX franchise's best chance for development and a secure future for years to come. That, we believe is worth supporting. If you disagree, that's fine too. As we say, we have not taken this decision lightly.:engel016:

[Firekitten]

You will need Steam Edition to be able to download the Aztec.

Firekitten, this ONLY applies, for now, to the Aztec. All our productions are subject to negotiation, and as you know, apart from releasing ourselves, we build for a variety of publishers.:engel016:

Ok that's good to know Bazzar, I love the work you guys do.

(excited for your dove!)

[Sundog]

Oh well, no Aztec in my future. Good luck just the same.

[bazzar]

Thankyou, it is certainly going to be an interesting year...:engel016:

[olderndirt]

Oh well, no Aztec in my future. Good luck just the same.

Don't overlook the forthcoming from Alabeo.

[bazzar]

Absolutely. I am sure it will be excellent. BTW if we had made an announcement that the Aztec was being withdrawn for some other, say personal, reason what would people have said then?:engel016:

[Firekitten]

I'd rather have AH's Aztec than Alabeo... better price, performance and quality in my book. Plus its actually paintable rather than being a pelt mapped mess like recent Alabeo planes.

I actually love the direction AH are taking recently... more interesting exciting aircraft rather than another cessna/boeing clone job...

[joe bob]

Oh well, no Aztec in my future. Good luck just the same.

+1


plus 10 other characters

[Stefano Zibell]

Steam scales across currencies much better than anything else you can throw in the mix. In other words, it has prices that make sense across the world, no matter what country you're on, not mentioning all other Steam platform advantages. I understand and support your decision and will probaby get myself a copy =)

[JimmyRFR]

Very interesting development.

There are great upsides to Steam as a content delivery platform. For example, I bought a good amount of TS2016 content in the recent sale, and the install of that content took literally *seconds* of my time, and perhaps 30 minutes worth of download time. Updates to my embarrassingly large Steam library happen with no interaction on my desktop, and whenever I like on my laptop. I have several games that even save to the cloud, letting me play the same save game on my desktop or my laptop.

But even as a heavy Steam user, and one with FSX:SE installed and happily in use for the last several months, I have yet to purchase a single FSX addon through Steam.

I honestly don't know why that is, but it's never interested me in the slightest to do so.

Perhaps there's some sort of mental block there - I'm used to storing and dealing with all of my FSX addons in a certain way, very hands on, very picky, and the thought of relinquishing control to Steam doesn't sit well with me. And yet, I'm more than willing to let Orbx irreversibly muck about in there...

Anyhow... I hope it works out for you. There may well be an Aztec in my future.

[AussieMan]

Day and night shots of the instrument panel and a shot enroute from YMAY to YSCB. More to come later tonight.

[Tako_Kichi]

Not at all Roger. Let's look at it in reverse. Buy a B17F from us or one of our vendors and let's say you use Steam. What you gonna do...?:engel016:
I can install any aircraft, from any vendor (including FS9 port-overs) into my FSX Steam Edition without any difficulties. In fact non of my add-ons have been purchased through Steam and all work fine.

[bazzar]

I have always held the very firm belief that if you buy something, you own it. What you then do with it in the privacy of your own home is entirely your affair. And perish the day that ever changes.:engel016:

[Mach3DS]

So...ALL of my FSX aircraft are installed and work in P3D...are you saying it WILL NOT work in P3D? I respect your decision, but I don't agree that dovetail is the future for our hobby. P3Dv3 is lightyears ahead of FSX...especially v3. And I'm not talking about the avatars. What's under the hood is truly what is amazing. Plus we're talking about the development of the sim by one of the world's largest defense contractors...their revenue stream is alternate and their development does not coincide with retail sales. So they make the best decisions for the sim based on real world needs, not what they hope will make more money. It's really a win win for the hobbyist turned "student" of aeronautics. Anyway. Hopefully it will work...I do like to support the devs around here! We are a small group....further fracturing of it seems counter intuitive. Looks fantastic all the same!

[bazzar]

I would agree Rick, except for one major thing. P3D is not officially a leisure product and until it becomes so cannot represent a secure future for leisure-based simming. As you may be aware, it is a minefield for developers producing leisure market products. Dovetail have declared their intent and that is good enough for me. But as I keep saying, this is a first toe in the water. We'll see what the future brings. Right now Steam is on sale again which represents a pretty cheap entry level to this hobby of ours and hardly a financial risk for anyone.:engel016:

[Sundog]

Don't overlook the forthcoming from Alabeo.

I can't use Alabeo products anymore, they're too intense for my old PC.

[manfredc3]

Well, I understand the decision from a business perspective, but as a customer and a FSX boxed only user it feels like the Aztec release is forcing me in a certain direction, and I don't like being forced.

I did purchase the Steam edition when it was just released, but as a back-up. I will only switch to Steam if I have to re-install FSX boxed edition.

Again, I am disappointed that the AzTec release will only be available to a certain group of customers, but I understand.

[Daube]

I, for one, don't understand the decision from a business perspective.
Of course, making the addon available on Steam is very good. No question about that.
But making it available ONLY on Steam makes no sense at all. Because it will limit the amount of customers. Especially the historic ones.

If you wanted to support Dovetail, a limited-time exclusivity like OrbX does would have been more than sufficient.

[bazzar]

As I have already said, this is a business decision. Without being in possession the facts (which I am certainly not going into here) I am not surprised that you do not understand.:engel016:

[thefrog]

I haven't got FSX-SE so this will be one I won't be getting - having invested heavily in FSX boxed and P3D, I can't justify getting yet another sim just for the occasional add-on. Good luck to AH though.

[keithb77]

Very disappointing, have the Lockheed Electra and was looking forward to the Aztec, won't happen now.
Releasing for Steam is fine, exclusively on Steam leaves a bad taste...
Cheers
Keith

[donnybalonny]

So how many of you guys is now going to buy FSX-SE ?

My main sim is FSX-SE. It works very well and I use it more than P3D, but I dont like this Steam closed environment thing to be honest.

BTW, sweet loking AC, not something I want right now, but thats just me and nothing else.:teapot:

[CodyValkyrie]

As I have already said, this is a business decision. Without being in possession the facts (which I am certainly not going into here) I am not surprised that you do not understand.:engel016:
This sounds very eerily like language used because of an NDA, or something similar, with Dovetail. Sounds like our friend here may be making some official content soon. ;)

[keithb77]

Typically 'exclusive' agreements involve commercial incentives, I suspect this is the case here rather than an NDA. Steam and Dovetail are both known for this I think...

However I do understand it's a challenge to make a living creating flight-sim addons, and every little helps, just trying to give some feedback that it will alienate some customers.

Cheers
Keith

[Firekitten]

So how many of you guys is now going to buy FSX-SE ?

My main sim is FSX-SE. It works very well and I use it more than P3D, but I dont like this Steam closed environment thing to be honest.

BTW, sweet loking AC, not something I want right now, but thats just me and nothing else.:teapot:

Oh Steam isn't a closed environment.

Within your steam folder, common, FSX folder it's the same folder structure as FSX has always been, and just as flexible and open inside.

Steam as a platform is epic. I use it for all my gaming. I LOVE the idea of having my addons in steam too, to just redownload at the click of a button on any pc I choose to put FSX on, but I moved on from FSX, so meh.

Bazzar: A tip, you've made your point abundantly clear, believe me, I totally undersand this choice, from your position as developers, you must do what puts bread on the table, and what means a more secure future for you and your staff. We the customer don't dictate that, no customer should.

But stop repeatedly insisting the same point about it being a business decision every time someone challenges you. You're in the right here, they want an answer? read up to your last post. They can see what you said. Stand behind your words and don't feel you need to defend yourself repeatedly. Your money, your business, your choice.

Anyway, you said very clearly above exactly what most missed... you believe once someone 'buys' something, it's theirs to do with as they wish.

I just hope FSX SE's installation pathway in the installer isn't calling for the SE.exe and can be pointed at say... my fsx:SE instalation on my... erm, desktop? :D Then we're talking.

[zswobbie1]

So, 'officially' for Steam..
Steam's folder construction is the same as FSX..
Does one need a guide dog to lead you??

[Firekitten]

Guide dog's need not apply, however it does depend on how much stuff installs with it, and to what folders and finding everything... if it insists on installing to that directory. Who knows what sound file or module it brought with it... That's the slightly tricky part.

[kiki]

I was waiting for this released and really feel AH let us down.:banghead:

[alehead]

As I understand it, which may be wrong, if the Aztec is exclusive to Steam, then I will need FSX:SE installed and running in order to be able to get the DLC Aztec from AH. Whether I actually use it or not on FSX:SE is not the issue, as I could, post install, just migrate the stuff to my standard FSX install. Fact is, I still need FSX:SE, which I do not have...

Do I understand this correctly? If not, please enlighten me in plain old English... Thanks :applause:

A

[keithb77]

I could, post install, just migrate the stuff to my standard FSX install. Fact is, I still need FSX:SE, which I do not have...

Theoretically, though I've tried to do this with a different product and not yet succeeded. Hopefully I've just missed copying something, but possibly there is a code check in there somewhere.
Note I've done a LOT of moving stuff between P3D, FSX and FSX-SE so I'm not totally clueless...
Also note you don't get to install something with Steam, it just does it for you automatically.
Which is usually for the good.

FSX-SE is regularly availably at 70% discount so literally just a few quid - good, but indicative of Dovetail's cost model - a loss leader to sell a bucket-load of DLC.

And FSX-SE IS better than FSX.

Cheers
Keith

[Firekitten]

question is... is it available through steam, as DLC for fsx:se, or a SE compatible installer... you can do both, and many developers catering to this are offering both or an installer pointed at...

And yes, you can install things into steam games externally, not just FSX.

[jandmbear]

Nothing like following the development of an aircraft you're excited about only to find out you won't be able to get it.......unless you go out and buy another version of the SAME sim you already have. I certainly won't be buying steam because it makes as much sense as buying another house or car exactly like the one you already have just so you can get another color. Just lost a customer AH. Somehow I don't think you'll care very much anyway. Edit: no angel with a halo emoticon response required


truly disappointed FORMER customer here :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

[ToniJH]

Well i will buy Alabeo Aztec, it looks much better than Aeroplane Heaven version.

[heywooood]

Well i will buy Alabeo Aztec, it looks much better than Aeroplane Heaven version.
that was unnecessary

[heywooood]

Nothing like following the development of an aircraft you're excited about only to find out you won't be able to get it.......unless you go out and buy another version of the SAME sim you already have. I certainly won't be buying steam because it makes as much sense as buying another house or car exactly like the one you already have just so you can get another color. Just lost a customer AH. Somehow I don't think you'll care very much anyway. Edit: no angel with a halo emoticon response required


truly disappointed FORMER customer here :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

it would be the same - except if you buy a Steam version of your house or car, you can go anywhere in the world (that has an internet signal) and have your house or car there in seconds - without any additional cost..and if you lose your house or car (or your physical FSX discs) you can just download the Steam version over and over and over - with no added cost.

[ToniJH]

that was unnecessary

Why, that's my opinion?

[keithb77]

Maybe I'm jaundiced, but a Steam-only product will surely only be available through Steam?

Re Alabeo, their products (and Caranedo's) usually LOOK better than competitors, but underneath the eye-candy can be a different experience...

Cheers
Keith

[heywooood]

Why, that's my opinion?

sure - and the reply was mine

[Daveroo]

i dont get all this banter,somewhere up there,if you read Bazzar's reply to fireketten,he said to be patient ,that we would all understand in time...well thats what i got from it,i also feel he was telling us that once AH's commitment to dovetail on this plane..it would become avalible to all platforms...bazzar?..tell me if im way wrong.......but bottomline..for me..i will most likely get the alebo version AND this one in time.

[ToniJH]

I have the Swift from AH, it is nice plane and it is very sad, that they do not going to make Aztec for non-steam version of FSX.

[Kevin Derby]

I have only the FSX / Steam version in my ASUS laptop. I can't load the boxed version of FSX........I have built it up just like it was in my windows 7 rig. I manually install everything. Don't worry. Just move the files in.
:wavey:......and thank you all for all you creations for FSX!

[JimmyRFR]

Personally, I'd be happy if I could get all my FSX content through Steam. A full reinstall of all my FTX products takes literally a couple of days to figure out what's been updated, download new installers, unwrap and install them one by one... Just the thought of how easy that would be in Steam...

:pop4:

Sorry, started daydreaming there. I'm sure I had another point to add to the conversation, but I'll leave it at that, since now I'm kinda depressed!

[JimH]

Maybe I'm jaundiced, but a Steam-only product will surely only be available through Steam?

Re Alabeo, their products (and Caranedo's) usually LOOK better than competitors, but underneath the eye-candy can be a different experience...

Cheers
Keith

The person who is developing the flight model for the Alabeo Aztec is Bernt Stolle, a professional pilot and highly-regarded designer of flight models. Bernt Stolle says that he has a special attachment for the Aztec since it is the plane that he got his multi-engine rating in.

So, I doubt that the Alabeo Aztec will be "a different experience...underneath the eye-candy."

[thunder100]

Sorry to Hijack the thread

I want the Aztec

So if I install FSX steam on my computer ( different hard drive) will that ruin my normal FSX installation as it will overwrite FSX config and such things?

Thanks for an answer

Roland

[Ferry_vO]

Aeroplane Heaven have made a business decision with one of their products, which is their good right to do, like it or not. Depending the results (Sales!) they may or may not change their strategy for future products. Time will tell if they've made the right decision I guess.

[Firekitten]

The person who is developing the flight model for the Alabeo Aztec is Bernt Stolle, a professional pilot and highly-regarded designer of flight models. Bernt Stolle says that he has a special attachment for the Aztec since it is the plane that he got his multi-engine rating in.

So, I doubt that the Alabeo Aztec will be "a different experience...underneath the eye-candy."


Oh, the flight model will be perfect... its Bernt, but it will have the frame performance of a still live drawing in charcoal.

[thefrog]

Oh, the flight model will be perfect... its Bernt, but it will have the frame performance of a still live drawing in charcoal.
Perhaps you should qualify that by adding "on my machine". I get no performance hit with Alabeo on mine.

[Firekitten]

Perhaps you should qualify that by adding "on my machine". I get no performance hit with Alabeo on mine.

I shall qualify that...

I like to fly with pretty scenery, my rig munches the latest AAA studio games on high settings, 8 cores, 16gb ram, dual GTX 660 cards and P3D3.

I like to have more than two trees and a hut to populate a town, with full settings, most addons run perfectly at 40-50fps. Including A2A accusim aircraft. And I mean full... everything on max. It's great. It looks stunning, and it flys smoothly at the aforementioned FPS.

Anything by Alabeo and Carenado released in the last 2 years or so since the Sr22., takes a huge steaming performance dump. Sim performance grinds, and the quality suffers hugely.

qualified enough?

[mmann]

Everyone has different hardware/software drivers, settings, preferences and expectations. On my system (with how I like to configure things) P3Dv3 represented a 30-50% frame rate hit compared with FSX and even at that the anti-aliasing was still far from satisfactory. Consequently I uninstalled it two days ago and will continue with only FSX, until I have a more powerful system. Ironically Alabeo aircraft have a negligible impact on my system.

[henrystreet]

Personally, I'd be happy if I could get all my FSX content through Steam. A full reinstall of all my FTX products takes literally a couple of days to figure out what's been updated, download new installers, unwrap and install them one by one... Just the thought of how easy that would be in Steam...

:pop4:

Sorry, started daydreaming there. I'm sure I had another point to add to the conversation, but I'll leave it at that, since now I'm kinda depressed!

no kidding this would be wonderful!!

[GypsyBaron]

Sorry to Hijack the thread

I want the Aztec

So if I install FSX steam on my computer ( different hard drive) will that ruin my normal FSX installation as it will overwrite FSX config and such things?

Thanks for an answer

Roland

I installed FSX:SE on my system, although it is worthless to me because of the lack of Multiplayer Direct Connect, and I simply
created another user account to install FSX:SE into. That kept it completely isolated from my FSX installation.

This is particularly important for those that have A2A Accu-Sim aircraft and do not want the FSX:SE and FSX aircraft
state and maintenance data to be 'shared' between the two sims, which WILL happen if they are installed in the
same user account.

Paul

[henrystreet]

I installed FSX:SE on my system, although it is worthless to me because of the lack of Multiplayer Direct Connect...

Paul

Paul, from what I've heard, the direct connect is still available but only to a dedicated FSX-SE server. I see the options in the multiplayer section for direct connect.

[GypsyBaron]

Paul, from what I've heard, the direct connect is still available but only to a dedicated FSX-SE server. I see the options in the multiplayer section for direct connect.

Henry, the last time I checked the "Direct Connect" option was there but it did not function at all.

I fly exclusively online on the DigitalThemePark servers with the 91st Bombardment Group and the DTP servers only allow the FSX box version to connect. It seems that DTG changed the multiplayer communications in some way that makes the FSX:SE version incompatible with the boxed version. The two sims can not exist in the same virtual world it seems.

Paul

[henrystreet]

Henry, the last time I checked the "Direct Connect" option was there but it did not function at all.

I fly exclusively online on the DigitalThemePark servers with the 91st Bombardment Group and the DTP servers only allow the FSX box version to connect. It seems that DTG changed the multiplayer communications in some way that makes the FSX:SE version incompatible with the boxed version. The two sims can not exist in the same virtual world it seems.

Paul

Good to know. I have flown online with FSX-SE a couple of times and it was thru a published server.

[Cirrus N210MS]

I wont be re installing FSX SE or FSX I use P3d V3 its way more stable i was looking forward to this aircraft I wont be Buying any More airplane heaven Planes Only Will be geting Carenado and Alabeo There planes work better anyways i liked the Planes i got from AH Though For what they did they lost Me on any Other addons

[JimmyRFR]

Wow. Some very polarized opinions on this page.

Support for one platform over another on a single release from a quality developer hardly qualifies for such vilification. Especially when that developer has a reputation for producing easy to use, unique aircraft and selling them for very reasonable amounts. And, unlike certain other developers, actually interacts with the community.

Give them room folks.

[jandmbear]

it would be the same - except if you buy a Steam version of your house or car, you can go anywhere in the world (that has an internet signal) and have your house or car there in seconds - without any additional cost..and if you lose your house or car (or your physical FSX discs) you can just download the Steam version over and over and over - with no added cost.


Haha!!! Yes, I see myself in the future moving my entire simulator rig to multiple different locations that have wifi. NO

[jandmbear]

Wow. Some very polarized opinions on this page.

Support for one platform over another on a single release from a quality developer hardly qualifies for such vilification. Especially when that developer has a reputation for producing easy to use, unique aircraft and selling them for very reasonable amounts. And, unlike certain other developers, actually interacts with the community.

Give them room folks.

That's how the consumer marketplace works. If a company with dedicated customers makes a big change, they should expect many comments and opinions from their dedicated customers, who have every right to voice their concerns since they've spent money with said company, most of us on multiple occasions. If they can't take the opinions and criticism then that kind of thin skin shouldn't be in the business..

[donnybalonny]

Maybe conclusion could be that we have to many different Flightsims at one time. Just like other spoiled kids we want everything to work everywhere all the time. And let it be dead cheap or free.
Life was easyer in the "good old days":very_drunk:

[ksheadley]

I have three of AH's current offerings and enjoy all of them. It is disappointing that the "Steam Only" delivery has been placed on the Aztec as I was looking forward to the plane. I understand business decisions have to be made, but this just seems to be more of a "mafia" style approach from DTG rather than AH....."You only sell here and we get more FSX customers and you get a bigger cut" or................Yes I agree that Steam will be the future of FSX but to put pressure on LM by these methods (oh wait P3D models aren't backwards compatible) just seems to be too much tit for tat. It's their decision as a retailer and mine as a customer......SMH disappointing

[JimmyRFR]

That's how the consumer marketplace works. If a company with dedicated customers makes a big change, they should expect many comments and opinions from their dedicated customers, who have every right to voice their concerns since they've spent money with said company, most of us on multiple occasions. If they can't take the opinions and criticism then that kind of thin skin shouldn't be in the business..


Except.... we're not talking about purely rational criticism. And as for opinions, as the say goes - opinions are like...

In addition, we're also talking about a developer that continually engages with the community. Want them to stop doing that? Want to create a hostile, toxic environment that they no longer want to be part of? Being a customer does not, in my opinion, give anyone the right to act with a lack of basic decency and respect.

Some of the concerns raised in this thread are expressions of valid thought and respectful opinions. Others, not so much...

[Javis]

I'm just worried about Dovetail ruffling up the feathers of the Dove's tail too. You know what i'm saying ?...

[Ferry_vO]

I'm just worried about Dovetail ruffling up the feathers of the Dove's tail too. You know what i'm saying ?...

The Dove will be released by just Flight, Jan.

:-)

[Javis]

AH! ummmm.... JF! Atta, boy! Thanks! :encouragement:

(because of all the turbulence here must've forgotten about that... been waiting too long for my precious Dove to see it being lured into another dovecote...:smile: )

[bazzar]

I'd like to make something clearer here as it appears some people do not understand what exactly is happening. The Aztec, for now, is the ONLY add-on we make that is exclusively Steam delivered.

If we had not announced an Aztec or had withdrawn it for other reasons nothing would be any different to how it was (and is still).

I am not sure why that one decision merits a withdrawal of patronage but if that is how you feel you are perfectly free to act as you will.

There is nothing sinister in any of this and it certainly has nothing to do with criticism. Anybody who doesn't know our handling of criticism doesn't know us very well at all.Rightnw we could not be happier with the way things are travelling for us and are looking forward to the New Year.

We have at least two more releases due before Christmas and more coming in the New Year. And yes, the Dove will continue to be released by Just Flight, along with anything else we may do for them, in the usual manner.

Hope that clarifies things.:engel016:

[mmann]

I am not sure why that one decision merits a withdrawal of patronage but if that is how you feel you are perfectly free to act as you will.


Maybe someone without FSX:SE was actually planning to buy this? Maybe they don't understand your business decision on this one and are reacting by simply voting with their wallets.

[bazzar]

I guess we'll see.:engel016:

[pilto von pilto]

Maybe someone without FSX:SE was actually planning to buy this? Maybe they don't understand your business decision on this one and are reacting by simply voting with their wallets.

I understand the lack of FSX:SE prohibiting a person from buying a SE exclusive. What is odd, to me at least, is the decision to never buy another product from a producer based on one products availability or otherwise. Which is what Cirrus N210MS is saying. That's a bit like saying " Since you made the P-26 for x-plane and I dont have x-plane I'm never going to buy any of your products ( future or otherwise ) that are for the sim I do own".

That doesnt make sense to me.

And thick skin is a requirement for both developers and customers. We have thick skins. Have to, some of us live in Australia where either the sun is trying to kill you with melanoma or the insects/ snakes/ random koala bears are.

:biggrin-new:

[TuFun]

I understand the lack of FSX:SE prohibiting a person from buying a SE exclusive. What is odd, to me at least, is the decision to never buy another product from a producer based on one products availability or otherwise. Which is what Cirrus N210MS is saying. That's a bit like saying " Since you made the P-26 for x-plane and I dont have x-plane I'm never going to buy any of your products ( future or otherwise ) that are for the sim I do own".

That doesnt make sense to me.

And thick skin is a requirement for both developers and customers. We have thick skins. Have to, some of us live in Australia where either the sun is trying to kill you with melanoma or the insects/ snakes/ random koala bears are.

:biggrin-new:

This... you nail it right on the head!

And who makes planes like this at a price point that is very reasonable!!!

http://www.fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/images/2015/12/04/GrummanF3F.jpg

[henrystreet]

I understand the lack of FSX:SE prohibiting a person from buying a SE exclusive. What is odd, to me at least, is the decision to never buy another product from a producer based on one products availability or otherwise. Which is what Cirrus N210MS is saying. That's a bit like saying " Since you made the P-26 for x-plane and I dont have x-plane I'm never going to buy any of your products ( future or otherwise ) that are for the sim I do own".

That doesnt make sense to me.

And thick skin is a requirement for both developers and customers. We have thick skins. Have to, some of us live in Australia where either the sun is trying to kill you with melanoma or the insects/ snakes/ random koala bears are.

:biggrin-new:

bam...right on the nails head. thanks for getting right to the point.

[AussieMan]

This... you nail it right on the head!

And who makes planes like this at a price point that is very reasonable!!!

http://www.fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/images/2015/12/04/GrummanF3F.jpg

You have nailed it there Ted.

Aeroplane Heaven addons are very affordable. Ii have been buying AH aircraft since the FS9 days and still do when my pension allows it.

[kiki]

Maybe someone without FSX:SE was actually planning to buy this? Maybe they don't understand your business decision on this one and are reacting by simply voting with their wallets.
Exactly. I was hopina that AH would test if they had potential to sell more Aztec that Alabeo. For me it looks like they didn't want to do that. We can only speculate what was the reason for that...

[falcon409]

"Raising my hand back in the corner". . .ooh, ohh, ohh. I'd like to ask what may seem a stupid question, but what exactly is the difference between an aircraft built "exclusively" for FSX/Steam and one built for FSX?

[bazzar]

None Falcon. The Aztec was tested fully in FSX and P3D before we decided on Steam. Steam is the delivery system or what is called downloadable content or DLC.
There are no differences in the model..:engel016:

[falcon409]

None Falcon. The Aztec was tested fully in FSX and P3D before we decided on Steam. Steam is the delivery system or what is called downloadable content or DLC.
There are no differences in the model..:engel016:
Thank you sir!

[keithb77]

Bazza, do you build everything with the FSX SDK?
I know some developers (eg Milviz) build seperate versions for Prepar3D with the Prepar3D SDK...and of course sell them as two seperate models.
But I think FSX-SE uses the FSX SDK unchanged.

Meanwhile I'll wait for the next sale to get your Aztec in SE, saving my money for the Dove which is a must-have (and must be Prepar3D installable)!

Cheers
Keith

[jandmbear]

Except.... we're not talking about purely rational criticism. And as for opinions, as the say goes - opinions are like...

In addition, we're also talking about a developer that continually engages with the community. Want them to stop doing that? Want to create a hostile, toxic environment that they no longer want to be part of? Being a customer does not, in my opinion, give anyone the right to act with a lack of basic decency and respect.

Some of the concerns raised in this thread are expressions of valid thought and respectful opinions. Others, not so much...

puppy dogs and unicorn taints it is then! By your rational my opinion should not be allowed because it wasn't "nice enough". I'll still offer it because I am one of their customers and I would assume they want customer feedback. It seems though that they have now become Dovetail's customer. Pretty obvious as a matter of fact.

[bazzar]

Bazza, do you build everything with the FSX SDK?
I know some developers (eg Milviz) build seperate versions for Prepar3D with the Prepar3D SDK...and of course sell them as two seperate models.
But I think FSX-SE uses the FSX SDK unchanged.

Meanwhile I'll wait for the next sale to get your Aztec in SE, saving my money for the Dove which is a must-have (and must be Prepar3D installable)!

Cheers
Keith

Not everything Keith no, depends on the end use. Dove will be P3D compatible as with all our upcoming developments. BTW it's not technically our Dove anymore it's Just Flight's which if jandmbear is to be believed, would make us Just Flight's customer, obviously.:engel016:

[donnybalonny]

Oh Steam isn't a closed environment.

Within your steam folder, common, FSX folder it's the same folder structure as FSX has always been, and just as flexible and open inside.

Steam as a platform is epic. I use it for all my gaming. I LOVE the idea of having my addons in steam too, to just redownload at the click of a button on any pc I choose to put FSX on, but I moved on from FSX, so meh.

Bazzar: A tip, you've made your point abundantly clear, believe me, I totally undersand this choice, from your position as developers, you must do what puts bread on the table, and what means a more secure future for you and your staff. We the customer don't dictate that, no customer should.

But stop repeatedly insisting the same point about it being a business decision every time someone challenges you. You're in the right here, they want an answer? read up to your last post. They can see what you said. Stand behind your words and don't feel you need to defend yourself repeatedly. Your money, your business, your choice.

Anyway, you said very clearly above exactly what most missed... you believe once someone 'buys' something, it's theirs to do with as they wish.

I just hope FSX SE's installation pathway in the installer isn't calling for the SE.exe and can be pointed at say... my fsx:SE instalation on my... erm, desktop? :D Then we're talking.


IMHO, this is the most intelligent post in this thread so far. No reasons to get angry or upset and no reason to defend anything.

[stansdds]

I suppose if they find that they sell very few copies of the Aztec by Steam alone, it will be a lesson learned.

[Stefano Zibell]

Well, I'll buy a copy and do my part to make sure that does not happen.

[stovall]

This thread has been educational for me. I don't have or use Steam. Actually because of the multitude of possibilities available (FSX, P3D 2.5 and P3D v3) I have not even looked at it. Thanks for all the input helping me to understand what Steam is and how it is used. Bazzar, thanks for all you do for our hobby. Looking forward to your releases before Jan 1 and next year. :encouragement:

[b52bob]

I, for one, think that Steam is great. For $5 I don't have to worry about scratched disks, etc. I also find the prices for addons at Steam very reasonable, most under $20 and many under $10.

i think this is a way that someone can calculate how much business can be attained through Steam vs. other means. It also cuts down on pirating as some new releases are on the boards before the first day of release is over. Good luck to Bazzar and I hope that we can get some kind of feedback on how this works.

is there going to be a P3D version released?

one last comment. There should be a dedicated place for Steam instead of just a rehash of FSX:SE problems on the FSX board.

just my penny's worth.

Bob

[JimH]

I am using FSX boxed. So I must admit that I'm a little miffed at AH's decision to market their Aztec exclusively on Steam - but only because the AH Aztec looks like a very nice plane. If it were crappy, I wouldn't care.

[jandmbear]

Alabeo's looks pretty promising. Since they won't require me to buy a different version of the same sim I already have, I'll be buying theirs..

[bazzar]

Entirely your prerogative and exactly what we expect. Choice is what keeps us all going and should be supported.:engel016:

[AussieMan]

For those crying tears into their breakfast cereal over the Aztec there is an aircraft so close to the Aztec that externally there is only a minor difference. Have a look at the Eaglesoft Twin Commanche. Works fine in FSX and P3D V3.

I have had it for several years now and only reinstalled it in FS Steam for comparison to the Aztec while I was testing it for Bazz. From a distance they are almost identical unless you look closely at the engine nacelles.

Also I think that some people here need to review their posts before they post them. Some are bordering on Developer bashing which will only send them away. It is a developers choice as to where they sell their products. I actually see no difference between Just Flight commissioning Aeroplane Heaven to produce aircraft for them of it is DTG. Bazz has been around since the FS9 days producing some wonderful models. As a matter of fact I have most of them but these days being an aged pensioner with health and mobility problems I have to be selective with what I buy whether it is AH, JF, Carenado or even ORBX.

So I suggest you be very careful with your critism as we do not want to see this great hobby die because a few hot heads have driven all the developers away.

[DaveB]

That's easy to say for someone who's a beta tester and has FSX:SE!

It wouldn't be the end of the world if AH went exclusively to Steam but it could be considered a slap in the face for their loyal followers who don't have that particular platform. Doesn't bother me as I'm also careful what I buy and don't want an Aztec. I didn't buy the B17 or Electra either but I did buy the F3F and will buy the Hawk when it's available at JF. Some folk are more easily wound up than others I guess:biggrin-new:
ATB
DaveB:)

[flaviossa]

I have FSX-SE but i´m not buying DLC´s. I prefer buy the planes "the old way". I don´t know if they correct it, but the DLC instalation process was horrible and more than one time it corrupted my .cfg´s files.

[Mach3DS]

I don't own SE, I'm not even sure that I won't someday own it either, in some form...but I honestly do not like the DLC thing. It's a complete waste of my $$ in my opinion. I learned the hard way with Direct2Drive. I "purchased" 2 full games through them....now no longer in business and my downloads are worthless as there is no way to activate them since the web authentication system no longer exists...and THIS is the rub. If Dovetail or whoever becomes the new owners....you'll be completely out of luck down the road. I'm a much more by the book simmer and consider myself more hard core than casual...and I've spent far too much money in FS to lose it to these ridiculous DLC's...I despise the premise, which essentially is this, they take your money, give you a feel good about owning something, but you don't...then something goes wrong and *poof* you magically no longer own anything. No thanks. I too prefer the "old way" where I own the physical installer not requiring a third party....although VRS stands alone in this regard....too bad too...but others I simply won't do. I'd like to be able to install my software on a computer in a cabin with NO internet and still be able to fly. This isn't an AH issue for me, it's way beyond one developer, who BTW IMHO is getting the brunt end of criticisms which I think have more to do with this issue than their particular airplane. I find their products and service fantastic and wish them well in every endeavor. I think this issue has simply caught the spark of the overall community sentiment in general (obviously). IF the DLC gives you the options to have copy the installer to a disk for backup without the need to authentical via internet later, than great...I may change my mind...but not likely. ..sigh... ok...that's all...(steps down from beaten horse) :santahat:

[bazzar]

I think you have an excellent understanding of the issue Rick and thanks for the support. Criticism we can take, we're old and ugly enough to deal with that. What I object to greatly is the abuse and downright rudeness from some people, which is just unnecessary. Especially when you consider the actual dollars involved. It's a hardly a third world problem is it?

We like all businesses like to try different things to see where the future may lie. To not do so is in my opinion, commercial suicide. Of course we understand there will be backlash against our decision, we prepared for that. Do people really think we would be that stupid not to?

Anyway, constructive criticism always welcome, abusive emails (yes there have been emails like that from people here - you know who you are) not welcome and will not be tolerated. Childish, immature and stupid behaviour.

[Firekitten]

I don't own SE, I'm not even sure that I won't someday own it either, in some form...but I honestly do not like the DLC thing. It's a complete waste of my $$ in my opinion. I learned the hard way with Direct2Drive. I "purchased" 2 full games through them....now no longer in business and my downloads are worthless as there is no way to activate them since the web authentication system no longer exists...and THIS is the rub. If Dovetail or whoever becomes the new owners....you'll be completely out of luck down the road. I'm a much more by the book simmer and consider myself more hard core than casual...and I've spent far too much money in FS to lose it to these ridiculous DLC's...I despise the premise, which essentially is this, they take your money, give you a feel good about owning something, but you don't...then something goes wrong and *poof* you magically no longer own anything. No thanks. I too prefer the "old way" where I own the physical installer not requiring a third party....although VRS stands alone in this regard....too bad too...but others I simply won't do. I'd like to be able to install my software on a computer in a cabin with NO internet and still be able to fly. This isn't an AH issue for me, it's way beyond one developer, who BTW IMHO is getting the brunt end of criticisms which I think have more to do with this issue than their particular airplane. I find their products and service fantastic and wish them well in every endeavor. I think this issue has simply caught the spark of the overall community sentiment in general (obviously). IF the DLC gives you the options to have copy the installer to a disk for backup without the need to authentical via internet later, than great...I may change my mind...but not likely. ..sigh... ok...that's all...(steps down from beaten horse) :santahat:

If it was a platform other than steam, perhaps.

Steam is as big as PC gaming now, and unlikely to go anywhere.

Even if Dovetail were to go away, anything you owned through steam, would remain on steam. Steam games exist even with defunct developers. They remain supported.

The platform is possibly the best one for it.

Is it the easiest way to deliver FS content? God yes. It takes all the stress out of the users hands, which solves 80% of support issues, it also makes patch delivery stupidly easy for DLC/addons and the base game.

Flight simmers do seem somewhat reluctant to trust steam, but believe me, the game community at large got over that about 10 years ago.

I own SE, I just don't use it with owning P3D. Which has a similar online delivery of patches, and the rest doesn't bother me.

Digital download, delivery, and support is the future.

[tankerguy72]

Ive kinda been following this and I have to say as a business owner you sometimes have to do and "try" new things and its impossible to keep everyone happy. I think its kind of a good sign in some respect with the criticism as that shows alot of people like your product. I totally understand trying a new direction and planning for the future for your business, we need to keep all the developers we can. I have FSX, FSX Steam and now just picked up P3D and from what Ive seen the same files I put in FSX I can put in Steam and they ones from Steam can go into FSX :adoration: Best of luck and I hope it works out.

[kiki]

I am unhappy simply because I wanted this one and will not go to Steam. If it would have been - let's say C172 - from another vendor, I didn't care a damn.

[bazzar]

and right there, my friends, is the real issue. If this had been say, a Fairey Barracuda, I doubt whether many people would have given a damn.
If you really want to drive an Aztec in Prepar3D then I am sure Alabeo's will float your boat.:engel016:

[Firekitten]

I think a Barracuda would have been a huge hit to to be fair...

Thing is, a lot of customers prefer you guys to alabeo.

We don't 'want' Alabeos if you're doing one... that's actually a huge compliment to you guys. Given the choice... we'd prefer your product.

As has been said many times, we understand the business decision, heck, I've been privy to a similar situation recently too, only it was never announced first, hype built, THEN announced as steam only.

It was quiet, came out as steam, zero fuss made.

I think people saw this coming, were excited and happy, then had it taken away. That I think is the real issue.

As for people running P3d... I'm going to install SE just to download yours then move it to P3D. Because rather than alabeo.

[fsxar177]

Though disappointing, I cannot question why the AH team has made this decision. The model looks fabulous, and I'm sure I'll pick it up regardless. However, I am curious as to the financial benefit of said decision. From a developers standpoint. Maybe you could shed some light baz?

- Joseph

[bazzar]

nice try Joseph....:biggrin-new:

[thefrog]

I think a Barracuda would have been a huge hit to to be fair...

Thing is, a lot of customers prefer you guys to alabeo.

We don't 'want' Alabeos if you're doing one... that's actually a huge compliment to you guys. Given the choice... we'd prefer your product.

As has been said many times, we understand the business decision, heck, I've been privy to a similar situation recently too, only it was never announced first, hype built, THEN announced as steam only.

It was quiet, came out as steam, zero fuss made.

I think people saw this coming, were excited and happy, then had it taken away. That I think is the real issue.

As for people running P3d... I'm going to install SE just to download yours then move it to P3D. Because rather than alabeo.

Well I don't dislike Alabeo, quite the opposite. I don't think any developer deserves to be bashed on this forum.

[wombat666]

Well I don't dislike Alabeo, quite the opposite. I don't think any developer deserves to be bashed on this forum.

How true indeed!
Nor should a developer's decision regarding how they decide to market their products be subject to carping criticism.
There appears to be an unhealthy trend toward 'Elitism' within the Flight Sim community, be it certain developers or simmers.
Unless a subject is released which requires the operator to spend 30 or more minutes to go through a pre-flight check it is regarded by the 'Elite' as unworthy.
Total immersion is demanded.
On the other hand, less demanding users are happy to kick the tyres and light the fires, for which less complex aircraft are a simple pleasure.
We all have a choice, so bear that in mind when criticizing a developer who turns out a product which is not to your taste, be it complex or straight forward.
It costs nothing to be polite.

'CHOICE'........What a great privilege!
:triumphant:

Fairey Barracuda????
Fugly.

[joe bob]

If Bernt Stolle is doing the Alabeo then it is going to be top notch. He is the best in the business for my money.
(not saying others are bad)

[hairyspin]

Bazzar said his reasons would become clear in time. Perhaps all those steaming about this should look at the Newshawks forum: I think some explanation will be found there.

[Chuck_Jodry-VJPL]

Bazz, looking over your product line i gather this is your first SE release, its always good to test the water but youre often able to find out how's the swimming by asking others who took a dip in that pond, i really gotta wonder if you did.

Best CJ

[henrystreet]

Baz,

Good for you. As functioning member of that new fangled Facebookie thing, I will tell you there is a whole new market out there for FSX-SE. They are hungry for product and do not feel the need for all the tedious FSX voodoo.

Best of luck in this project.

[Firekitten]

Well I don't dislike Alabeo, quite the opposite. I don't think any developer deserves to be bashed on this forum.

Do please try to understand the meaning of the word 'bash' before you throw it at someone like a poison tipped spear.

Disagreeing, stating one dislikes, or prefers another, is not bashing.

Needlessly insulting for no reason, is bashing, stating an opinion, and clarifying, is not.

[stovall]

Thanks Firekitten, I have been watching this thread closely especially seeing the word bashing. So far the thread has been very instructional for me and I hope others. It would seem much as been learned by all regarding Steam. Appreciate all keeping things upbeat and informative.

[huub vink]

Please stay on the subject and don't make it bigger than it actually is. I personally think that Rachel said it all very well in the second post of this thread.

I don't think anything said here will make Bazzar change his plan and personally I really don't think he has a reason to do so. So please respect his choice.

This thread made me think. What will I do when my FSX install crashes? will I reinstall from the collection of disks I have. (I have purchased Acceleration separately). Or will I make it easy for myself and go for the steam edition? Perhaps asking the question is answering it.

The things I have via Steam always work without any problem. Updates are installed automatically. What does a man need more.

Cheers,
Huub

[bazzar]

Bazz, looking over your product line i gather this is your first SE release, its always good to test the water but youre often able to find out how's the swimming by asking others who took a dip in that pond, i really gotta wonder if you did.

Best CJ

Hi Chuck,

Actually, no, the Swift is in for release, going through QA as we speak. It's taking a little time but I understand that licensing issues have to be dealt with. We have indeed done our research and have asked others, had a lengthy dialogue with the guys at DG and so on. I'm too old and ugly to be doing things lightly anymore but rest assured, I still remember where I put my thinking cap. Hope all is well with you.:engel016:

[stovall]

Thanks to all for your input. This threat has served its purpose and will close.

Several moderators have voiced concern over critical comments about the Aztec being released as a Steam edition. For myself, I have found the thread very informative with no actual rules being broken. I have heard directly from Bazzar wishing the thread to continue in a productive way so I am reopening the thread. Again, thanks for all the informative comments.

[zswobbie1]

Bazz, well done for taking this step, justifying it & sticking to it.
Phew, as usual some of us simmers, hobbyists, call us what you will, have stood up to the plate & supported you, whilst others have critisized you business decision. We are a bunch of moaners, are we not?

Anyhow, this is just in support, even tho' I still run FS9 as well as P3D, so, this release does not affect me.
Thanks for all you have done for our hobby, keep up the good work, & I hope that you have not been disheartened by some of these posts.(As we say here in South Africa, ' Chill, & have a dop! (dop = drink in our second language, normally brandy & coke!!!)

Cheers & Good Lock,
Robin

[bazzar]

Hi Robin,

It's going to take a whole heap more than what's gone down so far to get me down mate. We're happy with what we have and I hope people will continue to be happy with what we provide. That's all we can ask and definitely all we can expect. Party on people, heck it's nearly Christmas!:engel016::very_drunk:

[robert41]

Thought I might share my opinions with Steam.
I have no problems with using Steam. But at present, I have no need for Steam. I am happy with my flight sims right now without Steam. This may change in the future.

[donnybalonny]

Just a parallel question and mostly because i cant remember:

How long was everyone screaming for FS2004 compitability when FSX was the simulator that was being sold as new?

In the past we had a new sim every 2 years and the old one was slowly being phased out. Now, FSX is 9 years old. It has been officially been unsupported by the makers for I cant remember how many years. You can only buy new copies on the "speculation" market for sky high prices. Basically its dead and has been so for years.
That doesnt mean that its bad and I fully understand those having a well working install want to keep using it. But those develloping for the flightsim community and especially those who make it for a living HAVE to look forward and there´s no FSX box there. If not, they will not survive and our little hobby will be poorer one.

I wrote this in order to put things a little bit in perspective.
(I use FSX-SE and P3D)
DB

[Firekitten]

Again the point was somewhat missed there. Those complaining aren't demanding Fs9 compatibility in a fsx age, FSX Steam Edition models, and files, and structure are identical to FSX, and 100% P3D compatible, those complaining are irritated that the delivery method makes transferring to other sims awkward WITH FSX:SE, and impossible without it (product bought through steam client only accessible from the SE product owned page).

That's what they're annoyed with. End of the day, FSX:SE, boxed and P3d are all the same sim at heart, dead or living.

[robert41]

To further expand on this, from what I have read on other forums, that products brought through Steam are encoded and will not work with any other platform: SP2, Acceleration, P3D.
This clearly limits the product to Steam users only.
As it is now, there are many simmers that do not use Steam.
I would think that developers would want to provide their product for all flight sim users?

[Killbilly]

What we need is a way for boxed users to convert their product to Steam if they so choose. I'm sure great things are coming for SE in the future, but I refuse to re-purchase (even for only $20) a product I already own. I would be more willing to convert over. Otherwise, as long as my install is working well, or until something on SE makes it really worth it, I'll stick with what I have and, regrettably, take a pass on the Aztec.

[fsxar177]

If the financial benefit is significant, than I applaud Baz and the AH team for testing the waters with the Aztec release. I only assume, that it must be. And that's great. It would be nice if they could admit that.

- Joseph

[Alan_A]

If the financial benefit is significant, than I applaud Baz and the AH team for testing the waters with the Aztec release. I only assume, that it must be. And that's great. It would be nice if they could admit that.

- Joseph

But maybe it isn't. Maybe it's more of a market test. Companies do that all the time - release test products in select regions or distribution channels to see how they do. So possibly there's nothing to admit.

[Firekitten]

What we need is a way for boxed users to convert their product to Steam if they so choose. I'm sure great things are coming for SE in the future, but I refuse to re-purchase (even for only $20) a product I already own. I would be more willing to convert over. Otherwise, as long as my install is working well, or until something on SE makes it really worth it, I'll stick with what I have and, regrettably, take a pass on the Aztec.
Its regularly on sale for less than $10... sometimes 5.

If that's too much, enjoy your boxed edition.

[bazzar]

If the financial benefit is significant, than I applaud Baz and the AH team for testing the waters with the Aztec release. I only assume, that it must be. And that's great. It would be nice if they could admit that.

- Joseph

Sorry Joseph but I am not going to discuss our financial affairs on a public forum any more than I would discuss my bowel movements for the morning.:engel016:

[thefrog]

Sorry Joseph but I am not going to discuss our financial affairs on a public forum any more than I would discuss my bowel movements for the morning.:engel016:

I'm very relieved to hear it...

[bazzar]

:applause::applause::applause::biggrin-new:

[napacon]

FSX DISK....FSX STEAM..the same program..a now a 10 year old game.....Microsoft has abandoned us,along with "FLIGHT'.. Steam has resurrected it...lots of new simmers out there..and to many price is everything....Personally? I run both..I find Steam with an imperceptible edge...both mirror each other..Absolutely no difference..I own it , with no Disks or paranoid codes,scratches to fumble with..And until the next generation of desk top flight simulator comes along?? Its all we got...Now an old game....However Glad we got it!!...HAVE FUN !!

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/beana51/12307573_1016207881756117_3695878251546611243_o_zp sbsmduza7.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/beana51/media/12307573_1016207881756117_3695878251546611243_o_zp sbsmduza7.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/beana51/screenshot1127_zps36fjrhyq.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/beana51/media/screenshot1127_zps36fjrhyq.jpg.html)

[Corpse_Grinder]

I have stayed out of this up to this point, but I am glad to see the discussion starting to go in a more positive direction. :encouragement:

I don't feel the need to defend AH or Bazz. When it comes to AH products, the proof is in the pudding...beautiful and functional models, at affordable prices. To me, the delivery does not matter, though I do understand the apprehension of customers having to use a new platform.

This being said, I have had the privilege of being on the beta team for this aircraft. All I can say is, if you buy it....you will not be disappointed. If you choose not to....you're missing out on a lovely (and in our hobby, long awaited) aircraft.


:icon29::icon29:

[FlameOut]

Is Amazon Prime really trying to rape the customer with that New price of $219.99 :a1310: for FSX Gold !

[napacon]

DITTO E-BAY...These are rare now.. soon none to be had anywhere!And are in demand..a sellers Market.and their are buyers...Those with the cash? no problem for others its FSX SE...They do Not make them no mo!!..sentimental antique value!!

[Wayland]

Fwiw, that isn't Amazon itself, it's an Amazon associate vendor. who set their own prices, all Amazon does is payment processing and shipping.

[fsxar177]

Anyone know when the Aztec will be officially available?

[zswobbie1]

Is Amazon Prime really trying to rape the customer with that New price of $219.99 :a1310: for FSX Gold !

What a silly comment! Nobody is being forced to buy it! Just normal market forces in play.

This is so typical of flight simmers, & has been shown many times..
'We have been raped!'
'Microsoft has abandoned us,along with "FLIGHT" '
I want 64bit
I'm not buying from you anymore because .... (fill in whatever is appropriate!
the list goes on & on.

Who are we to feel that we have this entitlement to demand whatever we think Microsoft, the industry, the developers owe us?
let's face it, we are actually a very small niche market in the total scheme of things, & we throw our toys out of our cots when we feel that we are not getting what we demand and/or think what we are owed, as seen in this thread & many others.

It should be obvious to all that ACES Gaming Studio was closed because, in the greater scheme of things at Microsoft, it was no longer viable.
It should also be obvious that it was a great business decision by Microsoft to license out a 9 year old (at the time) redundant game to DTG, who chose the largest gaming distributor to re-distribute a slightly modified game! So, MS no longer has to deal with the likes of us, well, they never really did anyway, & they are saving a huge amount of money by no longer having world wide stock holdings, distribution, etc for an old redundant (to them) game. So, great for their shareholders.

It has been a great test for DTG to re-distribute FSX. It will be interesting to see what, if anything will transpire with their own sim, if it eventually appears.
It should be obvious to all as well that, distibution is via Steam, the largest gaming community out there, & for them to monetize their product successfully, it is the gamers, as they are a far larger market than us fly-boys (& girls) that should be targeted.

So, where does it leave us? Thanks to Bazz for marketing an amazing product via the largest distributor, as well as all the others that are still developing for us , be it FS9 (still), FSX, FSX:SE & dare I mention it, P3D, as well as the amazing freeware guys out there.

Guys, no-one out there owes us anything, or is forcing us to buy anything. We are not being ' raped'!!
Get over it, it's only a game (well, the box has a 3+ age on it, it comes from a gaming studio, the latest version is marketed by the same guys that do fishing & train sims, & distributed by the largest gaming distributor!!)

'Sigh', I'm REALLY gonna get bashed for stirring up that hornet's net again, so I'm off to get my bowl of popcorn.....
:banghead:

[donnybalonny]

To me, FSX box and FSX-SE are two completely different programs.

I had FSX box week one, back when it was released. It worked really bad, so back to FS2004. Two years later on a new PC, it could run, but it was an endless fight to keep it working and a lot of time fiddling with tweaks, where most where useless.
After a sim-break, I came back to FS2004 for a long time, then directly over to P3Dv2. I finally bought FSX-SE for 5,-€ downloaded over the night. It installed automatically and I have absolutely no problems with it.

I dont care if the core is the same as FSX, the use is sooo different from what I have experienced with the box version. And I´m not the only one with this opinion.

What a develloper releases is his/her choice just as the place they decide to release it.
I´m not in the market for the Aztec, but after this very interesting thread, I´m starting to get curious,.... so . looking forward to the release.:santahat:

[huub vink]

There were days when I preferred to have my add-ons on CD. Problems with updates made me realise that downloads were perhaps more practical, as I could put the original files and updates in one (back-up) folder. Why should that only be applicable for my add-ons and not for the original program?

And this is what steam has to say about it:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/314160/discussions/1/626329820730080279/

Not just about the Aztec of course...............

And we even have a dedicated FSX-SE sub-forum here at SOH. Obviously SE runs quite smooth as it isn't too busy there.

I'm not at FSX-SE as I'm just too lazy to reinstall all my add-ons.

Cheers,
Huub

[ksheadley]

Well the Aztec is out on Steam...it is also encoded for steam only and will not show models in P3D....and I am sure once a support forum gets going, the gps and avionics will not display. Beautiful model but very disappointing out of the gate and unless someone figures out how to port it to P3D it will probably collect dust as I do not use steam that often anymore. Sorry Baz, great model, but if I can't use it but just on steam, then it was a wasted purchase. I support what you do and appreciate your work, just can't be locked to one platfom.

[bazzar]

That's interesting, if the modern avionics are not there, it means you should have a logo panel blanking plate where the GPS would be. Click that and the avionics switch out to the modern stuff.:engel016:

[ksheadley]

That's interesting, if the modern avionics are not there, it means you should have a logo panel blanking plate where the GPS would be. Click that and the avionics switch out to the modern stuff.:engel016:

The avionics are there and can switch between the blank panel and the modern stuff, it's just that the avionics themselves don't come on. You can flip the avionics master and you can see the faintest of color change to the gps screen, but there is no display. Not sure what the issue is Baz.

edit.....got them working Baz, may have been a steam issue as steam was being wonky not having used it for so long...force closed steam and let everything re-initialise and things worked.....go figure.

[bazzar]

Glad you got it sorted. Yes there will be odd differences with Steam, it's the same for some versions of P3D and between FSX and Acceleration, SP1,SP2 etc etc.
There's usually a simple solution but knowing it is a different thing!:engel016:

[Corpse_Grinder]

I do hope that if people choose to migrate this bird after purchase it works well. Baz and his team have hit a home run with this bird IMHO. And for the sale price...I hope everyone can have this gem in their hangar. Bravo AH. :applouse::engel016:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32909&stc=1http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32910&stc=1

[napacon]

Yes $ 9 Bucks Cheap..Nice Paints..Flys like a any FSX standard model..on final with full flaps falls like a rock...its The cockpit i have real Issues.Avionics will not display ..good to see yours is functioning..mine are not..Has no Maps or any of the Cockpit sim Features most models do ..And if anyone can tell me where is the FILE for this..I cannot find it...Could Use Help here!!....Do! Still like this plane yes..Am i Happy with this Rendition of the PA-23 ..no ! ..however My Issues must have answers..hope to find the answers here ..thnx!

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/beana51/screenshot1149_zpsxhlxhpkr.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/beana51/media/screenshot1149_zpsxhlxhpkr.jpg.html)


http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/beana51/screenshot1148_zpshobdersu.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/beana51/media/screenshot1148_zpshobdersu.jpg.html)

[bazzar]

The Aztec cockpit is fully featured.

a) are the master battery switches on?
b) Have you actually turned each unit on with the correct knobs and switches?
c) Have you read the manual?

[AussieMan]

napacon, I have had the Aztec since its beta stages and have had no problems with the avionics. You may need to hide the yoke (click on the silver bar above the switches) to access some of the switches.

The battery is obvious. The Avionics switch has a cover which you need to click on to access the Avionics switch. Once the Avionics have been turned on you need to go to each item and turn them on individually. The power switches are clearly marked. To turn on each avionic item you need to click and hold the mouse button and drag the mouse to the right to turn on and to the left to turn off.

If this fails ****.

[ksheadley]

I do hope that if people choose to migrate this bird after purchase it works well. Baz and his team have hit a home run with this bird IMHO. And for the sale price...I hope everyone can have this gem in their hangar. Bravo AH. :applouse::engel016:



Once I got it all working properly, It is a wonderfully crafted plane. Migration has proved difficult so I presume I am missing something in the process if it indeed was tested in P3D......I'm guessing a file hidden in the steam install.......maybe I will find that little birdie that will whisper in my ear where the files are:santahat:

[napacon]

YES OK Now thanks
AussieMan (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/member.php?1795-AussieMan)
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/statusicon1/user-offline.png
and others..Yes a Fine model....BUT ,and there is always a BUT..I still cannot locate the file in sim-objects/airplanes?? Any thoughts?....Merry Christmas to all!

[Bradburger]

Well, the A2A Aircraft Factory Albatross I bought on Steam is in the 'DLC' folder in my FSXSE directory.

I would assume the Aztec is installed in the 'SimObjects' folder in there!

Cheers

Paul

[napacon]

Well Thnx BRADBURGER,,,Yes hidden away in the "DLC FILES"...Never had this happen..Live and learn..ALL WELL THAT ENDS WELL
..Merry Christmas!!

[Bradburger]

Well Thnx BRADBURGER,,,Yes hidden away in the "DLC FILES"...Never had this happen..Live and learn..ALL WELL THAT ENDS WELL
..Merry Christmas!!

No problems napcon.

It took me a while to figure it out, even though I had seen the 'DLC' folder previously and took it to be the place the Steam purchased FSX SE addons were installed!

Merry Christmas!

Cheers

Paul

[ksheadley]

Well I'm still stumped as P3D won't show the visual model.....must be missing something I presume....still tinkering....but it does look good in steam

[henrystreet]

Well I'm still stumped as P3D won't show the visual model.....must be missing something I presume....still tinkering....but it does look good in steam

FSX-SE addons sold thru Steam have DRM embedded to prevent them from being used outside of the FSX-SE environment.

[ksheadley]

FSX-SE addons sold thru Steam have DRM embedded to prevent them from being used outside of the FSX-SE environment.

Well then that was my fear when Baz announced the SE only but eluded to the conception of once paid for it was yours and it did work in P3D and boxed FSX so.............I'm going to slink away now because my thoughts about this whole SE only mess are not very pure nor rated PG.

[keithb77]

In fairness I think the Steam DRM would be added after AH handed it over - other beta testers (reportedly) have it working perfectly in P3D.
Maybe AH didn't realise this would happen...

Still on the fence.

All the screenshots on Steam show aircraft with no markings, even the screenshots on this thread show only a partial registration (suspiciously like AH-???) - do the included textures have registrations?

Cheers
Keith

[AussieMan]

All the test models had registrations. One was AH- EAVN.

[keithb77]

All the test models had registrations. One was AH- EAVN.
Hopefully the others were real world and not MKY-MSE type
Wonder what the Steam screenshots are of then...maybe DTG painted them all over...
Thanks
Keith

[Bushpounder]

The betas had the AH, 1- CS- aircraft (Portugal), 2 - ZK- aircraft (New Zealand), 1 - N aircraft (U.S.)

Don

[Corpse_Grinder]

My first attempt at a repaint of this bird. Still WIP...

Thanks AH! I'm loving it! :ernaehrung004:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32943&stc=1