VOR navigation in the JF Lockheed Electra V1.01

[donnybalonny]

Hi
I have installed the patched version v 1.01 and I´m as confused as ever when it comes to navigating with VOR in this AC.

I just did a short flight between some VOR and an ADF in another AC that i know well. Easy stuff.
Then I restarted the sim and tried to do the same in the Electra, and what a mess. The first VOR on Nav1 was ok, but then the next, on nav2 and swithcing to nav2 on the switch besides the upper Radio Direction Finder (RDF) didnt show anything even though the VOR was some 20 nm away. I then tuned it on Nav1 and swithed again with no result. It simply wouldnt take that vor. Then I tuned the first VOR that had worked before on Nav1 and no result even though that was also just some 15 - 20nm away. It turned around with the ADF needle when I was turning. Then I tried a3rd VOR further away and yes, that was caught on the upper RDF on Nav1.

So, there´s of course a chance that I´m to stupid for this aircraft or that my system has freaked out, but the system and I can vor navigate with other AC. So I have 3 questions:

1) Has anyone had succes with vor navigation between various VOR stations using this aircraft?
2) what about the other RDF, the one below called radio compass, what does it do and which radio is it connected to? I sometimes got a signal on it, but most of the time, the needles were just static.
3)Does the ILS gauge has any funcion at all besides looking old fashion?

[thefrog]

1. (P3D v2.5) On the NAV1/2/ADF gauge, the ADF needle works OK, but it points 180 degrees the wrong way, so the tail points to the NDB. The NAV1/2 needle works ok, but as with the ADF, you have to rotate the compass card to your current heading to get a bearing - I presume that this is correct for the type of gauge.
2. See page 8 of the manual: Radio compass – the red needle displays NAV1, the green needle displays NAV 2. This works some of the time for me, but is unreliable.
3. I can't get the ILS to work at all in FSX or P3D.

Cheers
Dave

[bazzar]

Here I am flying a short trip from Guernsey to Jersey.

The VOR frequency is 110.3
The NDB (ADF) is 329

Are you remembering to move from standby to active?
Is the avionics switch on?

Also, please remember that this is a vintage aircraft and did not come in real life with modern style avionics. If you wish to fly ILS and complex waypoint work, this aircraft was not produced for that.We only added the VOR stuff to give people a taste of cross-country navigation. It should really come with no Nav aids beyond the simple Sperry GyroPilot.

This is a very nice video produced by a customer. Have a look. He understands the aircraft and is very helpful for those who don't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c13xgWWnz_Q

[thefrog]

Hi Bazzar

I'm attaching a screenshot from FSX with NAV1 and ADF set up like yours approaching Jersey. The VOR gauges work fine pointing to the ILS for 09. The actual ILS gauge does not move at all. The ADF points the wrong way by 180 degrees. I notice that several gauges including the NAV1/NAV2/ADF and the RMI gauges look different on your screenshot.

I take your point that radio nav is not really appropriate for this aircraft, but as the instruments are there, I would think that they should work properly. Otherwise it could be a bit dangerous!

I could not find anything in the Youtube video that related to radio navigation though.

Don't take my previous post the wrong way though: I love flying this aircraft. Your team has done a great job on it.

Dave

[napacon]

Lets not forget Darling Amelia got Killed in this plane....VINTAGE means OLD .Primitive ,.her DEAD RECKONING was just that....A VFR Plane ...What you see out there ,is what you get...This A great Model..and like anything new? it may have some issues!..today we call them RECALLS..And recalls will FIX all..

[bazzar]

No worries, I will check it all out and a SP will be happening. Stay tuned, sorry about the pun.:engel016:

[sim-paticissimo]

Please, fix also the magnetic compass, it rotates to the opposite way than the real one.

[sim-paticissimo]

This is not an addon, it's "The Addon", for all of us electra10-addicted it's a masterpiece, and it's very, very well modelled!
But we hope that it'll be perfect!
And... I think that the manifold pressure/props RPM should be tuned also, please, take a look at this cockpit pictures, of an Electra 10L restored, they are quite clear. At maximum power, lower power and a zoomed view to see the gauges.

Thank you for your work!

[donnybalonny]

Bazzar,
thanks for the explanation I will take a closer look to what I might do wrong, but I think I do what you say.
But its not of much help showing screenshots of an AC with totally different gauges than the one that we the costumers have. I would like to have those gauges as well.
Finally, the lower RMI, the radio compas, which radio´s is it linked to.

And finally, In my initial post, I´m not bashing the AC. I´m trying to understand what is going wrong.

[thefrog]

>>Finally, the lower RMI, the radio compas, which radio´s is it linked to.

See my answer to your question in post #2.

[donnybalonny]

Thanks, thefrog. I agree, the radio compas is unreliable to say the least.

[srgalahad]

This is not an addon, it's "The Addon", for all of us electra10-addicted it's a masterpiece, and it's very, very well modelled!
But we hope that it'll be perfect!
And... I think that the manifold pressure/props RPM should be tuned also, please, take a look at this cockpit pictures, of an Electra 10L restored, they are quite clear. At maximum power, lower power and a zoomed view to see the gauges.

Thank you for your work!

Technically, the Electra you reference with the pictures is not "restored", but "restored and modernized" much in the same way older cars are refurbished but with modern things like disc brakes added. The question was raised and answered in the other L-10 thread
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?96141-JF-Lockheed-Electra-released!&p=980502&viewfull=1#post980502

It is worth noting that the same "issue" was discussed in the development of of the FS9/FSX Lockheed 18 thread
(part of the discussion starts with this post...)
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?60836-A-Lockheed-quot-Rounder-quot&p=977615&viewfull=1#post977615

In the 1930's there was no rule-making about a standardized cockpit and control layouts so engineers built to users' requirements and preferences as well as their own logic. Numerous aircraft had engine controls that worked "opposite" to common, modern practice - not only some Lockheeds but other US, British and German types as well. The FS cockpit tool tips may show contrary readings but those are based on the default settings and calibration of the FS controls (back is less, forward is more) which is derived from modern practice.

Aircraft that have been rebuilt and are required to meet modern certification as well as to be used in a 'standardized' modern crew environment will typically have controls that work in the 'conventional' modern way.

I, for one, appreciate it when a modeling team builds an authentic model of a vintage aircraft as it was when it left the factory. In fact, if I have a beef about the early Lockheeds in FS it is that the base models haven't been spare enough. Certainly it is convenient for modern pilots to have familiar things - like VOR and ADF as well as control operation - but part of the fun and challenge of flying vintage aircraft is learning how it was done "back then", and learning about the advances we've made in the last 80 or 90 years, as well as how difficult it might have been for the original pilots. If one looks at old timetables, it can be seen that many schedules were day-only simply because navaids didn't exist to enable night/IFR navigation except at some peril. If there's a desire to have modern equipment the simple solution is to add a pop-up panel for such items (with functioning modern gauges) - yes, it may spoil the visual immersion but it preserves the historical accuracy which can be just as important. Of course those who choose to run the sim in full-screen mode might not be able to offload the popups to a second monitor but, hey, that's a matter of choice.

[sim-paticissimo]

Thank you for your reply srgalahad, but I didn't say that I'd like to have some rstored cockpit! I like too much the realistic, historic and the well modelled cockpit. I only put at the develpers attention my dubts about the behaviors of the MAP and the RPM.

[donnybalonny]

I, for one, appreciate it when a modeling team builds an authentic model of a vintage aircraft as it was when it left the factory. In fact, if I have a beef about the early Lockheeds in FS it is that the base models haven't been spare enough. Certainly it is convenient for modern pilots to have familiar things - like VOR and ADF as well as control operation - but part of the fun and challenge of flying vintage aircraft is learning how it was done "back then", and learning about the advances we've made in the last 80 or 90 years, as well as how difficult it might have been for the original pilots. If one looks at old timetables, it can be seen that many schedules were day-only simply because navaids didn't exist to enable night/IFR navigation except at some peril. If there's a desire to have modern equipment the simple solution is to add a pop-up panel for such items (with functioning modern gauges) - yes, it may spoil the visual immersion but it preserves the historical accuracy which can be just as important. Of course those who choose to run the sim in full-screen mode might not be able to offload the popups to a second monitor but, hey, that's a matter of choice.


I totally agree, but when a payware aircraft is send on the market, I think the gauges that comes with the AC should work. Its not an excuse to say that aircraft of that time didnt have that kind of instrumentation. Following that way of thinking, the logical consequense would be not to have those gauges in the AC. And it could have saved me and many others a lot of time trying to find out what is going on instead of getting tired of the addon before starting to enjoy it. IMHO, its a poor business policy

So after sevice pack 1 there are 3 navigation gauges. 1 works, another is unreliable and the last one doesnt funcion. (hmmmmmmmmm) Maybe a way of fixing that would be to quit the radio compas and the ILS gauge, make a hole, where we the users can put a picture of our dog, Mona Lisa, a pinup, a Brabham racing car, the Eifel tower, whatever. Then at least it would have some kind of a fun element. :watermelon:

[bazzar]

As I have already stated, an SP is being prepared. I would like to add that it seems that the value of this package now somewhat forgotten. What you get for your $19 is still pretty amazing in my humble opinion. We will fix the issues and it will be right but in comparison to the cost of most add-ons in this hobby, a sense of proportion would be nice. I shall not be commenting further here. Please watch for updates at the Just Flight site. Thanks to all for the comments.

[thefrog]

An extraordinary reaction from the developer to some reasoned comments about the Electra. No-one is saying they don't appreciate this aircraft and the work that has gone into it - quite the opposite, judging by everyone's comments. Would he would prefer it if there was no interest, if no-one commented at all, apart from meaningless flattery and loads of repaints? At least the threads here demonstrate that people are interested in this aircraft and want to help correct the tiny problems that they have found.

[stovall]

Looks like this thread has played out its usefulness. As far as the last post about extraordinary comments. Let me tell you Bazzar is an extraordinary developer and we are thankful for the tremendous creations that he brings forth. Thanks Baz for all your hard work.