Edwards AFB circa 1960 WIP

[delta_lima]

No sure how much interest there will be here for this, but here goes ...

I've longed for a backdated KEDW/Dryden Flight Research Centre for ages. Inspired partially by Bernie Bockheim's amazing Cape Canaveral 1962-1964 project (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?95295-1962-1964-Cape-Canaveral-an-FSX-first!) , I've been motivated to develop my first project for public release. I've pottered about and backdated a few MAIW sceneries using older hangars to roughly resemble the Cold War counterpart, but this would (hopefully) be up to the standards worthy of the SOH community.

I chose the "1960" date to loosely represent a scenery that could be useful for folks flying 50s era test flying through to the 60s. Naturally, there'll be some compromises (see below) but I'm looking to capture the flavor of this early-mid 60s period:

27817

27814

27816

27815


So far, I've collected some of the potentially useful scenery objects, plus have had a couple critical objects kindly custom-developed for this scenery. So the main pieces are pretty well ready for assembly. But I have a problem that I'd like your suggestions/input on.

Recently, I discovered BlueSky Scenery, which from a terrain standpoint, has radically improved the SoCal and surrounding regions. The catch is that by its nature, there are photorealistic components from the present world, that need to be removed somehow for a "retro" scenery to work. I only see three options:

1) Develop the base using the BlueSky scenery, and simply accept that those modern buildings/structures will be there,

2) Develop the base using the BlueSky scenery, and using ADE, place some retro period items atop the offending items, so at least there'll be a retro-looking item in its place, or

3) Develop the base using stock scenery/terrain.


Personally, I don't know that I could live with option 1). Option 2) would create a highly unrealistic version, with modern "densification" using older structures. Purists would probably not appreciate that compromise. Option 3) means losing the great terrain enhancements available for the region.

Any other options/suggestions anyone can think of?

Thanks.

dl

[Mach3DS]

I'm doing an updated Snoopy for that B-58 in the last photo. :) Almost ready too. Some good results in last nights work.

[YoYo]

Very nice idea, fingers crossed!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Jfader_dryden.jpg

[delta_lima]

Thanks all!

Rick, am a big fan of all you've done for the Hustler - Looking forward to Snoopy!! Yoyo - thanks - I've had that same image a while now, and it's likely my leading guide so far.

The big issue I'm hoping to get ideas on, though, is the BlueSky scenery conflict - specifically, the photo-rendered "new buildings". Would my option 2) offend anyone, as the middle ground to both utilizing this great terrain and trying to "erase" the modern buildings?

thanks,

dl

[ST0RM]

Keen interest in this project. Love that era in aviation as it seemed we could put out new aircraft in such little time. Always expanding the boundaries.

Looking forward to your progress.

-Jeff

[henrystreet]

Thanks all!

Rick, am a big fan of all you've done for the Hustler - Looking forward to Snoopy!! Yoyo - thanks - I've had that same image a while now, and it's likely my leading guide so far.

The big issue I'm hoping to get ideas on, though, is the BlueSky scenery conflict - specifically, the photo-rendered "new buildings". Would my option 2) offend anyone, as the middle ground to both utilizing this great terrain and trying to "erase" the modern buildings?

thanks,

dl

Regards the photoscenery part, I've had several requests to produce a retro version of Lemoore, so this issue has played out in my scenarios as well.

As I understand, the image format in the BGL files is encrypted to prevent extraction. But it would be possible to get modern imagery (TIFF, BMP, JPEG) from USGS or other source. Color match it to BlueSky, then "photoshop" thru time to 1960. Create a custom blend mask to delineate and match into the BlueSky (larger) base image.

I did a test with KNTU that assembled a dozen or so USGS images and MegaScenery base and the concept is workable just a bit tedious.

Good luck with your project, based on what I've heard from the community, there is good demand for anything KEDW and low supply.

[Mach3DS]

I am completely with on this one. I very much wish that more devs would go the flight test, x-planes etc. route occasionally. It's sorely missed in FS. It's a complete branch of aviation that is apart from the xtremeprototypes, mostly missing. Same thing goes for the Prototypes and one offs...I get it...they're not big sellers...but as far as scenery goes. The entire southwest USA really needs to be done justice. Specifically Nevada, with autogen, and So Cal, with autogen and seasons. Seasons is a must. These 2 locations are where most of all the major advances in aviation came. I would really love to see them!

[henrystreet]

The entire southwest USA really needs to be done justice. Specifically Nevada, with autogen, and So Cal, with autogen and seasons.

Ultimate VFR photoscenery has autogen and night lighting. The color balance and resolution is excellent (no seasons tho). Unfortunately, Arizona is as far west as it goes in that part of the country. (KNYL looks pretty good with it!)

[blkbart]

No sure how much interest there will be here for this, but here goes ...

I've longed for a backdated KEDW/Dryden Flight Research Centre for ages. Inspired partially by Bernie Bockheim's amazing Cape Canaveral 1962-1964 project (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?95295-1962-1964-Cape-Canaveral-an-FSX-first!) , I've been motivated to develop my first project for public release. I've pottered about and backdated a few MAIW sceneries using older hangars to roughly resemble the Cold War counterpart, but this would (hopefully) be up to the standards worthy of the SOH community.

I chose the "1960" date to loosely represent a scenery that could be useful for folks flying 50s era test flying through to the 60s. Naturally, there'll be some compromises (see below) but I'm looking to capture the flavor of this early-mid 60s period:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27817&stc=1

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27814&stc=1

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27816&stc=1

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27815&stc=1


So far, I've collected some of the potentially useful scenery objects, plus have had a couple critical objects kindly custom-developed for this scenery. So the main pieces are pretty well ready for assembly. But I have a problem that I'd like your suggestions/input on.

Recently, I discovered BlueSky Scenery, which from a terrain standpoint, has radically improved the SoCal and surrounding regions. The catch is that by its nature, there are photorealistic components from the present world, that need to be removed somehow for a "retro" scenery to work. I only see three options:

1) Develop the base using the BlueSky scenery, and simply accept that those modern buildings/structures will be there,

2) Develop the base using the BlueSky scenery, and using ADE, place some retro period items atop the offending items, so at least there'll be a retro-looking item in its place, or

3) Develop the base using stock scenery/terrain.


Personally, I don't know that I could live with option 1). Option 2) would create a highly unrealistic version, with modern "densification" using older structures. Purists would probably not appreciate that compromise. Option 3) means losing the great terrain enhancements available for the region.

Any other options/suggestions anyone can think of?

Thanks.

dl

I do virtually all of my FSX flying in the timeframe 1950 to 1965. To me, photoreal scenery is an absolute must as a background and I use BlueSky Scenery extensively.

My approach is a combination of your options (1) and (2). I just accept that some of the modern images imbedded in the scenery I will have to live with. In the case of modern buildings/structures that are scenery objects, I will exclude them where possible or search through scenery files to find offending .bgl's and delete them.

Similar to your option 2, I use Instant Object Studio to create "objects" to place over offending items that are shown in the photoreal background. Basically, I take a screenshot of uncluttered terrain on or around the airport, import the image into the program, and create a model that I place over the offending items. The terrain "objects" are square and can be sized.
This method works OK for me but leaves a lot to be desired. Placing square objects over curved images can look a bit clunky and the scenery objects often flash like neon signs when seen from altitude.

The best solution, in my opinion (if it existed), would be to work from within ADEX or AFX and be able to import photoreal images to create apron polys to cover offending items. Un fortunately, the stock greens, browns, and other colors provided in the programs are of limited utility but in some cases look better than the modern images.

I look forward to whatever you come up with.

[roger-wilco-66]

Wonderful stuff! Looking very much forward.

I've had that on my own dev back burner for quite a while and collected some reference material for that, maybe it is useful for you:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fuosb1alzbte8k1/AAB1nrb_KgRF21goowoQX8-Ha?dl=0


https://www.dropbox.com/s/i6yio0ce6xbbdbi/4583227348_7cd0ac32d5_o.jpg?dl=1

[Bjoern]

Even though it'd not really be period-accurate, it could be fun nonetheless for a few classic test aircraft such as this one:

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/pdf/88788main_D-558.pdf
http://www.classicwings.net/douglas_skystreak.html

[delta_lima]

Even though it'd not really be period-accurate, it could be fun nonetheless for a few classic test aircraft such as this one:

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/pdf/88788main_D-558.pdf
http://www.classicwings.net/douglas_skystreak.html


Actually, while I have to "peg" a year or period, really, my hope is for the scenery to be as much a home for the crazy mid-50s higher/faster programmes, all the way to the more structured X-15, XB-70 and other such programmes of the 60s. So the type and size of hangars will reflect that period as much as my limited skills can provide.

And btw, that D-558 was, after the Alphasim F-8, my most favourite beta project ever. I'm so grateful to Craig for taking it on, and for allowing me a small hand in comparing the model to period materials I had on it. I miss that model terribly in FSX, since even with the fixes out there, it never worked right in Acceleration (for me). But it's a looker, for sure. The D-558-2 would be a treat, and even more so, if some of the lifting bodies ever came to FSX, which apart from the Piglet's X-24A, and a bit a roughish M2-F1, are virtually non-existent. A pipe dream, I think, so instead, I'll just try and crack out something I can do something about.

Thanks Rog - there are a couple of images there I hadn't seen before - great resource! :encouragement:

Thanks to the rest for the terrain feedback. Henry, thanks for spelling out another option. That one is, alas, beyond my scope of ability at this time. Unless some kind soul has the ability to take the BlueSky tile in question (AZ_North3West8_FSX) and somehow "erase" all man-made items out except for the compass rose, and maybe the runways - that would be a perfect case scenario - but unfortunately not one I can do at this time.

Still, I'm falling off the fence to the side of integrating it with BlueSky. It'll mean a very painful "planting over" of something atop every offending modern texture - so that'll compromise accuracy - but I think that's the lesser of the various evils.

Last night, I started mucking about with the existing AFCAD (I managed to overwrite it, btw:banghead:) with my temporary test version by accident. If some kind soul can upload the stock one, to save me hunting for it in on the disk(s), that would be great. Not the end of the world, since I'm committed to not have the modern KEDW - but there are a couple of reference points from the original that I was hoping to have kept.

It's supposed to rain nonstop this weekend here in Vancouver, so while my family is sad we won't go hiking, it means I might have some more time for this project ... :wiggle:

cheers,

dl

[trucker17]

Awesome news. Thaks for the info. Please keep up posted on the developments

[Bjoern]

Actually, while I have to "peg" a year or period, really, my hope is for the scenery to be as much a home for the crazy mid-50s higher/faster programmes, all the way to the more structured X-15, XB-70 and other such programmes of the 60s. So the type and size of hangars will reflect that period as much as my limited skills can provide.

If the only difference between the periods is the amount of hangars, changing periods isn't that hard.
Even removing runway markings to reflect the "wild" late 40s would only be a matter of editing the ADE layout.


And btw, that D-558 was, after the Alphasim F-8, my most favourite beta project ever. I'm so grateful to Craig for taking it on, and for allowing me a small hand in comparing the model to period materials I had on it. I miss that model terribly in FSX, since even with the fixes out there, it never worked right in Acceleration (for me). But it's a looker, for sure. The D-558-2 would be a treat, and even more so, if some of the lifting bodies ever came to FSX, which apart from the Piglet's X-24A, and a bit a roughish M2-F1, are virtually non-existent. A pipe dream, I think, so instead, I'll just try and crack out something I can do something about.

Unless there's something significant about the design (X-1, X-15, X-24), experimental aircraft are too much of a niche.
The propulsion system adds a few problems to the equation, especially if you consider a jet/rocket mix. Also, the entire "carry and drop" thing requires some serious workring around the limits of MSFS.

I haven't had problems with the D-558 in FSX, but it's been a while since I've tested (heh) it.

[delta_lima]

No worries. And if someone comes along and wants to "retro" it even further for a more 45-55 period, that's fine by me.

There's about a dozen or so critical buildings that are common through both the 1945-1955 period and the 60-65 period, so who knows. Maybe if there's demand, I'll do both. The temptation is there, inasmuch as it might make sense to align it with the typical Calclassic periods, where for a lot of their airports and AI there are versions covering the 1957, 1959, and 1962. So a "1955" version and a "1965" version could be feasible. Will see.

A lot can be achieved through what static and or AI aircraft are used, and that's a whole other area of embellishment I haven't allowed myself to even begin contemplating until the more critical foundations are laid, metaphorically and literally.

dl

[delta_lima]

Accomplished:

1) evaluating pros/cons of Bluesky. Almost ditched the idea of Bluesky, since it forces me to add a VERY modern RW 4L/22R runway, plus it makes the project way harder. Oh well.

2) played about with some object selection. Here's the main hangars, and a replacement tower. Objects are not placed for accuracy - just messing about to see what they look like.

DFRC hangars and admin building - front entrance: I've got some funky flickering going on with the windows, will see if that can get fixed. Still, in a funny way, it's my favourite building so far. The "front entrance" - which actually faces opposite the flightline/lake turned out really awesome, I think.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j187/delta_lima/FS%20screens/Retro%20Edwards%20AFB/2015-8-28_23-56-12-581_zpse4hkomvr.png (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/delta_lima/media/FS%20screens/Retro%20Edwards%20AFB/2015-8-28_23-56-12-581_zpse4hkomvr.png.html)

and the opposite side, facing the flightline (note, I placed them backwards, and over by the AFTC side of the base - ignore that) - when I visited, I viewed the flightline from outside the lefthand hangar, never thought to look back at the admin building to see what kind of doors/windows were there ... looks like it could use something, I just don't have data on what those look like ... :kilroy:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j187/delta_lima/FS%20screens/Retro%20Edwards%20AFB/2015-8-28_23-57-11-310_zpslqcfydtb.png (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/delta_lima/media/FS%20screens/Retro%20Edwards%20AFB/2015-8-28_23-57-11-310_zpslqcfydtb.png.html)


The proposed old style tower:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j187/delta_lima/FS%20screens/Retro%20Edwards%20AFB/2015-8-28_23-58-49-386_zpswuxf6tib.png (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/delta_lima/media/FS%20screens/Retro%20Edwards%20AFB/2015-8-28_23-58-49-386_zpswuxf6tib.png.html)

Note contrast with existing new tower in the background. Comparing with photo with both (again, ignore position) It's not a dead match, but close enough. I may have to scale it up.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Edwards_AFB_control_tower.jpg

Will post more in a few days ...

Best regards,

DL

[pilto von pilto]

This is going to be good. One of my favourite era's at one of my favourite bases. I'll be following closely all developments.

[delta_lima]

So... bad news, good news, and a (hopefully) small request:

So am slowly getting back into FSX after a spate of sickness and death in our family. Have to be honest - lost a lot interest - but with what 000Rick000 has done with the GH A-12, the passion is slowly rekindling. Time is very limited, but what time I have is going to restarting this project.

OK - so the bad news is I've lost the buildings in the WIPs that Randy (RDaniell, RIP) did for me shortly before he passed away. By some freakish accident, the bgls I created with them, as well as their occurrence in the scenery library, and the files themselves, all got irreversibly corrupted on my hdd somehow. I wanted to do this project partly as a tribute to him, and it's infuriated me that I've lost the ability to use the work he so kindly, diligently, and selflessly offered mere weeks before his passing.

But, if I know Randy, he'd want me to carry on, so am going to push on, with the use of some other MAIW and/or Calclassic hangar objects instead. So I'm assembling a new set of "LEGO" blocks to play with and plugging on. That's the good news.

So the small request is for a scenery repainter who is willing to make a couple of small but visually important texture paint tweaks to a hangar texture. Specifically, a tweak to the front hangar textures to add some numbers and logos. If someone can assist with a couple of paint fixes, I'd be much obliged. I've tried using Paint, but the blend of the logo to the wall is very crude, and am hoping this will be simpler for a pro. Full credit of course, will be given.

Finally, a decision on the terrain texture issue I raised earlier. I've decided to not use the Bluesky tiles. It's a shame, since the natural scenery enhancements are so dramatic. But the inclusion of so much "modern" building and parking lot density in photorealistic form just doesn't work with the periods in question. I say period"S" because I'm contemplating a 1955 version and a 1965 version - still thinking about that. If there's any suggestions on scenery enhancements other than Bluesky that DON'T introduce modern buildings etc., I'm all ears.


At this point, I'm fueled as much to finish this for Randy's sake, and the sake of all of you great modellers and repainters who over the years have taken requests for subjects of particular interest as I am for my own interest sake. With the recent A-12, possible YF-12, and/or a small-wing U-2 - there's a whole confluence of reasons why it'd be good to have an FSX retro'ed KEDW.

Stay tuned,

DL

[Mach3DS]

Looking forward to it DL!

[Bookman1960]

I'm willing to assist with painting.
You have pm.

[delta_lima]

I'm willing to assist with painting.
You have pm.

Thanks very kindly, BMan! PM replied to.


Looking forward to it DL!

This one has guys like you mind!


dl

[Dimus]

Hi DL!

I just saw this thread. Randy was a good friend and is sorely missed. I'd love to help if I can. Making buildings or textures is fine with me. Editing photoreal ground is also doable. Let me know.

[delta_lima]

Hi DL!

I just saw this thread. Randy was a good friend and is sorely missed. I'd love to help if I can. Making buildings or textures is fine with me. Editing photoreal ground is also doable. Let me know.

Thanks Dimus!

Getting a dream-team of rockstars here :applause: PM me with your email address whenever you're ready. I'm a week or two away from finishing my next steps, I admit I didn't expect the interest would be this high!

thanks!

dl

[delta_lima]

About to get on a plane for a couple weeks' worth of vacation - but figured I'd give a quick update.

Got a good number of interested members with offers of repainting and other help - thanks a bunch to you all. As part of assembling the requisite core hangar and other object models, I've received a very kind gift / contribution to this project from none other than John Young. Yes that John Young. No, not the astronaut. Even better ... :redfire: Scenery and AI guru John Young :very_drunk:

Here's the custom hangars that you'll see as part of NACA KEDW '55 and NASA KEDW '65:

52015

52014

But wait, there's more. Bernie Bockeim, who did the amazing Cape Canaveral 1962 Scenery (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/95295-1962-1964-Cape-Canaveral-an-FSX-first!?highlight=cape) ... has given permission for his custom objects to be made available in my scenery! There's some great hangars, vehicles, and other goodies we can pull into this project.

Thanks John and Bernie, and the various repainters and other helpers who've come forward. Once I return, get all the objection selections and permissions sorted, you'll begin to see some progress.

See you in August,

DL

[mal998]

Great rendition of one of Muroc's old hangers.

52021

[Navy Chief]

Looks great, DL!

Your hangar screenshots remind me of the hangars in FS9 that you could open/close the doors, merely by tuning to a certain frequency. I had asked about this ability in FSX, but can't remember what the replies were....? NC

[Dimus]

This can be done using SODE, the trigger for opening not necessarily being the frequency but any event. I intend to study it and examine the possibilities for custom event triggered animations.

[Mach3DS]

Any updates on this one?

[delta_lima]

Any updates on this one?

Hello Rick,

Sorry for lack of (visible) progress. It turns out I had errors in the AFCAD layout of my South Base vs North Base. Not a lot of great documentation of how the buildings were arranged back in the 50s period, so a lot of time has gone into gleaning what building was on which side of the base.

Silver lining is that yet another very talented building designer has stepped up with some help on some of the other buildings. Still working out a lot of behind-the-scenes details on that. But at least the John Young-supplied hangars are pinned, and the repainters who've stepped up will likely get some work in the coming months.

Been busy with family stuff and my other hobby (motorcycling) , so I suspect the bulk of the exciting work worth showing will begin in earnest in Oct.

But the fires are stoked, it'll get done.

Thanks!

dl

ps - Rick - I can't wait to give your enhanced XP-54 some more flight time as the spotter aircraft for this project. Will be a perfect "what if"" fit, at least for the 50's NACA period.

[Mach3DS]

DL, the updated XP-54 is available here. Requires Milton's base package + the one he submitted on my behalf. It contains the metal texture along with global bump maps and speculars for all liveries.

A couple of aircraft I'd like to see flying out here when it's finished in no particular order:

1. F-86D/L/K
2. X-15
3. XP-56
4. XP-54
5. F-86
6. XF-82A
7. X-24B
8. XF5U-1
9. X-1
10. XF-91

Some are available, some not. But still would like to see all these in sim one day! How's things going on the project?

[lazarus]

I was always going to send this, always managed to get side tracked on various minor jobs as overthrowing small governments and gunrunning...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bymd7iALx2FoTFhTRW1DX21zUUE

It's the KBT B-52D. Stalled, as Mr KBT is difficult to get a reply out of. Haven't got 'round to Balls Eight yet, which will come sooner or later- unless the states shock troopers get lucky:biggrin-new: and I have to work out a couple of odds and sods for dropping an X-15 and having it land more or less intact- a version of one of the missile solutions as a droppable object.
Are you going to put in the Happy Bottom Riding Club out at the west end of the runway? I noticed in one of the Edwards photo scenery packages that vestiges of the pool, strip and foundation outlines are present. The pool is still out there, out in the world. Poor 'ol Pancho, she sure got dicked over by the airforce in the end.

[delta_lima]

Thanks Laz and Rick!

Things are a bit quiet due to lots of business travel of late, but am slowly picking away. Having wrapped up a payware beta testing commitment will free up some time, too.

Happy Bottom Club? Wasn't on my list, already have scope creep due to another airfield I'm likely going to add. But it would sure fit right into the period(s) in question. If that B-52 is not hard on frames, I'll certainly add it as AI for the 60s period. Thanks so much for submitting that.

Rick, all those planes are among my favourites that I'd love to see out there. D nose Sabres, and anything lifting body related. Thankfully, there's a decent X-1 payware and great X-15 payware product out there, and a few odds and sods that fit in nicely - like the XP-54.

cheers,

dl

[lazarus]

The B-52 is buttery on frames, really, it's a very nice model- low drawcalls, not over complicated. Not much for systems, but I'm of the light up, toss the match down the tail pipe and blast off school of thought. How glorious were the days of stick, compass, ASI and clock! No baulky FMS, no airways, no bitchy ATC, no conga line of low-hour diaper clad RJ herders running up ones arse and bean counters sweating if the engines run one minute past ETA...
Lemme tell you, aviation isn't much fun anymore.
Piglet's X-24 in native is over at simviation, as is Ito-Sans Sabre Dog, Alpha's F-84. T-birds out the wazzo, H-21's, C-124's, Providers, C-97's, H-19's... The situation for freeware iron is really pretty good.
On the hangar door front, if you can break your hangar doors out into a separate model file, or files if it's in left and right halfs, I can bang those through FSDS and MCX to use CIMOGT's door and elevator gauge, that's an easy hack.
I'm actually feeling motivated to get on Balls Eight, sort out the X-15 drop and modify the missile solution, as I'm frustrated up to the I-balls chasing ship deck crash and effects bugs around.