Working on AVG Historical missions

[HouseHobbit]

I am (re) doing a set of Historical AVG/Burma missions in Rising Sun. ( never released)
Getting the facilities Built and placed so there will be lots of eye candy.
Many Thanks to the Rising Sun team, and Rob, for the Brewster Buffalo Mk I used in this set of historical missions
Brewster Buffalo Mk I

Model by Steve (Sdsbolt) Seybolt
Textures by John (Bravo/4) Whelan
Mos File by Rob (Capt. Winters) Stevenson
XDP compilation, research by Rob (Capt. Winters) Stevenson
Help files by Rob (Capt. Winters) Stevenson
Flight Model By Ted (Nachtpiloten) Kaniuka

A couple of older screenshots, and new ones with the shaders added from Master Ankor.

[rocketred]

AMAZING .... YOU are making history on such , great ,,,, variations of missions and growth on the building front .


thank you from canada and the global community

[Ivan]

Hello HouseHobbit,

Nice looking Hawk 81s.

Minor detail comment though: I am fairly certain that the P-40C equivalent aircraft that were sent to China for the AVG were not capable of using drop tanks. IIRC, that was an item of equipment deleted by Curtiss for these export aircraft because they didn't have such a requirement.

On a barely related note, I am reworking a CFS1 Curtiss-Wright CW-21B. There were a couple of those flown by the AVG as well.

- Ivan.

[HouseHobbit]

Ivan, I have removed them in the final set up for these
More Rejoicing!
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Animal]

:applause:Thanks HH!

[TheBookie]

Hello HouseHobbit,

Nice looking Hawk 81s.

Minor detail comment though: I am fairly certain that the P-40C equivalent aircraft that were sent to China for the AVG were not capable of using drop tanks. IIRC, that was an item of equipment deleted by Curtiss for these export aircraft because they didn't have such a requirement.

On a barely related note, I am reworking a CFS1 Curtiss-Wright CW-21B. There were a couple of those flown by the AVG as well.

- Ivan.

Actually the P-40C was able to have a drop tank or carry a bomb.The AVG was originally used the P-40b which could not have a drop tank or carry bombs.The B model also just had a make shift gun sight made of steel.In April/May 1942 they got some P-40E models

To bad some of Japanese planes are not available for the AVG.

Ki-27 Nate-Available
K--43 Oscar-Available
Ki-44-Available
Ki-48 Lily now available
Ki-45 Toryu-Not available
Ki-21 Sally -not available would probably need to use the Betty
Ki-30 Ann-not available Could probably get away with the new Ki-32 Mary.

[HouseHobbit]

WOW!! Been a long time since I built facilities, But have the needed items in CFS3 Rising Sun expansion to make this all look very good.
Giving the Japs a hard time of it, also have Japanese missions and a couple of Chinese ones too now.
Updated all the old missions I built last year for this set, when the ETO 1.50 expansion update took over my time.
Changed them so much that they are much different then what I sent out to be tested over a year ago..
After i get this set done, I will have to adjust the Shader from Master Ankor some for this
Off to wreck more Birds.
More rejoicing!!
:applause:

[TheBookie]

In that 1 pic is that a Zero?

If it is the AVG never encountered the Zero.The Zero was pulled from the CBI before Pearl Harbor.

[HouseHobbit]

I have different years represented, and also Chinese, Australian and RAF missions and a couple Japanese missions.
May put a couple of my world infamous, Hysterical Hobbit missions in too.
Too Much fun.
More Rejoicing!
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Ivan]

Actually the P-40C was able to have a drop tank or carry a bomb.The AVG was originally used the P-40b which could not have a drop tank or carry bombs.The B model also just had a make shift gun sight made of steel.In April/May 1942 they got some P-40E models


Hello TheBookie,

My understanding of the AVG Hawk 81 fighters is a bit different.

First of all, they were originally British contract fighters which the British were willing to give up for later model aircraft.
That explains the crooked Pitot Tube on the wing instead of the straight Pitot used by the USAAF aircraft.
They were not officially called P-40; instead they were called "Hawk 81A-4" if I remember correctly. There were no other users of the Hawk 81A-4 besides than the AVG.

The actual serial numbers of the aircraft however actually fall within the P-40C range. The problem with calling them P-40Cs is that they were not equipped as P-40Cs.
I believe that a few years back, Erik Shilling who flew with the AVG posted that as a pilot, he could confirm that the Fuselage Fuel Tank had external self sealing coating which would indicate P-40B equivalent and that the fuel selector had no position for a drop tank.

From other reading, the explanation appears to be the following:
Curtiss knew that there were no real specifications standards for the equipment to be installed in the Chinese Hawk-81s, so they used it as an opportunity to use up older pieces that were no longer suitable to install in current contract fighters. Thus the equipment installed varied a bit from the contemporary British and American contract aircraft. There was also some comment about the Government Furnished Equipment (GFE) being a bit inconsistent, especially the engines and guns.

So what were these aircraft really? By serial number, they were P-40Cs. By equipment installed, they were pretty much unique.

Hope that makes sense.
- Ivan.

[Ivan]

In that 1 pic is that a Zero?

If it is the AVG never encountered the Zero.The Zero was pulled from the CBI before Pearl Harbor.

Never encountered the A6M Type 0 in combat, but they captured a couple of them. One of them was repaired, test flown and then shipped back to the United States. I believe the ones they captured were the typical Gray Green without any splotches. I believe the captured aircraft originated from bases in Taiwan and were not operating intentionally in the CBI but ended up there because of navigational error.

The AVG captured aircraft can be recognized by the odd scalloped vents on a panel in the accessory area behind the engine. Apparently that panel was lost and a custom had to be constructed. The aircraft was heavily damaged in transit back to the USA and was not repaired for flight testing in US before the Aleutian Zero flew.

- Ivan.

[HouseHobbit]

Ivan, TheBookie, if you want some historical missions to be added to this, send me the details.
And I will build them within the limits of Rising Sun.
PM me here
and send the details and I will see if they can be translated to CFS3 Rising Sun.
Building for the CBI and the AVG.
More rejoicing!
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[westview]

Actually the P-40C was able to have a drop tank or carry a bomb.The AVG was originally used the P-40b which could not have a drop tank or carry bombs.The B model also just had a make shift gun sight made of steel.In April/May 1942 they got some P-40E models

To bad some of Japanese planes are not available for the AVG.

Ki-27 Nate-Available
K--43 Oscar-Available
Ki-44-Available
Ki-48 Lily now available
Ki-45 Toryu-Not available
Ki-21 Sally -not available would probably need to use the Betty
Ki-30 Ann-not available Could probably get away with the new Ki-32 Mary.

It's not perfect nor anywhere near historically correct, but I wonder if we can use the existing Fairey Battle to represent the Ki-30, and the Baltimore to represent the Ki-21, they have similar armament and reasonably similar performance. I'm not sure about the Ki-45 though, maybe the Po-631?

[TheBookie]

Some things about the P-40b. and the Hawk 81

The P-40B was the Army designation, and the Hawk-81A was the Curtiss-Wright factory designation.
Originally it had 2 x 50 cal guns shooting thru the prop and 1 x 30 cal gun in each wing.


Model H81-A2 described as the export equivalent.This si the model the AVG used that was originally
meant to go to the British.This model had 2 x 50 cal guns shooting thru the prop and 2 x 30 cal guns in each wing.


P-40C or Tomahawk IIB (Model H81-A3) is further distinguished by the addition of larger self
sealing fuel stores and a belly shackle to carry a drop tank or bomb, as well as additional
armor.


There is one difference to be noted- the company that provided the engines for the Hawk-81As
that equipped the Flying Tigers were for some reason overpowered, which gave Tiger fighters
a very welcome hundred extra horsepower,This was at the cost of significantly reduced engine hours.

It could also turn inside a Zero at speed (over 200 mph)

Records of the Zero found in China.

On November 22 a composite fighter squadron attached to the 22nd Air Flotilla HQ was created to
support the Singapore operation. Fourteen A6M2s (model 21) of the Tainan Air Group and another 13
A6M2 (21) of the 3rd Air Group departed Tainan and Takao airfields for Saigon via Hainan Island on
November 26 and 27. They arrived at Soc Trang, about 150 miles south of Saigon on December 1, 1941. '
En route to their destination, however, two Zero fighters had to make emergency landings on Luichow
Peninsula because of foul weather, and two pilots were missing in action.



The Chinese took the plane apart to move it and put it back together.It had no tiers because the villagers used them for the soles of their sandals and shoes.


HouseHobbit you do what you want to do but if you making historical missions as you say it's your job to research it,not mine. I already gave you a list of planes used and what you could for the ones not available.

Besides I have some AVG missions which I'm updating with the Ki-48 where it's needed. I can't upload them because I didn't write them,just tested them.

[MajorMagee]

I originally used the B-26 to stand in for the Ki-21 Sally and the A-20 for the Ki-48 Lilly.

A few other stand in Japanese aircraft I put together are here.
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?catid=85

[HouseHobbit]

Thanks Major, I have used some of these in past missions.
Now with PTO, and Rising Sun we have a decent stock to work with I am grateful to the PTO and Rising Sun team for this.
And several Masters are developing Japanese ships for us, which to me is Just too Wonderful.
More rejoicing..
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[HouseHobbit]

""HouseHobbit you do what you want to do but if you making historical missions as you say it's your job to research it,not mine. I already gave you a list of planes used and what you could for the ones not available.""


Just making a offer , I do this for folks if there is anything in particular they might want in a mission.
They can sent me the info and I will make missions for them.
Several have in the past made such requests, which I always answer.
Off to wreck more birds.
More rejoicing.
:applause: :applause:

[Ivan]

Hello All,

Here are links to information supporting my argument that the aircraft used by the AVG were actually in the P-40C production range. A export production and not lend-lease aircraft, they would not have had a USAAF serial number so it was actually the Curtiss Construction numbers I was describing.

Curtiss P-40B production. Note the British Serial Number Ranges
http://www.p40warhawk.com/Variants/P-40B.htm

Curtiss P-40C production. Note again the British Serial Number Ranges
http://www.p40warhawk.com/Variants/P-40C.htm

Curtiss Tomahawk production. Note the Curtiss Construction Numbers which put the AVG aircraft well within the P-40C range even though they were equipped rather more to a P-40B standard.
http://www.p40warhawk.com/Variants/Tomahawk.htm

Turns out I recalled incorrectly regarding Hawk 81A-4. Curtiss lists them as Hawk 81A-3 (P-40C equivalent).

- Ivan.

[sdsbolt]

On a barely related note, I am reworking a CFS1 Curtiss-Wright CW-21B

neat aircraft! seems even more lightly built than your Japanese opponents.

[MajorMagee]

Hello HouseHobbit,

On a barely related note, I am reworking a CFS1 Curtiss-Wright CW-21B. There were a couple of those flown by the AVG as well.

- Ivan.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?56057-Curtis-CW-21b-Dutch-by-Dancat

[HouseHobbit]

Thanks Major, I had forgotten about uploading this one, OOPPS!
Jon / Dancat, allowed this to be touched up and uploaded some time ago.
I built some missions for it too back then.
More rejoicing!!
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[HouseHobbit]

At this time I am using the Stock Rising Sun aircraft in the AVG/CBI missions.

Master Corrado has given me permission to incorporate his new Japanese birds into this package.
Once the tests are over and Master Corrado's work is uploaded by him.
I will then release this package, with his new birds as a part of the missions also.

WOW!! this package is going to be somewhat more in-depth then I first planned.
With all the facilities and New Japanese aircraft, I am pleased to say the Historical missions will cover a larger chain of events then when I first built this package.
Up to my furry feets, with all of this and very Grateful for all the support in the effort.,

I Plan to dedicate all of this package to Our Passed Brother in arms Talon. R.I.P.
Back to wrecking things.
Oh Yea!!
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[TheBookie]

At this time I am using the Stock Rising Sun aircraft in the AVG/CBI missions.
I Plan to dedicate all of this package to Our Passed Brother in arms Talon. R.I.P.


To bad you don't fly CFS2, Talon did the AVG complete.It was 120 Historical missions split into 3 campaigns-AVG in Burma,AVG in China and the CATF which the AVG became in July 1942.

He also started missions for Rising Sun but never got to finish them. He put in ports at Rangoon,Canton and Hong Kong. He also added airbases in China and Burma that were attacked.

I got to test some of them.

[HouseHobbit]

I used to fly CFS then CFS2 and when CFS3 came out it Greatly surpassed all that came before. I loaded CFS2 again some time back and it didn't take long to realize the Scenery in CFS3 was far in advanced to the previous CFS installs.
But, CFS2 has a wonderful mission builder program, even a novice can build missions with it, that is the one fault to CFS3 I have.. Since MS added the CFS3 Mission Builder, after the release of CFS3 and it is crude and very difficult to use, requires a great deal of practice and skill to use .
I built thousands of missions in CFS and CFS2, which both were far better when it came to CFS3 for the mission builder..
CFS3 is a true challenge to use the mission Builder. it takes 10 times the effort in CFS3 to build a mission compared to CFS or CFS2 I am sorry to say.
And I have learned to place items to the inch, and place aircraft so we can do Catapult launches, and Full Height carrier launches.
Thinking outside the box on that stuff.
I respect those who still enjoy the older CFS installs, they were stepping stones to CFS3, which is a wonderful Combat Flight Sim, and each day the Masters improve this and advance it in wonderful ways.
And to all the Masters (developers, modelers etc. ) I am truly indebted. Without their work, I would not build the missions I am able to do with their wonderful works.
One of the reasons for My work is to give back to the CFS3 community, who have so richly Blessed me with their efforts.
I am grateful for the CFS family of combat flight sims, from the beginning with CFS to CFS3 they all have given me the chance to be involved with a Wonderful and amazing group of folks around the world.
And to SOH for the place a Hobbit can dance and be Crazy.
Some of these amazing folks are still with us as a part of our CFS family and some are gone. I am Blessed to be a small part of this family.
And even allowed a Hobbit to be a member of the ETO/PTO/Rising Sun team And several independent sites also have allowed a hobbit to have mission rooms on their sites..
And until they finally turn the lights out and lock the door I will be building missions for those who have so richly blessed me with their work and friendship.
I guess you can say this is a mission statement from a grateful and Blessed Hobbit..
This set of missions for Rising Sun will be dedicated to Talon, for his skill will be truly missed by many.
More rejoicing. :applause: :applause: :applause:
And I get to wreck aircraft too. Oh yea!

[mrjmaint]

He also started missions for Rising Sun but never got to finish them. He put in ports at Rangoon,Canton and Hong Kong. He also added airbases in China and Burma that were attacked.

I got to test some of them.

Bookie,

Do you still have the missions you tested? I remember seeing them in posts. In fact Talon asked me if he could use some of the facility files I made for my Rising Sun Rabaul missions.

I would really like to see and fly them.

[Ivan]

Hello HouseHobbit,

I also have been involved with the various versions of CFS since very near the beginning.
CFS was the first Combat simulator that I found that had enough detail in the game for good suspension of disbelief in my opinion. The problem for me was that many of the aircraft available when I started were either very poor in graphics or very poor in flight modelling. I thought I could do better and started first with flight modelling. After a while, I wanted to prove that a good model could be built with the most common tools and haven't stopped yet. Pity you do not fly CFS any more. I think you would enjoy some of the aeroplanes I have built.

Hopefully this is not too far off topic for this thread, but since we are discussing P-40s, I have what I believe to be a couple pretty good one in the CFS1 downloads area. My P-40E was extensively revised recently and will likely be the pattern for a few later versions (as soon as I finish fixing a 0.07 foot Thrust Line discrepancy.

The discussion thread is here:
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?80890-Warhawk

This is a small discussion about my CW-21B along with a couple screenshots here"
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?94808-CFS1-Curtiss-Wright-AT-9-quot-Jeep-quot-Work-In-Progress/page4

The thread also explains why the CW-21B is in the process of a major rework.

There are quire a few other Pacific Theater aircraft I have built or am currently building but of course they are all for the original Combat Flight Simulator.

- Ivan.

[TheBookie]

Bookie,

Do you still have the missions you tested? I remember seeing them in posts. In fact Talon asked me if he could use some of the facility files I made for my Rising Sun Rabaul missions.

I would really like to see and fly them.

The bad news is I lost my Rising Sun install with a computer crash,I didn't have enough space on my external HD for it. There is good news though.Talon's sister in law Hiede will be in NJ and both of us will be going to NY for the Memorial services for the 9/11 attack on the WTC.Hiede also lost her husband ( bother of Talon ) because of that attack in December 2002 She will be giving me DVD sets of all CFS3 work done by Talon.

HouseHobbit I know all about mission building for CFS3.I did BoB missions years ago for it but were lost in the SOH crashes along with a lot of other peoples work. A lot things were lost from netwings also even though some of it was uploaded here. I've been around flight sims along time.

I was doing missions for other flight sims before the original cfs came out.

I've also flown the whole CFS series and worked with them,flew online with some of the greats in CFS3. Also flew with a few of them in IL-2.

[HouseHobbit]

Back to the AVG..
With the Ki-48 Lily available for CFS3 Rising Sun Thanks to Master Corrado these can be made very historical.
Dec 20, 1941 first AVG intercept of Japanese bombers.

[TheBookie]

OK back to the AVG.

December 23,1941 Over Rangoon. Some old pics.

[HouseHobbit]

Why don't we just stick with CFS3 here guys, CFS2 and CFS Have their own forums.
More rejoicing..
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[TheBookie]

Why don't we just stick with CFS3 here guys, CFS2 and CFS Have their own forums.
More rejoicing..
:applause: :applause: :applause:

The pics I uploaded are from CFS3 PTO Rising Sun.

[TheBookie]

The RAF also helped defend Ragoon

[TheBookie]

Hurricanes also helped in the defense.

[Ivan]

Why don't we just stick with CFS3 here guys, CFS2 and CFS Have their own forums.
More rejoicing..
:applause: :applause: :applause:

Sorry, Guys/

My pictures are all from the original CFS. They were a response to what I saw as reminiscing.
I don't actually fly CFS3 much any more.

My comments thus far have been more about the real aircraft and are an attempt to present data that might be useful for builds regardless of the simulator involved.

- Ivan.

[Daiwilletti]

Sorry, Guys/

My pictures are all from the original CFS. They were a response to what I saw as reminiscing.
I don't actually fly CFS3 much any more.

My comments thus far have been more about the real aircraft and are an attempt to present data that might be useful for builds regardless of the simulator involved.

- Ivan.

And thanks very much for your posts, Ivan. I am building a Warhawk campaign package for CFS3, and am reading the info on p-40s with great interest.

David

[TheBookie]

The AVG escorts RAF Buffaloes to Raheng.The Buffaloes are to attack the airfield while the AVG flies top cover for them.

[HouseHobbit]

COOL!!
Like the screenshots.
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[sdsbolt]

There are quire a few other Pacific Theater aircraft I have built or am currently building but of course they are all for the original Combat Flight Simulator.

- Ivan.

Ha! you're even crazier than we are! :dizzy:

those planes are looking good though.

[HouseHobbit]

Still dancing in the CBI,
Fighting tooth and nail, and fur and feets.
Oh Yea!!

[Daiwilletti]

Those are some nassty holeses in your tail, Hobbit!

[Rami]

HouseHobbit,

I don't have any specific notes for the AVG...the CBI theatre was kind of Al's alone in CFS2.

But perhaps this will help...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22MIzNXDAIY

[HouseHobbit]

Thanks Master Rami, I have this on my computer.

And already used it as a base for some of the missions.

Have a great one.

:wavey: