Any question regarding Dutch ETO, W40 and TOW phase 1: ask them to me!!!!

[Willem Bever]

Hello

My name is Willem, nicknamed Willem Bever. I'm a member of the "Dutch" ETO team. I've taken over some of the jobs previously done by Foute Man, (haven't decided yet if this is permanent or not) like posting here as team spokesman.

What will the "Dutch" ETO team do. Actually the name appears to be incorrect, because the team is more or less a continuation of the former W40 team and for the moment filling in some gaps left behind by the original Microsoft designers and in ETO Expansion version 1.02.

The team's effort will be to try to make missions and gsl which are "historically accurate", although limited by the gameengine itself, available models and most of all available information etc etc

We're planning to make an own website; a domain has been claimed and within some weeks we'll start to build that site offering you some previews on the final product

The addon itself will be based on ETO Expansion version 1.02 but you will not need to make a seperate install for it. ETO Expansion version 1.2 has it's focus on SCW and Italy, areas that are out of the field of interest of our team members. It has been choosen to do things this way, because version 1.02 had the prewar and 1940 part based on the work of the W40 team. The team will also cover the early part of Mongoose's "The Other War" project, because of the overlap in the time, and there's Nausicaa's Battle of Britain project offcourse

We'll try to avoid any version conflict with ETO 1.2, so you will be able to install the addon in ETO 1.2 without much problems, but you will not need ETO 1.2 to install our addon

At the moment the few 3D people working on our project are working on some goodlooking aircraft, we're designing a Merchant Aircraft Carrier, railwaystations and a lot of typical Dutch buildings like windmills, lighthouses, watertowers, canalhouses, castles etc etc

However, some work on Dutch groundtextures and rivers need to be done. If someone knows how to do this job, please contact me....

If there are any questions, I'll find out

Willem

[Pat Pattle]

Hi Willem :welcome: welcome to the forums.

This all sounds excellent and positive! Lets hope any conflict issues (I'm sure there won't be any :)) will be resolved for the betterment of all.

Cheers!

Pat

[grizzly50]

:kilroy:Willem Bever, this is just a reminder, for clarification purposes only, that the "Dutch" ETO team is currently involved in their project with ETO Expansion Rev 1.0 and ETO Expansion Rev 1.02 Update. The upcoming ETO Expansion Rev 1.20 Update is still in development and testing at this time. Our global layers have changes greatly since 1.02.:d

[O-1Driver]

Willem,

Great to hear of your progress on a wonderful addition to CFS 3. CFS 3 is indeed alive and doing well.

As Pat said it would be great if the addition and ETO can be installed by a player without complications. The current ETO installs are there for anyone to use to build addons, the individual enhancements, components, effects etc. are also available for use without restriction. The only restriction to this would be the individual aircraft models built by others and AvHistory files. You will need the approval of the individual or individuals who built the aircraft, cockpits and or skins before creating new stand alones for your install. ETO aircraft cannot be copied or changed without permissions since they involve the original property of others. There is also a substantial amount of Reg's Hangar and Ground Crew vehicles, ships, ports etc. that may need permissions. You can check with Greg Law and or Mathias to that end.

With regard to this statement "We'll try to avoid any version conflict with ETO 1.2, so you will be able to install the addon in ETO 1.2 without much problems, but you will not need ETO 1.2 to install our addon".

You should be aware that the 1.2 update is very comprehensive and is a cummulative update. Once it is released we will no longer be offering the 1.02 update. This makes it more simple for players to install and keep up with changes. The 1.2 update involves many weapons, weather, textures, and effects updates, changes to ETO aircraft XDPs (not West 40) and substantial changes to the GSL. Some of the 1.2 ETO aircraft will not be compatible with the ETO 1.02 aircraft in online play or weapons.

I also need to add with regard to your statement "ETO Expansion version 1.2 has it's focus on SCW and Italy, areas that are out of the field of interest of our team members". This is not correct, 1.2 also includes additions of airfields in
England along with new missions and aircraft for the period 1942 thru 1945 in England, France and Germany. It also includes some of the TOW aircraft. In addition scenery, aircraft and missions have been added for Operation Dragoon, the invasion of Southern France. We have also added aircraft Carriers, Battleships, aircraft and missions for Royal Navy action from years 1940 thru 1945.

The 1.2 update will be out in March and the 1.02 version will no longer be available. Good Luck Let us know how we can help you with your project.

Best Regards

O-1 Driver

[Led Zeppelin]

No problem Steve, nothing from ETO stuff will be modifyed (aircrafts, ships or whatever), nobody ever intended to do so. Only new stuff will be added and missions will of course use many of ETO stuff.

About compatibility with 1.02 and 1.20, I think that major problem may come with missions. If a mission is build to work with v1.02, it will work with V1.20 except if some needed items have been removed, changed or renamed in V1.20 (aircraft, facility, vehicule, country name in the NEK or whatever).

About the gsl lib, I don't know how does it work really so can't say more about this specific item.

[Foute Man]

O-1 Driver

Regarding Led Zeppelin's post, maybe it's a wise thing to do if you inform us what you've deleted/renamed etc.

[Foute Man]

sorry willem, kon het niet laten, aard van het beestje

(sorry willem, could not resist, nature of the beast)

[O-1Driver]

No problem Steve, nothing from ETO stuff will be modifyed (aircrafts, ships or whatever), nobody ever intended to do so. Only new stuff will be added and missions will of course use many of ETO stuff.
About compatibility with 1.02 and 1.20, I think that major problem may come with missions. If a mission is build to work with v1.02, it will work with V1.20 except if some needed items have been removed, changed or renamed in V1.20 (aircraft, facility, vehicule, country name in the NEK or whatever).
About the gsl lib, I don't know how does it work really so can't say more about this specific item.

Thanks Loic,

Steve

[ronnybengt]

welocome m8

R:welcome::welcome:

[Willem Bever]

Willem,

Great to hear of your progress on a wonderful addition to CFS 3. CFS 3 is indeed alive and doing well.....The 1.2 update will be out in March and the 1.02 version will no longer be available. Good Luck Let us know how we can help you with your project.

Best Regards

O-1 Driver

You got a PM!!!!!!

[Willem Bever]

sorry willem, kon het niet laten, aard van het beestje

(sorry willem, could not resist, nature of the beast)


Je moet je grote mond eens een keer houden, paardelul!!!!:) :)

(you should keep your big mouth shut, beep)

[rbp71854]

Result :
Number of files: 7179
Total uncompressed size: 1893312549 bytes
Total compressed size: 775843652 bytes
Install program size: 777226698 bytes



O-1 Driver

Regarding Led Zeppelin's post, maybe it's a wise thing to do if you inform us what you've deleted/renamed etc.

[Willem Bever]

Result :
Number of files: 7179
Total uncompressed size: 1893312549 bytes
Total compressed size: 775843652 bytes
Install program size: 777226698 bytes

Thanks for your reply, impressive numbers, but I don't think this is the info the team needs....Did you remove/rename anything from the W40 team? If yes what did you remove/rename?

Can't trace my message(s) to O-1 Driver, but could you adress any kind of communication to the W40 team to me please, after all, this thread is to introduce myself as team's spokesman. It seems a message has been sent to Led Zeppelin, would like to read it myself

Willem

[O-1Driver]

Willem,

As we have discussed with James about TOW, your Dutch ADD On will work much better and give you more fexibility and growth potential if built as a separate install and game. That way you can add as many aircraft and ships as you need and build your own campaign outside the ETO game. Using this approach will allow you total freedom and flexibility to do your own updates and additions without worrying about compatibility with ETO.

If you make the decision to do a hybrid by building the Dutch ADD On using the 1.02 update here is what will happen.

1. The ETO aircraft XDPs have been updated and will no longer match the aircraft in the Dutch Add On
2. New effects and textures.
3. Your Global Layer will no longer match ETO, as we have added airfields and facilities to England, France and Italy
4. Your guns and weapons pack will not match ours any more.
5. Your pylons folder will mis match
6. Your weather will not include the 1.2 weather
7. We have added new ships, carriers, train cars and vehicles.
8. new buildings
9. Missions
There is more but I think you can see that once someone installs the Dutch ADD On they will no longer be compatible with ETO 1.2 or future ETO Updates.
10. There are over three dozen new aircraft with additional pylons and weapons.

We do not modify or change any West 40 components at all when we do an update. We have to protect the campaign and integrity of their work.

In summary I think the best appproach is for you to build the Dutch Add On as a separate install and name. That way no one will be confused and install it and think they can fly on line in MP and match up with ETO, or install 1.2 and not have every problem imaginable. It is our recommendation that the 1.2 update not be installed on top of the Dutch Add On and that the Dutch Add On not be installed after the player installs ETO 1.2.

Best Regards

Steve
O-1 Driver

[Willem Bever]

Again thanks for the reply, will deliver your message, but again you should know that:

- our effort is not a Dutch effort, but a W40 effort. What you actually say is the complete W40 team should go seperate and the W40 contribution should be cut out ETO as it is now.
- the option for a seperate install was rejected by a majority of the team, one of the reasons was we should not make it more complicate for the gamer by making yet another install
- what we describe as version 1.02 is just the state of 1.02 gsl (the facilities created by the W40 team in era 1 and or era 2). This gsl files were to be updated and improved, and the hope is you have not deleted, removed or renamed anything.

If there are any problems regarding FM in person, I more or less learned how to deal with him. I also know he has been willing to solve any problems with you or your team, you only need to accept the invitation.

Willem

[O-1Driver]

Willem,

Once again please note : We never make changes to any West 40 Components.
This discussion should end and be taken off line.

O-1

[mongoose]

my 2 cents worth in what seems to be a discussion in which there are some misunderstandings about what each party is doing and what they want to do.

ETO. AFIK there is no plan to cut out W40 from ETO. After all much of the stuff from 1939-1940 would be from the w40 era. I leave it to Sol_ETO to say if there have been major gsl changes for that era and others. Now some a/c may or may not be in or uot of 1.2. If they are out and such things effect already existing missions, then I would have thought this will be possible to deal with once 1.2 is out.
I don't see anyone having a problem with subsequent 'mini ' addons to 1.2 after it is out, just like there have always been with CFS3; missions,a/c, buildings, facilities, etc. I am sure Sol-ETO would even help in testing and even making the install upload.

W40 and 'Europe In CFS 3 ETO Expansion' as it is called. I don't think it would be good to have a totally separate install since I would think it it integral to ETO's North and Western material. My understanding of the aims here would be to enhance and expand ETO in these particular areas
Pre-occupation (W40)
German occupation activity; day and night. (BoB and after)
Exiled occupation countries activities from Britain
Liberation period
If we understand that the ETO Expansion pack is meant to be an ugraded and improived CFS3 standard install, then it would make sense that this material was somehow intergrated into it.

There has to be a way for this to be done, but meanwhile there is little comuncation between the 2 groups and I think a Don Quixote effect could develop. Let's get on with the modeling and work out the problems when they actually arise. meanwhile let's keep up communication, even if it is 'back door' . I don't think a public forum is a good place for this!

Finally; why TOW a separate install? One good and possibly main reason is that no one wants lit searchlights around during the daytime; and there will be alot!! Also the eras and gsl layouts may not match those in daytime ETO. While many facilities etc., would be fine in the daytime and might be good for the TAF groups to attack, there will be a whole load of a/c which won't be much use in the daytime. I imagine that ETO Epansion might want to put some stuff back into the daytime install and they already have BC and NJ a/c.

I don't see those being issues with W40 + .


End of :a1451:

[O-1Driver]

Willem my Friend,

We are talking past each other.

Consider this;

Wait untll the 1.2 update is released, there will be no changes to the West 40 stuff from 1.02. Prepare your add on as a scenery add on similar to the old 46th scenery add on. If you build your add on based on 1.2 you will eliminate most of your problems.

However, your GSL entries should be in addition to the 1.2 GSL main. As long as you do it in this fashion your add on and ETO will be compatible.

O-1

[Willem Bever]

Willem,

Once again please note : We never make changes to any West 40 Components.
This discussion should end and be taken off line.

O-1

I obviously said something you don't like, I'm sorry for that, but this thread is about me introducing myself as spokesman of the Dutch/W40/TOW phase 1 effort and I'd like this thread to be opened.

But again, the "Dutch effort, or Europe in ETO Expansion (should make up a better name)" is basicly W40 version 2, so a seperate Dutch install = a seperate W40 install. Again, the option to go seperate has been discussed and rejected by the majority of the teammembers.
Regarding FM, I already told you how I learned to deal with him and I made it loud and clear to him that our effort will only succeed if he backs off....and I'll make sure he does.
We'll discuss this weekend offer done by your team internally, and the outcome of that discussion will decide the team's point of view, even when it means the majority overrules FM's personal opinion. Our door is still open, how about yours.......??????? And believe me, you will not regret making "the impossible compromis"...

And now back to business: What would the average SOH visitor like to see realized in my team's effort?????

[Willem Bever]

Willem my Friend,

We are talking past each other.

Consider this;

Wait untll the 1.2 update is released, there will be no changes to the West 40 stuff from 1.02. Prepare your add on as a scenery add on similar to the old 46th scenery add on. If you build your add on based on 1.2 you will eliminate most of your problems.

However, your GSL entries should be in addition to the 1.2 GSL main. As long as you do it in this fashion your add on and ETO will be compatible.

O-1

We're indeed talking past each other, just read your post after posting mine :):) But I'd like to repeat, our doors are open....

[mongoose]

Good. Everyone agrees.:amen:

[O-1Driver]

Quote
We're indeed talking past each other, just read your post after posting mine :):) But I'd like to repeat, our doors are open....
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/soh/buttons/report.gif (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/report.php?p=100899)


Willem,

The work of your team is independent and not involved with what we are doing in 1.2 and now with the MAW update. We do not wish to take on more work and get involved with your project at this time. All you have to do is insure that what you are doing will merge well with ETO 1.2 and be compatible. Then the players can install it with no problems. Loic and Clive are both extremely knowledgeable about what steps you will need to take to insure compatibility. Beyond that have one of them contact me for further clarification on our internal forum.

Best Regards

O-1

[danimalhanke]

Hello
please contact me....

If there are any questions, I'll find out

Willem

I know I've taken this out of context LOL but where are the tracers? Some acft have them and some don't. The ones which do have them are the wrong color. WWII tracers were red! not blue, not yellow, not purple, not green, but RED and every 3rd round was a tracer as anyone shooting was expected to 'walk' their bullets on to their targets! Great work and all Foutman, but your tracer colors are wrong! Look at any allied gun cam footage they are red. German footage is black and white, but according to my dad who flew in a b-17 the german tracers were red too!
Now that I'm done whinnning like a baby thanks to everyone involved with this mod! Man I wish I had some skills to create something as nice as the bf-109! Wow! the VCP is excellent!

thank you,
thank you,
thank you,
thank you,
thank you,

[Willem Bever]

I know I've taken this out of context LOL but where are the tracers? Some acft have them and some don't. The ones which do have them are the wrong color. WWII tracers were red! not blue, not yellow, not purple, not green, but RED and every 3rd round was a tracer as anyone shooting was expected to 'walk' their bullets on to their targets! Great work and all Foutman, but your tracer colors are wrong! Look at any allied gun cam footage they are red. German footage is black and white, but according to my dad who flew in a b-17 the german tracers were red too!
Now that I'm done whinnning like a baby thanks to everyone involved with this mod! Man I wish I had some skills to create something as nice as the bf-109! Wow! the VCP is excellent!

thank you,
thank you,
thank you,
thank you,
thank you,

They're not done by any of us

[danimalhanke]

They're not done by any of us

Yeah, o1driver said the samething. It's really odd, I can move the acft to the clean cfs3 install folder and all the tracers show up. But in the eto folder, which was created from the clean folder they are missing! go figure? And b4 u ask yes I've put all the effect stuff from the clean folder into the eto folder and they still come up awol! I'm not one to re-install everything but I just might in this case. Before I started I just wanted to make sure they weren't missing by design! LOL!

ty