Some WIP preview...

[kelticheart]

Hi everybody!

This 2015 seems to be dedicated to Regia Aeronautica airplanes for me. The need for new Italian WWII gauges and improved old ones generated a whole new project.

Using as a base Alphasim's old Veltro 2d panel I am developing 2d panels for all Italian close-cockpit fighters, namely M.C. 202 and 205, Fiat G-55, Reggiane Re2001, 2002 and 2005. I am also working on Fiat G-50 and M.C. 200 open cockpit ones, using Morton's beautiful wide 2d reduced to 4:3 for all still using pc monitors with this format. All Italian WWII close-cockpit fighters shared the same type of cockpit canopy, inspired by the Bf109, therefore the same bitmap can be used for all of them.

From Morton's impeccable work I picked up the San Giorgio gunsight and then moved around the gauge layouts according to the historical pictures, taken from these aircraft pilot's manuals.

For the magnetic compass, which was mounted on a stand in front of the panel, I had the idea to use a popup window, controlled by the Concorde set compass icon, which gives the visual effect of the instrument laying in front of the panel.
There are also new, improved historical-looking gauges and a completely new attitude gauge used when this gauge become standard equipment (you can see it below, mounted in the M.C. 202 panel). Up to the M.C. 200, no attitude gauge was included.

Attached below are samples of what I am doing, starting from the M.C.202 with the popup compass switched on, the M.C.205 and G-55, both with the compass off. I have completed the Re2001-2002 and working on the 2005.

This is by no means an attempt to provide 2d panels precise down to the last screw of their WWII real-life counterparts. I am no painter, so I had to use somebody else's paintworks, trying to improve them.
Good 2d panels for Italian fighters are hard to come in CFS2, this Alphasim's creation offers a feature that I like a lot: a good forward visibility. I hate stock MS panels and their likes, covering 2/3 of the screen!

For the sake of realism factor, I don't like landing or taking off in HUD view either. Thus, this ongoing effort to strike the best compromise between history, realism and a flight sim limitations.

The new pack will include updates of my previous uploads.

Cheers!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[bub]

Kelti,
Thank you for your excellent and hard work. The panels "look marvelous". I can see some Italian aircraft in the stable very soon.
Cheers,
Bub

[stockplane]

Kelti! Bravo Bravo.

Congrats very much a part the japanese panel i start make the SM79 and BR20 panels so with yours the italian

most important planes is almost complete.

Really a good works.


Bestregards.

[gaucho_59]

Hi there, :applause:

Very nice additions... I redid the G55 in base of the line drawing you provided here... Changed the bracing and tableau de vol, etc. to
more closely match the drawing you enclosed. If you are interested... it is available...

To wit: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3868/18900031052_5f79d3f51f_o.jpg

:ernaehrung004:
G.

[kelticheart]

Hi there,

Very nice additions... I redid the G55 in base of the line drawing you provided here... Changed the bracing and tableau de vol, etc. to
more closely match the drawing you enclosed. If you are interested... it is available...

Gaucho,

your work is indeed beautiful. :applause:

I did not use only the drawing for the G-55. The two attached b/w WWII shots, I found on Google pictures, show my gauge layout a little better. Evidently, the pilot's manual drawing belongs to the project stage of the G-55. During production runs instruments were arranged slightly different.
The left and right side pictures show how the G-55 cockpit was organised. It looked almost like the French Dewoitine, with the two side sections angled and two big oil and coolant temp gauges laying one on top of the other one, placed on the right section.

The entire cockpit switched to the left, giving the illusion of a gunsight offset to the right, is a nice touch. Alphasim designers choose to draw it centred, while all Italian closed-cockpit 2d panels should be like this. Paul Rebuffat's Bf109 series 2d panels, have the same nice touch, Bruno Duffort and Philippe Méhard drew them.
I always wondered how Italian and Luftwaffe fighter pilots' aim could be precise, having to lean to their right side to fire at the opponents....

Why don't you upload your G-55 panel?

UPDATE:

Using Morton's wide panel for his last December Macchi C.200 skin pack upload, I developed a 1024x768 4:3 2d panel for both the M.C. 200 and the Fiat G-50. Morton's instrument layout belongs to the G-50 rather than the M.C.200, but I moved around the gauge frames and now it looks closely to the real one, while in the G-50 I only had to remove the lateral open cockpit frame bars to get a good Freccia 2d panel.

Morton's 2d texture follows my line of preference as well, in terms of taking the minimum possible room away from the pilot's forward view. We should all remember WWII pilot seats were height-adjustable and pilots used to raise/lower theirs according to individual preferences.

I have been working around this 'raised seat' concept since my first 2d panel tweak attempts. A tall reflector sight texture, coupled with a low instrument panel behind, allows dramatic improvements in forward view during landings, where the stock 2d panel MS approach obscure runway view entirely, unless adopting dive bomber diving angles during finals, which often result into :pop4: landings, particularly on carrier decks.....

Tomorrow I'll post pictures of my latest efforts and I'll send an e-mail to Morton asking him permission to re-upload his modified M.C.200/Fiat G-50 texture.

Cheers!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[gaucho_59]

One reason why I seldom upload is because there is always something to add on or
sometimes, like in this case, a need for a totally new approach....
With these two pictures I can do a much better attempt... more 3D like perspective... etc.

Thanks for the info...:wavey::applause:

G.

[stockplane]

For Kelti and Gaucho, thanks a lot for your effert.

This is a real panel of Mc.202 that has been restoration with original color and insrtuments, it will be usefull to you.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24254&stc=1

Good job.

Best regards.

[kelticheart]

For Kelti and Gaucho, thanks a lot for your effert.

This is a real panel of Mc.202 that has been restoration with original color and insrtuments, it will be usefull to you.

Good job.

Best regards.

Stockplane....:jawdrop:

where on earth did you find this picture? It is splendid but now... :dejection: I see that I was close but no cigar. Especially with the attitude gauge, since the one I reworked does not work the way it's pictured here. It's the first time I see one so well detailed!
Here the horizon line is fixed and the plane shape reproduces the aircraft movements. Mine works the opposite way, fixed plane shape and mobile horizon.

The gauges in the upper part of my panel are all correct, the lower sides can only be simulated in CFS2 as I did, but I have to do the attitude once more and stop Manuele Villa/Peperez from uploading their conversion of F.Giuli's S.M.82 Marsupiale (Cangaroo)!!! Manuele is using this attitude gauge that I have to modify!

Gaucho, I hear what you say about uploading. In fact, now I have to do a new attitude gauge. Fortunately, I hadn't uploaded anything yet. Great care has to be taken before uploading incorrect stuff, sometimes some overlook slips by the strictest controls.

Attached below the 2d panels of, left to right:



Fiat G-50 without popup compass,
Fiat G-50 with popup compass,
Fiat G-50 panel WWII picture (as comparison),
Macchi C.200,
M.C. 200 WWII left panel picture (as comparison),
M.C. 200 WWII right panel picture (as comparison).


Both 2d 4:3 panels obtained by cutting a 1024x768 section of Morton's M.C. 200 wide panel. With different windshield frame shapes.

I will upload them as soon as I rework the attitude gauge and do VC entries for:



IS4G/Corrado La Posta (FS9)/William Dickens' Fiat G-50;
IS4G/Quai-D'Attomo (FS9)'s Macchi C.200,
IS4G/Corrado La Posta (FS9)'s Macchi C.202,
IS4G/Corrado La Posta (FS9)/MVGrd's Macchi C.205.


Then I'll move on to bombers. The last picture attached is my version for the S.M.79 Sparviero (bitmap by Kerry Livgren).

Have a nice weekend!:wavey:

Cheers!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[stockplane]

Dear Kelti, here two http andress were you can find photos and informations.

Your cockpit are well done. I wait to test them!

Only a thing the reflector gunsight is a little big respect the real, can you reduce it?

The adresses:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234948275-spitfire-mk-iii-instrument-panel-colour/
http://axis.classicwings.com/Italy/macchi.htm

Sorry for my very bad english.

Best regards.

[stockplane]

Also the SM.79 sound beautifull!

Here two images of it, i don't remember were i find them but sure over internet.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24298&stc=1http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24299&stc=1

Best regards.

[kelticheart]

I am sorry to report that, after going berserk over the weekend to find an attitude gauge which would work like the O.M.I.-Cerini pictured in the M.C. 202 restored panel, posted above by Stockplane, I had to give up. :sorrow:

Unless I missed some obscure addon that has it, all of the attitude gauges I have in my archives, covering over 13 years of addon downloads, work in the opposite way as this one.

The standard attitude gauge, of any nationality, has a fixed aircraft-shape up front with a mobile horizon line behind, keeping the horizon orientation following our plane movements in the air.
The O.M.I.-Cerini, a very common attitude gauge in Regia Aeronautica fleet, works exactly in the opposite way. It has a fixed horizon line up front in the middle, with a mobile aircraft shape behind.

When I took any of the attitude gauges I have in my collection and changed the bitmaps to make it look like the Italian counterpart, I obtained an attitude which places the plane over the horizon when I dive and under the horizon when I climb.
Exactly the opposite of what it should be.....:banghead:

I anyone here has an attitude gauge that works like the O.M.I.-Cerini, that I can take and camouflage to get the Italian counterpart, please post it here.

If not, I'll just upload it 'as is', blaming the incorrect historical behaviour on yet another CFS2 limitation. The one I did works correctly as an attitude gauge, looks like the O.M.I.-Cerini but does not work like it.

Cheers!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[stockplane]

Kelti! I think it is not a great problem, is possible that who had make the restoration had used a mod. instruments or more modern. Aniway your projects are really good and more usefull!

If i find a similar gauge i sent it to you.

I am preparing cockpit for Ba.88 and Ba.65 but for Ba.88 i have only two photos really bad not clear, there is the possibility post some detail for the Ba.88 cockpit ( also only the disposition and the names of the instrumrents ).

The bmp is almost complete but for the instruments i have serious dubs, for the moment.

Thanks for all.

Cheers.

[mvg3d]

......I am preparing cockpit for Ba.88 and Ba.65 but for Ba.88 i have only two photos really bad not clear, there is the possibility post some detail for the Ba.88 cockpit ( also only the disposition and the names of the instrumrents ).....
Cheers.

Hi Stockplane,
Directly from "Breda 88 1939 MM3962-4042 4594-4617 4246-4264 5286-5509 - Manuale Istruzioni (CA508)" :

24439 24440

24441 24442

[mvg3d]

And these :

Always from "Breda 88 1939 MM3962-4042 4594-4617 4246-4264 5286-5509 - Manuale Istruzioni (CA508)" :

24443 24444

From "Breda 88 1939 MM3962-4042-4246 4264-4594-4617-5486-5509 - Catalogo Nomenclatore (CA500)"

24446

I have also the Ba.65 K14 & A.80 manuals, but all the images are almost unusable....

This pic is from "Breda 65 1939 (Fiat A80RC41) MM75163-75281 - Catalogo Nomenclatore (CA426)"

24445

Otherwise You can download my Ba.65 A.80 for FS9 and use a VC view as base....

[stockplane]

Thanks a lot, really usefull!

In the next day i probably upload these panels, if you and your group want you can for them make a more appropiate background bmp.

I am not a great painter.

Thanks again.


Cheers

[stockplane]

Dear mvg3d , i have a problem. THe images are too little i have download them but is impossible read

the datas.

Please re post if possible.

Best regards.

[mvg3d]

Dear mvg3d , i have a problem. THe images are too little i have download them but is impossible read

the datas.

Please re post if possible.

Best regards.

Hi Stockplane,
Have You clicked on the thumbnails ? If not do it and, when You'll see a bigger pic, right click and save the pic as You want, ALL the pics are perfectly readable....
A question : are You Italian ?

:wavey::wavey::wavey::wavey:

[stockplane]

Oh yes i have directly download the images without open them before. Thanks.

Yes i am italian of Turin.

Cheers

[mvg3d]

Oh yes i have directly download the images without open them before. Thanks.

Yes i am italian of Turin.

Cheers

Ciao,
Vedo che sei "nuovo", perche' non Ti presenti ?

[gaucho_59]

Oh yes i have directly download the images without open them before. Thanks.

Yes i am italian of Turin.

Cheers

Welcome... Ci sono stato parecchie volte a Torino quando viaggiavo spesso in Germania... sono figlio adottivo del Veneto...
ma adesso sono diventato un Desert Rat in California a Palm Springs... ho ancora una casa a Vicenza...
Ecco un WIP del panello su di cui sto lavorando...

Still a WIP... will be available as usual...


https://farm1.staticflickr.com/335/18909491548_2f4902f0a7_o.jpg

:wavey::ernaehrung004:
G.

[kelticheart]

Ciao,
Vedo che sei "nuovo", perche' non Ti presenti ?

Sì Stockplane, piacere di fare la tua conoscenza.

Sarebbe anche ora di avere un coordinamento tra i piloti virtuali Italiani che frequentano "l'osteria" di SOH!

Salute!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[stockplane]

Mica male come residenza, beato te!

Il cockpit si presenta bene, complimenti. Io invece faccio una fatica boia con le bmp.

Se vuoi e hai voglia puoi tranquillamente mattere le mani ai miei, nessun problema, anzi!

Sei mai stato a Vigna di Valle, è vicino a Roma, gente ospitale e un gran museo aereonautica tutti italiani, tutti

restaurati, ultimo arrivo P-51D A.M.I., ed è gratis! (valli a capire gli italiani).

A presto.

[stockplane]

Kelti, potrebbe essere un'idea, pensiamoci.

Ho fatto l'upload del Ba.88 come bmp non un gran che, per il resto quasi reale, a parte gli strumenti mancanti.

Mi sa che devo studiare come si fnno le gauges!:redfire:

A quando qualche Tou cockpits?

[Blood_Hawk23]

looks like I need to brush up on Italian.

Hey Kelti,

Can you repaint the parts so they will work the way you want them too? Just a thought. I haven't tried so I don't know.

[stockplane]

FOR mvg3d, presentarmi nel senso della pagina di presentazione, promesso in questi giorni lo faccio.

Comunque sono Stefano.


Salutoni.

[Captain Kurt]

Hi Kelti

Try this one, my treat. Not perfect but pretty close.

[kelticheart]

looks like I need to brush up on Italian.

Hey Kelti,

Can you repaint the parts so they will work the way you want them too? Just a thought. I haven't tried so I don't know.

Hi John,

forgive us for writing few lines in Italian, it's always a pleasure discovering someone "in the basement" who lives a few miles away. We only exchanged greetings and thought about resolving this Italian attitude problem.......:biggrin-new: (pun very much intended, of course!)


BUT IT LOOKS LIKE CAPTAIN KURT CAME TO THE RESCUE!!!!! :love-struck:


Captain Kurt, thank you so much!
If this O.M.I.-Cerini Artificial Horizon works as beautifully as it looks, you're officially :medals: and promoted to the rank of Italian Gauge Development Dept. Master of Art!
I can't wait to go home and try it out!

Can Manuele Villa, Peperez, Stockplane, me and others working to improve available Regia Aeronautica birds, upload your O.M.I.-Cerini in their packs, giving your work proper credits, of course?

Cheers!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[mvg3d]

Hi Stefano,
I think that You can easily change the bitmap with the plane shape with the OMI reticle.....

:wavey::wavey::wavey::wavey:

P.S. THANK YOU Captain Kurt !!!!

[stockplane]

mvg3d, OMI artificial horizont or OMI reticle?

Another information, the mvg group is a great modder group is possible for you make a good Br.20m for CFS2?

Cheers

[mvg3d]

mvg3d, OMI artificial horizont or OMI reticle?

Another information, the mvg group is a great modder group is possible for you make a good Br.20m for CFS2?

Cheers

Hi Stefano,
The mobile "plane" in the OMI Artificial Horizon must be changed in two parallel lines (I'll post a pic from the original manual in the afternoon).

The "mvg group" isn't a "closed" or "fixed" team, I'm MVG3D, many times I made some planes from "scratch" and, some times, I modified/completed models from other sources (M.Shupe, Pietro Zazzetta, Luca Festari, ecc.). Many times I ask collaboration from the better developers (FSAviator, Stefano Meneghini) for FDs and gauges..... I have the BR.20 in my programs (I bought also the Special Hobby 1/48 model for reference), but actually I'm working on the SM.79C (winner of 1937 Istres-Damasco-Paris race).

:wavey::wavey::wavey::wavey:

[mvg3d]

This is the real O.M.I.-Cerini Artificial Horizon :

General View 24488

Display 24489

Dimensions 24490

:wavey::wavey::wavey:

[mvg3d]

This is the real Salmoiraghi - Sperry Artificial Horizon :

24491 24492 24493

:wavey::wavey::wavey::wavey:

[stockplane]

Now all clear, understand.

In italian " come il cacio sui maccheroni ", i am starting to modify some bmp gauges both for italian and japanese cockpits, but i have a problem.

For the gauges without trasparency all ok , with trasparency part i have try with the black color, with the transparent backgrouns, from 16,7 million color 24 bit to 256 colors 8 bit, but nothing the part that will be invisible or is white or is black.

Any help please?

Probably is very simple but i can't find the solution.


Best regards.

[mvg3d]

Now all clear, understand.
In italian " come il cacio sui maccheroni ", i am starting to modify some bmp gauges both for italian and japanese cockpits, but i have a problem.
For the gauges without trasparency all ok , with trasparency part i have try with the black color, with the transparent backgrouns, from 16,7 million color 24 bit to 256 colors 8 bit, but nothing the part that will be invisible or is white or is black.
Any help please? Probably is very simple but i can't find the solution.
Best regards.

I don't know exactly how the C++ (gau) gauges work, if they use 256 colors 8 bit or different types of bmps.
In XML gauges are used 256/8 bmps, in these gauges the "transparent" color is the BLACK.

Stefano, look at the colors table in Your paint program, for transparency the cursors for black MUST be at 0,0,0 (Red/Green/Blue) otherwise the transparency DOESN'T work, for example : if Your color is 0,0,1 You'll see a very dark grey, it seems black, but ISN'T (as a gauge's "black" quadrant) !!!

:wavey::wavey::wavey::wavey:

[stockplane]

The others in CFS2 256/8 for the trasparency i always use black 0,0,0 - tomorrow i make again.

Cheers.

[Captain Kurt]

You guys are killing me here :untroubled:. What is the gauge in the panel photo then?

Kelti, here's the O.M.I. Cerini attitude gauge per mgv3d's images.

[stockplane]

Congrats Captain Kurt, great prompt reply!

I wish modify some bmp gauges, as write before my peoblem is make a transparent section but i have try in the same way of the panel bmp but it remain black and visible.

If is possible, please, explain me the metod?

Thanks in advanced.

Best regards.

[Captain Kurt]

Stockplane, are you modifying the bitmaps of existing gauges, or creating new gauges?

I can't program C++ to make new gauges, I just repaint the bitmaps to modify existing ones. Many gauges operate the same way, but the faces a different for different countries. So repainting the face often is a useful way to create specific nationality gauges. I use a utility called GAU to BMP by Chuck Dome. It allows you to extract a bitmap, modify or replace it and load it back into the gauge's .gau file. Each gauge is built differently so you have to make sure you keep the bitmaps in the right sequence, the same size, etc.

The bitmap must be 256 colors 8-bit format. I increase the number of colors to paint the bitmap and then reduce it back to 256 colors 8-bit. The color black - value 0,0,0 - is used for transparencies. Make sure your transparent areas are still value 0,0,0 after you reduce the colors to 256. I have had it shift to a different value before.

You can get the tool at Simviation if you don't already have it.

http://simviation.com/1/download?file=gaubmp2.zip&fileId=31331

[gaucho_59]

Still a WIP... all comments or suggestions entertained... gun sight is separate bmp...
for pop up use... as it obscures the atti gauge...

it will be available as usual...


https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3748/18974177779_edd08ec7f7_o.jpg


:wavey::ernaehrung004:
G.

[gaucho_59]

I like you Kurt, do no program gauges at all... but I can do a pretty decent job "polishing up" existing gauges...

Thanks Manuele... you are worth your weight in gold with resources...

The gauge presented here is made up of several layers... and can be used on an appropriately programmed gauge...

To wit:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/524/19162788635_f55f08eb1e_o.jpg

Available as usual...

:wavey::ernaehrung004:
G.

[gaucho_59]

Congrats Captain Kurt, great prompt reply!

I wish modify some bmp gauges, as write before my peoblem is make a transparent section but i have try in the same way of the panel bmp but it remain black and visible.

If is possible, please, explain me the metod?

Thanks in advanced.

Best regards.

You need to be a bit deft with a program like PSP or Photoshop... and work in layers...
You play with relative transparency until you get what you want... unfortunately... gauge bmp files are all in 256 colors..
so one can create the illusion of transparency on the face of the gauge... BUT... the moving parts will be on top of it...
still, I think that it renders a better product than just opaque gauge faces...
You work on high def color (8 bit) and then put the final product on 256... as CPT Kurt mentioned... the pure black background gets
changed in the process... but there is a way around it... you take the final high-def product and superimpose it on a pure black
background in 256... it works for me...

:wavey::ernaehrung004:
G.

[Blood_Hawk23]

Hi John,

forgive us for writing few lines in Italian, it's always a pleasure discovering someone "in the basement" who lives a few miles away. We only exchanged greetings and thought about resolving this Italian attitude problem.......:biggrin-new: (pun very much intended, of course!)



No worries. I enjoy it actually. I grew up listening to my Grandparents speaking French(Canadian). So don't mind me. If I want to know what you'll are saying, I'll just google it.

I'm glad you guys were able to change the guages.

CK, they look great.

[gaucho_59]

I don't know exactly how the C++ (gau) gauges work, if they use 256 colors 8 bit or different types of bmps.
In XML gauges are used 256/8 bmps, in these gauges the "transparent" color is the BLACK.

Stefano, look at the colors table in Your paint program, for transparency the cursors for black MUST be at 0,0,0 (Red/Green/Blue) otherwise the transparency DOESN'T work, for example : if Your color is 0,0,1 You'll see a very dark grey, it seems black, but ISN'T (as a gauge's "black" quadrant) !!!

:wavey::wavey::wavey::wavey:

YOU MUST MAKE SURE THAT THE FIRST PIXEL... EXTREME UPPER LEFT (as you look at the bmp) is PURE BLACK...
Otherwise, the transparency is lost... and the rest of the background, of course is pure black...
It happens sometimes that in the process of changing color values down to 256.. there is a "wild pixel" of a color other than pure black (very close to it to the naked eye...
in the extreme upper left...
G.

[mvg3d]

Still a WIP... all comments or suggestions entertained... gun sight is separate bmp...
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3748/18974177779_edd08ec7f7_o.jpg
G.

Hi Carlos,
Sorry, but the gauges position in Your panel are completely WRONG. Take a look at the pictures I posted in this thread...... You'll find the panel drawing with the real gauges position and numbered references to the gauges list (also posted).

:wavey::wavey::wavey:

[mvg3d]

...The gauge presented here is made up of several layers... and can be used on an appropriately programmed gauge...
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/524/19162788635_f55f08eb1e_o.jpg


Hi Carlos,
The OMI-Cerini Artificial Horizon was ALWAYS mounted from the rear of the panel, You must remove the whole mounting flange leaving ONLY the round bezel, the knob and the four screws..... Take a look at the Captain Kurt's post, his gauge is correctly mounted.

:wavey::wavey::wavey:

[mvg3d]

You guys are killing me here :untroubled:. What is the gauge in the panel photo then?

Kelti, here's the O.M.I. Cerini attitude gauge per mgv3d's images.

Hi Captain,
YOU ARE THE BEST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:wavey::wavey::wavey:

[kelticheart]

Gentlemen,

I am awfully sorry, but I have.... :apologetic:....:barf: to spoil the party here.....

I tested the O.M.I.-Cerini - i.e. the historical manufacturer - attitude gauge posted by Capt. Kurt yesterday, when I saw it behaves the opposite of what it should, just like the one I had worked on so hard, my stomach sank to my feet. The attached image shows my test aircraft in a steep dive and the shape of it in the attitude gauge is displayed above the horizon line, while it should be below.

Please, Captain Kurt don't take it bad, your help is always greatly appreciated here, because you are very accurate and historically-minded in every thing you did for CFS2 and the community.

I think the problem is in every Artificial Horizon, or attitude, gauge ever developed for both MS civilian and combat flight sims.

A quick analysis about how attitude gauges work in MS flight simulation world explains the problem. Every gauge has a fixed 'frontal' aircraft shape with a horizon line 'behind' that moves according to the plane movements, showing the position of our aircraft in relation to the horizon line.

The O.M.I.-Cerini has, instead, a fixed frontal horizon line with a mobile aircraft shape behind. Now the concept behind this is totally opposite of the other. In this one, the aircraft shape has to duplicate our plane movements in relation to the horizon line exactly. All of the AH's available in the MS flight simming world I ever saw, work according to the former concept.
Caught at night, in bad weather or in a large cloud, with this AH we will not be able to determine where our aircraft is in relation to the ground. A bit dangerous, I'd say.

This is when strict historical details must yield to flight sim inborn limitations. All of Italian WWII gauges are developed by changing the 'face' of existing ones with suitable bitmaps. I already did a bunch of them together with Beepee, Chalachew, MVG and Peperez, some of them cannot be replicated exactly, because there's nothing available working the same way as the original counterparts. This OMI-Cerini replica is precisely one of them.
I will never upload, or take credit for, a flight instrument giving wrong readings.

Again, I am sorry. We'll have to live with the lookalike that I developed, which works with a fixed plane shape and a mobile horizon line, like all the others.

Cheers!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[stockplane]

Kelti! we have used an incorrect color for the italian cockpit. Only now i have remember that the ufficial color for the interior were the grey/blue light not green, as in the Guacho cockpit.

Instand of the position for the Ba.88 is no correct as write by mvg3d, but i have find an original image in which some instruments are in a different place, probably two version of the instruments panel for this bird.

Kelti when you upload someone of your fatique?

[kelticheart]

Kelti! we have used an incorrect color for the italian cockpit. Only now i have remember that the ufficial color for the interior were the grey/blue light not green, as in the Guacho cockpit.

Instand of the position for the Ba.88 is no correct as write by mvg3d, but i have find an original image in which some instruments are in a different place, probably two version of the instruments panel for this bird.

Kelti when you upload someone of your fatique?

Hi Stockplane,

I imagine instrument layout changed with different variants and even during production runs, like Serie 1, Serie 2 and so on. I too have found differences in pictures of the same aircraft cockpit. If you enter Macchi 202 in Google search field and select "pictures" you will find a beautiful one, probably taken during maintenance in an hangar, or even, at Aeronautica Macchi workshop in Varese, where there's a clock in place of the attitude gauge!

I am waiting for MVG to correct the bitmap of the Centauro, with the side panels angled as in the real bird. Right now he's busy helping Peperez with the conversion of Giuli's S.M. 82 Marsupiale, and I am helping both with new instruments and their layout.

Great novelties in store, especially with new conversions of Italian gauges!

Check below.......:mixed-smiley-010:

A touch of Manuele Villa's skills in producing fine details:

the three red small handles below the oil temp gauges are the exact replica of engine cutoff handles equipping all of multi-engined R.A. aircraft. And they work too...

Cheers!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[stockplane]

Applause!!:applause::applause::applause::applause:

Cheers

[mvg3d]

Kelti! we have used an incorrect color for the italian cockpit. Only now i have remember that the ufficial color for the interior were the grey/blue light not green, as in the Guacho cockpit.

Instand of the position for the Ba.88 is no correct as write by mvg3d, but i have find an original image in which some instruments are in a different place, probably two version of the instruments panel for this bird.

Kelti when you upload someone of your fatique?

Hi Stockplane,
The pic You uploaded is probably from "Ali d'Italia n.19 - Breda 88", I'm sure this pic is from the prototype's cockpit or from a pre-production plane.
All the pics I uploaded yesterday are from Manual & Part's Catalogue (respectively CA508 & CA500) that cover all the 88's production batches and it seems that the panel and the gauges were common for all the series. In CA500 is reported also the complete list of gauges (the AH was the Salmoiraghi-Sperry).
The color of the protective primer used for the cockpits RARELY was standardized by the Italian factories, they used indifferently light blue gray or light green primers. The light green primer (a kind of zinc-chromate enamel for alu surfaces) was widely used on metallic a/c (Breda, Macchi etc.), but it was used also in wooden Construction planes (C.R.D.A.). Don't worry, I think You can leave Your '88 cockpit in light green, a total of 149 Ba.88 were built by Breda (MI) and by I.M.A.M.(NA) in four different production batches and we Italians know the "philosophical" differences between us ......

:wavey::wavey::wavey::wavey:

[gaucho_59]

Hi Carlos,
Sorry, but the gauges position in Your panel are completely WRONG. Take a look at the pictures I posted in this thread...... You'll find the panel drawing with the real gauges position and numbered references to the gauges list (also posted).


Now, you need to enlighten me....
my cockpit:

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3748/18974177779_edd08ec7f7_o.jpg

was based on this photo, purportedly labeled as a B88, to wit:
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24525&stc=1&d=1435317656

Now the gauges are not really very visible... but the positions are exactly those in the photo... what gives...?
and btw, the line drawing with the positions and names of the gauges you posted is really too small to read or interpret...

if you have a larger version that might help...

Carlos

[mvg3d]

if you have a larger version that might help...

Carlos

24552

Regarding the pic You used (uploaded by Stockplane) I answered him in another thread, this pic is from the prototype or from a pre-production plane, the above drawing is from the original manual that covered ALL the production batches.
The gauge's BEZELS positions (NOT their dimensions) in Your panel are right for the prototype, but wrong for the other planes, however COMPLETELY wrong is Your gauge's quadrants choice :
You CANNOT put a generic altimeter and TWO gyroscopic compass indicators in the engine's control panel (the left one), OK, Ba.88 had two altimeters (1000m & 8000m) and two ASI, but NOT there and, finally, Ba.88 NEVER had a Radio-Compass (You put it in the right panel instead the clock).....

:wavey::wavey::wavey::wavey:

[gaucho_59]

Great info and better line drawing.... Thanks again
Can you include the writing describing each number?
G.

[mvg3d]

Great info and better line drawing.... Thanks again
Can you include the writing describing each number?
G.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24440&d=1435078246

:wavey::wavey::wavey::wavey: