Petition to Microsoft in behalf of Dovetail Games

[txnetcop]

MS Flight Simulator has been with us since 1982. I would like to see the next evolutionary step in flight simulation and I have signed this petition. Please sign Matthew Langdon's petition. Microsoft is done with advancing flight simulation but they can let another developer carry the torch and keep the franchise alive.
Ted

https://www.change.org/p/microsoft-studios-let-dovetail-games-become-the-new-official-developer-for-microsoft-flight-simulator?recruiter=214747011&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_content=forward&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition

https://d22r54gnmuhwmk.cloudfront.net/photos/5/dy/bu/bMdYBuFbtxaxxRl-580x326-noPad.jpg


Petitioning Microsoft Studios and 2 othersThis petition will be delivered to:Microsoft Studios

Microsoft

Dovetail Games



Let Dovetail Games become the new official developer for Microsoft Flight Simulator
https://d22r54gnmuhwmk.cloudfront.net/rendr-fe/img/default-user-avatar-dc6f2da9.gif



Matthew Langdon
White Salmon, WA


(https://www.change.org/u/113982605)

Microsoft's Flight Simulator series has long been the most popular and successful consumer flight simulation software franchise in the world since its origins in 1982. Its last release in 2006, Flight Simulator X, has been a long-running and successful simulator beloved by many aviation enthusiasts, hobbyists and gamers worldwide. However, the studio responsible for the MSFS series, ACES Studio, was shut down in 2009, and work on the series was never resumed. The same year, Lockheed Martin secured the rights to the commercial license of the FSX engine, producing Prepar3D, a simulator that has currently far surpassed FSX in capability but is only available for professional or academic use. Casual users are out in the cold as far as new Flight Simulator games are concerned.
Then, along came Dovetail Games, acquiring the rights to republish FSX on Steam which they did in December 2014. To their credit, they've significantly improved things with the Steam version, including better multicore processor support, Windows 8.1 support, restored multiplayer and bug fixes; however, FSX is still a nine-year old game, even on Steam.
Dovetail has secured the license from Microsoft to publish new consumer titles based on Microsoft's flight technology, provided they use their own IP for marketing. Why? Microsoft, please don't let your beloved Flight Simulator series die like this. FSX Steam Edition breathes a little life back, but it won't matter for long if nothing else new arrives. Please, give Dovetail Games the right to make their new 2015 flight software the next official Microsoft Flight Simulator. Hand them the reins to this franchise, since you're not doing anything with it. Let new developers try their hand at restoring the series to its old glory. Phil Spencer, as head of Microsoft's Xbox and gaming division, you have promised to show renewed interest in PC gamers and revisiting old IPs. Please let the MS Flight Simulator series be continued. And Dovetail Games, do whatever it takes to get the rights to inherit the series' legacy.
Sincerely,
A Flight Simulator fan

[dhazelgrove]

All very fine - and very emotive - but what guarantees are there for the rights of the independent developer (freeware or payware)?

Call me a dinosaur, but I don't like this at all.

Dave

[flaviossa]

Dovetail is already creating their own flight simulator as we speak. And i´m not talking about FSX SE. What´s the purpose of this petition today?

[txnetcop]

If Microsoft would give them full rights under their license both would benefit as well as the community at large. Microsoft has given up on this franchise but tied everyone's hands forcing Dovetail and others to try to build their own flight simulator. Why reinvent the wheel if it already rolls well? My opinion...I really want to see as real as it gets become just that not some PS4 game. Totally outside of Microsoft I fear that it will become just that...

[heywooood]

well I signed it Ted...no harm in voicing support as far as I can see

[Peg o my heart]

Call me conservative but this seems unlikely. I am happy with fsx. If I would ever look elsewhere, P3D is waiting in the horison (or X-Planes?) But thanks for the TS.

Wow.. 1982.. 33 years. MSFS is older than the aging 737-300

[dvj]

P3D ??? Lockheed continues excellent refinement of the MS platform. If Dovetail wants rights to MS property, they should tender an offer. As if MS is going to give FSX rights away because of a signed petition? Not! Real businesses don't negotiate this way.

[vl82m]

P3D ??? Lockheed continues excellent refinement of the MS platform. If Dovetail wants rights to MS property, they should tender an offer. As if MS is going to give FSX rights away because of a signed petition? Not! Real businesses don't negotiate this way.

True, rich corporations don't care about people.

[txnetcop]

P3D ??? Lockheed continues excellent refinement of the MS platform. If Dovetail wants rights to MS property, they should tender an offer. As if MS is going to give FSX rights away because of a signed petition? Not! Real businesses don't negotiate this way.

Actually that is not entirely true, the corporation I worked for 17 years did just that, but anyway this is simply a petition to see if we in this community can get the ear of M$. I am aware that M$ is not in the habit of listening to the Flight Simulator groups any longer but there is a small hope that some good can come of it. What do you lose by signing except 3 minutes of your time? By the way...this is not my petition but it is gaining some steam so I signed and have asked others to consider it.
Ted

[glh]

P3D ??? Lockheed continues excellent refinement of the MS platform. If Dovetail wants rights to MS property, they should tender an offer. As if MS is going to give FSX rights away because of a signed petition? Not! Real businesses don't negotiate this way.
================================================== ==============================
You're exactly right. Tender an offer to Microsoft to buy their intellectual property OR develop your own flight sim software. It's called competition. I seriously doubt Microsoft will just give this away.

[Dumonceau]

True, rich corporations don't care about people.

I couldn't agree with you more! They want our money and they want us to pay THEIR taxes!! They should let go of OUR sim, and have us continue enoying our hobby.

[txnetcop]

If you will take a minute and look at most of your receipts from various stores you will find that they request survey material. The reason they do this is make better products and address consumer needs. Every corporation that produces a product has a Quality Control Department and Marketing Department. All of these are there for the consumer. If business did not listen to their customers we would have very poor product available to the pubic but products tend to get better because of customer input. Granted this is an unsolicited petition but some petitions have changed businesses and governments. If we take the negative and passive approach we won't change anything. Everything is possible though the outcome may not be exactly the way we all like it. It is still worth the effort to try.

[RAS_JF]

Don't worry, they already do have the right to continue the brand using the existing MS code. Dovetail didn't get an exclusive flight sim deal from Microsoft unopposed...
They will have the choice of either developing a new sim using FSX as the base, or using Flight. Before anyone get's hot under the collar at the mention of Flight - there was a lot more in the code than it appeared. FS11 was already well underway before MS made the crazy decision to turn it into a cut down free-to-play thing. Add the world scenery back in and restore the new ATC system that was under development and you'd actually have a very solid new sim.

[ViperPilot2]

The folks at Mt. Redmond have much bigger fish to fry, than listening to another bemoaning cry from the Wilderness about FlightSim. Besides, no matter who eventually 'takes over' the reins and creates a "new" FlightSim... they will have to endure the never ending diatribe from the Community to the tune of "No matter what it is... it still ain't good enough".

The Dev Team will invariably leave out one (or more) attributes in the Sim engine, to where someone will complain about their inability to use their "CaptainFroogleSimPMDG Telefunkin' U-47bis" with the "BlowMindSim Heathrow XXVIILIX" Scenery, and then proceed to start a FB Page, raking the Dev Team over the coals. Hence, "No matter what it is... it still ain't good enough".

If whatever is on the market ain't 'good enough', then maybe the $$ that was spent on that water cooled, 24 core, 500GHz CPU, 60Tb SSD equipped behemoth and all of those add-ons should have been used for other purposes...

like getting a RW Pilot's License, and learning to FLY!

:dizzy:

[Bjoern]

"We wanted to both licence Microsoft's aviation technology to make our own product and also re-release FSX on Steam - there was considerable complexity in this plan and it took over a year to finalize."
...
"We have assembled the core team who will be designing and creating our new flight simulator."
...
"We are very keen to involve third party developers in the flight simulator we are developing. We want to learn from their historic experiences to ensure that we help them achieve their goals rather than stand in the way. Third party developers are the reason that FSX still has an active audience today and our respect for their work could not be higher."
...
"We are still in the design stage so we can’t disclose too much, but key priorities are to update the simulator in the context of improvements in PC technology and operating system features over the last eight years. We also want to provide a more integrated environment for add-ons, expansions and community interaction."
...
"...we are licensed to release FSX on Steam and to develop products based on that technology."
...
"We are not sure we will follow this model for FSX and our follow-on developments, but we are committed to this audience for the long term.
We understand the needs of aviation hobbyists. We know that you want a huge variety of high quality aircraft to fly and you want to do this in the most realistic settings. We aim to satisfy this requirement.
We respect and understand the value that third parties bring to the flight simulation world. We want to work with these teams to make better content and deliver that content in accessible and wide reaching ways."

http://forum.avsim.net/page/index.html/_/pri-news/avsim-interview-with-tim-gatland-cto-doveta-r2755

[Rudyjo]

I'm still surprised that Paul Allen of Microsoft didn't fight harder to keep Flight Simulator going.
From what I understand, he had an interest in Aviation, I think he even has an Aviation Museum.

[Naismith]

well I signed it Ted...no harm in voicing support as far as I can see
My feelings too. I signed it.

[Dumonceau]

If you will take a minute and look at most of your receipts from various stores you will find that they request survey material. The reason they do this is make better products and address consumer needs. Every corporation that produces a product has a Quality Control Department and Marketing Department. All of these are there for the consumer.

In any company, any company whatsoever, the Marketing Department is there for the stock holders, never for the customer. The Marketing depts is there to lure us into faulty products.

[Navy Chief]

I am in agreement with the wording in the petition, but hesitant to sign it because of the host site: Change.org. I am always leary of signing online petitions, because afterwards, I begin receiving solicitation emails from various companies. I Googled Change.org, and read a couple comments that are disturbing:

"Under certain conditions, signatures and other private information including email addresses can be found by search engines. Change.org operates a system for signature hiding, which works only if the user has an account on Change.org, but it does not work if the signature was forged or appears on another site operated by Change.org, PetitionOnline."

and

"Change.org has also been accused of selling the personal data provided by the users to third-party companies that hire its services, gaining money at the expense of the users."

So, although I DO agree with the premise behind the petition, I personally have to avoid signing in online. But, that's just me.

NC

[txnetcop]

In any company, any company whatsoever, the Marketing Department is there for the stock holders, never for the customer. The Marketing depts is there to lure us into faulty products.

I was Director of Marketing of my division and we spoke often at board meetings of our quest for consumer loyalty and gearing our products toward the consumer's wishes (at least as close as possible.) Marketing is NOT geared toward directing people toward faulty products...products are always evolving into what the consumer needs as closely as possible.

[Francois]

I think you can be reasonably certain that this option has been discussed at length between Dovetail and MS. ;-)

[StormILM]

As discussed in my P3D x64 themed thread, one way or another & regardless of points or arguments, if this hobby is to survive and bring in new blood(users and developers) then it needs to be evolved. If not, the hour glass is running out and faster than many of us realize. I'm in & I sincerely hope for success on this....

[heywooood]

I think you can be reasonably certain that this option has been discussed at length between Dovetail and MS. ;-)

of course it has...but this is just a show of hands from the community as an interested party, that we would collectively support both MS and the Dovetail Group moving FULLY forward with the franchise whichever way it pans out.
A simple show of hands from the gallery - an important, if occasionally overlooked piece of the pie

[Double J]

FSX is dead. So is FSX11 . The next FS will be based on Microsoft Flight. if a bunch of computer hacks can move MS Flight to the next level you can bet DTG has gone even farther.

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/460162-flight-toolkit-113/

[Double J]

I am in agreement with the wording in the petition, but hesitant to sign it because of the host site: Change.org. I am always leary of signing online petitions, because afterwards, I begin receiving solicitation emails from various companies. I Googled Change.org, and read a couple comments that are disturbing:

"Under certain conditions, signatures and other private information including email addresses can be found by search engines. Change.org operates a system for signature hiding, which works only if the user has an account on Change.org, but it does not work if the signature was forged or appears on another site operated by Change.org, PetitionOnline."

and

"Change.org has also been accused of selling the personal data provided by the users to third-party companies that hire its services, gaining money at the expense of the users."

So, although I DO agree with the premise behind the petition, I personally have to avoid signing in online. But, that's just me.

NC


+1 Change.org is a glorified spam machine.

[Mach3DS]

P3D is where I will be going...I'm not going to bother with a game developer when Lockheed is committed to flight training and will ensure that realism is the standard. Once Tacpack is P3D compliant which is 2015 deliverable via VRS's road map post a few days ago, I will completely move to P3D only. They will actively develop it under the academic licence and it will be very robust. At least from what I hear regarding v3. Now if it turns out that DTG actually releases something noteworthy, then we will have to vet that in due course. In the mean time, Lockheed has actually been releasing regular updates...and i believe in v3 theres supposed to be a graphics change? anyway, I agree with the premise, but I'm also very happy with The direction of P3D and can only think it will get.better and remain more "the same" as far as third party devs go for the future of the community. Just my 02 cents.

[zswobbie1]

Am I a bit confused? Correct me if I am wrong, but it's early & I have not had my morning coffee yet.
So, this petition is for Microsoft to give Dovetail the right to make their new 2015 flight software the next official Microsoft Flight Simulator. Hand them the reins to this franchise, since you're not doing anything with it. Let new developers try their hand at restoring the series to its old glory. Phil Spencer, as head of Microsoft's Xbox and gaming division, you have promised to show renewed interest in PC gamers and revisiting old IPs. Please let the MS Flight Simulator series be continued. And Dovetail Games, do whatever it takes to get the rights to inherit the series' legacy.

Now, here's the thing, as I've mentioned before..
1. Dovetail is re-distributing FSX, with DLC's, & compatible with 99.9% of current FSX add-ons.
2. Dovetail will, as claimed by themselves, be developing their own sim, based of Microsoft flight(?) technology.
3. This petition is for YET another sim, developed by Dovetail, based on Microsoft's technology once again.

So, we will have a choice between FSX: Steam, Dovetail's own sim, & another Dovetail sim based on the same technology?
Also, for those serious 'not for entertainment' guys, P3D?

I so do agree with 000rick000's comments & opinion.

Phew, the mind boggles... those poor developers..
Picture this...
Those already developing for FSX, those making sure their installers work with FSX:Steam,
Those getting involved with FSX:Steam's DLC's, those that will/might develop for Dovetail's own sim, & now also having to develop for the franchise that this petition is all about?

Good grief! Lets all get real.. FSX has been licensed to Dovetail for re-release & also, maybe, just maybe, the core for their own sim.
The pro/commercial version of FSX (ESP) is with LM, & we know what they are doing with that.
Microsoft Flight Sim, as we know it, is dead, long live Flight Sim!

Can someone please explain to me/us as to what is actually wanted by petitioning Microsoft yet again?

[dhazelgrove]

It's all to do with money, of course.

Dave

[zswobbie1]

Mathew, in his petion states.....Phil Spencer, as head of Microsoft's Xbox and gaming division, you have promised to show renewed interest in PC gamers and revisiting old IPs.

www.kitguru.net states...."It sounds like Spencer might have plans to further unite PC gaming and the Xbox brand: “I definitely want gamers out there to feel like the fact that Microsoft is both the Windows company and the Xbox company is a good thing for them. We’ll have more to say in 2015, I think it can be a real good thing for gamers–the fact that Microsoft has a strong gaming presence on a PC and on their television.”

In addition to this news, we do know that Microsoft is also working on the DirectX 12 API, allowing low level hardware access for PCs, which should help PC developers take better advantage of graphics cards. The new API is due to release next year as well.
It is possible that this new approach somehow intertwines with Microsoft’s goals for Windows 10. The company has touted ‘one platform’ for all devices, uniting the desktop, laptop and mobile experience- maybe we will see this new thought process affect the gaming side of the company as well."

Do we want simming on an XBox?
If a petition is meant to be serious, it should have correct infomation. Not 'smoke & mirrors'. The petition, at the moment, has 23 supporters, of 5000 needed.

[zswobbie1]

Mathew, please explain what exactly the petition is all about? What do you want Dovetail to do that they are not?

From Wikipedia:
Lockheed Martin Prepar3DIn 2009 Lockheed Martin announced that they had negotiated with Microsoft to purchase the intellectual property (including source code) for the Microsoft ESP (Enterprise Simulation Platform) product. Microsoft ESP is the commercial-use version of "Flight Simulator X SP2". On May 17, 2010,[13] (http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Microsoft_Flight_Simulator#citenote13) Lockheed announced that the new product based upon the ESP source code would be called "Prepar3D (http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Lockheed_Martin_Prepar3D)" (pronounced "Prepared"). Lockheed hired members of the original ACES Studio team to continue development of the product. Version 1.1 was released in April 2011, with a retail license cost of US$499.[14] (http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Microsoft_Flight_Simulator#citenote14) A developer license is also available for a monthly fee of US$9.95. In March 2012, along with the release of version 1.3, the pricing strategy was revised. The Professional edition is now available for US$199, with an Academic License available for US$59.95.
Dovetail GamesOn July 9, 2014, Dovetail Games (http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Dovetail_Games) have announced Microsoft had granted them rights to develop the next Flight Simulator in the series. Dovetail Games also announced the release of Flight Simulator X: Gold Edition on Steam (http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Steam_%28software%29) for late 2014 named Microsoft Flight Simulator X: Steam Edition. Microsoft Flight Simulator X: Steam Edition was released on 18th December 2014, and is a re-release of FSX Gold Edition, which includes the Deluxe and Acceleration packs and both Service Packs. It includes "all standard Steam functionality", and replaces the GameSpy (http://www.wikiwand.com/en/GameSpy) multiplayer system with Steam's multiplayer system.

[ejoiner]

I thought Microsoft already licensed this to Lockheed Martin as Prepar3D? LMCO has an active development team that works on P3D. I would view this as the official next generation of Flight Simulation.

[Gibbage]

As someone who personally worked on Flight, and as someone who KNOWS the guy working on the tool kit, you will never get 100% access to all the systems you need. Sure you can cheat a few new things into the game, but without access to the code and the ability to compile new code, you wont get much out of the Flight engine. I cant really get into details due to NDA, but simply put, you cant operate a machine that is half built to full capacity.


FSX is dead. So is FSX11 . The next FS will be based on Microsoft Flight. if a bunch of computer hacks can move MS Flight to the next level you can bet DTG has gone even farther.

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/460162-flight-toolkit-113/