Ship Dynamics - Pitch and Roll?

[Shadow Wolf 07]

In a thread long ago I read that it is possible to increase the pitch nd roll of ships - carriers specifically - by increasing the numbers in the [Dynamics} para on the cfg file.

What is a good but not too challenging pitch and roll combination? The stock ships have nothing there - no entries. Collin's 43 and 44 Essex Class have no entries either.

The VN Carriers show:

[Dynamics]
pitch_wave_moment_scale = 1
bank_wave_moment_scale = 1
pitch_damp_moment_scale = 1
bank_damp_moment_scale = 1

Usio's carriers vary greatly from:

;[Dynamics]
; �r“VŽž
;pitch_wave_moment_scale = 22
;bank_wave_moment_scale = 40
;pitch_damp_moment_scale = 10
;bank_damp_moment_scale = 16

...for the JMK USS Lexington to:

[Dynamics]
pitch_wave_moment_scale = 1
bank_wave_moment_scale = 1
pitch_damp_moment_scale = 1
bank_damp_moment_scale = 1

...for the JMK IJN Ryujo. And the other warships and cargo ships don't seem to follow any particular rule. Your thoughts?

[sc7500]

I set my ships for a fairly moderate "sea condition":

[Dynamics]
pitch_wave_moment_scale = 4
bank_wave_moment_scale = 3
pitch_damp_moment_scale = 1
bank_damp_moment_scale = 2

Looks about right from the air ~ haven't tried tweaking them much since 2004....

SC
:kilroy:

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Thank you! Any other ideas opinions or suggestions?

[Collin]

I don't believe the cfg file will recognize any figure higher then 10.

I did add the dynamics to the earlier carriers I made but peeps complained that they couldn't land (wuzzes), so I left them off of the Essex lot.

regards Collin:friday:

[Shadow Wolf 07]

That's a shame Collin, even just a little realism makes the game better. I have a few - and I can't remember where I got them:

SHA_Lexington_CV16, SHA_Hornet_CV12, SHA_Bunker_Hill_CV17, SHA_Bennington_CV20 for example that have..

[Dynamics]
pitch_wave_moment_scale = -3
bank_wave_moment_scale = 6
pitch_damp_moment_scale = 1
bank_damp_moment_scale = 1

But then shouldn't the escorts and auxilliary ahips be rockin and rollin too?

[Collin]

[Dynamics]
pitch_wave_moment_scale = -3
bank_wave_moment_scale = 6
pitch_damp_moment_scale = 1
bank_damp_moment_scale = 1

But then shouldn't the escorts and auxilliary ahips be rockin and rollin too?

Yes, they should, but then you would get complaints moaning about how they can't be torpedoed.:faint:

What does the minus sign in front of the 3 do?

regards Collin:karate:

[Shadow Wolf 07]

"What does the minus sign in front of the 3 do?"

I don't know... I was hoping ypou would. I have to do some test flights and see

[Collin]

Suggest you make a mission with 2 ships that have the same dynamics but the minus sign is omitted on one of them. If they are side by side you can watch what happens.

regards Collin:friday:

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Suggest you make a mission with 2 ships that have the same dynamics but the minus sign is omitted on one of them. If they are side by side you can watch what happens.

regards Collin:friday:

Good suggestion. I just set up a pair of missions with 2 carriers: one has the 1,1,1,1 settings the other has the -3,6,11 settings. I take off from each with the 2 missions in the SB2C w/bombs, heavy to see if I get the same climbing and control problems that Cowboy_1968 refered to. I will land on each and observe each both from the deck and in the air. I'll do the test flights later and post the results. Also, I'll add one more carrier of the same size and author with the minus sign omitted.

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Collin, I used your Hancock 44 at 1,1,1,1; Randoph 44 at -3,6,1,1 and Shangril La 44 at 3,6,1,1.

I flew Wolfi's SB2C off the Randoph 44 first. I had no problems taking off or landing. Some spray was coming over the bow. Looking over at the Hancock, I noticed she was showing some pitch and roll but not much. The Shangri La looked like she was in heavy seas. Being an Army puke I don't know the terms but there are 2 bands of paint on the lower hull - one black and one red. Pitching down, the black band was almost completely submerged. Pitching up, 3 to 4 times the thickness of the black band was showing in red!

Later, after landing on Shangri La, It looked like it had about a 10* roll. Looking over at the Rabdolph I could see she had less than half the pitch that I had observed on the Shangri La.

I didn't bother with taking off/landing on the Hancock 44 because she looked fairly tame. I'd say the 1,1,1,1 setting is good for a standard and the -3,6,1,1 is good but more challenging.

[Collin]

Could you please repeat the experiment, but, this time, grab some piccies?

The spray is interesting, (and might become more interesting if you use the cruiser bow wave thats on my site at the bottom), I wonder if the spray will show on the aircraft windshield?

But well done, every little development helps and the dynamics is one of those unexplained.

regards Collin:ernae:

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Sure, but I have to do it on my desktop. I've been doing all this stuff on my laptop and the &%)@$! Vista OS doesn't like my Grab Clip Save or Fraps! I'll copy over the mission files to my XP desktop, where the screenshot and video work fine probably tomorrow.

Yeah, the bow spray was cool. I use Nibbio's effects for wakes, smoke, fires, debris and such and noticed the spray before but never focused on it.

[Blue Devil]

That's a shame Collin, even just a little realism makes the game better. I have a few - and I can't remember where I got them:

SHA_Lexington_CV16, SHA_Hornet_CV12, SHA_Bunker_Hill_CV17, SHA_Bennington_CV20 for example that have..

[Dynamics]
pitch_wave_moment_scale = -3
bank_wave_moment_scale = 6
pitch_damp_moment_scale = 1
bank_damp_moment_scale = 1

But then shouldn't the escorts and auxilliary ahips be rockin and rollin too?

Well...

...that would be me.

Alternate the signs (+/- ) of the "pitch_wave_moment_scale = n" and the "bank_wave_moment_scale = n" of Ships that are typically in the same formation (e.g. to Essex/Bunker Hill) so that they are not synchronous.

i.e.
pitch_wave_moment_scale = (-) (-) (+) (+)
bank_wave_moment_scale = (-) (+) (-) (+)

Negative (-) "pitch_wave_moment_scale = n" is preferred, ...as it starts the motion w/ a bow up movement that is faster than the damped return motion, ...so use it on the ships you launch off most. Set "pitch" so that the stern is not awash, ...then set the value of the bank(n) to 2x pitch(n).

Set the CV's so the A/C don't slide off the flight-deck (yeh, ...ya wuss Air Force types, ...become NAVAL AVIATORS, ...or stick to yer two(2) mile long runways.)

As far as I can tell, ...the "damp" just reduces the entire dynamic, ...so just leave it on "1".

And yes, ...add [Dynamics] to the .cfg's of ALL your Ships.

e.g.

sha_mahan.mdl
[Dynamics]
pitch_wave_moment_scale = -4
bank_wave_moment_scale = -8
pitch_damp_moment_scale = 1
bank_damp_moment_scale = 1

afvn_SanDiego.mdl
[Dynamics]
pitch_wave_moment_scale = 3
bank_wave_moment_scale = 6
pitch_damp_moment_scale = 1
bank_damp_moment_scale = 1

sha_essex_cv9.mdl
[Dynamics]
pitch_wave_moment_scale = -3
bank_wave_moment_scale = 6
pitch_damp_moment_scale = 1
bank_damp_moment_scale = 1

Enjoy.

[Collin]

Thanks BD, (nice to hear from you again).

Though there is an art to landing on a pitching deck as well, especially if yer damaged:help:

regards Collin:ernae:

[Devildog73]

You guys really do not like my propellers and wings do you? :bump:

I break enough already damaged aircraft from missions without a rockin' and a rollin' flight deck to bring my wounded bird back to.

My ground crew always has to patch any old girl I go up in, 'cause I always overstay my welcome on missions and bring the girls home without ammo left and very little fuel.

Not sure I could miss the landing and come back around for a second go of it!

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Thanks BD! I'll work with it :wavey:

"Though there is an art to landing on a pitching deck as well, especially if yer damaged:help: "

"I break enough already damaged aircraft from missions without a rockin' and a rollin' flight deck to bring my wounded bird back to."

Indeed...

[Blue Devil]

Thanks BD, (nice to hear from you again).

Though there is an art to landing on a pitching deck as well, especially if yer damaged:help:

regards Collin:ernae:

You too Mate...


Try snaggin' a wire in a Corsair w/ this on your CVE:

uss_sicily50.mdl
[Dynamics]
pitch_wave_moment_scale = -3
bank_wave_moment_scale = 7
pitch_damp_moment_scale = 1
bank_damp_moment_scale = 1


As for Tut's:

"F4U Corsair Carrier Qualification"
by Fred "Crash" Blechman (http://www2.xlibris.com/bookstore/book_excerpt.asp?bookid=98)

Enjoy.

[Shadow Wolf 07]

As per Collin's request I redid my experiment. I took 22 pictures and made a video. First off let me say that I forgot when I loaded Jean Bomber's Truk scenery that the textures packs would overwrite my sea colors textures. I hate that Pactex Hudson River/Bayonne NJ slime green for the ocean. I have since put my stock water colors back in.

Anyway, the screenshots don't show the bow spray as well as the video... without the sensation pf motion it just looks like a slightly faded shot. The video is a bit jumpy because every time I hit the printscreen key, FRAPS and GrabClipSave took a screenshot and I got lag. Also sloppy editing comes into play :)

Both landings and especially the second are a bit bumpy but my plane stayed in one piece. I'm way out of practice!

Since there are a total of 22 pictures, I'll just post the link to my Photobucket page where they are uploaded. Oh, and for som reason, they uploaded in reverse order. Pictures start at the bottom of page 18 and continuing on page 19:

http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j220/Pechora07/?start=340

The direct link to the video is:

http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j220/Pechora07/?action=view&current=PitchandRoll.flv


Cheers :ernae:

[Collin]

Well done Shadow, I have studied both the vid and the piccies, thank you for taking the time to make them.

Points to note..

The spray, while it looks good is actually coming up through the model deck of the ship. This is happens because the special effect system ignores all solid models and does its own thing once triggered. But if you noticed it didn't spatter the cockpit glass like the rain effect does.

The rolling motion imparts an impetus to the aircraft model (this is also seen on the cockpit hud), and also makes the tires flatten or the whole wheel rise above the deck (vid time about 5.34).

The dynamics seem to make the ship move as if she was in a moderate to heavy swell.

Your landings are as good as mine, now try the Sicily.:faint:

Well done.

regards Collin:ernae:

[Shadow Wolf 07]

"Your landings are as good as mine, now try the Sicily.":faint:

Will do :) It seems that with all my add-on darriers, the LSO gives me a wave off as soon as he pops up. I may have to find a way to eliminate him.

[Cody Coyote]

"I may have to find a way to eliminate him"

If you really want to eliminate him just delete the lso.gau gauge, but you probably knew this.

Interesting thread. I for one appreciate your testing. I think many of us have known this needed to be done but never took the time. The video and pictures really bring it home. Thanks! :applause:

[Helldiver]

I'm curious, What do you use for a moment?? You can't have a carrier pitching and rolling like a 8 foot pram.
It would be a 10 or 15 second moment in roll and probably 5 to 10 seconds in pitch.
Plus the pitch was not a constant. Every ninth wave would be a doozer. Sometimes, come right over the flight deck.
Maybe you should have a sequence, play it and then repeat itself. Does this make sense to anybody?

[Collin]

Sorry Helldiver but the "dynamics" is worked out by the cfs2 engine, it isn't a special effect. We cannot at this time change the timing, (though if the engine works it out by the length of the vessel we may have a chance).

regards Collin:ernae:

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Stand by Helldiver and Collin. I'm gonna do more testing with a "jeep" carrier like Collin suggested and see if I can get a visual on BBs CAs and DDs to boot.

Having a bad day and must take a couple of pain pills and lie down... I'll get to it though.

Thanks fot the "atta boy" Cody and Collin :jump:

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Done... I used the VN North Carolina Class BB, VN Baltimore Class CA, VN Fletcher Class DD and Collin's beautiful CVE Sicily, all sailing at 25 knots (no wind) and all set on:

[Dynamics]
pitch_wave_moment_scale = -3
bank_wave_moment_scale = 6
pitch_damp_moment_scale = 1
bank_damp_moment_scale = 1

I didn't take any screenshots this time but I took some good on deck views of all the ships. The BB and DD don't seem to pitch as much as I expected, but everything looked cool. As you will see it was difficult to hold the ships in the center of the field of view, but I did the best I could. :typing: I did two take offs and landings in the video:

http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j220/Pechora07/?action=view&current=PitchnRoll2.flv

I may set all my ships to that setting ecept for the carriers, which I'll probably set to:

[Dynamics]
pitch_wave_moment_scale = -2
bank_wave_moment_scale = 4
pitch_damp_moment_scale = 1
bank_damp_moment_scale = 1

so it's not so obviously vilolent on the carriers :monkies:

[sc7500]

SW, that's a little TOO realistic for my stomach...

I watched about 20 seconds of your vid and started gettin' that old time seasickness.....

Which, I suppose, is an odd form of compliment !

SC
:kilroy:

[Collin]

Good work Shadow, playing with that 'little'un' will help yer landings on the bigger one's:wavey:

Having the dynamic's set too high can bounce you off the deck, I wonder if Psullykeys has put dynamics into those ships he is testing? Then sc7500 could really appreciate the rolling:faint:

regards Collin:ernae:

[Blue Devil]

W/ regard to Helldiver's comments...

I find that for Carriers (both fleet and jeep):

[Dynamics]
pitch_wave_moment_scale = -4
bank_wave_moment_scale = 4
pitch_damp_moment_scale = 1
bank_damp_moment_scale = 1

has the best combination of dynamic deck motion, ...

...and smooth, ...large ship sea motion.


Have reset all the CV/CVL/CVE's to reflect this delta.


Thanks for the input (and the service) Helldiver.

[Helldiver]

I've had a stroke so don't remember so good with hole in the brain. But I can remember writing some code where you could set up a set of statements and then go to return to: and start the whole sequence up over again.
Will some old MS DOS guy help me out here. I know it can happen.

[Shadow Wolf 07]

I'll give it a try BD, thanks. :kiss:

[bearcat241]

wave_moment = magnitude of movement, effects wave height

damp_moment = speed of movement (dampen means "to stiffen", the lower this value the slower the overall movement from crest, the highest point, and a trough, the lowest; lower bank_damp slows rocking as well)


Sorry, had to correct that last part of my comment...

[Blue Devil]

wave_moment = magnitude of movement, effects wave height

damp_moment = speed of movement (dampen means "to stiffen", the lower this value the slower the overall movement from crest, the highest point, and a trough, the lowest; lower bank_damp slows rocking as well)


Sorry, had to correct that last part of my comment...

In my tests...

The period (time) of both the pitch and roll motion is constant, ...

...and the roll is twice the pitch. (2R = P)

Increasing moment to either one just increases the amplitude of the motion, ...not the period.

The Damp seems to be an inverse function to Moment.

i.e.

Moment = 6
Damp = 3

Dynamic = 6/3 = 2

EDIT:
P.S For that 4,4,1,1 Carrier Dynamic....

On the stock Essex at stock spot location (-70), ...the deck heave is twenty(20') feet (+10/-10).

[Helldiver]

Now in real heavy seas the Destroyers put in for Sub pay. Everything is covered with water, except for the top of the mast and the stacks. That's why the stacks are so tall. I got pictures of them somewhere.
If there are any Destroyer men out there, they will vouch for what I'm saying. 'Course the reverse was true, when they come out of the water you could hear the props scream and the whole bow would be out of water.
I'd like to see a movie when you guys are through.

[Devildog73]

Helldiver, I spent a few days here and there at sea. I much preferred the USS Blueridge and carriers to LSTs and DEs.

[Ghostrider]

There is a way to whack the LSO - I did it back in the day - 2001 or so - but don't remember how to do it - what CVs are you using? They look fantastic! Nice video! Stand by for Operation "Hailstone"!

GR

[Tango_Romeo]

There is a way to whack the LSO - I did it back in the day - 2001 or so - but don't remember how to do it - what CVs are you using? They look fantastic! Nice video! Stand by for Operation "Hailstone"!

GR

See Cody's earlier post, or you can just close his window when it opens.

The CVEs are Collin's from CG's Shipyard.
:wavey:

[Tango_Romeo]

....while you're testing the movement settings, why not test the LSO settings in the Ship.CFG file at the same time?

Kill two birds...so to speak.:engel016:

[Blue Devil]

There is a way to whack the LSO - I did it back in the day - 2001 or so - but don't remember how to do it - what CVs are you using? They look fantastic! Nice video! Stand by for Operation "Hailstone"!

GR

1. CFS2 main folder/"default_panels.cfg"/

[Window00]
window_pos=0.36,0.26
window_size=0.16,0.21
size_mm=66,66
nomenu=1
sizeable=1
visible=1
type=SPECIAL
ident=LSO_WINDOW

;gauge00=lso!lso,0,0

Just add the ";" in front of the gauge line.


2. CFS2 main folder/GAUGES/"lso.gau"

Just re-name this gauge file. (though the prog will look for it, ...so use option 1)

[Shadow Wolf 07]

"There is a way to whack the LSO - I did it back in the day - 2001 or so - but don't remember how to do it - what CVs are you using? They look fantastic! Nice video! Stand by for Operation "Hailstone"! "

GR, I used Collin's CV's - Essex Class 44 and his CVE Sicily - http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2shipyard.htm

You can take the LSO out completely by doing as Cody Coyote said: in the Gauges folder, rename the lso.gau file or delete it entirely. Or use BD's suggestion to turn him off (above). Also, in each game you fly, you can Pause and right click on the rascal and close the window. Thanks for the compliment. :)

TR: I don't know how (what numbers to change) to adjust the settings other than to make the LSO window larger or smaller.

[Jagdflieger]

Here are a couple more tips on the LSO and his performance (or lack of it).

1. You can vary the LSO window size and location by editing his data in the default_panels.cfg file.

[Window00]
window_pos=2.03,0.03
window_size=0.16,0.21
size_mm=66,66
nomenu=1
sizeable=1
visible=1
type=SPECIAL
ident=LSO_WINDOW

If you want, you can make the window very small and put it up in the top or bottom corner of your screen to get him out of the way but still keep him on salary.

2. You can also adjust his signals to allow for faster or slower aircraft. Go to the Aircraft.cfg file and (add if not present) edit thie following:

[LSO]
LSOAdjustSpeed=0.65

As I recall, a higher number is used for faster approaches and a lower number for slower aircraft. As this data entry is or can be in each aircraft's .cfg file, you can vary it for jets to biplanes.

3. LSO removal. I get a black window when I just turn off the gauge so I also turn off the entire LSO window with a semicolen. Again, go to your default_panels.cfg file and:

[Window Titles]
;Window00=Landing Signal Officer

;[Window00]
window_pos=2.03,0.03
window_size=0.16,0.21
size_mm=66,66
nomenu=1
sizeable=1
visible=1
type=SPECIAL
ident=LSO_WINDOW

I guess just turning off either entry would work, but it doesn't cost anything to turn both entries off and it works well.

[Ghostrider]

Now I'm going to have to redo all of my Hailstone missions with your ships! (With your permission, of course) Shows what I know. I didn't even know about them until I saw SW's video. My jaw hit the floor. Your ships are stunning!

GR

[Collin]

All the above will work but I just luv shooting the SOB:amen:

Go for it Ghostrider.

regards Collin:ernae:

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Now I'm going to have to redo all of my Hailstone missions with your ships! (With your permission, of course) Shows what I know. I didn't even know about them until I saw SW's video. My jaw hit the floor. Your ships are stunning!

GR

They are indeed! But watch what you use in the target area. I substituted Usio's ships for Stock in my "Leyte Gulf" mission and the 4 Usio carriers, 2 battleships and a handfull of cruisers and destroyers (framerate hogs all) turned my mission into a slide show whenever 3 or more ships are in the field of view. :kilroy:

Some stills of Collin's carriers:

[Blue Devil]

A question for the crew...

...Did WWII Essex class CV's (and jeeps for that matter) have lighted (marker) flight decks? ...or just illuminated from exterior lighting?

[Jagdflieger]

I don't know BD. I do know that during the Battle of the Philippine Sea (Marianas Turkey Shoot), Admiral Mitscher had all his TF 58 ships turn on their lights and shine their search lights straight up to beacon the returning strike force back to the fleet. This was after their last attack on Admiral Ozawa's fleet late in the day on the 20th of June 1944.

[bearcat241]

Lighted deck markers were always the standard for night ops, as today, even in blackout conditions. A pilot can't trap a carrier in pitch black at all, unless they have modern night vision equipment. Because of the way they're installed, lighted deck markers can't be seen from the distant sea-level angle of a sub's periscope. Deck flood lighting (red or white conditions) is a separate matter and is used under non-blackout conditions. The searchlight espisode was a combination of redirected carrier deck floodlighting and escort ships also beaming their's skyward.

[Collin]

Hi BD, as Bearcat states, deck lighting was quite common but not used greatly.

The modelled Essex class are accurate as I have a plan of their positions, colours, and shape.

It was RN practise to station a cruiser off the port quarter of carrier while night landings where happening. With a bright white light on her main mast, the incoming aircraft knew when to turn onto the landing flight path, as the plane turned the cruiser would let the carrier know and the lights would be turned on.
Later in the war this cruiser would be slightly repositioned so that FAA Corsair pilots could judge their turn onto finals.

regards Collin:ernae:

[Helldiver]

Shadow Wolf - I looked at your video just now and you got it almost correct. However, the rolling moment was a bit slower than what you show. These were large ships and it took alot to make them roll. I'd give it another second or two. The amount of roll was right it just took longer to cycle.
I would give it a lot more pitch. I mean your looking at nothing but water when the nose is down. So much so, that if the signal officer's timing isn't right he can catapult someone into the sea. I saw it happen to a Lt. Fish. How can I remember something as remote as that after 63 years when I can't remember my telephone number?

[Ghostrider]

You guys have been holding out on me! I've spent most of the day playing - I mean, working on Hailstone missions - with Collin's ships! They put my old SHA_Essex deck repaints to shame! I must say, things are coming together quite well, I think - and between Jean Bomber's scenery, Collin, Usio, and the Virtual Navy's ships, Wolfi's SB2C, and Lyndsay Watt's stuff, things are looking GOOD!

Jean Bomber's scenery is, in fact so detailed, that it is entirely workable to navigate with a kneeboard chart of Truk that each pilot was given in the raid, (and is incluido in the campaign :applause:) And yes, you'll be glad for those deck lights when you're trying to trap in your TBF after the first ever radar-assisted night torpedo attack by VT-10! :wiggle:

GR

[Collin]

Please be aware....

While the VN, Usio san, and myself build ships to accurate measurements and scale 1/1, for some reason the sim represents aircraft at a scale of about .8/1.:kilroy:. Not sure why, but it is noticeable if you have a deck park and try to emulate a carrier photo.

regards Collin:ernae:

[Shadow Wolf 07]

As mentioned before, Usio uses some extreme numbers on his ships. Someone commented that the game won't read 2 digit dynamics figures.

For example, Usio's JMK_Kaga and JMK_CV2_Lexington both use:

;[Dynamics]
; �r“VŽž
;pitch_wave_moment_scale = 22
;bank_wave_moment_scale = 40
;pitch_damp_moment_scale = 10
;bank_damp_moment_scale = 16

What is he trying to accomplish here? should I just chop off the last digit and make them 2,4,1.1 ?

[JapLance]

As mentioned before, Usio uses some extreme numbers on his ships. Someone commented that the game won't read 2 digit dynamics figures.

For example, Usio's JMK_Kaga and JMK_CV2_Lexington both use:

;[Dynamics]
; �r“VŽž
;pitch_wave_moment_scale = 22
;bank_wave_moment_scale = 40
;pitch_damp_moment_scale = 10
;bank_damp_moment_scale = 16

What is he trying to accomplish here? should I just chop off the last digit and make them 2,4,1.1 ?

My guess: these are just left overs from testing, note the ; before those lines, which invalidate them.

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Okay, that's good to know. I just tried the same mission with the CVE_Sicily set at -2,4,1,1. The motion was good but not violent and didn't bounce me around the deck. Sorry, no video - FRAPS won't work on this computer. If you all need one I can do one tomorrow afternoon when I get back from my DAV Chapter. :typing:

Thanks for all your advice and suggestions. :ernae:

[Shadow Wolf 07]

I filmed the second test with the carriers set at -2, 4, 1, 1 and the escorts still as -3, 6, 1, 1. You can see for yourselves the results:

http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j220/Pechora07/?action=view&current=CarrierPitchnRoll-2411.flv

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Here's a video with Collin's Long Hull Essex at:

[Dynamics]
pitch_wave_moment_scale = -2
bank_wave_moment_scale = 4
pitch_damp_moment_scale = 1
bank_damp_moment_scale = 1

I took views from the plane - watch horizon in relation to the leading edge of the flight deck,

External views of a sister ship with the same settings1 1/2 mile to starboard, and an escorting cruiser with settings at:

[Dynamics]
pitch_wave_moment_scale = -3
bank_wave_moment_scale = 6
pitch_damp_moment_scale = 1
bank_damp_moment_scale = 1

Stay with the video and you'll see a divebombing attack on a Japanese flattop and a bit of dogfighting... The whole video is 25 mins long - to long to post - so I cut it at 10 mins.

Link: http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j220/Pechora07/?action=view&current=DivebombingandPitch-Roll.flv

The mission (with stock ships is here at SOH under my downloads, second from the bottom. http://www.sim-outhouse.com/index.php?lloc=downloads&loc=downloads&page=downloads&FileUploadName=Shadow%20Wolf%2007

[Shadow Wolf 07]

I just flew a mission off Usio's USS Lexington CV2 and noticed I had a lot of flight deck behind me at start. No problem, right? Just add 10 or so to the takeoff_start value on the ship.cfg file. Well I first adjusted the pitch and roll and noticed this in the flight dec section:

[flight_deck_section] width=32.5
length=248.6
takeoff_start=0,21,-70 //0,21,-80
takeoff_stop=0,21,120
landing_start=0,500,-5000
landing_touch_down=-0.70,20.3,-82.6
landing_stop=-0.70,20.3,-5

The bold -70 entry is what I changed to -80 but the red //0,21,-80 is something not seen in other carriers' cfgs except for Usio's.

Anyone know what this extra is for, should it be changed too. and if not, can/should it be deleted? :typing:

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Perhaps Collin would know but...

I've noticed that all of Usio's Ships have on the cfg file [Plkatform] entries. I never intend to use the non-carriers as carriers, so are these entries necessary? Can I remove them?

[Collin]

Perhaps Collin would know but...

I've noticed that all of Usio's Ships have on the cfg file [Plkatform] entries. I never intend to use the non-carriers as carriers, so are these entries necessary? Can I remove them?

They can be, but why? The only space they take up is in the .cfg file.


regards Collin:ernae:

[Shadow Wolf 07]

I was just wondering in case I delete some of it inadvertantly while editing the takeoff/landing start/stop info or pasing in my standard [DYNAMICS] paragraph.

[Blue Devil]

I just flew a mission off Usio's USS Lexington CV2 and noticed I had a lot of flight deck behind me at start. No problem, right? Just add 10 or so to the takeoff_start value on the ship.cfg file. Well I first adjusted the pitch and roll and noticed this in the flight dec section:

[flight_deck_section] width=32.5
length=248.6
takeoff_start=0,21,-70 //0,21,-80
takeoff_stop=0,21,120
landing_start=0,500,-5000
landing_touch_down=-0.70,20.3,-82.6
landing_stop=-0.70,20.3,-5

The bold -70 entry is what I changed to -80 but the red //0,21,-80 is something not seen in other carriers' cfgs except for Usio's.

Anyone know what this extra is for, should it be changed too. and if not, can/should it be deleted? :typing:

The "//" hides everything after it from being read.

I use this notation all the time, ...along w/ ";", ...to note changes or alternate settings.

The difference b/t -70 and -80 is preference, ...some like to T.O. spotted first (forward) in a flight, ...others like (or need) the full deck.

You can also use this:
takeoff_start=0,21,-70
; takeoff_start=0,21,-80

and put the ";" in front of the one ya don't want to use...

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Thanx B/D! I'll make a note of that :)

[Shadow Wolf 07]

One last thing: Does adding pitch and roll (similar values) to other combatants and merchant/cargo/tanker ships make them harder to hit?

[Blue Devil]

One last thing: Does adding pitch and roll (similar values) to other combatants and merchant/cargo/tanker ships make them harder to hit?

Well, ...

It would plunge, ...then pull the bow and stern alternately in'n'out of the water (pitch), ...and dip the sides (roll)...

like a real ship in seas...

...Although a lot of the motion on a real ship is also sea motion, ...so a torpecker would also be affected.

I think Pen did some testing on this matter.

It would prob depend on the depth of the .mdl below waterline. (not .dp boxes, ...torp's are contact weapons and need a solid surface to detonate against)

You could prob put a .cfg platform that extends below the WL to be used as a Torp backstop, ...if it misses the .mdl, ...the platform catches it.

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Thanks BD. That recipe is a bit much for may feeble brain. I''ll wait and see what Pen32Win or maybe Collin has to say about it.

[Shadow Wolf 07]

One last thing: Does adding pitch and roll (similar values) to other combatants and merchant/cargo/tanker ships make them harder to hit?


Well, ...

It would plunge, ...then pull the bow and stern alternately in'n'out of the water (pitch), ...and dip the sides (roll)...

like a real ship in seas...

...Although a lot of the motion on a real ship is also sea motion, ...so a torpecker would also be affected.

I think Pen did some testing on this matter.

It would prob depend on the depth of the .mdl below waterline. (not .dp boxes, ...torp's are contact weapons and need a solid surface to detonate against)

You could prob put a .cfg platform that extends below the WL to be used as a Torp backstop, ...if it misses the .mdl, ...the platform catches it.

Anybody know? Pen? Collin?

[Collin]

Anybody know? Pen? Collin?

This is a very good question...quite often in testing with just a small dp ships have collided/passed through each other. It may be the .dp files that actually register the solidity of the model within the sim and the .mdl file that just gives the visual aspect of it.

If this is the case then the .dp file is far more important then we first thought. If this file is thoroughly researched what other secrets of model movements might be discovered?

regards Collin:ernae:

[Shadow Wolf 07]

This is a very good question...quite often in testing with just a small dp ships have collided/passed through each other. It may be the .dp files that actually register the solidity of the model within the sim and the .mdl file that just gives the visual aspect of it.

If this is the case then the .dp file is far more important then we first thought. If this file is thoroughly researched what other secrets of model movements might be discovered?

regards Collin:ernae:

How about a cruiser passing through an aircraft carrier??! :faint:

[Collin]

How about a cruiser passing through an aircraft carrier??! :faint:

They are both on the same side and not registered as 'weapons' within the sim.
It maybe different if they were in opposition and collided.

C

[Blue Devil]

They are both on the same side and not registered as 'weapons' within the sim.
It maybe different if they were in opposition and collided.

C

I have never observed ships colliding, ...only passing through, ...like they do the land masses.

DP boxes collect damage points.

Contact weapons have "1d1*0.0" in the aircraft .dp, ...unlike gun/cannon rounds that have values. This is what the ship.dp reads when any weapon enter a box.

The contact weapon has its "1d1*n" in the object.dp, ...that is activated upon detonation, ...which needs a solid surface. (either .mdl or .cfg/platform)

Your A/C is a contact weapon, ...no .dp points, ...only effects points.

Make a one box ship.dp 500 ft a side:
1. shoot into it.
2. fly through it.
3. fly into the ship.

[bearcat241]

Ships don't have collision crash detection programmed between the mdls and the controlling dll modules as aircraft do. They only have weapon impact programming within limits already discussed above.

[merlin2]

I assume that if you convert a ship to operate as a plane, then you can have the collision option.

[bobhegf]

It would also be nice to convert a plane to work as a ship.

[Collin]

I assume that if you convert a ship to operate as a plane, then you can have the collision option.

Yep, (PSullykeys is the expert on this aspect).

Also remember the cfg file in aircraft is more active.

regards Collin:ernae:

[Shadow Wolf 07]

One last thing: Does adding pitch and roll (similar values) to other combatants and merchant/cargo/tanker ships make them harder to hit?

For those who want to know:

I tried one of my missions that has a Japanese TF of 21 ships - Carriers, Battleships, Cruisers, Destroyers and Torpedo Boats (all stock or stock replacements). The pitch and roll for all is set at -2,4,1,1 as described earlier.

I ran the mission 3 times. There are a lot of attacking planes and I noticed no difference in the hits and sinkings from previous times I ran the mission. I was kinda busy, of course, but it seemed like the torpedo planes had no problems (except for flak) in hitting their targets reliably.