Advisory: HondaJet

[SeanTK]

Just a head's up to any developers considering making a HondaJet:
The company is pursuing take-down notices for any 3d models bearing a resemblance to the aircraft, regardless of if you actually call it a HondaJet or not:

http://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/mailman/flightgear-devel/thread/CAHtsj_eeapC4yj_ioeJHfzGZ6U0RfGPsvKrjyVCHxpJydX2k4 A%40mail.gmail.com/#msg32345712

As you'll see in the thread above, if it's even close to a likeness, it'll likely get the company's attention as they've copyrighted multiple aspects of the aircraft.

A point of good news though (also in that thread) is that Eurocopter (now Airbus Helicopters...ugh) actually seems to encourage flightsim representations of their aircraft, as they were "retweeting" and posting images of a user's in-progress developments of one of their helicopters apparently.

[falcon409]

One word. . ."Stupid".

[ce_zeta]

Honda lost a customer.

[Rudyjo]

Honda lost a customer.

Me too. I was just about to put an order in for one. I had already withdrawn my one million dollar deposit. Oh well, I'll have to put the money back in in bank and get 1/4 percent interest on it.

[airattackimages]

Me too. I was just about to put an order in for one. I had already withdrawn my one million dollar deposit. Oh well, I'll have to put the money back in in bank and get 1/4 percent interest on it.
They also manufacture cars, motorcycles, ATVs, watercraft, generators and lawn equipment.

[gradyhappyg]

After that junky Civic I bought I didn't want one anywho. Can't just roll a jet onto the side of the road when it conks out on ya even in FSX.

[Rudyjo]

They also manufacture cars, motorcycles, ATVs, watercraft, generators and lawn equipment.

Everybody has that stuff, I wanted to be the first on the block to have a Honda Jet in the driveway.

[Daveroo]

WELL I also feel that this could hurt them in the long run..with flight simulators becoming a viable way to teach flying,they may just lose a few customers due to the fact they wont have a plane to fly of the one they wish to own.
i have a family friend who is learning to fly helicopters,he had no fixed wing time at all,never even seen a flight simulator like FSX,he was given a walk around of a robinson R22,then taken into the "classroom"..two days later,they had him on a FSX machine flying the stock R22,regular type helicopter controls , i looked the brand up and the cyclic alone is over a grand,anyway..he spent a week on the flight sim and has now gone into flying the real one..and is only a few hours from his ticket.

[rpetty]

Hopefully Boeing doesn't send out an advisory or I'll have to trash my tubeliners. Really, how does Carenado or PMDG do It? IMHO if its payware aircraft under development then drop the associated company an email stating your interest in their aircraft. Who knows maybe they would help with some form of support. However, if its freeware then its artistic expression in digital 3D.

[Jafo]

If push came to shove about the only recourse Honda would have would be with their logo/trademark....
....unless they could establish that the modeller had access to/made use of 'blue prints' [for want of a better term] produced BY Honda and used in the development/design/construction of the craft.

Simple replication of an existing form would generally be protected under the auspices of 'fair use'.

Once upon a time Windows Customizing sites were contacted by Apple with a cease and desist re the adaption and release of the OSX GUI for Windows [via Windowblinds]. Apple was/has been pretty much the ONLY entity to spit a dummy re GUI Customizing in the decade or 2 that it's been happening.

Even then it was deemed indefensible if Apple did not universally request the removal from all sites which hosted the work/s.

The issue re Copyright and 'fair use' and/or 'fan art' has always been wobbly at best.

However...

It's quite hypocritical to be uptight re Honda wanting to protect their IP whilst people in the Sim community get [rightly] upset when their models or paints are 'stolen' by others ...;)

[Flyboy208]

I think it's ugly ... they love the "OTWEM" Over the wing engine mounts that they engineered, looks weird to me ! Mike:running:

[euroastar350]

I would have to be careful with Bell helicopter as they are owned by the same parent corporation that owns Cessna and we all know Cessna won't allow 3D redentions of their aircraft without a royalty to be paid to them. Not sure if this will apply to freeware Cessna aircraft, but we can never be too careful these days:dizzy:

[b52bob]

There is a hondajet for fs9 that has been ported to on simviation. Don't know if it's still there or removed but I have it.

Take that Honda.

But no longer use fs9 port overs.

Bob

[guzzi]

There is a hondajet for fs9 that has been ported to on simviation. Don't know if it's still there or removed but I have it.

Take that Honda.

But no longer use fs9 port overs.

Bob

Hama's Hondajet - been around for years - and I believe he's Japanese - so he better watch out, might have the Honda heavies calling aroiund! Never understood companies that do this - believe Gulfstream is another - bad PR and anal reteniveness at its best.

[Bjoern]

Hopefully Boeing doesn't send out an advisory or I'll have to trash my tubeliners. Really, how does Carenado or PMDG do It?

PMDG has an agreement with Boeing. They deliver the most accurate MSFS rendition possible while Boeing provides enough information to get them there.


Boeing's out of production models are, to my knowledge, not subject to any restrictions.

[stiz]

One word. . ."Stupid".

it is stupid, but you cant exactly blame them as such. If they didnt enforce the copyright stuff, other, real world, companies would prolly get away with using their stuff with the whole "you didnt enforce it with them, why are we different?". So their just protecting their stuff. Doesnt mean i like it, but hey ho!


Really, how does Carenado or PMDG do It? IMHO if its payware aircraft under development then drop the associated company an email stating your interest in their aircraft. Who knows maybe they would help with some form of support.

As Bjorn said, PMDG has an agreement with Boeing. Carenado on the other hand .. well they have the advantage of living in a part of the world that doesnt really bother with such stuff :monkies:

[ce_zeta]

Me too. I was just about to put an order in for one. I had already withdrawn my one million dollar deposit. Oh well, I'll have to put the money back in in bank and get 1/4 percent interest on it.
hahaha....Yeap, Sadly, but my Citation Mustang should wait for another replacement. :biggrin-new:

Seriously, as airattackimages said,Honda makes a lot of machines, vehicles....

As Flightsimmer, Honda attacked my hobby....In response, I wont buy his products.
we need to act with Responsibility. Each action have a reaction.

Of course, the point here is....Its the Hondajet project of Flightgear an open source or freeware project? or is a commercial project?


If it's a commercial project...Dude, Will you be making money with my effort? You must pay me royalties!
If it's a Freeware project....Without any monetary profit for the developer...What is the problem? This project is a free advertising! Its good for the company.

[Dutcheeseblend]

Never understood why a company would do something like prohibiting representations of their products. Especially with P3D (as a training software!!) it could be even valuable for an aircraft company, to have more possibilities for training on their aircraft! But that's just the way I see it.

Remember: a visual model is NEVER the same like a real one. Always differences, approximations, and so on.

I'd say addons of aircraft of a particular company is just PR for that company.

[SkippyBing]

Never understood why a company would do something like prohibiting representations of their products. Especially with P3D (as a training software!!) it could be even valuable for an aircraft company, to have more possibilities for training on their aircraft! But that's just the way I see it.

Actually with P3D as a training tool it may be more important for aircraft companies to control their intellectual property, i.e. if it's going to be used for training it better be as close to 100% accurate as possible or people could learn dangerous i.e. fatal, habits. The only way you can really get that level of accuracy is with the cooperation of the manufacturer and if you don't ask for it first why should they trust you? Similarly if Honda have no control over the add-on they can't stop an unfavourable representation being put out there which could adversely affect their aircraft's sales.

The fact is any other company wanting to base a product on the Honda Jet or any other real world thing would have to pay a licence fee, e.g. toy companies. Unless you're saying flight sim add ons shouldn't count because they're not tangible, but then that's a version of one of the arguments put forward in defence of software piracy.

[ryanbatc]

Free advertising... They should be paying developers to make virtual renditions of their products...

[Brian_Gladden]

Free advertising... They should be paying developers to make virtual renditions of their products...


My old FS9 Air Tractor 802's came a from a request from an Air Tractor Salesman wanting something he could use to show customers...

[Sundog]

You have to understand, these companies have teams of lawyers working for them and they need something to do. That's partly how this happens. You also have to consider that corporations usually aren't known for good decision making, especially as far as public relations are concerned. Of course, for the big aerospace companies, they probably don't care since we aren't buying their products anyway. However, for Honda, this could backfire in a big way due to all of their consumer products that we can afford. I would also note that it also depends on if you are making freeware or payware and whether or not you're using their logo without permission. I give plenty of Kudos to Boeing for their cooperation with PMDG. IIRC, Cessna has also had a working relationship with Eaglesoft, but I'm not sure.

[paiken]

Honda has this thing about using their name...Back in the early '90's there was a local automotive repair shop who called themselves "Hondamotive", since they specialized in repairing Honda's. They were threatened by Honda attorneys over the use of 'Honda' in their company name. The owners of the shop dropped the 'd' from the name and inserted a '*', becoming "Hon*Amotive" and made the lawyers happy. The shop is still there, repairing Honda's and other imports.

[n4gix]

It's a big enough "business" that there are several legal firms who's specialty is sniffing out potential trademark and/or copyright infringements, then contacting the "injured party" with an offer to handle the matter for a fee.

There are many legal firms here in the U.S. who's entire practice is centered around a single issue, such as "Mesothelioma", "Asbestos" and so forth. Their advertising is seen on national television frequently. Obviously this is a very lucrative business who's only "winners" are the legal firms.

As for the case of Textron, their license terms are quite hideous, involving a fixed $ amount every quarter, plus a percentage of sales, and most recently a requirement that the licensee purchase a $1 million liability policy annually. Be it noted that this liability insurance is to protect Textron from litigation, but not the licensee... :pop4:

Textron = :a1089:
Licensee = :dizzy:

[falcon409]

. . . . . . .However, for Honda, this could backfire in a big way due to all of their consumer products that we can afford. . . . . . . .
I honestly don't think they care. We are an insignificant bug on the wall to them. I seriously doubt if our inability to model their aircraft (one as far as I know) and the fall-out from that within this hobby will have any effect at all on them. If, as consumers, we banded together and made a public outcry about how Honda is trying to "crush" the little people and had media coverage and print and electronic coverage. . .it might raise some eyebrows. . ."might". However we won't, it'll be another aircraft manufacturer we can't do a model for. . .and we'll move on to the next. Personally, I have my HondaJet and will continue to fly it til the "virtual wheels" fall off.