Navy Corsair IIs: dirty but deadly!

[Navy Chief]

Dimitri Vrettos posted this picture on Facebook. I wanted to post it here to illustrate what I have mentioned before; that Navy aircraft are often quite dirty. The tactical gray paint is not easy to clean. Combine that, along with hectic flight ops, and you end up with this......

5756

[joe bob]

I don't know how it is these days but in the 80s I saw Navy jets at airshows, it was obvious that someone had gone down a row of screws/fasteners with a spray can. That was the extent of preparation for the event, If you looked at the F-15 sitting beside it it had probably been totally repainted a few days before. I always thought that the Navy jets looked more "tactical" in their weathered finish.

Speaking of the tactical paint jobs, that same airshow might have a gloss grey ADC F-106 or F-4 that had been painted three years before and still looked pristine. The gloss paint was so much more durable and easy to clean.

There was a witch hunt at the time, looking for 600 dollar screw drivers to show govt waste when the real waste was the mentality that justified the Wing commanders aircraft completely repainted once a month and other such lifer attitudes.

[Navy Chief]

I don't know how it is these days but in the 80s I saw Navy jets at airshows, it was obvious that someone had gone down a row of screws/fasteners with a spray can. That was the extent of preparation for the event, If you looked at the F-15 sitting beside it it had probably been totally repainted a few days before. I always thought that the Navy jets looked more "tactical" in their weathered finish.

Speaking of the tactical paint jobs, that same airshow might have a gloss grey ADC F-106 or F-4 that had been painted three years before and still looked pristine. The gloss paint was so much more durable and easy to clean.

There was a witch hunt at the time, looking for 600 dollar screw drivers to show govt waste when the real waste was the mentality that justified the Wing commanders aircraft completely repainted once a month and other such lifer attitudes.

All true. And Air Force aircraft did not have the salt spray/water exposure to deal with; plus I suspect their budget was larger. NC

[Daveroo]

natural camouflage

[Navy Chief]

natural camouflage


I should have tried using that term as a excuse for not washing an aircraft as a young airman, but I doubt the Maint. Chief would've bought it....NC

[C2Aaircrew]

NC, I don't remember the A-6's, F-14's, COD's, S-3's, etc.. looking any better. For as important as corrosion control is, it seemed like those not wanted in any other maintenance shop were the ones in C.C., and most times the attitudes showed. Dirty job, Q.A. breathing down your neck because Maintenance Control is breathing down theirs, because D.O. is breathing down theirs, etc.. and on up, because they want the A/C for flight ops. Not really looked at as necessary or periodic maintenance (even though NATOPS, NAMP and PMS says differently). Trying to find, remove, treat corrosion and paint at night with a red flashlight is a P.I.A. It's a wonder the A/C come out even close to the same color. (Spent one deployment as C.C. LPO). By the time we got the aircraft nice and clean and even got the hangar queens fixed and gussied up it was time for deployment. A lot easier to do everything in a nice big hanger ashore.


Posted by joe bob: ...it was obvious that someone had gone down a row of screws/fasteners with a spray can. ... You could assign two airmen to this duty and keep each one busy for a 12 hour shift 7 days a weeks just to keep the screws, Dzus, Camloc fasteners and rivets on panels painted.

As for natural camouflage, I seriously doubt any of my Maint. or Line Chiefs would have bought that one either.

Take care,

C2

[TARPSBird]

I'm sure some of you Navy/Marine airdales who did corrosion control remember the preservative Procotone, looked like molasses and smelled like crayons and you brushed it on over panel edges, dzus fasteners, etc. When you didn't have time for surface prep for painting just dab on some Procotone. Made a plane look crappy real quick.

[Navy Chief]

NC, I don't remember the A-6's, F-14's, COD's, S-3's, etc.. looking any better. For as important as corrosion control is, it seemed like those not wanted in any other maintenance shop were the ones in C.C., and most times the attitudes showed. Dirty job, Q.A. breathing down your neck because Maintenance Control is breathing down theirs, because D.O. is breathing down theirs, etc.. and on up, because they want the A/C for flight ops. Not really looked at as necessary or periodic maintenance (even though NATOPS, NAMP and PMS says differently). Trying to find, remove, treat corrosion and paint at night with a red flashlight is a P.I.A. It's a wonder the A/C come out even close to the same color. (Spent one deployment as C.C. LPO). By the time we got the aircraft nice and clean and even got the hangar queens fixed and gussied up it was time for deployment. A lot easier to do everything in a nice big hanger ashore.

You could assign two airmen to this duty and keep each one busy for a 12 hour shift 7 days a weeks just to keep the screws, Dzus, Camloc fasteners and rivets on panels painted.

As for natural camouflage, I seriously doubt any of my Maint. or Line Chiefs would have bought that one either.

Take care,

C2

You are correct about the personnel in the CC work center often times being of low caliber. The supervisors therefore had quite a challenge, because they wanted to get promoted, yet had to deal with (in SOME cases, not always of course) low performers. There are always those who excel, but when "skates", or "no loads" are assigned to your work center, it attracts unwanted attention.

I too, remember the corrosion prevention chemicals they used. I also recall one solvent we used to REMOVE that compound from aircond ducting, which was MethylEthylKetone. It was the only solvent that would literally "melt" that stuff off, but the fumes were not exactly healthy to breathe. This was back when OSHA safety was not exactly adhered to. I am still fearful of the effects that will eventually have on my health. But the only other way to remove it was sanding it off with (can't remember what the stuff was called), but it didn't work too good. The main goal was to make the ducting look good, and remove any corroded clamps, etc... SO much work went into corrosion prevention. We spent more energy on that, then repairing systems, I think. That is one aspect of aircraft maintenance I do NOT miss. NC

[b52bob]

I remember going to an air show at Miramar. I was sitting inside a pristine Navy hello and I asked a crewman about the dirty filthy Marine chopper next to ours. I asked why the Marine aircraft were always so dirty. He said "go ask them". I replied "no thanks, I won't take that chance".

[Navy Chief]

I remember going to an air show at Miramar. I was sitting inside a pristine Navy hello and I asked a crewman about the dirty filthy Marine chopper next to ours. I asked why the Marine aircraft were always so dirty. He said "go ask them". I replied "no thanks, I won't take that chance".

Probably a wise decision! :encouragement:

[Dev One]

My guess it that they have been 'serviced' with PX-24 or similar (Waxoyl or Dinitrol) & therefore easily collect dirt that attaches to the wax. At least it wards off corrosion which in turn saves fatigue cracks etc.
Keith

[PRB]

Never worked in the CC shop, but we (IWT shop) spent a lot of time on "CC'ing" our areas of responsibility: av bays, radomes (the one in front and the one underneath) cockpit. Remember 40 day inspections? We would sometimes remove all the boxes from the av bay, sand, clean, and re-paint with that green zinc chromate paint, and re-install boxes. In the cockpit we would remove all "our" stuff, remove knobs, remove face plate, clean, repaint, re-assemble, and screw back in the cockpit. Dang, fun times!

[Navy Chief]

Oh yes, I remember "40" day inspections all too well. There was a 1st Class PO in Quality Assurance who was desperately trying to make Chief, so he came up with the idea of removing each aircraft's ejection seat when the aircraft came due on a 40 Day Inspection - EVERY 40 Day Inspection! He created a special MRC card for it. Well, you can imagine the shop I worked in (the AME - egress (ejection system) shop) was none too thrilled about that. This crap went on for a couple months. Oh yeah, our seats were clean!!! But when the Airwing found out what was happening, they put a stop to that practice quick! So much work. In addition to that, we had to pull the armor plates from where the pilot rested his feet. I recall vividly that each of those plates held 22 screws. If you didn't hand start EVERY screw before tightening them all down, the plate would warp to one side, and you wouldn't get ANY of them started. In addition, I started replacing all 44 screws on every inspection, because the pilots boots (and all the mechs who got in the cockpit) would transfer salt residue to the screws, and then we would have a helluva time removing them. Oh, I do NOT miss that stuff! NC

[PRB]

Even as an avionics guy, I can see how it might be counter productive to remove and replace an ejection seat on some interval that didn't make sense. After all, when you get hands and tools in there, you introduce the possibility of damage. But, as an avionics guy, it did make sense to remove those boxes and clean up around there periodically. As in any organization made of people, opinions will vary. When I was still a young lad in the 1980s in VA-94, the greatest Attack Squadron Ever, BTW, the bitching and moaning about pulling all those boxes in a 40-day was constant “background noise”. We didn't do it on every 40-day, or even on every phase inspection. But our planes were well maintained, our stuff worked, and we really did take pride in the cleanliness of our cockpit instruments and gauges. A couple years ago I climbed into an A-7E at a museum someplace, and the dirt and grime was appalling and sad. I think about that every time I see SOH members here complain and whine about VC cockpits “not dirty enough” for their liking. So, just a word of wisdom, for what it's worth. If you see these planes in museums with dirty grungy corroded cockpits, keep in mind that they didn't look that way when they were in service.

[Navy Chief]

One very good argument against pulling ejection seats too frequently, was the chance for complacency during the arm/dearm procedure. Yes, MRC cards were used, but the chance to screw up was ever present. The human factor. NC

[phrog_phixer]

NC, if you thought MEK was good for removing Grade 1 and 4 (you were supposed to be using PD680...lol), you should've seen what it did to a tile floor I was tasked with stripping and waxing back in the day....

[Navy Chief]

NC, if you thought MEK was good for removing Grade 1 and 4 (you were supposed to be using PD680...lol), you should've seen what it did to a tile floor I was tasked with stripping and waxing back in the day....

PD680...wow, I haven't heard that reference since I retired in 97! MEK is some powerful stuff, to be sure. NC

[phrog_phixer]

Yep...I had a good early lesson in HAZCOM...the MEK fused the tiles, but the deck sure looked sharp after dried and waxed...btw I retired in 97 too...AD1(AW)

[Flyboy208]

They look well overdo for a 14 Day ! Mike :jump:

[C2Aaircrew]

PD680, haven't heard that name in a while. Played your cards right and kept tight control and you had 5 gallons cans of liquid gold two to three months into deployment. (Always was suspicious of any 1st or above walking around wearing a white helmet w/green cross, carrying a clipboard and an empty coffee cup).

MEK, aah, the maintenance persons best friend when you want something cleaned fast and I do mean fast. Weren't careful and it would clean right through to bare metal. By the way Doc said the effects of MEK fumes should start wearing off any time now.

Anyone bucking for Chief has to have the obligatory stint in QA. We had an AO1, we would find this guy out inspecting aircraft and nobody had called QA. He would stand there tell me to my face that I had called him, then proceeded to show me the primered spots that had not been painted, wait for it... because the paint was still being mixed. After doing this a couple of times to C.C. the QA officer didn't take the complaints seriously until he tried doing it to the Airframes shop.

Seems like quite a few retired in '97. I did, AMCS (AW), Aircrew.

[Navy Chief]

Never made it to AMCS because they wanted me to work in QA & Maint. Control. I refused to do either one. My last four years were spent as Line CPO for VQ-1. Normally the Line CPO job is considered an "entry level" position for CPOs, but I loved the job, and was good at it. 99 percent of the time, when a sailor reports to a squadron, he or she will get assigned to the Line Div. And it is not uncommon for them to get into trouble, sometime during their time in the "shack". Not so with my division. In the four years I ran the division, there was only one sailor who went to Capt's Mast (got caught taking multiple fuel samples from the same location on a EP-3). Add to that, I had the best LPO a Chief could hope for. I still stay in touch with him. VQ-1 was the first non-tailhook squadron I'd ever been in, and did not feel confident working in QA or Maint. Control. The Senior and Master Chief's all told me, "You'll never make E8 if you don't work in those areas." My reply was, "Yeah, so what?" I did the best I could as a E7. I was always either the top E7, or in the top 3, and was content with that. Pete

[joe bob]

I was actually in Corrosion Control back in my AF days. My test scores were great but for some idiotic reason I no longer remember I put CC as one of my choices.
It was very depressing. It may as well just be called the paint barn because that was almost exclusively what we did. I already mentioned totally repainting the Wing COs plane once a month (to the point it was grossly overweight and a real dog) but the job was filled with the nonsense that lifers dream up*.

One particular incident comes to mind. There was a bombing competition announced for the Ninth AF, the rules of which were that 4 randomly chosen pilots from each wing would take off from their base fly to a bombing range and hit a target and return to their base, never having stopped anywhere going there or back. ie the only time they would be seen is as they flashed by at low level doing 450+ knots
This of course sets the lifer mentality snowball rolling. Well they don't know which of the 4 squadrons will be randomly chosen so we better repaint 4 from each. and of course they will have to have spares so we touched up an additional 4 per squadron. That's 32 jets if you are keeping score so that 4 could flash by a bombing range and the blur looks good. Stuff like that is why I say the fraud waste and abuse hunts for 600 dollar screw drivers were looking up the wrong tree. Waste is engrained in the mentality of the military.

While such stuff is not unique to CC it did burn me up that there was little doubt it was taking years off my life due to all the chemicals. We practically took a bath in MEK among other stuff. Two years ago I looked up my buddy Ed from back in the day,turns out two weeks after I had surgery to remove cancer, he died from the same disease.


* in my book not all career men are lifers. Lifer is a state of mind, "ate up" as we used to say. You may be out working on a jet and be glad to have an experience career guy with you but the lifers would be off supervising painting the office garbage cans camouflage grey so they look really squared away. (probably getting an atta boy in the process while others pulled their load)

[phrog_phixer]

Still waiting for the letter/call/email from the VA:

"If you were exposed to ____________ (fill in the blank) between the years of _______ (fill in the blank) and _______ (fill in the blank), please report immediately to your nearest Armed Forces or Veterans Administration medical facility :p87:!" I used to wear some amount of gas turbine lube oil constantly (yes I even remember the milspec), not to mention all the other chemicals we were exposed to! Just what was in that aircraft cleaning compound again?

[Navy Chief]

Yep, I choose NOT to worry about all the stuff I was exposed to. Am powerless to do anything about it now anyway.

I am, however, glad to be moving up to Pensacola. The healthcare for military retirees up there is excellent; leastwise before IT gets changed as well. 'Nuff said. Pete