Lockheed L-18 Project

[Milton Shupe]

What is this? A windshield post? It protrudes on some aircraft (maybe all).

Also note that it exists on L-18's that have the rectangular side windows, but not on those with a rounder side window rear edge.

I have seen C-60A's both ways.

So is this an early vs late model difference?

EDIT: Changed name of thread as a project thread.

[PeteHam]

Hi Milton,

My initial thought is it's a windshield wiper, but without clearer pics it's hard to say.

Pete.

[lemonadedrinker]

Hi Milton,

I have found some very clear pics of a C-56(?) in the Castle Air Museum, Atwater, Ca one of which is this one

4491

and it seems to show it's something to do with helping to clear the rain away from the side windows (?). The original picture in their catalogue is much larger, but too big for here I think.

www.skytamer.com/2.6.5.6.htm‎ (http://www.skytamer.com/2.6.5.6.htm‎)

Andy.

1936 Lockheed Electra 12A Junior - Fly/In Cruise/

this is the title of a youtube video showing an Electra coming in to land and it shows the very different windscreen layout, 4 in this case, with the other aircraft from the air museum having a 6 section windscreen. Perhaps it's something to do with that.

A

[Dynasaur]

Hi- don't know if this helps but here is close-up of a pic I took of the Hudson here in Australia - looks like a wind deflector.

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[Dev One]

This months Aeroplane magazine (April 2014) has some pictures of the Hudson & show them as deflectors, but with the outboard edges unsupported.
Now how that relates to a L18.....
Keith

[Milton Shupe]

Great shots guys. Yes, seems to be some kind of deflector maybe due to lack of good deicer technology in those early days as aircraft could now cruise above 10-12K feet and operate over mountainous regions over ranges.

I have checked the C-56-7-9, and C-60's and they all had it available initially it seems.

I also could not find an explanation of the rounder rear side windows, and why they do not have this feature or the double windshield posts. Still trying to sort it all out.

I appreciate your help in sorting this out.

[Maarten -]

Hi- don't know if this helps but here is close-up of a pic I took of the Hudson here in Australia - looks like a wind deflector.

Now I recognise. Dutch Dakota Association's first DC-3C PH-DDA (which tragically crashed in September 1996 with all on board perished) has a similar wind deflector on the strut separating the solid part of the left-hand wind screen from the direct vision part.

Cheers,
Maarten

[srgalahad]

Dynasaur, it does appear so. However I think there were many changes as the L-18 came through the line.

I found a reference in the Lodestar maintenance Manual to a "Side Panel" (the sliding side glass), the "front fixed panel' ( the two center panels) and "Adjustable Front Panel". The glass replacement instructions jive with the interior cockpit photo Milton's been working from so I think that part has been resolved. With this panel being adjustable it would make sense for the large ridge pointed out by Milton is a wind deflector to force air out and away from the 'corner' windows.

NOW there's another quandry... WHY would they develop a window that appears to be unlockable at the bottom and hinged at the top-center on a "ball-joint hinge". It appears to hinge at top, pivot inward at the bottom and then ( because of the ball-joint) be rotatable in-and-up or in and turned to orient parallel with the fore/aft axis of the aircraft.
Someone have an ice-scraper?

Milton, I've sent you a PM with some more info.

[lemonadedrinker]

Hi,
found a couple more showing different wind451445154513
screen set-ups

Andy.

[Sundog]

I wasn't able to find anything on it, but it was the first time I've seen the Howard 250 development of it, what a cool plane!

Based on that bar's proximity to the windshield wiper, I was wondering if it sort of acted like a fence on the windshield to prevent anti-icing fluid from just being swept away in the slipstream? If the wiper blade was up (retracted) and fluid was sprayed, it looks like that bar/fence would force the fluid up into the wiper to be used to de-ice the windshield, but that's a complete guess on my part.

[srgalahad]

if one looks long enough...

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l523/cjasonbarnett/Lockheed%20Lodestar/CIMG7580.jpg

http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=44135#p443540 (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/cjasonbarnett/media/Lockheed%20Lodestar/CIMG7580.jpg.html)

[lemonadedrinker]

Hi,
I've put a bit more contrast into one picture and it seems to show a glass section outside to act as a deflector, perhaps?

4529

Andy.

[mrogers]

Hi Milton,

what you're seeing are the frames for small glass panels that acted as deflectors. Most L-18 Lodestars had these and also the Hudson bombers did too.
The rounded side windows and windscreens without the posts in them were a modification to the L-18s in the 1950's and were Howard conversions I would think.

[Motormouse]

Think between everybody, you've got your answer, it's the rain deflector for the dv (direct vision) window.Back in the day when windscreen heating and wipers weren't as effective as they are nowadays, crew could open dv window in-flight, usually on final approach for a bettter view, the approach being flown in sideslip to keep the draft down.TtfnPete

[Maarten -]

Think between everybody, you've got your answer, it's the rain deflector for the dv (direct vision) window.Back in the day when windscreen heating and wipers weren't as effective as they are nowadays, crew could open dv window in-flight, usually on final approach for a bettter view, the approach being flown in sideslip to keep the draft down.TtfnPete

Exactly. :)

[Milton Shupe]

Thank you all for the discussion and pictures on this topic; very helpful. :-)

And, for the next question to show my ignorance: what are these objects along each side of the fuselage? They appear to be air vents.

And, does anyone have better detail for modeling purposes?

[Milton Shupe]

Can anyone identify this airline?

[Milton Shupe]

There is always at least one picture that provides motivation. In this case, one for the military variant, one for a civilian variant.

[Willy]

Can anyone identify this airline?

The tail number is Swedish. Swedair?

[Milton Shupe]

The tail number is Swedish. Swedair? Sounds reasonable but wanted confirmation

[Maarten -]

Thank you all for the discussion and pictures on this topic; very helpful. :-)

And, for the next question to show my ignorance: what are these objects along each side of the fuselage? They appear to be air vents.

And, does anyone have better detail for modeling purposes?
Hi Milton,

According to the Maintenance Instructions for Lockheed Lodestar Model 18, these objects are 'cabin air exhaust units'. (see attachment)

Cheers,
Maarten

[Milton Shupe]

Hi Milton,

According to the Maintenance Instructions for Lockheed Lodestar Model 18, these objects are 'cabin air exhaust units'. (see attachment)

Cheers,
Maarten

Ahhh, excelenté

[Milton Shupe]

Can you identify which engine is which from these pictures and the engine availability list?

Cowlings may help as well.

[Milton Shupe]

Can someone identify specifically the model of this L-18 based variant?

[Maarten -]

Hi Milton,

That is an early production PV-1 Ventura. :)

Cheers,
Maarten

[PeteHam]

Can anyone identify this airline?


Lockheed 18-56 Lodestar SE-BZE (cn 18-2593) Swedair at Stockholm - Arlanda (ARN / ESSA) March 1968

SE-BZE (cn 18-2593) Built as USAAF C-60A 43-16433. Later G-AGIJ, Norwegian A.F and OH-VKP. Stored at Arlanda after retirement by Swedair. Now preserved at the Arlanda Flygsamlingar.

[Milton Shupe]

Hi Milton,

That is an early production PV-1 Ventura. :)

Cheers,
Maarten

Thank you Maarten; you got the Gold Star :-)

[Milton Shupe]

Lockheed 18-56 Lodestar SE-BZE (cn 18-2593) Swedair at Stockholm - Arlanda (ARN / ESSA) March 1968

SE-BZE (cn 18-2593) Built as USAAF C-60A 43-16433. Later G-AGIJ, Norwegian A.F and OH-VKP. Stored at Arlanda after retirement by Swedair. Now preserved at the Arlanda Flygsamlingar.

Great research Pete; good info to have. Thanks :-) :applause:

[Wings of Gold]

That color photo of NC34217 is beautiful!! Got to have one of these after the models available (new personal transportation). Bill

[Milton Shupe]

That color photo of NC34217 is beautiful!! Got to have one of these after the models available (new personal transportation). Bill

I agree Bill; currently my Desktop background :-)

[Milton Shupe]

Well, after several days of pushing vertices around, I think I finally have the fuselage and windshield shape as they should be. :jump:

Today I have invested all my time in the 68 parts that make up the left engine and gear with primary focus on the P&W Twin Wasp cowling and bezel shape, flaps size, air scoop, exhaust cover and oil cooler intake. (The Wright cowlings will come soon.)

With that done, I can now replace the starboard engine, a job in itself with so many animations to deal with. Then it will be time to cut in some fuselage side windows and doors. :wiggle:

[t.creed]

looking very "sweet" already..!! another hand flyer, after instructions of course ..!! rgds t creed

[Milton Shupe]

looking very "sweet" already..!! another hand flyer, after instructions of course ..!! rgds t creed

Thank you; it has come a long way in the last 2 weeks. I should get the exterior model done and mapped for textures in another 2 weeks. Then we go inside. :running:

[Bill Kestell]

Nice, Milton, very, very nice indeed! Thanks!

[Maarten -]

Milton, Sir,

She looks awesome already!:applause::applause::applause: I feel some inspiration coming up for a couple of repaints (KLM West Indies and KNIL-ML) for the Wright Cyclone version.

Cheers,
Maarten

[tgibson]

Hi,

Looking great, Milton! I know that National Air Lines fans will be happy to hear this, since National was the only major US airline not to fly DC-3's, and instead used Lodestars until they got the Convairs (I think the Lodestars lasted well into the 1950's).

http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac3/Airline/National%20Ailines%20Lodestar%20II.html

Lodestar video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJk3vhf82hw

Thanks,

[Milton Shupe]

Hi,

Looking great, Milton! I know that National Air Lines fans will be happy to hear this, since National was the only major US airline not to fly DC-3's, and instead used Lodestars until they got the Convairs (I think the Lodestars lasted well into the 1950's).

http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac3/Airline/National%20Ailines%20Lodestar%20II.html

Lodestar video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJk3vhf82hw

Thanks,

Hello Tom :-) Great to hear from you.

I really want to do a nice job for all the civilian airlines around the world just waiting to be painted. I have been collecting samples of all of them.

Thank you for the link; will pursue and enjoy.

Doing due diligence at the moment on gear bays having just completed all the general engine and prop work. Taking my time trying to do proper justice to this Lockheed icon. :-)

EDIT: Wow! Great video Tom. And thanks for that picture to add to my collection. :-)

[Milton Shupe]

I changed the name of this thread to make it more a project thread.

[Blackbird686]

Looks really good so far, Milton. There has been a lineage of twin engine tail draggers that you have produced over the years... All of which I have in my virtual skies. The Howard, Beech D-18, AT-11, the Harpoon, and the Grizzly. All of which are flown regularly, from here to there....

Looking forward to seeing the progress on the L-18.

Regards -- BB686

[txnetcop]

Milton you are still the master of AWESOME free builds...and you have a knack of knowing just what is needed! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAWWWWWWWWWWWWW!
Ted

[Milton Shupe]

Looks really good so far, Milton. There has been a lineage of twin engine tail draggers that you have produced over the years... All of which I have in my virtual skies. The Howard, Beech D-18, AT-11, the Harpoon, and the Grizzly. All of which are flown regularly, from here to there....

Looking forward to seeing the progress on the L-18.

Regards -- BB686

What? No Aero Commanders or A26B/C??? LOL Thanks :-)

[Milton Shupe]

Milton you are still the master of AWESOME free builds...and you have a knack of knowing just what is needed! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAWWWWWWWWWWWWW!
Ted

Thanks Ted; I agree; I'm having too much fun! :-) The civilian Lodestar just needs to get done, along with the C-56/57/59/60A. :-)

Now if I can keep these computer fans going long enuf to survive this build ...

[Maarten -]

Let's add some nice views and music to this great project.

Video one: starting up the 1,200 hp Wright Cyclone GR1820-G102A or GR1820-G202A or R-1820-87 engines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yOIE3D_avA

Video two: The great shiny bird in her element.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM9d62D2JzQ

Video three: travelling with the C-60A (in formation with another Lodestar)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC3vUHkCo7Q

((whispering) What do you think of that sound, Nigel? ;) )

Cheers,
Maarten

[Blackbird686]

What? No Aero Commanders or A26B/C??? LOL Thanks :-)

Those aren't tail draggers.....:a1310: LOL!

[Milton Shupe]

Great progress today in every area; starting to shape up nicely. :jump:

[Hurricane91]

She's gorgeous Milton.

[Milton Shupe]

Thank you all for the comments; appreciated.

Just did a test in FS9 around the circuit and all seems well.

Now back to work to add some details to the exterior model. :-)

[TuFun]

Can't wait to see Nigel's magic artwork on this! Beautiful model Milton!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM9d62D2JzQ

[SPman]

A NZ Fieldair crop dusting Lodestar would look real good........also RNZAF and, I think the National Airline NAC flew some Lodestars for a while after the war. Lots of possibilities......
Keep up the excellent work Milt.

[NathanT28]

Will it be FSX too?? I want to fly this plane in FSX

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[Maarten -]

It's not very likely this Lodestar will fly again. I took this photo at the MOTAT, Auckland, New Zealand, on 19 January 2012. Other aircraft outside at the MOTAT are a Lockheed PV-1 Ventura (in the background), a Short Sunderland (tail turret visible over the Lodestar) , a Short Solent, and a Douglas C-47. The aircraft in the exhibition hall look much healthier.

Cheers,
Maarten

[Maarten -]

Thank you all for the comments; appreciated.

Just did a test in FS9 around the circuit and all seem well.

Now back to work to add some details to the exterior model. :-)

Sweet!!! :applause::applause::applause:

[Milton Shupe]

A NZ Fieldair crop dusting Lodestar would look real good........also RNZAF and, I think the National Airline NAC flew some Lodestars for a while after the war. Lots of possibilities......
Keep up the excellent work Milt.

They all can fly again ... virtually, with a little help from my SOH friends. :-)


Will it be FSX too?? I want to fly this plane in FSX

4640

I will provide an FSX portover version as I always do. The gmax source will be available for a native conversion as always. Thank you :-)


It's not very likely this Lodestar will fly again. I took this photo at the MOTAT, Auckland, New Zealand, on 19 January 2012. Other aircraft outside at the MOTAT are a Lockheed PV-1 Ventura (in the background), a Short Sunderland (tail turret visible over the Lodestar) , a Short Solent, and a Douglas C-47. The aircraft in the exhibition hall look much healthier.

Cheers,
Maarten

There are so many painting possibilities around the world; why would we not take advantage of this opportunity to please the FS community :-)



Can't wait to see Nigel's magic artwork on this! Beautiful model Milton!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM9d62D2JzQ



TuFun, Nigel is up to his eyeballs in current projects so we may have to ask for talented artists to step up here and also provide a paint kit. We shall see how the Republic XP47J/H VC textures come along, and the Harpoon wrap up over the next 6 weeks. I may have mapping available for the Lodestar exterior sooner than expected, maybe 10 days. FM only needs light tweaks but lots to do inside yet. I hope to have this modeling/mapping/FM wrapped up within 4 weeks for the commercial and military sides for P&W and Wright cowled versions.

[Milton Shupe]

I have a number of interior cabin pictures for commercial and executive class Lodestars but only 2 that seem to be era-correct (1940's-early 50's). I am looking for authentic airline classic interior shots that properly represent early users. Also looking for better cockpit pictures to help with authentic representation.

I also really need some cabin pics of the C-56/57/59/60A and R50 Navy series to help with proper design for either troop or staff transport series.

If anyone has access to these things, sharing them would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Milton Shupe]

Today's work has focused on antennae, nacelle/gear wind smoothing and taxi lights. I have all the primary use antennae but 2 covered for inventory to draw from for variants now.

[Blackbird686]

HA! You stole the tires off of TuFun's Howard 500! Quick you lot... get the bloody Grizzly in the hangar before he sees it! LOL

But Seriously... She's really shaping up nicely Milton. Another exceptional beauty and, as always... I'm eager to fly her.

BB686

[tgibson]

Hi,

Here's some National Airlines interiors from the 1940's:

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy125/CalClassic/lodestar_int1.jpg (http://s784.photobucket.com/user/CalClassic/media/lodestar_int1.jpg.html)

Love the table, complete with lamp, in the first shot. There is a 2 place sofa beyond it.



Hope this helps,

[Milton Shupe]

Wow! Thank you TGibson; that is very helpful. :-)

[SPman]

It's not very likely this Lodestar will fly again. I took this photo at the MOTAT, Auckland, New Zealand, on 19 January 2012. Other aircraft outside at the MOTAT are a Lockheed PV-1 Ventura (in the background), a Short Sunderland (tail turret visible over the Lodestar) , a Short Solent, and a Douglas C-47. The aircraft in the exhibition hall look much healthier.

Cheers,
Maarten

That Lodestar (ZK BVE) ended it's days as a topdressing plane spreading superphosphate then had a belly landing in 1969 which ended it's career.. Super gets in everywhere and, after 40 yrs, is quite corrosive, so this one is undergoing a lot of remedial work to get her shipshape again.
The PV1 is actually an RB 34 Lexington - like a Ventura Mk1 with the glass nose. The Solent and Sunderland (and the Lockheeds) will all eventually be indoors.

4680 4681

Lots of detail photos of her in this link (Milton)

http://rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/20758/lockheed-lodestar-zk-bve-detail

[Milton Shupe]

Yes, I had found this aircraft and also had noted the corrosion. A sad, but I suspect useful end life. Thanks

[lemonadedrinker]

Hi,

This airplane is looking stunning, Milton, with the work you are doing :redfire: :applause::applause:

You all probably have seen this site,

Michael Zoeller's '' Lockheed Twins ''

The MIGHTY Howard 500 (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/m.zoeller/LTSRootntl2/Howard_500.html)

with pics and history. There seem to be so many types and without seeing them together it's difficult relating each one to the other to get the size!

That looks a bit like Howard Hughes sitting there in the pic from TG


Andy.

[Milton Shupe]

Hi,

This airplane is looking stunning, Milton, with the work you are doing :redfire: :applause::applause:

You all probably have seen this site,

Michael Zoeller's '' Lockheed Twins ''

The MIGHTY Howard 500 (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/m.zoeller/LTSRootntl2/Howard_500.html)

with pics and history. There seem to be so many types and without seeing them together it's difficult relating each one to the other to get the size!

That looks a bit like Howard Hughes sitting there in the pic from TG


Andy.

Hi Andy. :-) Oh yes, Michael's site I discovered in 2004 as I was looking to do the Howard 500. In fact, IIRC, it was Michael that put me in contact with the pilot Dave Cummins of the N500HP. Dave went on to provide pictures, performance and handling data, videos of everything, and a free ride to Oshkosh for Scott Thomas, our panel and gauge programmer, and Dave did the beta testing on the flight model.

Scott also got some left seat time on the way back. :-) Because of Dave Cummins and Scotts trip to MN, the Howard 500 turned out to be a much better project in the end.

Here's a picture of Scott and Dave at Oshkosh that year.

[Maarten -]

Kia ora,

Thanks for all the info, SPman. I'm glad that these beautiful aircraft will be going indoors. I think I've spent about two hours in the existing hall alone. What a treasure that is. Beautiful!

Cheers,
Maarten

[lemonadedrinker]

Hi,

I wondered where that paint job came from !

No wonder it's such a great model to fly from the input that went into it from all your Team.

Thank you.

Andy.

[Milton Shupe]

Just about wrapped up on the exterior for the P&W Twin Wasp version.

Today, added/animated rudder trim tabs, lights all around (nose, gear/taxi, nav, beacon), reshaped flaps/reanimated, cleaned up engine nacelles, antennas, rudder hinges, added cabin vents, reset tail wheel height, moved engines forward and improved face, shortened prop collars, etc. having trouble remembering it all. :-)

Does anyone know the purpose of the nose light? Taxi, landing???

I think except for 2 antenna styles, this is done and ready for mapping.

Will spend rest of day reviewing all the reference pictures for the exterior, and adding anything I missed. :-)

[Bill Kestell]

Totally sweet!

[mrogers]

Totally awesome!! :applause:
I'm really looking forward to it's release! I have waited so long for a FS9 Lodestar! Yahoo!! Thanks Milton, you're the man, you are making it look so easy building this model.
I'd like to point out that the landing flaps trailing edge were straight- the wing's trailing edge were just an overlapping extension. If you look at the videos posted on here you'll notice the difference. Same thing with the Ventura. I read somewhere that both planes shared the same center wing and spar, only difference is everything forward of the center wing.
I don't know about the purpose of the nose light, it could be a taxi light, some DC3s had them too. Most modern aircraft have a taxi light on their nosewheel (or nose in light aircraft). That's just my thoughts, somebody else may know.

[Milton Shupe]

Totally awesome!! :applause:
I'm really looking forward to it's release! I have waited so long for a FS9 Lodestar! Yahoo!! Thanks Milton, you're the man, you are making it look so easy building this model.
I'd like to point out that the landing flaps trailing edge were straight- the wing's trailing edge were just an overlapping extension. If you look at the videos posted on here you'll notice the difference. Same thing with the Ventura. I read somewhere that both planes shared the same center wing and spar, only difference is everything forward of the center wing.
I don't know about the purpose of the nose light, it could be a taxi light, some DC3s had them too. Most modern aircraft have a taxi light on their nosewheel (or nose in light aircraft). That's just my thoughts, somebody else may know.

Thank you :-)

Yes, I knew about the flaps; just didn't get around to changing them until yesterday. Here's a shot of the current model.

[Bill Kestell]

I'm reasonably certain that inverted flight is a forbidden manuever per the pilot's manual:dizzy: along with things like outside loops!:jump:

[Milton Shupe]

I'm reasonably certain that inverted flight is a forbidden manuever per the pilot's manual:dizzy: along with things like outside loops!:jump:

I assure you that this was a simple "slew" maneuver under the watchful eye of the FAA. :wiggle:

[PeteHam]

I'm reasonably certain that inverted flight is a forbidden manuever per the pilot's manual:dizzy: along with things like outside loops!:jump:


OK with positive 'G' all the way around :encouragement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1qSzCnzXvY&feature=youtu.be


Really looking forward to this latest creation Milton :jump:

Pete.

[Milton Shupe]

Thanks for the comments and sentiments :-)

It appears like I have the exterior model finished now except for adding other cowl versions.

I need to get all the optional equipment out of the model scene and available to call up as I need them.

Once done, I can work on the other cowl variants.

[Maarten -]

Totally awesome!! :applause:
I'm really looking forward to it's release! I have waited so long for a FS9 Lodestar! Yahoo!! Thanks Milton, you're the man, you are making it look so easy building this model.
I'd like to point out that the landing flaps trailing edge were straight- the wing's trailing edge were just an overlapping extension. If you look at the videos posted on here you'll notice the difference. Same thing with the Ventura. I read somewhere that both planes shared the same center wing and spar, only difference is everything forward of the center wing.
I don't know about the purpose of the nose light, it could be a taxi light, some DC3s had them too. Most modern aircraft have a taxi light on their nosewheel (or nose in light aircraft). That's just my thoughts, somebody else may know.

Hi Milton,

Neither in the 'Maintenance Instructions manual for the Lockheed Lodestar 18' nor the 'Erection and Maintenance Instructions manual for the C-60A and R5O-6' mention is made of a (taxi)light in the nose of the aircraft. (See attachment scanned from the first manual) So I should say it is not part of the standard equipment.

Cheers,
Maarten

[Milton Shupe]

Hi Milton,

Neither in the 'Maintenance Instructions manual for the Lockheed Lodestar 18' nor the 'Erection and Maintenance Instructions manual for the C-60A and R5O-6' mention is made of a (taxi)light in the nose of the aircraft. (See attachment scanned from the first manual) So I should say it is not part of the standard equipment.

Cheers,
Maarten

Interesting Maarten because that light is on 95% of all the aircraft reference pictures I have of both civilian and military examples. {{{scratching head}}}

[Maarten -]

Interesting Maarten because that light is on 95% of all the aircraft reference pictures I have of both civilian and military examples. {{{scratching head}}}

I would say photos don't lie. :-)

[Milton Shupe]

I would say photos don't lie. :-)

Maybe manuals were done before the production change?? Interesting. :-)

EDIT: BTW, I have added wing lights (on the fuselage) as an option. See attached

[Maarten -]

Maybe manuals were done before the production change?? Interesting. :-)

EDIT: BTW, I have added wing lights (on the fuselage) as an option. See attached

I just ordered the 'Lockheed model 18-56 Lodestar - Operating Instructions' manual (on CD). I noticed a 3-view drawing that indeed shows something like a light in the nose. As soon as I have received the manual, I'll send a copy of that one to you also.

Cheers,
Maarten

[Milton Shupe]

I just ordered the 'Lockheed model 18-56 Lodestar - Operating Instructions' manual (on CD). I noticed a 3-view drawing that indeed shows something like a light in the nose. As soon as I have received the manual, I'll send of copy of that one to you also.

Cheers,
Maarten

Thank you Maarten.

I had also overlooked any kind of belly beacon and tail lights of any kind.

Finally noticed on a few commercial examples belly beacons and one or two tail vertically mounted lights of some kind.

[Milton Shupe]

Can someone tell me how the two stacked tail lights should be rendered. White/red/yellow? Top = ??, Bottom = ?? No strobes in 50's right?

EDIT: and this one has 3 tail lights. :-) Do not know what to do with that at all. :-)

[Maarten -]

Can someone tell me how the two stacked tail lights should be rendered. White/red/yellow? Top = ??, Bottom = ?? No strobes in 50's right?

On DDA's DC-3C PH-DDA (ex-Finnish Air Force, Finnair) the top light at the tip of the tail cone was white and the bottom light was red. On the tip of the fin there was a large red beacon light.

Cheers,
Maarten

[Milton Shupe]

On DDA's DC-3C PH-DDA (ex-Finnish Air Force, Finnair) the top light at the tip of the tail cone was white and the bottom light was red. On the tip of the fin there was a large red beacon light.

Cheers,
Maarten

Thanks for that input Maarten.

A question for those of you who like options: Would you prefer I model those light points in gmax, or leave them for light effects?

[Maarten -]

Thanks for that input Maarten.

A question for those of you who like options: Would you prefer I model those light points in gmax, or leave them for light effects?

Hi Milton,

My preference would definitely go for light effects. Makes the model more flexible for all 70 plus years the type flies.

[wbuchart]

Thanks for that input Maarten.

A question for those of you who like options: Would you prefer I model those light points in gmax, or leave them for light effects?


Aircraft.cfg file please.....most modeled lights don't look right for me, no doubt because my rig has a business class graphics card. Thanks! Bill

Edit:: Also, I do like to change nav and strobe effects around from time to time...

[wbuchart]

Can someone tell me how the two stacked tail lights should be rendered. White/red/yellow? Top = ??, Bottom = ?? No strobes in 50's right?

EDIT: and this one has 3 tail lights. :-) Do not know what to do with that at all. :-)

I can get you that info on my way home from work, beleive it or not there is an abandoned L-18 about 3 miles from my house at KLOU. Engines and cowlings have been stripped but everything else is there.

[Milton Shupe]

Thanks for the input; I will go with aircraft.cfg based light effects for the fixed nav/beacon/recognition lights. Wing, taxi, and landing lights will be modeled.

[Motormouse]

Maybe manuals were done before the production change?? Interesting. :-)



That's quite normal for aviation even nowadays manuals are written off the design data , production changes and easements take time to get added to manuals.

Tail lights are normally white, multi lamp installations usually comprise a main and a spare.

Ttfn

Pete

Ps the red tail light on ph-dda was a leftover from wartime service, a night formation light.

[Maarten -]

That's quite normal for aviation even nowadays manuals are written off the design data , production changes and easements take time to get added to manuals.

Tail lights are normally white, multi lamp installations usually comprise a main and a spare.

Ttfn

Pete

Ps the red tail light on ph-dda was a leftover from wartime service, a night formation light.

Oh yeah! That should be the reason. A leftover from the Finnish Air Force period. There was also a white light on the underside of the fuselage only inches behind the mid wing. For the same reason, I suppose.

[tgibson]

I prefer the nav lights to be in cfg file too. Those huge light globes are just too big. But I know that people like them built in so they are visible in Multiplayer. :)

[srgalahad]

The basic standard has long been:

(b) Left and right position lights. Left and right position lights must consist of a red and a green light spaced laterally as far apart as practicable and installed on the airplane such that, with the airplane in the normal flying position, the red light is on the left side and the green light is on the right side.

(c) Rear position light. The rear position light must be a white light mounted as far aft as practicable on the tail or on each wing tip.


§23.1401 Anti-collision light system.

(a) General. The airplane must have an anti-collision light system that:

(1) Consists of one or more approved anti-collision lights located so that their light will not impair the flight crewmembers' vision or detract from the conspicuity of the position lights; and

(2) Meets the requirements of paragraphs (b) through (f) of this section.

(d) Color. Each anticollision light must be either aviation red or aviation white and must meet the applicable requirements of §23.1397.

The position lights rules have been modified a bit at different times, mostly because specific aircraft had reasons for slight modifications (like multiple fins that blocked the normal requirements).
Anti-collision lights were not common until late-war or post WWII and have evolved from blinking (generally red) top & bottom lights, through the "Grimes" lights which used oscillating miniature spotlights in (most often) a red housing that gave a much brighter light. Grimes and others also developed other lights that were adopted or tested for wingtips etc. With the advent of capacitive-discharge lights (strobes) that were smaller and lighter the regulations changed again.

The original Lodestar lights were a single white rear position light, although there may have been military or civil requirements for an additional red tail light for identification or formation flying. Often, when new standards were tested the owners would install them but then would simply leave the housing and disable the lamp if it was ultimately not required.

Looking at the pictures, the dual-lights are a white position light and a red (or white) strobe aftermarket installation. The 3-light set-up is likely a standard single white original with a dual-light kit installed later.

There was (from my experience) no single set of locations for the top/belly anti-collision lights.The top ones seemed to be installed mid-fuselage to over the rear door -maybe just for ease of access to wiring. The lower ones I've seen were anywhere between the line of the wing spar to the passenger door -again ease of access may be the prime factor. Don't forget that the bulk of online pics show aircraft that have been in service and modified more than once.

Going back to the nose light for a moment, I found a pic that shows an opening but no light. It's likely that it was a duct for cabin air/heat and there was an option/mod to install a light - perhaps with some space left around the circumference for air intake. More interesting are the TCA & Canadian Pacific glazed noses that had a rotating loop antenna. I haven't found a reference but it wouldn't surprise me if it was a solution to cold-weather issues to prevent the loop mechanism from freezing. These aircraft also had a teardrop fixed loop antenna under the forward fuselage. Hard to tell if these also had a light behind the perspex.

[Dev One]

When were anti collision lights mandatory? I though they didn't come in until the late 60's early 70's?
The white strobes were even later, needing development of the xenon lamps & power sources.
So the installation of same will complicate the era of the paint scheme!
Keith

[Milton Shupe]

Thank you for that info Rob; very interesting.

I will model all the lights and provide cfg entries that may be used or disabled. Great conversation is appreciated. :-)

[Motormouse]

Shorts 3-30 and 3-60 (another of my type ratings :) ) had grimes rotating beacon, 2 miniature
spotlights, rotating housing and red lens cover, they were 1970s design!

Not sure when anti collision beacons became mandatory, probably tied up in far part 91 for our transatlantic cousins, and bcar and similar for us in Europe.

Ttfn

Pete

[srgalahad]

When were anti collision lights mandatory? I though they didn't come in until the late 60's early 70's?
The white strobes were even later, needing development of the xenon lamps & power sources.
So the installation of same will complicate the era of the paint scheme!
Keith

I have photos of NorthStars in 1956/57 showing anti-collision lights (top of tail) but it looks as if that was phasing-in as some also don't have them. However I have a "fleet" pic of TCA aircraft (Connie, NorthStar, & DC-3) at CYVR in 1959 with all so-equipped. That makes it probable that 1960 was the 'mandatory date'. Of course, not all countries enabled the legislation on the same timetable but I doubt it would be much later.

"Anti-collision lights:

Flashing high-intensity lights, which considerably increase chances of recognition under night flying or dull-weather conditions, will shortly become mandatory for heavier aircraft in at least one I.C.A.O. member state."

Flight Magazine - Oct 1955
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1955/1955%20-%201515.html?search=anti-collision%20lights

[srgalahad]

Lest anyone think there are "standard" locations for things such as lights and antennae...

4766

The 'approved' method of cleaning the lens on the Grimes beacon is to get the new kid on the ramp to climb up via the hood of the tow mule, straddle the fuselage and using a rag and MirrorGlaze, polish the lens - while the 'old guy' hooks up the tow bar and begins towing the Lodestar down the ramp. (Don't ask!)

Also note that TDB still had HF radios installed in May 65 when this pic was taken - long-wire from the mast to each fin and a short lead to an insulated connector on the nose. Two newer auto-sensing ADF antennae under the forward fuselage, glide slope on the nose (note the"spear" pitot tube also on the nose). Clear view windows have been replaced with 1-piece windshield and hinged ports added to the cockpit side windows.

As an alternative, look at this partly-Howard-modified 18-56.
http://courtesyaircraft.com/Current%20Inventory/N6166%20Lockheed%20L-18%20Lodestar.htm
Scan thru the pics ( can be viewed full screen) and see the dual light tail nav light and different locations for the anti-collision beacons. The new nav lights were installed in 1994 (pic #82) according to the logbook.

[Milton Shupe]

I prefer the nav lights to be in cfg file too. Those huge light globes are just too big. But I know that people like them built in so they are visible in Multiplayer. :)

I am with you on that Tom. So it shall be :-)

[Milton Shupe]

Okay, I think I have all I need for now. Added the tail lights stack, added a belly beacon, and added the lead wire from the nose mount to the top array. With this inventory of antennae and lights, we should be able to cover many variants.

Unless you see something that needs addressing, I shall move "indoors" to the Cabin and VC. :running:

EDIT: Not happy with the fuselage tail, and the HTail has to be moved up 4-6 inches to meet the later standards. The 3-view showed the old original htail location.

[Milton Shupe]

Fuselage tail redo; much better I think compared to picture above.

[t.creed]

yes...the revised horizontal/tail work does more clearly reflect the "bump" ... looking real good sir ..!!
rgds
t creed

[srgalahad]

Flight Magazine had this article
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1940/1940%20-%203229.html

Scroll down the page to "Progress in Research" - Vibration

I knew the L-18 prototypes were modified from Hudson airframes but hadn't seen a picture before now (with the original empennage)
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1940/1940%20-%200573.html

(http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1940/1940%20-%200573.html)"The prototype for the revised airliner, designated Model 18 by Lockheed, was converted from the fourth Model 14, one of a batch which had been returned to the manufacturer by Northwest Airlines after a series of crashes. The modified aircraft first flew in this form on September 21, 1939, another two prototypes being converted from Model 14s, with the first newly built Model 18 flying on February 2, 1940."
http://pediaview.com/openpedia/Lockheed_Model_18_Lodestar
(http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1940/1940%20-%200573.html)

[Milton Shupe]

Flight Magazine had this article
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1940/1940%20-%203229.html

Scroll down the page to "Progress in Research" - Vibration

I knew the L-18 prototypes were modified from Hudson airframes but hadn't seen a picture before now (with the original empennage)
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1940/1940%20-%200573.html

Very interesting finds Rob. Thanks :-)

[Milton Shupe]

Continuing to improve the fuselage tail section, vtails and rudders shapes (thank you Moses03).

[wbuchart]

Milton, I got a few odd pictures of the L-18 by my house, close-up of the nose with the taxi light, side lights under the cockpit, tail lights, and a few others.

[Milton Shupe]

Thank you Sir; that is very helpful. Nice clear details there. :applause: Excellent picture quality.

[nigel richards]

Let's add some nice views and music to this great project.

Video one: starting up the 1,200 hp Wright Cyclone GR1820-G102A or GR1820-G202A or R-1820-87 engines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yOIE3D_avA

Video two: The great shiny bird in her element.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM9d62D2JzQ

Video three: travelling with the C-60A (in formation with another Lodestar)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC3vUHkCo7Q

((whispering) What do you think of that sound, Nigel? ;) )

Cheers,
Maarten

((icon: yelling :icon))

Great finds, Maarten!
Never new the C-60 could sound so awesome.

[nigel richards]

Fuselage tail redo; much better I think compared to picture above.

I've never hidden my hitherto indifference to the Lodestar.
No prejudice - just an aircraft that never managed to steal my heart.

That was until now...

What have ye done Sir!

What beauty! What mastery of the eye and vertice!

She's an absolute DOLL Milton. :applause::jump::wavey:

[Blackbird686]

Just look at that ROUND, PLUMP girl...

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4790&d=1393610443

She's a beauty, Milton!

BB686

[Maarten -]

She certainly is! :)

[Milton Shupe]

LOL Guys; thanks; we were making some great progress until we ran across some really nice station drawings with more accurate everything. Why do these things show up after the modeling is done. :banghead:

At any rate, started last night redoing the vtail and htail; that work is just now done. Just working on redoing fuselage cockpit, windows and doors, then to get the cockpit windshield area realigned for the umpteenth time, a very complex task pushing lots of vertices around to flatten the windshield glass area. You can see in teh attached how the windows are of about 4-6" depending, the cargo doors a bit more, passenger door close, bathroom window way off. Just hard to find decent 3-views these days it seems. Thanks to Moses03 for finding a few drawings that helped get this more correct.

Anyway, if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. :-) So, no hurry, lots of due diligence at the moment. :running:

[lemonadedrinker]

Hi,

Amazing job being done here.... . .:applause:.... this airplane looks too heavy to get off the ground ! She's a beauty.

Andy

[andersel]

Milton - It's wonderful to watch the work progress on the L-18. I've liked the Loadstars ever since, as a kid, I saw a picture of H.H. returning from his '38 around the world flight. Looking forward to this beauty's completion.

LA

[Milton Shupe]

Hey thanks guys. Just finished up all the fuselage changes, windows and doors cut, and humpty-dumpty is back together again. Just need to re-animate the doors and some small touchups. Looks okay in FS9.

Having moved the cockpit windows forward a bit, I need to go inside to push cockpit stuff around. Looks like we can better accommodate 14 passengers now in the airline version. :-)

[TuFun]

I saw this and thought about Garry J Smith...

... when you see the pics, you'll know why!

http://www.wingnet.org/rtw/RTW007S.HTM

[Milton Shupe]

With completing the revamping of the fuselage and tail section, part of the task was recutting in the doors and windows shown here in preparation.

Everything reanimated and working shown here in FS. We got lights, plenty lights, and we have 6000 pounds of radios now in inventory. :-)

With that done, I have moved to the inside getting ready to properly appoint the cabin as its time to get the revenue stream in focus. :-)

[Milton Shupe]

Just to let you know I am not sleeping in, here has been the focus this morning. Should get all the cabin amenities done today, then on to the cockpit.

[pfflyers]

Hey Milton,

This project is looking great! Can't wait to see it in my sim. I really appreciate the hours and hours you pour into these.

Thanks

[Milton Shupe]

Thanks pfflyer. Still crankin' on the cabin parts and having fun. :-) She is shaping up.

[Milton Shupe]

Since Nigel is busy with several projects textures and sounds, I am open for a quality primary texture artist to do the Lodestar civilian and military exterior and interior textures. Included must be a paint kit.

I am thinking that 3 civvie L-18 and max 2 military C-56/57/59/60A textures for the project release.

I expect to have all the mapping done before end of March, or about 3-4 weeks.

For Civvie liveries, most have some bare metal work mixed with the paint so that may be a challenge.

Thinking about Continental, Trans-Canada, South African Airways, National, Canadian Pacific, Alaska Star, Trans-Australia, Swedair, Panair Do Brazil, SA, Pacific Alaska, and United Airlines Speedliner as some possibilities to select from.

Interested? PM me please.

[Sascha66]

It's great to see this superb model coming to being before one's eyes!

Sascha

[Moses03]

I think the later National livery is really pretty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJk3vhf82hw (0:45 into the clip)

You can't go wrong with any of those that Milton listed. :encouragement:

[Rallymodeller]

I think it's hilarious that the last two seats are narrower to fit in the fuselage. Well played, Lockheed. Well played.

And I'd love to volunteer for the primary painter position, but I am not nearly confident enough in my bare metal-fu to take on that challenge.

[darrenvox]

sorry about the delay on this one but good luck with the build of the aircraft and also hopefully ill get to fly it soon...is it for fs9??

[Maarten -]

I think it's hilarious that the last two seats are narrower to fit in the fuselage. Well played, Lockheed. Well played.

Actually I thought they were meant for cabin attendents. ;)


And I'd love to volunteer for the primary painter position, but I am not nearly confident enough in my bare metal-fu to take on that challenge.

Same for me, I'm afraid. :( I don't have the proper tools nor the skill to create a bare metal skin. When it comes to repainting on a metal skin, it is a different story.

Cheers,
Maarten

[Ferry_vO]

Another beautiful Milton creation! :jump:

[Milton Shupe]

Been busy constructing the cabin and cockpit interiors and have made excellent progress with the cabin mostly complete.

In the cockpit I thought this beauty needed new seats and yoke stems so that has been a part of today's activity.

Got the exterior lights in place now and its ready for mapping as is the cabin.

The cockpit will take some time yet with so much to do although the new pilots seem to feel at home there.

[SIAI S81]

Such a wonderful airplane!!!

[t.creed]

really nice job with the yoke, the Lockheed name, ..nice.. !!!! :applause:
rgds
t creed

[mrogers]

Awesome! Milton, it is shaping up really well. Thanks for the flaps photo with the L18 upside down!! (an earlier reply to my first post about the flaps, on this great thread ) Thank you so much for your hard work and time.

[PeteHam]

Looking absolutely great Milton. :applause:

Here's a selection of Lockheed twins ..... http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=485370 (http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=485370)

Further down the page there's a series of L-18's of Union Airways of NZ ( pre National Airways Corporation ).

Pete.

[Volker Böhme]

Hi Milton,

this is outright amazing!

Best regards,
Volker

[Dev One]

PeteHam,
Thanks for posting those photos, I didnt realise the amount of variations on a theme!
Keith

[Milton Shupe]

Thanks for your interest and comments. I am looking forward to getting the VC done so that the texture mapping process can start. :-)

For those who haven't textured interiors, it is more fun than you might imagine. So many possibilities. :-) And, a lot easier to do than the exterior.

[Bill Kestell]

Thanks, Milton ... lookin' real good!!!

[Milton Shupe]

Working on the other engine cowling; definitely looks different.

LOL Whoops, someone stole my fuselage. :dizzy:

[lemonadedrinker]

Wow, looking fantastic already, even in grey.

Andy.

[Willy]

Looking great as always Milton!.

[Milton Shupe]

Thanks folks; I am now at a standstill until I receive some goodies in the mail from Maarten that will help to authenticate the cockpit layout and gauges. That should arrive this week.

Meanwhile Nigel and Duckie are making excellent progress with the Republic XP47J/H VC textures.

So, I will now go over the progress here and cleanup any issues, add a few cabin accessories, and group up my L-18/C-56/57/59/60A engine options and radio antenna inventory selections for ease of application.
Not looking for a lot of model variants here aside from basic engine cowling and cabin differences, military and civilian. Your thoughts appreciated.

[Milton Shupe]

I know some people like to look at the wire frames so here are a few. :-)

[Maarten -]

Please, oh yeah, hurry up Mr Postman!
(yeah yeah, hurry up Mr Postman!)

[Bill Kestell]

LOL Whoops, someone stole my fuselage. Yeah ... but what a view the passengers on the starboard side have!

[Hurricane91]

She's a peach Milton.

[SteveB]

Thanks folks; I am now at a standstill until I receive some goodies in the mail from Maarten that will help to authenticate the cockpit layout and gauges. That should arrive this week.

Meanwhile Nigel and Duckie are making excellent progress with the Republic XP47J/H VC textures.

So, I will now go over the progress here and cleanup any issues, add a few cabin accessories, and group up my L-18/C-56/57/59/60A engine options and radio antenna inventory selections for ease of application.
Not looking for a lot of model variants here aside from basic engine cowling and cabin differences, military and civilian. Your thoughts appreciated.


Any chance you could do a cargo version ?

Steve

[Milton Shupe]

Any chance you could do a cargo version ?

Steve

Yes, I have considered that since it is almost always requested. Have you any ideas about what kind of cargo you would like to see inside?

[Dev One]

Milton,
Do you have access to a copy of this months British 'Aeroplane' magazine? It has a small bit about a Hudson flying characteristics - the one in Oz. Obviously not completely compatible with non gun turret or wing slot versions.
I can copy to you via PM if you wish, but the whole article on the history of Hudsons & this one in particular is interesting.
Keith

[Milton Shupe]

Keith, although I have no Pilot's Reports on the handling of the Lodestar's many variants, I do have performance info and specs on all the versions. Not sure the Hudson flying characteristics (based on the L-14) is much related to the larger L-18 with various power plants and other differences.

[nigel richards]

Yes, I have considered that since it is almost always requested. Have you any ideas about what kind of cargo you would like to see inside?

I'm terrible at lists - but if it's a long, hot and sticky haul, a barrel or two of moonshine never goes amiss.
Kinda keeps you warm when the fish aint bitin' too.:wavey:

There again, you could end up with someone stealing the fuselage... :dizzy:or the whole plane!

[nigel richards]

Looking absolutely great Milton. :applause:

Here's a selection of Lockheed twins ..... http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=485370 (http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=485370)

Further down the page there's a series of L-18's of Union Airways of NZ ( pre National Airways Corporation ).

Pete.

Very nice catch, Pete.

Pacific Alaska Airways and VH-SMM 'The Sydney Morning Herald' are also very evocative of that golden era of aviation.

[srgalahad]

Any chance you could do a cargo version ?

Steve

Small cargo only :untroubled:
Door limitations:

cargo limited to 15" wide 24" high x 100" long; or 24" wide x 21 x 74; or 22" W X 36 x 62; or 23 X 48 x 54 or variations in between.
(There's a chart!)

[EMatheson]

Yes, I have considered that since it is almost always requested. Have you any ideas about what kind of cargo you would like to see inside?
Cargos of boxes and barrels are pretty common and easy - but how about something slightly more unusual? In addition to the boxes and barrels, add some bales, poles, and rolls of things - like bolts of fabric, pipes, etc. Maybe a large generator or some other sort of electrical equipment - the sort of things that might be needed for repair in a remote island or bush settlement. Include a handtruck, maybe, and slap an industrial scale fire-extinguisher on the wall. Perhaps a couple propane/butane/oxygen tanks would be good (I'm thinking small ones of these)?

[SteveB]

Yes, I have considered that since it is almost always requested. Have you any ideas about what kind of cargo you would like to see inside?

I was just thinking tear out the seats and soft furnishings, and leave the space free for the pilots imagination too fill.


Steve

[Milton Shupe]

Small cargo only :untroubled:
Door limitations:

cargo limited to 15" wide 24" high x 100" long; or 24" wide x 21 x 74; or 22" W X 36 x 62; or 23 X 48 x 54 or variations in between.
(There's a chart!)

Dang! So you are telling backwoods bush cargo haulers not to cut holes in the fuselage for a cargo door? :-)


Cargos of boxes and barrels are pretty common and easy - but how about something slightly more unusual? In addition to the boxes and barrels, add some bales, poles, and rolls of things - like bolts of fabric, pipes, etc. Maybe a large generator or some other sort of electrical equipment - the sort of things that might be needed for repair in a remote island or bush settlement. Include a handtruck, maybe, and slap an industrial scale fire-extinguisher on the wall. Perhaps a couple propane/butane/oxygen tanks would be good (I'm thinking small ones of these)?

Ahhh, some fresh ideas; I like the way you think; sounds very realistic. :-) The reason you usually see "boxes" is to limit poly count, but I will consider the list. :-)


I was just thinking tear out the seats and soft furnishings, and leave the space free for the pilots imagination too fill.


Steve

Now that's a poly count I can deal with :-)

[Milton Shupe]

Very nice catch, Pete.

Pacific Alaska Airways and VH-SMM 'The Sydney Morning Herald' are also very evocative of that golden era of aviation.

Oh, I agree Nigel. Excellent pics of those two liveries.

[nigel richards]

Dang! So you are telling backwoods bush cargo haulers not to cut holes in the fuselage for a cargo door? :-)



Heard about a dude up there in the backwaters of British Columbia who specialised in such mods to old gals - wonder if he's still in business...

[Milton Shupe]

Heard about a dude up there in the backwaters of British Columbia who specialised in such mods to old gals - wonder if he's still in business...

Was hoping to fly up there this weekend to chat with the ol' boy; come along if ya want.

[srgalahad]

If the cargo's not oversized (or is able to walk on it's own), the door can be removed/jettisoned in flight and then there's no need to actually land at those small bush strips - just toss or push. The factory even supplied a replacement cover for the doorway that could be carried onboard for such eventualities.

If the cargo's too bulky, find yourself a Waco CG-4 or such and attach it to the OEM tow-hook (yes there was one...) then find someone who wants to learn to fly (one way trips only).

I'm surprised more of the 'combat sim' types haven't asked for GI's with M-1 carbines poking out of the factory-installed gun ports in the windows. :rocket: (How's that for poly-count Milton?) <ducking>

OK, now let's get back to this wonderful civilian airliner..

"Lend-lease transfers to the RAF as Lodestar Mk. II's accounted for the first sixteen machines (EW983/EW997 and FK246) but fourteen additional aircraft, for which serials FK247/FK260 were reserved, were retained by the USAAF, as were the last six C-60-LO's. One aircraft, (c/n 18-2170, 42-108971), went to TWA as NC33604 to serve as a flight-research laboratory and executive transport.

It was the policy of Mr. Wortham that if someone wanted to go somewhere and the plane had an empty seat they were always welcome as passengers. So subsequently, the Lodestar became a VIP transport not unlike it's TWA years which had the same generous policy. Just a few of the remembered passengers were Herbert Walker Bush, (president of Zapata Petroleum, later, President of the United States), Senator John Connally (wounded when President John F. Kennedy was assassinated), Senator John Tower, Governor Preston Smith, Dr. Denton A. Cooley, (the famous heart pioneer, who often traveled with his bass fiddle), the DuPonts, and three of the original astronauts."

Read more of the story here: http://www.sedonalegendhelenfrye.com/1963.html

and the rest of the story can be found by clicking on the dates at the side of the articles -- it's quite the story.

[Milton Shupe]

Very interesting story there Rob; thank you :-)

[nigel richards]

Was hoping to fly up there this weekend to chat with the ol' boy; come along if ya want.

Better take a box of finest stogies with you if you're going to 'ask' Lou for his services - you know what he's like when he starts all that cussin' 'n kickin'.

[AussieMan]

Very nice catch, Pete.

Pacific Alaska Airways and VH-SMM 'The Sydney Morning Herald' are also very evocative of that golden era of aviation.

FSAddon produced a nice Hudson package a couple of years ago and I produced some repaints of Australian Hudsons which included VH-SMM. Also managed to put out a couple of ADASTRA Aerial Surveys Hudsons as well. The repaints can be found in the library here on SOH.

This site may yield some information for you even though it covers mainly Australian Lockheeds http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/lockheed.htm.

[mrogers]

Re the freighter idea for the Lodestar, here's a link to a photo of one that had actually been converted to a freighter with an enlarged cabin door
http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/lodestar/h7vhxus.htm from Aussieman's link to http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/lockheed.htm (http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/lockheed.htm).

[Milton Shupe]

Re the freighter idea for the Lodestar, here's a link to a photo of one that had actually been converted to a freighter with an enlarged cabin door
http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/lodestar/h7vhxus.htm from Aussieman's link to http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/lockheed.htm (http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/lockheed.htm).

Nice find there mrogers :-) Thanks

[nigel richards]

AussieMan: great site, lots of interesting history and facts as well as photos. Well, I'm pretty sentimental about Australian aviation.
Thanks.

mrogers: Now that's what I call a real cargo door! Nice paint job too.

[Milton Shupe]

FSAddon produced a nice Hudson package a couple of years ago and I produced some repaints of Australian Hudsons which included VH-SMM. Also managed to put out a couple of ADASTRA Aerial Surveys Hudsons as well. The repaints can be found in the library here on SOH.

This site may yield some information for you even though it covers mainly Australian Lockheeds http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/lockheed.htm.

Still trolling through them all Aussieman; I hope you feel inspired to do a few yourself. Not sure if we can get this working for you in P3D but will try. Otherwise, maybe a native conversion will help.

[AussieMan]

No worries Milton. Just give me an FSX prop file and I will get the rest working. The Dash 7 works fine in P3D V2.

[bpfowler]

Interested to know what panel ideas are under consideration...
Anyone have a diagram of the National or TCA set ups?
Forgive if this query is either

ill-timed
or covered elsewhere

[Milton Shupe]

Interested to know what panel ideas are under consideration...
Anyone have a diagram of the National or TCA set ups?
Forgive if this query is either

ill-timed
or covered elsewhere



Not at all. I want to make it as authentic as the factory delivered L-18 and C-57-60A. But, there were many variants with custom builds for customers. I'll do the best I can to keep it era-correct.

Of course, the panel/gauges will be "modifiable", and would support any changes you wish to make.

[srgalahad]

Interested to know what panel ideas are under consideration...
Anyone have a diagram of the National or TCA set ups?
Forgive if this query is either

ill-timed
or covered elsewhere



Unfortunately, there are few photos of "at delivery" cockpits readily available. Most that can be found online are of 1960's or later and depict aircraft that were updated or (significantly) modified by Lear, PacAero, etc. and we've scoured hundreds of images and a couple of dozen books. There is one good, labeled drawing of a C-60 main panel but only a partial overhead and enough evidence, as Milton said, that there were various layouts specified or offered depending on the customer. The C-60's had a radio operator position, the civil ones likely had very limited and not-FS-functional radios so there will have to be some compromises there and hopefully little or no need for custom gauges.

It's further hampered due to the close confines of the cockpit not being easily photographed and often the surviving period photos are intended to feature the smiling faces of happy crews for PR purposes. Even aircraft now in museums are often not restored and still have the modernized cockpits from when they last operated. The search continues. I'm attempting to get enough info from two museums as to the state of their aircraft and whether there are pics, or if I can get in to take photos but...

Rob

[nigel richards]

Unfortunately, there are few photos of "at delivery" cockpits readily available. Most that can be found online are of 1960's or later and depict aircraft that were updated or (significantly) modified by Lear, PacAero, etc. and we've scoured hundreds of images and a couple of dozen books. There is one good, labeled drawing of a C-60 main panel but only a partial overhead and enough evidence, as Milton said, that there were various layouts specified or offered depending on the customer. The C-60's had a radio operator position, the civil ones likely had very limited and not-FS-functional radios so there will have to be some compromises there and hopefully little or no need for custom gauges.

It's further hampered due to the close confines of the cockpit not being easily photographed and often the surviving period photos are intended to feature the smiling faces of happy crews for PR purposes. Even aircraft now in museums are often not restored and still have the modernized cockpits from when they last operated. The search continues. I'm attempting to get enough info from two museums as to the state of their aircraft and whether there are pics, or if I can get in to take photos but...

Rob


Your tenacity and diligence in the quest for panel/gauge references is truly praiseworthy, Rob.

The value of such material gleaned for these projects cannot be overstated. Many a detail; sub-panel, switch, gauge - rests on the behind scenes, generous efforts of folk like yourself.

Bravo!

[Milton Shupe]

Your tenacity and diligence in the quest for panel/gauge references is truly praiseworthy, Rob.

The value of such material gleaned for these projects cannot be overstated. Many a detail; sub-panel, switch, gauge - rests on the behind scenes, generous efforts of folk like yourself.

Bravo!

Agree wholeheartedly! Rob is one of many who help to do the research and keep us pouring of the details to try to get things correctly modeled and rendered. Depending on the project interest, the list of contributors can be quite long. They are easy to spot; just look through the threads for the project. Involvement and communication are key to project quality and completeness. :applause:

[Matt Wynn]

as always if there's any way i can assist.... " 'Tiger' reporting in!"

[Milton Shupe]

as always if there's any way i can assist.... " 'Tiger' reporting in!"

Thanks Matt; great to see you back in action. :jump:

[lemonadedrinker]

Hi,
I found a few pictures of panels which I'm putting here, and a cardboard box of useful looking spare gauges:dizzy:


5316 5317 5318 5320 5319

The chances are that you have seen all these before!

Andy.

[Milton Shupe]

Hi,
I found a few pictures of panels which I'm putting here, and a cardboard box of useful looking spare gauges:dizzy:


5316 5317 5318 5320 5319

The chances are that you have seen all these before!

Andy.

Thanks Andy. Some are identified as Hudson's, and one is a C-40; not sure what that is unless it was a transport based on the L-14.

[Milton Shupe]

As best I can tell, this would be the real PV-1 cockpit at least from the Vega Ventura viewpoint. Not sure how the commercial carriers would have differed other than armament and other military mods.

[lemonadedrinker]

Hi,
this is a pic which shows the side window arrangement a bit better than some... although I don't understand if they open sideways or outwards !


5325

Andy

[Matt Wynn]

Thanks Matt; great to see you back in action. :jump:

it's good to be back i gotta admit... heck call me 'sentimental' if you must, but i missed the old crowd.

[Milton Shupe]

Hi,
this is a pic which shows the side window arrangement a bit better than some... although I don't understand if they open sideways or outwards !


5325

Andy

Rob seems to think that it opens from the bottom up I believe.

[nigel richards]

Rob seems to think that it opens from the bottom up I believe.

How many setups are on these?

The starbd. side window works back - forth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yOIE3D_avA

1:35 into video.

[AussieMan]

Hi,
this is a pic which shows the side window arrangement a bit better than some... although I don't understand if they open sideways or outwards !


5325

Andy

The L-18 was part of the Lockheed family that included the Hudson and Lodestar and the side windows followed the same principle on all models. That is the side window was hinged at the top and therefore opened from the bottom up.

I no longer fly FS9 but am following this thread as I intend to see if it will work on FSX and either of the P3D versions.

[Milton Shupe]

How many setups are on these?

The starbd. side window works back - forth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yOIE3D_avA

1:35 into video.

The quarter windows had a different purpose in those days when windshield icing was a problem. The pilots could open the frosted quarter windows protected by the wing wind deflector window out front to be able to see around the wing deflector the to land. See attachment.




The L-18 was part of the Lockheed family that included the Hudson and Lodestar and the side windows followed the same principle on all models. That is the side window was hinged at the top and therefore opened from the bottom up.

I no longer fly FS9 but am following this thread as I intend to see if it will work on FSX and either of the P3D versions.

Aussieman, it will work in FSX for sure as I test on both sides. Hoping you will be able to add some of those nice liveries from down under. :-)

[nigel richards]

The quarter windows had a different purpose in those days when windshield icing was a problem. The pilots could open the frosted quarter windows protected by the wing wind deflector window out front to be able to see around the wing deflector the to land. See attachment.



Fascinating, practical solution.

So you'll be modeling this to operate with a key function, Sir?

[AussieMan]

The quarter windows had a different purpose in those days when windshield icing was a problem. The pilots could open the frosted quarter windows protected by the wing wind deflector window out front to be able to see around the wing deflector the to land. See attachment.



Aussieman, it will work in FSX for sure as I test on both sides. Hoping you will be able to add some of those nice liveries from down under. :-)

I have the paint buckets on order Milton. Will do my best.

@Nigel, Click spots that open and close the window seem to work better and save3 keys for more important functions.

[Milton Shupe]

Fascinating, practical solution.

So you'll be modeling this to operate with a key function, Sir?

Yes I will. I am holding off adding the additional windshield pillar and wind break window because there are some models that do not have it.

[srgalahad]

The "side" window slides aft in a track. In this pic you can see the starboard one open an inch or so.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Lockheed-18-56-Lodestar/1971359/L/

The "Adjustable front window" is interesting. As Milton said, it opened so the pilots could see out, protected by the 'wind deflector'. Working from the replacement instructions: 5356
and the notations on this pic
5357
to open the window for visibility, the pilot would loosen the two clamps at the bottom, then release the tensioner on the ball joint at the top and pivot the window... inward at the bottom using the 'handle', pulling aft slightly and then turning, rotating on the ball joint to be parallel to the longitudinal axis of the aircraft. There is no indication from the exterior photos that the window was able to move outward and the taper on the inside of the frame indicates it was designed to clear the inner frame. It makes no sense to pivot the window forward where a iced-over panel would then ruin any view through the front windshield. lemonadedrinker's Hudson pic shows a near-identical arrangement. It should look something like this when open.

5355

As far as modeling and animating it, I'll bow to Milton's expertise, but think it would be a PITA for anything other than the novelty value.

[Maarten -]

Hi Milton,

Has the mailman delivered the CDs "already"? If not, I'll do a new attempt.

Cheers,
Maarten

[Maarten -]

I can't remember having seen it in this thread before, but anyway... Just found this:
5360
Cheers,
Maarten

P.S. Milton Sir, I'll e-mail the original scan to you.

[Milton Shupe]

Hi Milton,

Has the mailman delivered the CDs "already"? If not, I'll do a new attempt.

Cheers,
Maarten

Maarten, :wavey: yes, the postman arrived with your package Saturday. :jump: Thank you very much :-)

[Milton Shupe]

I can't remember having seen it in this thread before, but anyway... Just found this:
5360
Cheers,
Maarten

P.S. Milton Sir, I'll e-mail the original scan to you.

Thank you; received and secured, :-)

[AussieMan]

I can't remember having seen it in this thread before, but anyway... Just found this:
5360
Cheers,
Maarten

P.S. Milton Sir, I'll e-mail the original scan to you.

You can tell that either the drawing is of a Navy Lodestar or the drawing was done by an ex-Navy person. The only time you see the toilet referred to a 'head' :).

[bpfowler]

Golly, nice cockpit photo.And that VIP layout has some good points
I can't remember having seen it in this thread before, but anyway... Just found this: 5360 Cheers, MaartenP.S. Milton Sir, I'll e-mail the original scan to you.

[Milton Shupe]

Okay, now that I have some reasonable pictures of the factory released cockpit, I have started on fleshing out the L-18 Commercial VC. The cabin is mostly done except for mapping. Making some headway here. :jump:

[Rallymodeller]

Lookin' sharp!

[fliger747]

Great looking plane. I am always amazed at the productivity level Milton exudes. I think this will be even more popular than the Harpoon.

The he cockpit side windows are known as clear vision windows. Indeed if iced up one can open these and get some forward vision. They are designed such that the wind will be deflected around the side. It appears that this aircraft needed additional deflectors.

tom

[Milton Shupe]

Working on the basic cockpit infrastructure now, cleaning up interior mesh, building sidewall shapes, working on panels, sizes, shapes, positioning, all necessary but somewhat tedious work.

[fliger747]

Milton kindly sent me the ongoing and flyable airplane to begin tuning it into a Loadstar. I even re installed FS9 on my "mainframe" but somehow couldn't get FSUPIC and AFSD to work for some reason so am currently developing it in FSX. The military added so much stuff to the Ventura (later project) it is amazing that one would fly!

cheers. Tom

[Milton Shupe]

Milton kindly sent me the ongoing and flyable airplane to begin tuning it into a Loadstar. I even re installed FS9 on my "mainframe" but somehow couldn't get FSUPIC and AFSD to work for some reason so am currently developing it in FSX. The military added so much stuff to the Ventura (later project) it is amazing that one would fly!

cheers. Tom

Just finished first round of flight performance testing Tom. Climb-out and cruise testing at various altitudes and cruise settings show you are in the ballpark on speeds and SFC. Very nice and well-mannered in all phases of flight. Max speeds also very close. This is a great start to another hand-flying pilot's aircraft. I am really liking this. :jump:

[srgalahad]

Just something to ponder re: the flight model.

Toward the end of the operational civil life of the Lodestars there were several that saw use as jump aircraft (since it was designed for it). However, the skydiver crowd was a bit different from the troops in that they tended to cluster near the door pre-jump. I've found at least two references to the Lodestar's sensitivity to aft out-of-CG loading and a relatively nasty upset into a flat spin. Apparently it gained quite an unpleasant reputation with the jump crowd.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19830821-0

Of course, it was even more sensitive to the transport of certain South American agricultural products...

[Milton Shupe]

Sounds like the PIC had the aircraft on auto-pilot and the nose up trim occurred after the stall in trying to correct.

The Lodestar runs a fairly aft CoG anyhow, from 28.5 to 39% MAC is normal range.

[srgalahad]

Yep. Autopilot compensated for weight aft until they exited, then there was a sudden reaction to a significant change in CofG.

BTW, I missed it in an earlier run through "the Sedona Legend" but there's a factory work order which describes the forward light as a "Nose Warning Light"

For anyone contemplating paint projects this is an almost-perfect resource:
http://www.sedonalegendhelenfrye.com/1945.html
and from that page...
http://www.sedonalegendhelenfrye.com/files/LostLodestarWorkorderB.jpg
http://www.sedonalegendhelenfrye.com/files/LostLodestarWorkorder2B.jpg
http://www.sedonalegendhelenfrye.com/files/LostLodestarWorkorder3B.jpg
Doesn't leave much doubt about the details :untroubled:

[Milton Shupe]

WOW! Great find there Rob! :applause:

EDIT: I read other references to the "Warning Light" but do not know what it was used for. Can anyone explain?

[Maarten -]

Can anyone identify this airline?

Swedair Lodestar SE-BZE. The version is Model 18-56. c/n 18-2593. Engines: Two 9 cyl 1200 hp Wright R-1820-71.

Then further in the thread is

National Lodestar N45324. The version is C-60A-1-LO. c/n 18-2260. Engines: Two 9 cyl 1200 hp Wright R-1820-87.

Under this link http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=485370 (http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=485370) the one and only RAF Lodestar (in this thread) and the civil aircraft are:

Royal Air Force Lodestar HK973. Originally delivered to BOAC as G-AGBO, version Model 18-07. RAF designation: Lodestar 1A. c/n 18-2064. Engines: Two 9 cyl 874 hp Pratt & Whitney R-1690-S1E2-G Hornet (same nacelles as Wright R-1820 engines, so without cowl gills).

Union Airways of New Zealand Lodestar ZK-AJM 'Kotare'. The version is Model 18-56. Built a C-60A c/n 18-2555 for USAAF and RNZAF. Engines: Two 9 cyl 1200 hp Wright R-1820-87.

Pacific Alaska Airways Lodestar NC33664. The version is Model 18-10. c/n 18-2079. Ordered in 1941 for Pan American Airways but assigned to Pacific Alaska Airways. Engines: Two 14 cyl 1200 hp Pratt & Whitney R-1830-S1C3G (so nacelles with cowl gills).

Union Airways of New Zealand Lodestar ZK-AOP 'Koropio'. The version is Model 18-56. Built a C-60A c/n 18-2508 for RAAF. Engines: Two 9 cyl 1200 hp Wright R-1820-87.

National Lodestar N15554. The version is Model 18-50. cn 18-2206. Engines: Two 9 cyl 1200 hp Wright Cyclone GR-1820-G202A (similar to R-1820-87).

Union Airways of New Zealand Lodestar ZK-AKX 'Kereru'. The version C-60A-5-LO c/n 18-2382. Built for USAAF, delivered to RNZAF. Engines: Two 9 cyl 1200 hp Wright R-1820-87.

Union Airways of New Zealand Lodestar ZK-ANB 'Karuwai'. The version C-60A-5-LO c/n 18-2383. Built for USAAF, delivered to RNZAF. Engines: Two 9 cyl 1200 hp Wright R-1820-87.

Union Airways of New Zealand Lodestar ZK-AHX 'Karoro'. The version C-60A-5-LO c/n 18-2381. Built for USAAF, delivered to RNZAF. Engines: Two 9 cyl 1200 hp Wright R-1820-87.

Hope this helps (a bit) and isn't too confusing.

Cheers,
Maarten

[Milton Shupe]

Thank you Maarten; that is very helpful :applause: :jump:

[srgalahad]

WOW! Great find there Rob! :applause:

EDIT: I read other references to the "Warning Light" but do not know what it was used for. Can anyone explain?

I've never seen it referenced that way but at a reasonable guess substitute "daytime running light". By day a light source is often more visible than a reflective object and at night would be a clear indication that the dim (and remember, flashing in some cases) red/green lights ahead were not stars but an approaching airplane. If conveniently controlled in the cockpit it could also be used to alert or even identify a flight to persons on the ground.

<looking down at the t-shirt I'm wearing that says: "The light at the end of the tunnel........... may be an approaching train">

[Milton Shupe]

I've never seen it referenced that way but at a reasonable guess substitute "daytime running light". By day a light source is often more visible than a reflective object and at night would be a clear indication that the dim (and remember, flashing in some cases) red/green lights ahead were not stars but an approaching airplane. If conveniently controlled in the cockpit it could also be used to alert or even identify a flight to persons on the ground.

<looking down at the t-shirt I'm wearing that says: "The light at the end of the tunnel........... may be an approaching train">

Thank you for that opinion/observation; it is helpful.

Beware the train ... :-) But the Ides of March was Saturday so good for this month.

[lemonadedrinker]

Hi,
I've been away from my computer ,but read something about Morse signalling lights on the 'roof', but maybe they had them on the front as well?!

Also, a bit about these side windows; an item I read said they were removable, so perhaps not open-able at all, except to take them off altogether if it was icy.

Also a picture of a panel, fairly old fashioned.

5617

Andy.

This is such a long post, and I'm so addled that I don't remember if this has been posted already! If so my apologies.

[Milton Shupe]

Still humpin' trying to get the basic parts and gauges in place and showing a little progress here. The primary focus is just getting panels shaped, sized, positioned, and getting switches, levers, and gauges in the game.

This is the general setup for the civilian cockpit. The C-57 and C-60A military variants will be more austere.

Everything is rather temporary and WIP shown here. Once I get all the "stuff" in place then I can start sizing and positioning gauges. Lots to do yet but wanted to let you know, I am working on it every day, all day. :-)

Fliger is doing magic on the flight model; she flies beautifully.

Thanks to Srgalahad and Maarten for all the research and help so far, and to all of you who contribute.

[Milton Shupe]

I have been busting on the Lodestar 4 VC panels all day and getting all the right gauges sized and positioned and making decent progress there. I am trying to keep the gauges as close to the original as possible, keeping in mind I do not have a gauge programmer anymore but a good inventory of our XML gauges over the years. I need to play with the underside of teh overhead panel a bit but this is getting close.


Then I will move on to other parts of the cockpit to finish that up.


Anyway, here's the current status of the gauges (without bezels at the moment), large and easily readable hi-res for the main and knee panels.


Looking forward to mapping all this for textures maybe next week.


EDIT: and BTW, this is for the civilian version.

[PeteHam]

Looking really great , Thanks Milton. :applause: :applause:

Pete.

[AussieMan]

Looking better all the time mate.

[fliger747]

An amazing amount of work going into this on Milton's part! His progress is quite phenomenal and certainly still at the top of his game.

cheers. Tom

[Maarten -]

An amazing amount of work going into this on Milton's part! His progress is quite phenomenal and certainly still at the top of his game.

cheers. Tom

Hear Hear!:applause::applause:

[Milton Shupe]

The attached, although mod'ed, is the basic gauge layout I am using for the overhead panel of the civilian version of the L-18, and the radios I would like to use so that they will be functional in FS (unlike the original radios).

I am looking for XML radio gauges that look like the ones in the attachment. Does anyone know if such radios exist in freeware from an author who may wish to share them for this project?

Thanks

[lemonadedrinker]

Hi,

The Nord 2501 Noratlas of Jean Michel RENAUX has similar looking Radios to the ones you show. I have just downloaded it (in 4 folders) and will load it into FS9 and take a screenshot to post up.

The L-18 is really coming on :redfire::redfire:

Andy.

[Milton Shupe]

Hi,

The Nord 2501 Noratlas of Jean Michel RENAUX has similar looking Radios to the ones you show. I have just downloaded it (in 4 folders) and will load it into FS9 and take a screenshot to post up.

The L-18 is really coming on :redfire::redfire:

Andy.


Thank you Andy for your efforts. I look forward to that screenshot.

I was able to contact Ken Mitchell about using his VHF gauges he used in the DC-6 panel and received permission.

It will be interesting to have options available to us. :-)

[lemonadedrinker]

Hi,

I don't know anything about permissions or 'owt, but here is a screenshot of the radios!

5716

Andy.

[bpfowler]

Was hoping Ken Mitchell's radios would fit the bill and are available to you for release with this project!

I love them. Installed them in manfreds fs9 c47 when I upgraded her ifr capabilities.

[Willy]

It'll need ADF too.

[Milton Shupe]

Hi,

I don't know anything about permissions or 'owt, but here is a screenshot of the radios!

5716

Andy.

Thanks Andy; those are nice looking radios for sure. :-)

[Milton Shupe]

It'll need ADF too.

So it shall be :-)

[lemonadedrinker]

Hi,

I adding a slightly better picture for you to see if these are any help to you...

5726


Andy.

[Milton Shupe]

Hi,

I adding a slightly better picture for you to see if these are any help to you...

Andy.

Thanks Andy; that is an excellent 2D radio popup. I appreciate your research. :-)

We have decided now on another radio set.

[Milton Shupe]

Finally finished working on the panels and gauges for now and back to some modeling to add the quarter deflector windows. I think these will work out just fine.

[lemonadedrinker]

Hi,

Just glad to be looking helpful:wiggle::wiggle: This airplane is looking so great, whatever type of radios it has in it !

In fact, that Nord 2501 has a light on the nose as well, and that is shown as a taxi-ing light, so perhaps the light on the nose of the L-18 was for the same purpose?

Andy.

[Milton Shupe]

Thanks Andy. According to the manual, the nose light is tagged as a warning light, separately switched.

[nigel richards]

The overhead radio instruments look tailor-made in situ - The VC's really taking on life.
I used to be a 2D panel flyer - thankfully, gone are those miserable days of eyes 12.

Thank You Milton. :medals:

[andersel]

...I used to be a 2D panel flyer - thankfully, gone are those miserable days of eyes 12.

Thank You Milton. :medals:

I used to be a 2D panel flyer - Oh, wait, I'm visually impaired - so I still am.

Thank you, Milton :eagerness:

[mrogers]

:applause: Awesome! the cockpit looks great!

[lemonadedrinker]

Hi,

I've tried some old radio set-ups in the Harpoon, but cannot get any of them to work fully...just the Bendix as fitted. I did post lower down in the Harpoon thread, but am now trying higher up the line :encouragement: .
Is there a change or two to be made to a cfg?

Andy.

[pfflyers]

The problem might be the standby frequency option that the Bendix radios have. If that's it you can try this setup and see if it works better for you.

[Radios] // availiable, standby frequency, has glide slope
Audio.1 = 1
Com.1 = 1, 0
Com.2 = 1, 0
Nav.1 = 1, 0, 1
Nav.2 = 1, 0, 0
Adf.1 = 1
Adf.2 = 1
Transponder.1 = 1
Marker.1 = 1


Hope that helps.

[Milton Shupe]

As SrGalahad wraps up his panel mods, I have been focusing on the Republic XP47's and adding a few more VC touches to the L-18. I suspect in a week, I should be able to map her for textures. That will take 4-5 days then she will be off to the paint shop ... somewhere, or maybe several paint shops. We shall see.

Once we get the mapping done and as the other aspects of the project are fleshing out, I will move the share-able parts to the C-57 and C-60A to modify for the military side, and then they will be ready for mapping.

The PV-1 Vega Ventura benefits from all that work as some share-able parts will then move to her interior and she will be ready for mapping.

That is the game plan and status of this project right now.

Keep the faith :wavey:

[fliger747]

Maarten:

Received the CD via the royal post, many thanks. Good thing too as it's rough sledding once the snow melts.

Regards: Tom

[Maarten -]

Maarten:

Received the CD via the royal post, many thanks. Good thing too as it's rough sledding once the snow melts.

Regards: Tom

My pleasure Tom!

Regards,
Maarten

[glh]

Milton:

Can you share a projected target date for your XP-47s ?? I don't remember seeing one published.

If you would rather not say, I'd understand that also.

Thanks.

[Milton Shupe]

Milton:

Can you share a projected target date for your XP-47s ?? I don't remember seeing one published.

If you would rather not say, I'd understand that also.

Thanks.

glh,

Thank you for your interest. I am preparing the Republic XP47's for beta as we speak and hope to get it out in a few days. If all goes well we should be going Gold by mid-April.

[glh]

Milton:

Thank you.

I have a bit more interest in them than the Harpoon or Lodestar. I prefer to wait for the final model
for the latter two whenever you are done but I have been (patiently) waiting for your XP-47s which
whetted my appetite when you first announced them. You and your associates do such excellent work.

[Motormouse]

/\ Bump!! /\

ttfn

Pete

[Milton Shupe]

LOL MM: Actually aside from preparing the XP47's for beta, I am working on the L-18 Civilian version daily. Just got the panels and gauges assimilated so I can finalize the panel layouts and go hi-res for the upper panel that is stocked full of period radios. Once I have that behind me, I can finalize the little things in the cockpit to flesh it out. Then I will be ready to the complete exterior and interior for textures before sending her to the paint shop.

Tom has the preliminary flight model phase completed.

Still lots to do and we are probably looking at early Summer here for a beta test.

I will be away for 3 weeks in May so that slows things down a bit.

[Milton Shupe]

I would just like to give a "shout out" to some people here for behind the scenes assistance that helps make these projects so much better than they would otherwise be.

Thanks to Maarten who has provided so many great resources and reference material, not just for this project, but nearly every project we work on.

Thanks to SrGalahad "Rob" for his relentless quest for details hidden in the recesses of the Internet and on bookshelves. The materials and info he finds sometimes blows me away. :-) Rob has also invested considerable time researching, suggesting, and finding the proper gauges and radios for the Lodestar cockpit.

There are others who always research and provide inputs early on in these projects, send stuff, provide links, pictures, scale drawings, etc. that tend to go unnoticed publicly. It's this kind of collaboration that helps bring better results on these projects to you, and we sincerely appreciate all your efforts and support.

We are trying to finalize the the Republic XP47's and 72 now and will be back on the Harpoon very soon to prepare it for beta, while I work to finalize the L-18 interior cockpit details and begin mapping the L-18 for textures.

[Maarten -]

Thank you very much, Sir Milton.

[Milton Shupe]

Update: The L-18 project is living and breathing and making headway every day.

Along with significant gauge and radio progress, (thank you Rob), Tom and I have been working everyday to improve the flight model for the commercial airliners. She is such a sweet hand flyer, not sure you will care much about an AP. :-) Tom has nailed the performance on these aircraft with both of the modeled engines. Just trying to tweak out the slow approach and flaps responses to finalize that side of it.

I have broken out the military variants separate from the commercial ones to give us more flexibility in load-outs, weights, configurations, and modeling differences.

Once we get the Republic XP47's and XP-72 out the door, this will get more active.

[t.creed]

thanks for the updates.., really looking forward to the Lockheeds !!

rgds
t creed

[srgalahad]

Update: The L-18 project is living and breathing and making headway every day.

Along with significant gauge and radio progress, (thank you Rob), Tom and I have been working everyday to improve the flight model for the commercial airliners. She is such a sweet hand flyer, not sure you will care much about an AP. :-) Tom has nailed the performance on these aircraft with both of the modeled engines. Just trying to tweak out the slow approach and flaps responses to finalize that side of it.


I haven't vanished, just getting ready for the summer job and getting new staff trained. In the meantime been flying the Lodestar in (mostly) non-destructive testing of Mr. Sperry's autopilot. Yes, the Sperry can be nice and it will work but pilots will have to be aware it's not a K-Tel "set it and forget it" device. It can control heading and pitch but is not intended as more than a 'relief pilot during cruise' to reduce the need for hand-flying for long periods. Particularly, with the trim changes associated with those big Fowler flaps, letting "George" fly the airplane on approach might produce some unpleasant moments! It'll be fine to get you to final approach but after that you'd best be off auto and have a hand/mouse close to the trim wheel/button. ('Realistic' is a word that comes to mind...)

However, as Milton has said, it's a wonderful aircraft to hand-fly so why let some automaton have the fun?

Milton, I should have a draft of the appropriate "Pilots' Notes" for you in the next few days.

R

[jbDC9]

Well, crap! I must have been in a coma for the last few months since I'm a Lodestar junkie and just now stumbled onto this project... beautiful work Milton! Can't wait to see and fly the finished product.

May I suggest one small change to the exterior model? The ADF loop antenna on top of the fuselage appears to be a wee bit too big; I've attached two pics of a C-60 Lodestar with a similar antenna in that location, looks to be a smaller loop...

77177718

BTW, that's me in the right seat landing at the Midland CAF airshow last October. I don't know who took the pics so I can't give credit, but he/she did a nice job. I have roughly 45 hours in this ship and just passed my PIC type ride in it last week, sweeet! It's a nice flying airplane, fast, handles well. It gets kinda funky in pitch when the gear and flaps are in motion (gear down, pitches down; flaps down, pitches up), but you get used to that pretty quickly. No autopilot needed, but thanks! The cockpit pic in post #203 on this thread is this airplane; it's basic. She's based in Houston, TX, owned/operated by the Commemorative Air Force... we're working on getting it set up on the ride program (similar to the touring B-17s), so if you wanna Lodestar ride, it could hopefully happen soon. Bring some $$ though, she's a thirsty beast with those twin Wright R-1820s!

[Milton Shupe]

Well, congrats on the PIC achievement! That's great!

Regarding the loop antenna, apparently there were several sizes over the years, or on different models as my reference pictures used during modeling showed large ones. Anyway I have a big inventory of available antennae so your input is valuable.

Just getting the exterior model prepared for mapping (for textures) now and still some work to do inside on the overhead panel underside.

We have the flight model pretty close to where we want it now displaying the flap and gear characteristics you described. VFE was a bit disconcerting for me as I am used to a faster deployment speed at least for the first notch. Flaps responses were based on the POH or Operating Guide description as attached.

The L-18 will be available with both the Wright and the P&W setup like the C-57 and C-60A.

Thanks for jumping in; we look forward to your involvement. :-)

[jbDC9]

Whoops! I stand corrected on the loop antenna; I didn't know there were various sizes... carry on then!

Regarding the flap deployment speeds, yes indeed the original Lockheed spec for that is just silly slow at 100 kts for flap extension. Luckily, our ship has the partial Learstar mods done; the flap trailing edges are straight across compared to the standard tapered or curved trailing edge... I don't know if there were any structural mods done to the flap tracks, but flap speed are bumped up a bit. The first 10% can extend at 135 kts with the rest going out at 105 kts. The ability for flaps 10% at 135 kts is a huge help in slowing things down in the pattern... but then again, when in doubt, you can toss the gear at 145 kts. That's a huge speedbrake!

Attached is a pic of the V-speed placard riveted to the throttle quadrant; I'm assuming this would only apply to ships with Learstar/Howard mods. With a Google search of the old N9980F reg some interesting pics come up of a previous life as a '50s-'60s corporate transport and a '70s weather research ship.
7736

[Scale Dail]

I would like to thank the team so much for working on this project, the Lockheed L18 Loadstar! My FS era is prewar late 30's and I have hoped for this aircraft for many years and as FS 2004 gets older and older the hope began to fade. The Milton and freinds team have renewed the excitement in FS 2004 for me again! I decided many years ago that FS 2004 is where I would stop. I have so many tweeks and creations in my installation, this is where I plan to stay forever! I don't care how many cars roam the highways of FSX!
Once this project is done I will have no more wishes! By the way my real hobby is building scale RC aircraft. I'll be starting on my own A-20G in the fall of 2015.
Thanks again! I look forward to anything new that comes out for FS2004 especially if its American with American markings! :encouragement:

[Milton Shupe]

Whoops! I stand corrected on the loop antenna; I didn't know there were various sizes... carry on then!

Regarding the flap deployment speeds, yes indeed the original Lockheed spec for that is just silly slow at 100 kts for flap extension. Luckily, our ship has the partial Learstar mods done; the flap trailing edges are straight across compared to the standard tapered or curved trailing edge... I don't know if there were any structural mods done to the flap tracks, but flap speed are bumped up a bit. The first 10% can extend at 135 kts with the rest going out at 105 kts. The ability for flaps 10% at 135 kts is a huge help in slowing things down in the pattern... but then again, when in doubt, you can toss the gear at 145 kts. That's a huge speedbrake!

Attached is a pic of the V-speed placard riveted to the throttle quadrant; I'm assuming this would only apply to ships with Learstar/Howard mods. With a Google search of the old N9980F reg some interesting pics come up of a previous life as a '50s-'60s corporate transport and a '70s weather research ship.
7736

jbDC9, wow, I cannot believe how long its been since we had a post here. Unfortunately, Nigel has had power issues at home for a time but that is now being corrected and we are getting back to full speed again. Trying to finish up the Harpoon now and we will be on the Lodestar next. She's mapped for textures and ready for Nigel to do his magic.

Thank you for posting the V-Speed placard. Where do you have that mounted on your aircraft?

[Milton Shupe]

I would like to thank the team so much for working on this project, the Lockheed L18 Loadstar! My FS era is prewar late 30's and I have hoped for this aircraft for many years and as FS 2004 gets older and older the hope began to fade. The Milton and freinds team have renewed the excitement in FS 2004 for me again! I decided many years ago that FS 2004 is where I would stop. I have so many tweeks and creations in my installation, this is where I plan to stay forever! I don't care how many cars roam the highways of FSX!
Once this project is done I will have no more wishes! By the way my real hobby is building scale RC aircraft. I'll be starting on my own A-20G in the fall of 2015.
Thanks again! I look forward to anything new that comes out for FS2004 especially if its American with American markings! :encouragement:

Scale Dail,

Hello and welcome to the project thread. :wavey:

Thank you for your warm comments. Sadly we had this on hold for a bit while we get back up to speed. With the issues now resolved, maybe we can get some activity going here again.

I do have several variants of the models available in two engine cowling configurations and just a bit more work left in the VC to wrap her up. But even with that we are looking at the new year before release.
I'll keep you informed.

Attached are screen shots of the C-57, C-60A, and the L-18 in their current state.

[jbDC9]

Thank you for posting the V-Speed placard. Where do you have that mounted on your aircraft?

The new Vspeed placard is on top of the throttle quadrant, flat part ahead of the throttles... in the pic below the Garmin GPS is sitting on it, highlighted in red.

http://i58.tinypic.com/1126gpl.jpg

I like your posted screenshots, looking good! Still looks a bit weird with the big Pratts installed since I'm used to seeing the 1820s, but I can get used to it.

[Milton Shupe]

The new Vspeed placard is on top of the throttle quadrant, flat part ahead of the throttles... in the pic below the Garmin GPS is sitting on it, highlighted in red.



I like your posted screenshots, looking good! Still looks a bit weird with the big Pratts installed since I'm used to seeing the 1820s, but I can get used to it.

Thanks. Oh, I will have both engine nacelles available; already done awaiting textures to get started.

[tgibson]

Looking forward to this, especially the AI version. :)

If an AI version of the civil model is not on the table, I could always add LODs...

[Milton Shupe]

Looking forward to this, especially the AI version. :)

If an AI version of the civil model is not on the table, I could always add LODs...

Thank you Tom.

I would be happy to share the gmax source with you if you wish to add LODs. I have no experience doing that and would greatly appreciate it if you would make an AI version available.

The exterior models are completed and mapped and the interiors are mostly done and mapped awaiting some final cockpit changes but enough to do AI models.
Of course, for AI, one might prefer a more AI-friendly mapping.

Whenever you want the source, you may have it.