First ATC directed flight

[OBIO]

And it sucked! Took off from Mansfield Lahm Regional (KMFD) in Mansfield, Ohio in Mike Stone's Curtiss AT-9 Jeep. Planned flight was a straight shot to the OSU airstrip (KOSU)....15.9 minutes of flight time. Took 1.2 hours!!!!! I was diverted to the west due to heavy air traffic by a good 30 miles. Got back on course, had visual of runway 5, was cleared for landing. 1 mile out I was given a go around due to another aircraft coming in. Off to the west I go again. Circle my way around, coming in to the air port 11 miles out. All looks good. Get visual on the runway, cleared for landing on runway 5....and get another go around...reason unknown. Back to the west and circle my way around. Finally get a clear landing approach, touch down and taxi to the parking area. Spin the plane around in a nice tight half circle, kill the engines, back the plane up to the edge of the tarmac. Open the doors and climb out.


Real weather on all the way, 4000 feet flight altitude most of the way, 2900 while on approach and holding. Frame rates solid at 30FPS with all scenery detail, auto gen, cloud effects set to max.

OBIO

[Odie]

I know what you mean, OBIO....but, just think of the extra stick time you got while circling and circling, and ......well, more circling !

I fly with ATC on 99% of my hops and they can make you scratch your head most of the time!

[Lionheart]

LOLOLOL..... :costumes:


Yep..


Sometimes though it works brilliant, I have to tell you OBIO.

Some of the tricks are;
* Once airborn and enroute, following your flightplan (on long flights), you can hold off calling the next controler and just enjoy the flight, then when about 50 to 70 miles out (again on long flights, closer on short hops) then contact the next controler.
* Lower AI traffic so you dont have the go arounds, though it is nice cruising alongside traffic.
* Be fast on changing altitude and headings. With some airports, the ATC will be quite challenging. It will sometimes be better to have AP going so you can just change headings and Alt. When you get really good, you can bring in a Lear manually, but dang, it will leave you with sweaty palms, racing heartrate, sweat doused shirt, panting, and the need to take a brake for a while, lol...


Hopefully AI traffic control will be much better in FS11. They need to have AI ATC realise that a Cesssna 150 shouldnt have a pattern 30 miles out. It should know the difference by a heavy and a small plane, perhaps going off of the parking code or model width measurement (which is used for parking planes to begin with) so that it can either put you in the huge pattern or the small plane pattern.



I remember doing the first AI ATC IFR flight in the Concorde in FS2002, from London to Malpensa (I think, long time ago). Man.. What a brilliant flight. However, I didnt have to keep calling the same centers over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.................. arrghh.. :banghead:


Bill

[srgalahad]

I'm going to assume that you did the flight under an IFR flight plan to get all that vectoring. In that case, MSFS ATC will be a pain because the 'controller' isn't very efficient or creative :help: - they have no concept of "pushing tin"!
Assuming the weather is VFR there are a couple of options when that happens:

-After the first go-around, cancel IFR, switch to the Tower Freq and as for a full stop. Now YOU have more control over the sequencing/spacing

- Be prepared to make lots of room once you have traffic.... the AI stuff will get quite slow on final a fair way back from the runway and VERY slow once down... and impossibly slow to exit the runway so no crowding!

- If there is a parallel runway that is suitable, request it if it looks like there's less traffic.

On a visual approach the spacing given will be about the same (never enough) and then YOU are responsible for making room. One trick I found is that you can do "S-turns" or a 360 on final for spacing and often make it work (keep the circle small). If another a/c has been sequenced behind you, HE will get the go-around when he chews up your tail :faint:
The Go-around criterion is approximately: if you are #2 and get within one mile of the threshold before the preceding a/c has cleared the runway and gotten instruction to contact ground, you will get the missed approach.

[Firebar]

That bit with....

- G-BRNM this is London Centre, contact London Centre on.....

or another annoying one was crossing the english channel:

- G-BRNM this is London Centre contact Calais Centre on..... and then immediately G-BRNM this is Calais Centre contact London Centre on.....

....is really annoying, why don't the FS controllers sound like the ones at Farnborough (absolutely knackered)?

I Stick to Boscombe Down area, they never have any ATC in real life either (pure bliss, and you can see those runways for miles).

[magoo]

There's a freeware program that I use called AISmooth. It runs parrallel to FS, and helps maintain relatively realistic spacing between AI flights. There's an option to have AISmooth's auxillery programer's voice on the radio along with the FS default, or it can run silently.

This helps a lot with AI flights bunching up and crowding in an unrealistic manner.

Now...this may not be an issue described above, but it's a neat free augmentation that I never fly without.

Find it at Avsim, for FS9 filename: aismooth_v111a.zip

.....FS9 and FSX: aismooth_v120.zip

[srgalahad]

Now...this may not be an issue described above, but it's a neat free augmentation that I never fly without.

.....FS9 and FSX: aismooth_v120.zip

:amen:

[Firebar]

I don't really have an issue with FS AI, I just find it amusing how shipper all the controllers sound, especially as whenever I've been in the air in Farnborough LARS the controller sounds knackered. Possibly something to do with it being one of the busiest bit of UK airspace.

Sounds an awsome program, especially when flying test circuits. It gets annoying when some tubeliner gets in your way. Sounds like the very think that would sort OBIO's problem.

[harleyman]

I avoid ATC at all costs till I'm about 30 miles out,then call for approval to land...I sneak in where I need to ,then drop flaps and keep back...If I'm short on time and I get the go around,I throw caution to the wind and put her down anyway.....

When ATC tells me I did not have permission to land,I give them several consealed gestures from inside the cockpit,well out of their site....LOL

:amen:

[Lionheart]

I avoid ATC at all costs till I'm about 30 miles out,then call for approval to land...I sneak in where I need to ,then drop flaps and keep back...If I'm short on time and I get the go around,I throw caution to the wind and put her down anyway.....

When ATC tells me I did not have permission to land,I give them several consealed gestures from inside the cockpit,well out of their site....LOL

:amen:

lolol.... :costumes:


Thats a typical 'low stress' flight for me. :d



Bill

[harleyman]

I hate getting redirected...And its a sim..I really don't have to listen to them....LOL :woot:

[rayrey10]

FS ATC also makes you wait until the aircraft that's on the runway completely exits. That is not true in real life, right?

Just what I have observed when landing at busy airports such as Atlanta, St Louis, LA, Miami etc.

Ray

[srgalahad]

FS ATC also makes you wait until the aircraft that's on the runway completely exits. That is not true in real life, right?

Just what I have observed when landing at busy airports such as Atlanta, St Louis, LA, Miami etc.

Ray

Or Podunk Hollow... the standard is "has Cleared the runway, will be clear by the time the succeeding a/c crosses the threshold, or will be sufficiently far down the runway that no likelihood of collision exists" .... umm, a bit more intelligent and discerning than the guts of a $49 flight sim. FYI, the US system has the phrase "Cleared to land, #2 (or #3 or 4) behind xxx on final." In most of the rest of the world, you aren't cleared to land until the controller knows the preceding aircraft will meet the above criteria.

Go-arounds are inevitable and a pilot who says he never had to probably never flew around traffic .. chit happens -- a/c in front blows a tire, gets confused about exits, forgets to lower gear, following a/c is too fast, distracted... all of the above and IFR or VFR doesn't matter. That's why it's practiced in primary training.

The FS ATC could have been a bit more 'generous', and then would teach bad habits about spacing. Also, we have a hard time perceiving distance in FS. The worst culprit in this case tho' is the terminally slow taxi/exit speed and airport configs in FS. AI aircraft have limited parameters and no control over speed, when to turn, where to turn.

Rule of thumb? 2 miles behind on final for every 50 knots of your final approach speed might save most go-arounds... and watch out for AI traffic passing you or running over you ...

Rob