Water Effects Dilema

[gman5250]

I've had FSX Water Configurator for quite a while but have not used it since I went to REX and ORBX environments. Two days ago I used Water Configurator to change the surface texture. Bad call.

Water Configurator apparently put a new shader into the system that I cannot remove. All of my water textures everywhere have a chrome blue looking overlay. If I set FSX Water Effects to none everything displays correctly, when I enable any effects I get the results you see in the screen shots.

Screens shots description: KMRY

FSX default on left with my photo real texture showing on right. Note the strange "masking" in the area outside the break line in the photo real with Water Effects enabled.
I used a standard tiff. black mask with a 5 pixel feathered edge for this. It has been displaying fine until I used the Water Configurator "glassy water" setting. When I applied this setting all of my water went to this very high contrast turquoise look.

This looks to me like a second layer of mask is conflicting with the FSX default water mask. Note, this anomaly is consistent with every water feature in FSX, not limited to my photo real or any one specific location.

Now I cannot return to my previous settings. I have tried all of the restore options in Water Configurator...none of which worked. I have since un-installed WC. Still can't restore my original FSX.

Any help would be appreciated. I don't want do do a re-install of FSX.



FSX Water Effects off:
92585

FSX Water Effects High 1
92586

[Roger]

All I can see is the line between the photo real and default. That would be a deal breaker for me.

[heywooood]

did you save your REX textures when you installed or updated REX?...you could try a restore there

[gman5250]

did you save your REX textures when you installed or updated REX?...you could try a restore there

Yeah...I've rebooted my REX textures and tried various settings in the REX menu. All display correctly i.e. surface chop, wave height etc, but with this intense turquoise overlay. It's like this additional mask or layer is lurking in my shaders folder(s) and laying on top of anything I work with.

I'm working with the current REX update which has been working perfectly until I used the FSX Water Configurator. For the moment I'm stuck with this weird overlay.

Here's a shot of my water before the problem occurred. Settings: FSX Water Effects High Max
Note the natural color compared to the turquoise in the above shots.
92587

[gman5250]

All I can see is the line between the photo real and default. That would be a deal breaker for me.

KMRY is a WIP I have been picking at for a while. The tile you see to the right is high def PR over the default FSX, so the demarcation line is to be expected at this stage of development. If I turn on my Blue Sky PR the demarcation line is less visible. I haven't applied a blend mask to my PR yet until I finish the tiles. The interesting thing is that the water mask should be a soft blend, but with the anomaly I am experiencing, the water mask has this hard contrast superimposed over the top of my PR masks. Weird.....:isadizzy:

[gman5250]

Edit:

Also have now noticed that my night textures on my polished skins are almost black. They weren't that way before.

This is looking like a "shader" issue...all help is appreciated.

[Paul Anderson]

I suppose some with REX and never used FSWC could zip and send you their shaders folder. (sorry, I'm out on both counts)

[gman5250]

I suppose some with REX and never used FSWC could zip and send you their shaders folder. (sorry, I'm out on both counts)

That's definitely a fallback. I can go to my FSX disks and retrieve the original shaders and replace my malfunctioning files. PITA...lol

[kilo delta]

This might be worth a shot if it is indeed a shader issue... http://fsxtimes.wordpress.com/2011/07/11/clean-up-shader-cache/.

[Sundog]

Have you tried installing your water configurator into a "test" folder so you can see what it installs and where(what path) it installs it? If so, you can then go find those shaders in FSX and delete them.

[greenie]

I have given away FSWC a long time ago . I have also spent maybe a couple of years messing about with different textures from REX . I now use default sea and sky as a good allround interpretation . Whatever one uses there's always a time and place where you think you need something different

[orionll]

As kilo delta mentioned, you can try clearing the shader cache. Otherwise, I don't quite see the issue. The only thing I see is the lack of use of land/water or blend masks on the photoscenery.

[gman5250]

As kilo delta mentioned, you can try clearing the shader cache. Otherwise, I don't quite see the issue. The only thing I see is the lack of use of land/water or blend masks on the photoscenery.

I did the shader cache reload...no joy.

The image above has no land blend mask applied, thus the hard line between PR and FSX default. The water mask is definitely applied and was working beautifully before I began to experience the anomaly. When in Water Effects/High/Max I had a typical deep green FSX CG blending into the PR with the typical animated surface disturbance plus the animated waves washing over.
It was quite seamless.

Note in the comparison screenshot (#2) FSX is now displaying a hard transition from the breaker line Photo Real to the FSX Computer Generated as though there were no blend mask.
This intense turquoise/chrome effect is what has replaced what was previously a natural deep green. I haven't touched the bgl files for this location or any other. The anomaly is global also, indicating that a shader or effect has been changed that affects all the water in FSX. At this time, all my water....everywhere is shiny chrome turquoise.

When this first appeared, I had run FSWC, selected "Glass Water" and applied in FSX. When I switched from cockpit view to outside straight down I observed a brief flash and the "chrome" looking water had replaced my normal deep blue/green animated choppy water effects.

Hope this info helps...and I appreciate everyone's input on this one. I'm still chasing it on my end, but it looks like I'm heading for a FSX reload...puke....

[gradyhappyg]

92597
Here try swapping these out may not fix the entire issue but could give you a starting point to work from.
Be sure to rename your originals and not overwrite just in case my hunch is wrong.

[gman5250]

92597
Here try swapping these out may not fix the entire issue but could give you a starting point to work from.
Be sure to rename your originals and not overwrite just in case my hunch is wrong.

Gave her a run...no joy.
I had a water color change but still had the hard masking effect. Thanks for taking the time to zip that up and post it. I appreciate it.

Shut down reloaded original shaders and booted back in....now it's this.

This big gray thing where there should be an ocean is the culprit. Somewhere there is a secondary mask competing with FSX default shaders. I can reload the whole frickin' thing faster than I can isolate and chase this bugger out. I got a big old conflict somewhere...time to clean house I guess.

92598

[gman5250]

A final comment.

Thanks guys for all the help, I'm throwing in the towel on this one. Reload FSX...again.

My final thoughts.

I've been working with graphics software since Corel 2 beginning in 1993. I've worked in every platform since Windows first arrived and numerous incarnations of Photoshop along with countless other software along the way. By 2001 I had built a company and a million dollar Xeikon, 5 station, purpose built printer producing vehicle graphics for 3M. We ran the Xeikons (2) out of a clean room using G5 Macs and a purpose built PC via my own handwritten codes integrating the servers and printers. I know my way around graphics and software.

Currently I attempt to earn my way through life within the constricting shackles of Windows 7. For the record I have never worked with a more crash prone, time wasting, hair pulling pile of male bovine excrement as this platform.

During the course of this thread....all day... I have had numerous crashes of FSX, peripheral programs and software.
I've been compelled to re-boot Windows 7 no less than four times. My system is clean, up to date and free of all malware.
My new install of FSX Booster 2013 which, by the way is completely awesome, cannot run because Windows 7 is preventing the user interface from displaying. This also happens with ORBX FTX Central and others regularly too. It's not the fault of the issuing companies...it's Windows.

I boot FSX and crash dozens of times a day, my keyboard mysteriously ceases to function or gets stuck in an endless string of .......... that cannot be terminated short of rebooting Windows, files disappear, files change while I watch helplessly, work is lost....it goes on and on.

The previously offered (above) .zip file downloaded fine, but when I extracted it the new folder failed to materialize on my desktop. Hit refresh....oh now it's there. This happens constantly as though there is a digital .50 cal bouncing around inside my system full time taking out anything in it is path.

I have lost countless hours of dev time to the endless, inevitable crashes, or failures to save files, or the files I saved being not the files I saved when I re-open them. In Windows 7 I basically tap dance on a rock slide...all day...every day and I've had enough.

This is categorically the worst platform I have ever had the misfortune of ATTEMPTING to be productive in. The only way to describe my experience in this platform would be compared to walking through a field of IED's, blindfolded, with magnets in the soles of my boots. About 90 percent of my work gets blown up, and I have to go back and fix and fix and fix...all day every day.

It's pathetic. Hey, Gates....when you finish playing "rule the world" with your ridiculous vaccines, Monsanto delusions and backroom glad handing with Zuckerberg....go back and repair this impotent turd.

End of rant
Please forgive my blunt meanderings gentlemen,

Gman

[tommieboy]

I know this really sucks, but if I had all those issues, I'd reformat my hard drive......:pop4:

Tommy

[TheGrunt]

A final comment.

Thanks guys for all the help, I'm throwing in the towel on this one. Reload FSX...again.

My final thoughts.

I've been working with graphics software since Corel 2 beginning in 1993. I've worked in every platform since Windows first arrived and numerous incarnations of Photoshop along with countless other software along the way. By 2001 I had built a company and a million dollar Xeikon, 5 station, purpose built printer producing vehicle graphics for 3M. We ran the Xeikons (2) out of a clean room using G5 Macs and a purpose built PC via my own handwritten codes integrating the servers and printers. I know my way around graphics and software.

Currently I attempt to earn my way through life within the constricting shackles of Windows 7. For the record I have never worked with a more crash prone, time wasting, hair pulling pile of male bovine excrement as this platform.

During the course of this thread....all day... I have had numerous crashes of FSX, peripheral programs and software.
I've been compelled to re-boot Windows 7 no less than four times. My system is clean, up to date and free of all malware.
My new install of FSX Booster 2013 which, by the way is completely awesome, cannot run because Windows 7 is preventing the user interface from displaying. This also happens with ORBX FTX Central and others regularly too. It's not the fault of the issuing companies...it's Windows.

I boot FSX and crash dozens of times a day, my keyboard mysteriously ceases to function or gets stuck in an endless string of .......... that cannot be terminated short of rebooting Windows, files disappear, files change while I watch helplessly, work is lost....it goes on and on.

The previously offered (above) .zip file downloaded fine, but when I extracted it the new folder failed to materialize on my desktop. Hit refresh....oh now it's there. This happens constantly as though there is a digital .50 cal bouncing around inside my system full time taking out anything in it is path.

I have lost countless hours of dev time to the endless, inevitable crashes, or failures to save files, or the files I saved being not the files I saved when I re-open them. In Windows 7 I basically tap dance on a rock slide...all day...every day and I've had enough.

This is categorically the worst platform I have ever had the misfortune of ATTEMPTING to be productive in. The only way to describe my experience in this platform would be compared to walking through a field of IED's, blindfolded, with magnets in the soles of my boots. About 90 percent of my work gets blown up, and I have to go back and fix and fix and fix...all day every day.

It's pathetic. Hey, Gates....when you finish playing "rule the world" with your ridiculous vaccines, Monsanto delusions and backroom glad handing with Zuckerberg....go back and repair this impotent turd.

End of rant
Please forgive my blunt meanderings gentlemen,

Gman
There is something wrong with your system, badly. Fault HD controller or something is corrupting your data. You may like or not the Windows, but all that you described is definitely not normal.

[lazarus]

Yikes!
All I can report is W7 has been the most stable, quickest windows system I've ever had yet with respect to graphics programs; though I don't have or use photoshop. FSX has been ultra stable, and no conflicts with FSWC or Shade. Never tried REX. I think I've done 2 repair runs after running removal tools-one was FD6! but the repair runs worked perfectly. Knock on wood. There seem to have been many instances of REX unfavorable interactions reported in every forum over the years.
Hope you get it sorted though. I gave up on FSX on a VISTA machine, and it had similar problems with FSX to the woes you describe.

[gman5250]

Thanks gentlemen,

I've slept on it and calmed down a bit, although the comments about Gates still stand...no retraction.

The problem I am experiencing is not related to FSPS, REX, ORBX or any third party add on. This is related to the operating system and the MS trend towards bling and away from functionality. I went to a friends house to help her with a Windows 8 issue recently and came away convinced that W7 will be the last MS platform I will ever deal with.

I will be building a dedicated work station/gaming system in the near future. I'll hand pick the components upon careful research and assemble the machine to my spec. Currently I am working on a relatively new store bought IBuyPower machine that probably is not up to the requirements that I place upon it.

My software woes are consistent and do not specifically target FSX based software. Initially the platform was relatively stable and reliable, but following numerous automatic updates (that I finally disabled) things have degraded badly. More recently I allowed an upgrade of IE and things got really bad.

My observation is that all of the profiling/marketing algorithms, coupled with PRISM and the NSA friendly code that has been introduced to our systems has compromised performance and code integrity to the point of rendering the original OS useless. IMHO, and I will refrain from entering into a political discourse on this forum.

Reformat: Two years ago an unsolicited drive reformat/partition by an professional computer tech cost me ten years of intense research, data and photos. I lost everything in my archives...most of which was unrecoverable due to the sensitive nature of the data.

Reinstall: A reinstall of Windows 7, a memory upgrade and a newer vid card could possibly fix this system...I'll probably do that when I build the new machine. One thing is a certainty...my new work station will incorporate a serious firewall and filter out/target all un-invited guests.

Today I'll back up my stuff and re-load FSX. It's a chore for sure, but I'm sure will be well worth the effort. I'll streamline a few things, eliminate some others and get back to creating airplane art, sceneries and flying.

Cheers gentlemen and thank you for your kind comments.

I need to get back to work.

G

[napamule]

You are right on concerning getting a new rig, hand picking all the parts and putting it together yourself. I haven't bought a 'Bundle' PC from retail since 1980's. I also had Corel 2 (still have the floppys). I now have a ($1200.00) i7, 2600K, with Asus MB, and a Saphire Radeion HD-5770 1Gb DDR5 and FSX (locked at 30 FPS) gives me 30.1 FPS 99% of the time. I see 29.0 FPS occasionally. No stutter, no tearing. I run XP Sp2. I did the Jesus tweak. I MIGHT get Windows 7 PRO (ONLY version I would trust) or Windows 8 'Upgraded' version next year-maybe....

I had a Pentium 4 (3.2 Ghz) before, but the MB/video card was a bottle neck (which might be your problem?). MB chip set drivers and latest video cards are 'key'. Does that make FSX run 'faster'? Maybe not, but things work a lot smoother with less crashes. Having 7200 rpm hard drives helps. Having 6 to 8 Mb of Ram helps.

I wonder how many FSX simmers can qualify as 'IT Pro' technicians? Almost a requirement to run FSX, or so it seems. And I don't run any add-ons, by the way. Too risky. I want performance, not eye candy. Good luck with upgrade-sound like you sure NEED it.
Chuck B
Napamule

[gman5250]

You are right on concerning getting a new rig, hand picking all the parts and putting it together yourself. I haven't bought a 'Bundle' PC from retail since 1980's. I also had Corel 2 (still have the floppys). I now have a ($1200.00) i7, 2600K, with Asus MB, and a Saphire Radeion HD-5770 1Gb DDR5 and FSX (locked at 30 FPS) gives me 30.1 FPS 99% of the time. I see 29.0 FPS occasionally. No stutter, no tearing. I run XP Sp2. I did the Jesus tweak. I MIGHT get Windows 7 PRO (ONLY version I would trust) or Windows 8 'Upgraded' version next year-maybe....

I had a Pentium 4 (3.2 Ghz) before, but the MB/video card was a bottle neck (which might be your problem?). MB chip set drivers and latest video cards are 'key'. Does that make FSX run 'faster'? Maybe not, but things work a lot smoother with less crashes. Having 7200 rpm hard drives helps. Having 6 to 8 Mb of Ram helps.

I wonder how many FSX simmers can qualify as 'IT Pro' technicians? Almost a requirement to run FSX, or so it seems. And I don't run any add-ons, by the way. Too risky. I want performance, not eye candy. Good luck with upgrade-sound like you sure NEED it.
Chuck B
Napamule

I'm running a lot of stuff for sure. ORBX, REX, super high res PR and airplanes like the CS 777. That will bring any system to it's knees. I'm making 30 FPS and up on average despite the load. Tipella takes me down to 20, but when I built CBB7 I took the design to the max.

My card will stumble on occasion, but I can cure that with the tweaks. I can't make a quality video, the machine just wont give me smooth performance there.

My new project is going to require me to work in Photoshop at 30,000 x 20,000 pixels. The high res satellite image work is taxing on the system and I'm going to need to make high def video.

The purpose built machine is going to be mandatory.
I'd appreciate any comments on systems from others who are working in a high demand environment.
If I'm going to spend real money...I want to be well researched first.

[GrinningJester]

I'm running a lot of stuff for sure. ORBX, REX, super high res PR and airplanes like the CS 777. That will bring any system to it's knees. I'm making 30 FPS and up on average despite the load. Tipella takes me down to 20, but when I built CBB7 I took the design to the max.

My card will stumble on occasion, but I can cure that with the tweaks. I can't make a quality video, the machine just wont give me smooth performance there.

My new project is going to require me to work in Photoshop at 30,000 x 20,000 pixels. The high res satellite image work is taxing on the system and I'm going to need to make high def video.

The purpose built machine is going to be mandatory.
I'd appreciate any comments on systems from others who are working in a high demand environment.
If I'm going to spend real money...I want to be well researched first.

First of all; There is absolutely nothing wrong with Windows 7. There is obviously something very wrong with your system that is making you believe W7 is the culprit.
The OS is considered to be one of the best (if not the best) available.


My observation is that all of the profiling/marketing algorithms, coupled with PRISM and the NSA friendly code that has been introduced to our systems has compromised performance and code integrity to the point of rendering the original OS useless. IMHO, and I will refrain from entering into a political discourse on this forum.

I'm sorry gman, I don't mean to be rude; but this notion is laughable at best. It's a tinfoil hat conspiracy-esque statement that has no basis in reality.
Opting out of Windows updates actually makes you more susceptible to attacks, ESPECIALLY those of a "first-day" variety.

Considering what you've written about your past issues, I would run a chkdsk on your primary partition(s) and HDD's to check if you have a bad HDD, before jumping to conclusions.

With regards to a high-demand machine; it really doesn't require much research. Based on your vague requirements;

i7 4770K
GTX 770
32GB RAM
1x 256GB SSD for primary partition and image editing
1x Your existing 2TB HDD (If not faulty..)
S1155 Motherboard based on your chipset of choice.

I work in VisualFX and would manage with such a machine for very complex scenes and tasks (involving millions of particles, krakatoa/fumeFX/Afterburn/VRay/ThinkingParticles/etc.)

[gman5250]

I'm sorry gman, I don't mean to be rude; but this notion is laughable at best. It's a tinfoil hat conspiracy-esque statement that has no basis in reality.

Sir. If you don't mean to be rude, dismissive or condescending...then don't be.

We all maintain a high level of respect for one another on this forum. We may not share others opinions in certain areas, but we attempt to be civil to one another. I have a 30 year background of deep research, with vetted documentation on many topics. I see many comments on this site that I may not agree with but, as I have the highest respect for everyone here, I keep my opinions to myself unless asked directly. To date...no one has asked for my opinion.

Insinuating that I am a "tinfoil hat" style stereotype personality assumes that I am somehow impaired, not as informed as you are, or that you know more about my background than I.
I quite assure you...this is not the case.
I am well researched, documented, and information in my possession is thoroughly vetted and backed up in hard copy.

Perhaps you can reinforce your statement with hard proof that data mining, market and personality profiling is not taking place via the internet.
Perhaps then, you can explain to me how Google knows more about what I am thinking than I do?
What do you think is done with this mined data...? It is certainly not kept private nor confidential...this fact is a matter of record.
Also, who do you believe takes advantage of all of this mined data?

I appreciate your comments and input sir, but unless you can back up your statement with hard fact I would not offer your own opinion as such.

This is all I will say on this issue in this forum. If you wish to pursue this course of discussion I will respond to your PM.

[heywooood]

back on topic fellers, opinions are like other belongings, only the owner has the implicit right to handle them or modify them in any way
assessing or criticising another mans beliefs is like trespassing...

so Gman - have you looked at Tom's Hardware website forums for build suggestions? - its a good place to start. You can reference the programs and capabilities you are looking for and get terrific advice

[gman5250]

back on topic fellers, opinions are like other belongings, only the owner has the implicit right to handle them or modify them in any way
assessing or criticising another mans beliefs is like trespassing...

so Gman - have you looked at Tom's Hardware website forums for build suggestions? - its a good place to start. You can reference the programs and capabilities you are looking for and get terrific advice


I'll take a look for sure. Since my system is so task specific I'll be looking for setups that others are using successfully.
Opinions...yep, copy that.

[gman5250]

I checked my hardware...all healthy as an ox. Re-loaded FSX...it took two tries, the first cached some files I didn't want, so I started with a clean virgin install. I organized quite a few things and coupled with FSX Booster 2013, which I find much more friendly than the original. Here is a screen of the same water shots with the install running healthy. I can't say what or where the bug was residing, but I am pleased with the result.

Screen description, KMRY bay with FSX default scenery on the left and my high def photo real tile on the right. No land blend mask. Water mask 50% gray blending up to the breaker line. Note the water on the FSX default is using stock water mask.
On the PR, the REX animated chop is flowing right up to the water mask border, FSX breaker animations are correct from that point to the sand and the water color as it should be. Compare this to the chrome turquoise from my original screens and you will see where my anomaly originally was. If anyone can pinpoint the cause of the display anomaly I would be keen to know what caused that problem for my further reference.

I appreciate everyone's input, both positive and negative. Thank you gentlemen.

92684