The definitive P-51 Collection

[fsxar177]

Evening gents.
Purchased a new product last week...and so I thought I'd just share a little rant..
With so many options available today, for the flight-sim Mustang enthusiast to indulge in, It may be difficult choosing which one may be right for you? For years, flight-sim developers have replicated the mustang, it seems over, and over. One might ask, what's the difference? And is this 'just another mustang'?

Being an enthusiast myself, and also having the fortune of owning nearly every P-51 replication to make it's way through to FS9 and FSX, I would like to make a few comments regarding these:

The A2A Simulations Military, and Civilian P-51D's are a fine example of true craftsmanship. The 'Accu-sim' experience is hard to beat, and the coding involved with such a piece of software is incredible. A Detailed flight model, as well as a detailed, and refined visual model, add to the great value of these add-on's. Having recently made my own personal improvements to certain aspects of the aircraft, and have found much pleasure in making the A2A pony a frequent flyer in my stable.

However, being of a pessimistic sort, I find myself crying for realism, and history, even within the confines of FSX. It's then I find myself turning back to my Warbirdsim stable mates. The difficulty of the flight model, brings my focus back to the pilots seat, and the stunning accuracy of each of the models, grips my inner-mustang.

I most recently purchased the latest in the 'D' model packages from Warbirdsim. The "Mustang Tales" package. I must say, this is the definitive P-51 collection. never before have I seen so much variety, within one single add-on. Many multiple models, and variations, complete with historically accurate cockpits, and every possible detail. Each pony even has a pre-set flight, to put the pilot into the correct place corresponding to the background of each particular bird. This is a must for any Mustang person, and my personal recommendation for anyone who would buy 'just one' Mustang for FSX.

Most of the details of this package have been shared here on the forums, so I'll only add a few screenshots from my latest rendezvous. - Enjoy!

http://www.fsxairsports.com/teasers/mt1.jpg
http://www.fsxairsports.com/teasers/mt2.jpg
http://www.fsxairsports.com/teasers/mt3.jpg
http://www.fsxairsports.com/teasers/mt4.jpg
http://www.fsxairsports.com/teasers/mt5.jpg
http://www.fsxairsports.com/teasers/mt6.jpg
http://www.fsxairsports.com/teasers/mt7jpg

[fsxar177]

http://www.fsxairsports.com/teasers/mt8.jpg
http://www.fsxairsports.com/teasers/mt9.jpg
http://www.fsxairsports.com/teasers/mt10.jpg
http://www.fsxairsports.com/teasers/mt11.jpg
http://www.fsxairsports.com/teasers/mt12.jpg
http://www.fsxairsports.com/teasers/mt13.jpg

[stansdds]

:applause::applause::applause:

[Stickshaker]

Interesting read, FXRAR, but why is the flight model of WBS more realistic than that of A2A because it is more difficult?

[MudMarine]

When I can afford it, it's mine!

[IanHenry]

Have you tried the DCS Mustang? Ian.

[fsxar177]

Interesting read, FXRAR, but why is the flight model of WBS more realistic than that of A2A because it is more difficult?


Without unintentionally stepping on anyone's toes;

From the PIREPS I have read, various other articles, and first-hand discussion with current, and previous P-51 owners and pilots, I have a small idea of what the Mustang might be like to fly. The WBS flight model accomplishes this for me, in several ways, which I'll detail below. As a side note, it may be worthy to understand that the A2A Mustang was in fact more difficult, and felt much more realistic prior to the accu-sim core update, which was released just prior to their civilian Mustang.

Warm-up and taxi:
A2A: During warm-up, it is very difficult to bring the engine up to proper warm-up specs, and run a check, because there is an internal error with the thrust of the propeller. During your propeller check, there is a point in which there is a burst of thrust, (around 700hp), which lunges the aircraft forward, beyond the strength of the toe-brakes.

WBS: I can perform my pre-flight warm-up successfully. Also, the ground handling characteristics are very true to life, with a custom .xml written to allow the accurate use of the tailwheel lock/unlock system used in the P-51.

Take-off roll:
A2A: Point this down the runway, pin her ears back, and count... That's about all it takes to get her off the ground without incident. Very little feel for that big Merlin out front.

WBS: Much attention must be placed on the task at hand during take-off roll. When the V-12 comes to life, you'd better know what's going on, or you won't be on the runway for long...you'll be wrecked off to the side someplace. Care must be given to center, and lock the tailwheel (stick in lap) upon taxi out, and line-up. I like to keep the stick in my lap until around 45mph. When I feel that the tail wants to come up, I let it come up, and this allows me to not only see, but use effect rudder authority to control the aircraft. Roll-out just a bit faster, and keep from being in that ever-dangerous low-speed situation, in which the stall is quite violent. Particularly when dirty (gears down)
Flight:
A2A: Very fun to fly, and very fast. (too fast..I mean, this thing screams. Doesn't bleed very much speed during high-g maneuvers either) Somewhat arcade-like, but not overly so. You can run at full emergency power for a long time before you'll notice anything wrong,
WBS: Crisp controls, but you've gotta stay on the stick. It won't fly itself. Be very careful not to run the engine too hard. Prolonged use of full military power, and within minutes, damage will begin to occur. Keep her away from the high-speed stalls, which can be quite ugly, and difficult to recover from. And keep her away from flying too slow. Speeds come in right on the charts, at various altitudes, and configurations.

Landing:
A2A: Once again, it will pretty much land itself. Don't worry about bouncing either, because she's very sticky. There's even aileron control effectiveness way down around 75mph... Bring her in, point it straight..can't fail.
WBS: Handle the beast wisely. Landing a P-51 is the tricky part. Plan your pattern and approach, and be sure to become comfortable with those big flaps in all ranges. Also, fly her with the gear down a bit, and get a grip for the extra drag they produce. You'll want her trimmed accordingly, before dropping the gear on your final. Use precision, and keep your speeds up. If you have enough runway, come in a little hotter your first few times, until you are comfortable with the un-forgiving low speed flight. I like wheel landings, but don't drop too hard. She will bounce, which can put you in a difficult position, not being able to see, and having limited control effectiveness at those speeds. Be prepared to add some throttle (not full) if you need to correct, and make a go-around. Don't give it full power immediately on a go-around, ease into the throttle. Practice, practice...you'll get it. Read some PIREPS, particularly from the 60's and 70's, and articles that discussed new pilots flying the mustang. There wasn't any Stallion 51 in those days, and many low-hour mustang pilots were killed during their final approach and landing.


I love both products, and this is just my own opinion of the flight characteristics.
Hope this helps fellas...

Joseph

[txnetcop]

I have both and like you I love both aircraft. I have had every Mustang out there and these two are the cat's pajamas. I don't know if it was my computer vs yours, but I did find the A2A Mustang very immersible and you really had to stay on the stick(mine is a force-feedback Saitek) to walk away from any landing. Take-off was just as difficult with full-realism and my stick with the A2A and Warbirdsim model. I experienced the same effect with Warbirdsim's Mustang and A2A as well in the air, both were simply amazing experiences. I have never flown the real thing but I know that Dudley Henriques of A2A has thousands of hours in a Mustang. I would be hard-pressed to choose one over the other. I do like the various cockpit configurations of Warbirdsim's Mustang...WOW! It reminds of the detail that Lionheart Creations puts into their aircraft...no two planes are alike. By the way, have you tried the Spitfire by A2A. I am pretty sure I have every Spitfire made by anyone and there are some really fine flight models that are extremely realistic. Thanks for posting this...
Ted

[ryanbatc]

I'm a new A2A user and don't have the WBS version. But I can tell you my experiences are quite the opposite of what you describe.

Takeoffs need specific and touchy rudder input to stay on centerline. The torque is there the moment power is applied. Landings are tricky and the plane will easily bounce for me if I have too much descent rate on TD... the rollout require pedal work all the way to the ramp..

Just my experiences.

[Scratch]

I need another Mustang like I need another hole in my head, but dang it after that review you just knocked me off the fence. I don't see anybody surpassing A2A, but I do admire the quality in the WBS birds, they are simply gorgeous.
Thanks for the review and quit gripping your inner Mustang, I hear that will make you go blind:icon_lol:

[fsxar177]

I need another Mustang like I need another hole in my head, but dang it after that review you just knocked me off the fence. I don't see anybody surpassing A2A, but I do admire the quality in the WBS birds, they are simply gorgeous.
Thanks for the review and quit gripping your inner Mustang, I hear that will make you go blind:icon_lol:


Well, I'll not try to hard, ha!

Actually, I'm working on a complete skin for a historic, and exotic bird, which will be applied to this bird. It may be the most difficult livery to represent on a pony, but we're going to give it a try..

Any guesses?

Clue:
Is a D-30, and will be painted to look as she appeared in 1974, in all her glory, just two years before owner/pilot and aircraft would be tragically lost, in SoCal.

Joseph

[fsxar177]

Just wanted to add a post-script to the above;

I don't have any real-world time in the mustang, and so my evaluations are strictly my own personal experience within the flight-sim realm, and thus should not weigh any heavier than each individuals own personal preference, and opinions.

Obviously, without both products in-hand, it would be hard to compare. And as I have mentioned, I love both. These are just my findings, and my own opinion.

Best regards!
Joseph

[Sundog]

I think I have all of the WBS Mustangs. Well, except that one pack that has some re-issues but also had the updated/FSX native P-51B's in it. I think John was talking about releasing a dedicated P-51B/C pack for FSX at one point, but I'm not sure how far away it is. So I may have to revisit my decision to hold off on that pack.

As for A2A, I'm really looking forward to their P-51H. It's actually my favorite Mustang, if such a thing is possible. ;)

Then I just need one of them, or both of them collaboratively, to make an F-82. Not any time soon, just sometime.

[Jafo]

Well, I'll not try to hard, ha!

Actually, I'm working on a complete skin for a historic, and exotic bird, which will be applied to this bird. It may be the most difficult livery to represent on a pony, but we're going to give it a try..

Any guesses?

Clue:
Is a D-30, and will be painted to look as she appeared in 1974, in all her glory, just two years before owner/pilot and aircraft would be tragically lost, in SoCal.

Joseph

Miss Suzy Q ... 44-74756 ...;)

[Stickshaker]

Joseph, thanks for your observations. I do not own the most recent version of the WBS Mustang, but I do not recognize the things you say about the A2A P-51. I certainly have to be on the stick with every take-off and landing, and I experience the features you describe in the WBS model also in the A2A Mustang. But admittedly they are rather subtle, I could imagine that they are more pronounced in the WBS model. What is right I do not know. I can imagine that, once you get used to any of the two flight models, one is not more or less difficult to master than the other. With my limited ‘real’ flying experience I sometimes noted that what seemed difficult at first was just getting to understand how a particular plane works, whereas some other features kept requiring concentration and skill no matter how often you had practiced. I hope Dudley Henriques is watching this thread, perhaps he can shed some light on the matter.

[fsxar177]

Jafo;

Good guess! Shhh... Don't tell anyone....

I don't think I've ever painted something this difficult...it's a challenge!

Joseph

[MudMarine]

I have WBS and A2A Stangs........I don't find anything you observed that holds up to my experiences?

[fsxar177]

I would invite anyone to share a cockpit with me, and let me demonstrate.

Joseph

[Jafo]

Jafo;

Good guess! Shhh... Don't tell anyone....

I don't think I've ever painted something this difficult...it's a challenge!

Joseph

My lips are sealed...;)

BTW....been skinning Piglet's A12A Avenger II in various liveries....the last 3 of which were Mustang ones....[just for fun] so am aware of how 'entertaining' some of them can be ....and that one's a goodie....;)

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=84983&d=1366419444

[DennyA]

I don't have any real-world time in the mustang, and so my evaluations are strictly my own personal experience within the flight-sim realm, and thus should not weigh any heavier than each individuals own personal preference, and opinions.


If only we knew where Richard Ordway was now. He could compare the snap-rolling.

(Were any of you guys ever on comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim ? : )