FSX native military AI aircraft

[dhazelgrove]

Why is it that we have so few FSX native AI aircraft available for use on military airfields? John Young and the guys at the Airfield Construction Group do their best, and their efforts are very much appreciated, but I must confess that I can't find any FSX native F-4s, A-6s, A-7s, etc. Do such things exist? Regards, Dave

[Daube]

It is forbidden to create AI aircrafts in native FSX format.
Any developper who would dare to create any native FSX AI aircraft traffic would be immediately banned from all the communities, and his name would be associated with the greatest possible shame, and all the future generations of FS developpers would remember him as "the one who should not be named".
Also, his house would be burnt in flames.

That's the only possible explanation I could find :icon_lol:

Honnestly, I have no idea about the real reason behind that. It seems that all FS freeware developpers are refusing to produce any FSX-native models for any FSX AI traffic.
Even the guys at OrbX, who kindly offered some AI traffic for PNW, have used FS9 AI models with props dissappearing in clouds or masking the autogen...

There is ONE package made with FSX-native AI liners, it was a replacement for some WOAI packages, but I never found the courage to install it...

[expat]

Why would you want FSX native models for AI? They are likely to be flyable if anyone has taken the trouble to model them in the first place, which means a separate VC model, and therefore in turn will warrant doing a more detailed visual model and therefore a big poly hit on frames using these as AI.

The AI planes I use in FSX are almost all FS9 models (unless I make one myself from a flyable model and say to hell with the frames). Search, e.g. "Michael Pearson" at avsim and you will see dozens of F-4's, F-8's, F-104's etc that can be used in FSX. FS2002 or CFS2 models on the other hand often don't work in FSX as AI. I also use many FS9 MAIW airfields in FSX without too many issues and probably fly 80% or more FS9 portovers vs. true native FSX models in FSX. I have never found them to be anything special (don't really notice bump maps till someone points them out) except for the fact you can mix and match vc's which is fun to do!

[Daube]

Why would you want FSX native models for AI? They are likely to be flyable if anyone has taken the trouble to model them in the first place, which means a separate VC model, and therefore in turn will warrant doing a more detailed visual model and therefore a big poly hit on frames using these as AI.

The AI planes I use in FSX are almost all FS9 models (unless I make one myself from a flyable model and say to hell with the frames). Search, e.g. "Michael Pearson" at avsim and you will see dozens of F-4's, F-8's, F-104's etc that can be used in FSX. FS2002 or CFS2 models on the other hand often don't work in FSX as AI. I also use many FS9 MAIW airfields in FSX without too many issues and probably fly 80% or more FS9 portovers vs. true native FSX models in FSX. I have never found them to be anything special (don't really notice bump maps till someone points them out) except for the fact you can mix and match vc's which is fun to do!

As far as I know, FS9 models are more "expensive" to display than native FSX ones.
Also, an AI plane doesn't need a virtual cockpit.

I also use the AI packages you mentionned. They work ok, but:
- the included airbases offen suffer from display problems, forcing you to disable some features like trees for example
- the included planes have problems with their canopies, and props, as usual with FS9 planes
- the flightplans have to be converted to FSX format, else you will loose ALL of your other FSX traffic.
- the FPS impact on some airports can sometimes become problematic.

[IanHenry]

JustFlight produce a Military Traffic addon, but I don't know if it's true "native FSX" or not, someone more expert on those matters will have to comment on that. Regards, Ian.

[dhazelgrove]

I have spoken to Michael Pearson about using his aircraft in FSX. He doesn't mind, but points out that many of the very intricate coding he produces will not work properly in FSX. His comments on FSX in general are best glossed-over, as he's not fond of FSX (and that's an understatement). The best advice seems to be: don't expect any FS9 AI models to be anything more than "eye-candy", and be sparing in their use. Also, avoid anything that might trail a hose, banner or uses a drogue chute. All have issues in FSX. Shame, innit?

[TheGrunt]

MyTraffic X has military traffic "built in" and it uses nowadays fully DX10 compatible FSX models. Model quality isn't the best, but so is not the FPS hit they make and I'm completely satisfied with them. Of course MTX doesn't create accurate military traffic so that every AFB has just those aircraft that it really operates, at least to my knowledge. Still looks nice. I flew few days ago B-29 to Edwards AFB and it was nice to see bunch of B-1Bs among other aircraft being parked in the base. For what it is, it is well done addon in constant developement and tweakable, although UI isn't the easiest to use (there is pretty much no need to use the software after installing unless you are creating own traffic or adding models etc., though). MTX (or MT3D for Prepar3d) creator Burkhard is active in support forums and if something isn't in the manual you can always ask and he is willing to help.

[expat]

I also use the AI packages you mentionned. They work ok, but:
- the included airbases offen suffer from display problems, forcing you to disable some features like trees for example
- the included planes have problems with their canopies, and props, as usual with FS9 planes
- the flightplans have to be converted to FSX format, else you will loose ALL of your other FSX traffic.
- the FPS impact on some airports can sometimes become problematic.

Copy you on that Daube, all 100% accurate in my experience too.

Guess making these adjustments - and a few compromises - for me have become second nature and not a big deal. Thing is, to have the kind of planes one likes as AI in FSX, there are little if any truly native FSX AI planes to choose from. Not being a modeler, my guess is that the reason for this is that the time and work involved to make an AI dedicated, low poly, multi-LOD plane - that is a truly native FSX model - has never been worth all the trouble for anyone to do, i.e. they might as well make it a big production flyable plane, and often as payware.

b/t/w - Michael's USN/USMC AI F-4's work for me in FSX flying on and off of fixed carriers and land bases with full animations working in all of their smoking, AB lighting, ladder dropping, canopy opening and wing folding glory! :salute:

[falcon409]

I like to jump in from time to time and say exactly what most others are saying just to keep my post count up, lol (JK). Honestly though. . .I understand the purists in some of us that want nothing but FSX native items to touch their sim, but sometimes, and this is one of them, compromise is a necessity. Like Daube and expat, my experience is that FS9 AI works quite well in FSX with a minimum of problems (like the ones already mentioned). They look good, they serve the purpose for which they were built and unless you're going to do a morning walkaround each day and inspect for inferior poly usage, I see little need to insist on FSX native only AI. With the amount of time it take these days to produce a native FSX anything. . .the developers, I would guess, are not concerned at all with producing a second model of low poly in the off chance that someone might want one for AI.

I will mention too that while there are a lot of nice AI packages available, especially Military, the aircraft are great, but the scenery, as Daube mentions can be riddled with FPS and display potholes. In most cases I've had to delete so much from a scenery file that eventually what I have are some hangars and a few airplanes. . .things like fences, trees, shrubs, even a lot of buildings are unusable in FSX and none of those developers show any inclination to make them FSX compatible or do any packages that are solely for FSX.

[delta_lima]

It is forbidden to create AI aircrafts in native FSX format.
Any developper who would dare to create any native FSX AI aircraft traffic would be immediately banned from all the communities, and his name would be associated with the greatest possible shame, and all the future generations of FS developpers would remember him as "the one who should not be named".
Also, his house would be burnt in flames.

That's the only possible explanation I could find :icon_lol:

Honnestly, I have no idea about the real reason behind that. It seems that all FS freeware developpers are refusing to produce any FSX-native models for any FSX AI traffic.
Even the guys at OrbX, who kindly offered some AI traffic for PNW, have used FS9 AI models with props dissappearing in clouds or masking the autogen...

There is ONE package made with FSX-native AI liners, it was a replacement for some WOAI packages, but I never found the courage to install it...


Well, let's see ....


First, Rob Richardson has an AI equivalent for almost each of his models, which are only for FSX/P3D ... http://robertjamesrichardson.co.uk/AI%20aircraft.html




Next, John Young has done recreated virtually the entire fleet of the RAF (and some FAA) first-line combat aircraft of the 60s-80s:


Vulcans
Lightnings
Canberras
Hunters
Buccanneers
Victors
Tornados

In addition, he's modelled some other aircraft:

F-111
NASA WB-57
A series of Duxford aircraft (Tiger Moths, B-17, P-47, P-51, F-86, etc.)
A Historic flight (Spitfires, Lancasters ... etc)

A simple search of flightsim using "John Young" under "FSX all files" will bring up the over 40 files - many of them with literally dozens of models and/or paints per file.



Also on flightsim are roughly a dozen files of F-104 Starfighters by Ralf Kreibich and painted by Martin Gossman - virtually all F-104 operators are covered.




Moving along, I recall Milviz launching a freeware T-38 pack




Fernandez Martinez did a fantastic set of F-4s that have been extensively repainted to cover most operators - his stuff is mostly on Avsim. Though done for FS9, they work fine in FSX.




Finally, there's miscellaneous FS9 planes that work just fine in FSX. Prop planes may not work as well, some have the solid prop disk and/or black canopy issue - but we're talking AI, right? I find Alphasim's AI planes (A-4, A-6, etc) from the various scenery packs work great - again, as has been pointed out, FS9 traffic files cannot be used in FSX - but the planes work just fine if the traffic bgls get re-compiled properly. Nick Black's NBAI A-4, for example, has gotten MASSIVE attention by repainters like Mark Griggs - a huge number of USN, USMC, RAN, units done in massive paint packs - all on Avsim. FS9 yes, but should work just fine in FSX.


So I'll agree that some of the "niche" interests (eg: US early Cold War period,) aren't covered as well as other more "mass-appeal" items, the fact remains that there are a good breadth of models available. Indeed, if there is a "lack" - it's more on paints. Think of what could be possible with models like Richardson's AI Vampires and Meteors - dozens of operators/unit opportunities. Take John Young's AI F-86 - how many USAF, USN/USMC ("Fury"), and export operators could be done?

I hope this helps - if nothing more than to give some perspective ....

DL

[WarHorse47]

I'm not a scenery or traffic expert by any means, and since getting FSX I have been scratching my head on how to add military AI to some of the military airports in the PNW.

I have both FSX and FS9 on my machine. With FS9 for example some scenery packages either come with military AI or were designed to use other AI packages like those from MAIW. McChord AFB is a good example with scenery by John Stinstrom and C-17 traffic from MAIW.

I'd like to take a different approach with FSX, but cannot figure out how. I have the ORBX NA PNW scenery, and the buildings and details are just dandy for the various military bases and there is an amply element of private and commercial AI at the appropriate airports. All I'd like to do is add some static and military traffic to McChord and Whidbey Island NAS without having to change the scenery or make any modification or conversions to any FS9 package.

Guess I need a 'Military AI for Dummies' instructional book or something. Just sayin'

EDIT - DL made his post before I finished mine, so here's an additional question: what about AI flight plans or parking for the various military airports? Where does one find those?

[flaviossa]

You guys know this work right? http://www.interkultur.de/gossmann/fsx/owlai.php
I think it´s FS9 models but they are really great. :salute:

[WarHorse47]

Hey there. Thought I might revive this thread with my latest discovery.

I purchased the Milviz Eagle a couple days ago and while trolling through their forum I came across their package for scenery updates and ai. Their package updates the following airports and adds Eagle traffic at the following locations:
1. Edwards AFB, CA
2. Seymour-Johnson AFB, NC
3. Mountain Home AFB, ID
4. Lakenheath AB, UK
5. Bagram AB, Afghanistan
6. Elmendorf AFB, AK
7. Nellis AFB, NV
8. Edwards AFB, CA (Duplicate??)
9. Luke AFB, AZ
10. Hatzerim AFB, Israel
11. Prince Sultan AB, Saudi Arabia
12. Riyad AB, Saudi Arabia
13. Kandahar AB, Afghanistan
14. Jalalabad AB, Afghanistan

There is also a similar package for the T-38 Talon which works well. Here's a screenshot of Nellis AFB tarmac as I checked out the scenery with my Blackhawk.

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