RF-8 Question

[burcham8]

Guys,

I'm led to believe that RF-8 repaints will not work on the now-not-payware Alphasim F-8 without a model that renders the rocket racks invisible. If this is true, and if anyone has this model, would you mind sending it to me?

Thanks in advance,

Marc Burcham

[p3aewguy]

Guys,

I'm led to believe that RF-8 repaints will not work on the now-not-payware Alphasim F-8 without a model that renders the rocket racks invisible. If this is true, and if anyone has this model, would you mind sending it to me?

Thanks in advance,

Marc Burcham

Marc,

I'm attaching the file here.

For all:

I have not been able to contact the original modeler (known as Ninja-mouse on the Alphasim forum)who created this file and the original pay ware models. I have tried the forums I am a member of, without success. He freely gave it on request in the old Alphasim forum until he was shut down by the management. At the time there was considerable dissention over it within the hierarchy at Alphasim. Having said all that, Alphasim is now Virtavia and the F-8 is freeware now, so I'm attaching it to this post only. PLEASE DO NOT UPLOAD IT TO ANY LIBRARY OR OTHER FORUM. I truly believe Ninja-mouse wouldn't mind me doing this, but I will not broadcast it out to the world either.

If any moderator has issue with this, simply delete my post

Dave

[TARPSBird]

Dave, check your regular email. The F-8E "clean" mdl file seems to still have the Sidewinders and launch rails mounted to the fuselage. Unless I'm doing something wrong when I edit the aircraft.cfg file, which I don't think I am. :confused:

[SSI01]

I've noted the same thing, too.

[p3aewguy]

Guys
Did you change the "model=____" entry in the aircraft. cfg file to "model=clean"?
Dave
when I can get on my computer, I'll will double check it.

[p3aewguy]

Guys
Did you change the "model=____" entry in the aircraft. cfg file to "model=clean"?
Dave
when I can get on my computer, I'll will double check it.

Mystery solved! The "clean" model was made clean by the modeler by changing the reflectivity on those parts to transparency! NOT by physically removing them from the model! After thinking about it, I remembered this little quirk from a long time ago. (sorry, I'm getting on a little! Got CRS!) This will only work with those specific repaints!

They are the 2 photo birds, the drone controller, the Blue Angels, and the NASA FBW bird. Even with these repaints, you see the outline of the missiles and pylons in the aircraft shadow on the ground. The only way to make other paints work with this would be to see the addendum below. Hope this helps! These paints are still available on flightsim dot com.

Dave

Addendum: Did some checking. The modified model file looks for an extra texture file named "F8-E_BodyPylonForALPHA.bmp" and uses a modified "F8_Aim9_Main.bmp" texture with an "alpha" channel added. These files make the pylons and missiles "invisible" or transparent. One could use the "clean" model with any texture by copying these two files from one of the special repaints. At least I think so!!! Good luck!

[TARPSBird]

Dave, thanks for the update, I got it figured out now how to make the Sidewinders and launch rails go away. "F8-E_BodyPylonForALPHA.bmp" as it comes in your zip file needs to have the alpha channel changed from white to pure black. The stock "F8_Aim9_Main.bmp" and "F8_Aim9_Wings.bmp" also need their alpha channels changed to pure black. And yes, you'll still see the shadows of the missiles when you're on the ground but the Sidewinders and the launch rails will not show on the plane. Any plane using the "clean" model will need its own dedicated texture folder with those black-alpha bmp's and (I assume?) any other repainted textures, but I haven't added any new paint jobs yet so don't know exactly how that works vs. the big master texture folder.

[delta_lima]

I can confirm that using this mdl fix and Russell Smith's paints will work fine in FS9 to rid yourself of both missles and rails. Though not a fan of low-vis paints in general, his VFP-206 paint is pure magic.

Tarps, since I see you on the FSX forum (and anyone else who only/also has FSX), just know that this fix will NOT work in FSX - only in FS9.

This model, and the period during which it was modelled were easily the most enjoyable FS days for my part. And Russell's and Pierre Llerreux's paints just added to the magic. It's fun to see Carl's F-8 giving folks so much enjoyment even after almost a decade - even amongs the FSXers, it's getting tweaked and polished to this day. As an aid to those wanting to improve reheat effects, there's a very lively thread going on here that applies equally to FS9 as to the FSX: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?76656-Alpha-F-8-Crusader-improvements. Since it uses mods the from now-freeware CF-105 Arrow, this may interest the good folks here in the FS9 category.

I fly the Rollus model these days because I believe it has a slightly higher fidelity in FSX ... yet though the AS model sits near the back of the hangar, I don't think I could bring myself to get rid of her outright ... :)

Best,

DL

[TARPSBird]

delta_lima,
Thanks for the heads-up on FSX incompatibility with the "clean" model file. No big deal, the AlphaSim 'Sader is getting nicely tweaked by the FSX forum folks and anyway we have Sylvain and his associates working on the FSX-native F-8 and hopefully the RF-8 version later on. The "giant texture folder" format for the AS bird really had me puzzled until last night when I added Manfred Jahn's VF-111 "Sundowners" paint jobs. I had to copy the entire contents of that folder for each new paint, or at least the textures common to all models and specific to the model used for the new paint job. Lotta "monkey motion" required for each new paint. :icon_lol:

[SSI01]

Quote: [They are the 2 photo birds, the drone controller, the Blue Angels, and the NASA FBW bird.]

I've been following the thread and intend to implement the changes mentioned. My problem stems from being unable to locate some of the textures mentioned above. I've got the photo birds already, but can't find the drone controller, the BA bird, or the NASA FBW aircraft. I've been to FlightSim.com and tried searches for "F8," "F-8," "NASA," "drone," and "controller" but can't locate them. Any idea where these textures are located? Thanks!:salute:

[delta_lima]

Quote: [They are the 2 photo birds, the drone controller, the Blue Angels, and the NASA FBW bird.]

I've been following the thread and intend to implement the changes mentioned. My problem stems from being unable to locate some of the textures mentioned above. I've got the photo birds already, but can't find the drone controller, the BA bird, or the NASA FBW aircraft. I've been to FlightSim.com and tried searches for "F8," "F-8," "NASA," "drone," and "controller" but can't locate them. Any idea where these textures are located? Thanks!:salute:


http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=crusader+pierre&CatID=root

Or if that doesn't work, search on avsim for "Pierre Crusader" Pierre Lheureux did them - they are simply stellar, even after all these years.

This may be painfully obvious, but just in case .... :) The "RF-8" and "photobirds" terms should be used very loosely - as at best, the mdl in question yields an unarmed F-8C. For those of us "Cru" nuts, there are major differences between the various F models (A,B,C,D,E,E(FN),J,K,P) and the two R models (A,G). Ventral profiles are different (round vs square), weapons/no weapons, cockpit layout/equipment, IFR probe fairing/no fairing, the list goes on.

That said, in the absence of a true photo bird, folks like Russell have filled the gap as best they could with what models were done by Carl. In that vein, this mdl fix lends itself best to the FBW NASA and DF-8 Drone Controller schemes, inasmuch as they were (originally) fighter variants.

cheers!

DL

[SSI01]

Thanks, delta_lima! Found 'em and downloaded 'em. I've got a number of source books on VietNam era aircraft, the "photo" Crusader's lower-front fuselage profile is a little off as you said, however, in the absence of a dedicated version of the bird this will do nicely. :salute:

[p3aewguy]

Dave, thanks for the update, I got it figured out now how to make the Sidewinders and launch rails go away. "F8-E_BodyPylonForALPHA.bmp" as it comes in your zip file needs to have the alpha channel changed from white to pure black. The stock "F8_Aim9_Main.bmp" and "F8_Aim9_Wings.bmp" also need their alpha channels changed to pure black. And yes, you'll still see the shadows of the missiles when you're on the ground but the Sidewinders and the launch rails will not show on the plane. Any plane using the "clean" model will need its own dedicated texture folder with those black-alpha bmp's and (I assume?) any other repainted textures, but I haven't added any new paint jobs yet so don't know exactly how that works vs. the big master texture folder.

Okay all,

Here are the 3 textures mentioned above. They are ready to go. They are 32 bit BMP's with the correct "alpha" channel.

I would recommend copying what ever texture you want to be pylon-less and rename it.
Then copy these files to that folder, overwriting the 2 missile files when prompted.
In the aircraft config file. copy the entry for the original texture. then add clean at the end of the title line and the variation line.
Rename the texture line to match your renamed file, and finally change the fltsim number.
Please note that this is the aircraft.cfg entry for one of the repaints that was created for this model and is used as an example only!


[fltsim.12]
title=ALPHA F-8 Crusader VFP-62Clean
sim=ALPHA_F-8
model=F8-E_Clean
panel=
sound=
texture=VFP-62Modified
KB_checklists=f8_check
kb_reference=
ui_manufacturer=ALPHA
ui_type=F-8 Crusader
ui_variation=13. RF-8A, VFP-62, Eyes of the Fleet Clean
description=VFP-62 textures by Russel R. Smith. © ALPHA Simulations 2005\n\nIn 1953 the F8U-1 Crusader won the Navy competition for the new carrier-based day fighter. It flew supersonic on its maiden flight in 1955. A Crusader set a national speed record in 1956 by flying over 1000 mph, for which it won the Thompson Trophy. In 1957 Major John Glenn flew an F8U non-stop from Los Angeles to new York, setting a transcontinental speed record. In 1958 Vought received the first Certificate of merit ever awarded an aircraft manufacturer by the Navy Bureau of Aeronautics for the design, development and production of a US Navy aircraft. In the Vietnam conflict the Crusader had the highest kill ratio over communist jets of any Navy aircraft. The F8U series enjoyed a long service life which was extended in the 1960s by remanufacturing and updating existing aircraft. Crusaders flew in Navy reserve units until 1987, and the French navy flew its Crusaders well into the 1990’s.
atc_id_color=0x00000000
atc_heavy=0
atc_id_font=Verdana,-11,1,600,0
visual_damage=0
atc_id=
atc_airline=Marine
atc_flight_number=
atc_parking_types=MIL_COMBAT

[expat]

I had to copy the entire contents of that folder for each new paint, or at least the textures common to all models and specific to the model used for the new paint job. Lotta "monkey motion" required for each new paint.

Yes, that is the way Carl liked to do it but a bit of a pain I would agree. What I did was create a small/lean entirely new AS F8 folder with just a few of my favorite paints.. Within each texture folder you can get rid of the bmp's not "called for" by the model in the air.cfg entry but they only really take up HDD space as they aren't loaded unless you have lots or a every repaint ever done in your "active" aircraft folder. I keep a huge (1,000+ a/c) hangar on an external E:drive and the bigger or master aircraft folders that have everything in it.

[burcham8]

The RF-8 repaints work great! Thanks, Dave for making it easy. NOW, if you could just make flying the thing easy. It's a big hairy handful, isn't it?

Marc

[SSI01]

P-3, sorry, I did it exactly the way it was described above but no soap. On the VFP-206 bird I get the pylons but no missiles; on the NASA and drone birds I get another texture altogether (VF-84). I can't figure out how that happened. Downloaded all textures that were described in this thread; confirmed they were indeed the textures needed by looking at them in DTXBmp prior to installation; put them in the sim; duped each texture and made the new name "texture.XXModified;" added the "change" textures that were made available, overwriting when directed to; then changed the config file, to wit:

[fltsim.4]
title=ALPHA F-8 Crusader VFP-206clean
sim=ALPHA_F-8
model=F8-E_Clean
panel=
sound=
texture=VFP-206modified
KB_checklists=f8_check
kb_reference=
ui_manufacturer=ALPHA
ui_type=F-8 Crusader
ui_variation=13. RF-8G, VFP-206, Hawkeyes clean
description=VFP-206 textures by Russel R. Smith. © ALPHA Simulations 2005\n\nIn 1953 the F8U-1 Crusader won the Navy competition for the new carrier-based day fighter. It flew supersonic on its maiden flight in 1955. A Crusader set a national speed record in 1956 by flying over 1000 mph, for which it won the Thompson Trophy. In 1957 Major John Glenn flew an F8U non-stop from Los Angeles to new York, setting a transcontinental speed record. In 1958 Vought received the first Certificate of merit ever awarded an aircraft manufacturer by the Navy Bureau of Aeronautics for the design, development and production of a US Navy aircraft. In the Vietnam conflict the Crusader had the highest kill ratio over communist jets of any Navy aircraft. The F8U series enjoyed a long service life which was extended in the 1960s by remanufacturing and updating existing aircraft. Crusaders flew in Navy reserve units until 1987, and the French navy flew its Crusaders well into the 1990’s.
atc_id_color=0x00000000
atc_heavy=0
atc_id_font=Verdana,-11,1,600,0
visual_damage=0
atc_id=
atc_airline=Marine
atc_flight_number=
atc_parking_types=MIL_COMBAT

Tried this both with and without the variation=13. No difference either way. Not sure what I'm doing wrong here, aggravating a little.:mixedsmi:

[p3aewguy]

P-3, sorry, I did it exactly the way it was described above but no soap. On the VFP-206 bird I get the pylons but no missiles; on the NASA and drone birds I get another texture altogether (VF-84). I can't figure out how that happened. Downloaded all textures that were described in this thread; confirmed they were indeed the textures needed by looking at them in DTXBmp prior to installation; put them in the sim; duped each texture and made the new name "texture.XXModified;" added the "change" textures that were made available, overwriting when directed to; then changed the config file, to wit:

[fltsim.4]
title=ALPHA F-8 Crusader VFP-206clean
sim=ALPHA_F-8
model=F8-E_Clean
panel=
sound=
texture=VFP-206modified
KB_checklists=f8_check
kb_reference=
ui_manufacturer=ALPHA
ui_type=F-8 Crusader
ui_variation=13. RF-8G, VFP-206, Hawkeyes clean
description=VFP-206 textures by Russel R. Smith. © ALPHA Simulations 2005\n\nIn 1953 the F8U-1 Crusader won the Navy competition for the new carrier-based day fighter. It flew supersonic on its maiden flight in 1955. A Crusader set a national speed record in 1956 by flying over 1000 mph, for which it won the Thompson Trophy. In 1957 Major John Glenn flew an F8U non-stop from Los Angeles to new York, setting a transcontinental speed record. In 1958 Vought received the first Certificate of merit ever awarded an aircraft manufacturer by the Navy Bureau of Aeronautics for the design, development and production of a US Navy aircraft. In the Vietnam conflict the Crusader had the highest kill ratio over communist jets of any Navy aircraft. The F8U series enjoyed a long service life which was extended in the 1960s by remanufacturing and updating existing aircraft. Crusaders flew in Navy reserve units until 1987, and the French navy flew its Crusaders well into the 1990’s.
atc_id_color=0x00000000
atc_heavy=0
atc_id_font=Verdana,-11,1,600,0
visual_damage=0
atc_id=
atc_airline=Marine
atc_flight_number=
atc_parking_types=MIL_COMBAT

Tried this both with and without the variation=13. No difference either way. Not sure what I'm doing wrong here, aggravating a little.:mixedsmi:

Russ Smith's texture VFP-206 should have worked "out of the box" and unmodified as he issued them for this "clean"model. Any texture should work with the three modified texture bitmaps added and the model file folder in the F-8 folder. I used that cfg file entry as an example only of the entries required to have multiple variations of the same paint.

If you put the VFP-206 texture folder as unzipped into the F-8 folder, use the cfg entry from his readme and have the "clean" model folder in there....it, the VFP-206 paint, should work correctly. If I remember correctly, the NASA and the Drone controller were by Pierre LeHuereaux and required added the three textures and editing the "model=" entry otherwise the pylons and missiles showed. You getting the VF84 texture can only mean that the texture entry in the cfg is not correct.

I have attached my aircraft file from my F-8. Cut and paste what you need.

The three textures were a separate attachment, but here they are again. These are right out of one of the repaints that works.

Also, it was found out that this "model" will not work in FSX.

Best of luck.

Dave

[p3aewguy]

The RF-8 repaints work great! Thanks, Dave for making it easy. NOW, if you could just make flying the thing easy. It's a big hairy handful, isn't it?

Marc

If you think the F-8 is a handfull, try trapping on a carrier with the A-3 Skywarrior. It was called the Whale for a reason. I've found the F-8 to be fairly docile as long as you stay ahead of it, power wise. If you fall behind you're toast. I have the Enterprise package from Alphasim and fly CLP (Carrier Landing Practice) regularly with many different types of aircraft.

Dave

Here's a few screen shots of the Whale in action! If I'm lucky, I get 1 good trap out of 4 attempts!

[SSI01]

Dave - thanks for the help. Doing a complete rebuild of a new F-8 folder now using your info.

Can't find one texture, though. Did searches on Avsim, SOH, FS, even the web. VF-202. Know where this one is? Thanks.

[p3aewguy]

Dave - thanks for the help. Doing a complete rebuild of a new F-8 folder now using your info.

Can't find one texture, though. Did searches on Avsim, SOH, FS, even the web. VF-202. Know where this one is? Thanks.

Which one?

edit: sorry, didn't read it fully! VF-202! I'll see if I can find it.

[p3aewguy]

Dave - thanks for the help. Doing a complete rebuild of a new F-8 folder now using your info.

Can't find one texture, though. Did searches on Avsim, SOH, FS, even the web. VF-202. Know where this one is? Thanks.

SS101,

check your pm's

Dave

[p3aewguy]

The RF-8 repaints work great! Thanks, Dave for making it easy. NOW, if you could just make flying the thing easy. It's a big hairy handful, isn't it?

Marc

Here's an F-8 trap. A little bouncy. You really have to stay ahead of this aircraft and practice a lot. It lands kind of hot!

Dave

[SSI01]

You ain't just woofin'! I've done that a few times; you nose down until you think you're going to eat a chunk of the flight deck - or maybe run out of deck - then it stops.

Earlier comment about the A-3 is spot-on. It's a handful to trap with. Once again, you look like you're going to run out of deck and dribble off the ship's side.

The F-8 seems to be the Navy fighter that handles most like the F-104, with its hot approach as well. The VI wing on the F-8 sure helped, though. Nothing like that on the -104.

[Motormouse]

Whale and F8 no problem, its Razbams Scooter (a4) I can't trap.

Ttfn

Pete

[TARPSBird]

Nobody should ever get frustrated if they have a hard time coming aboard in a F-8, A-3 or A-4. It was always a (shall we say) interesting experience in real life too. :icon_lol: If you watch any of the YouTube vids featuring carrier ops in the 1960's and 70's, especially aboard the smaller 27-Charlie decks, you'll see how little room there is for screwing up. Pull off too much power over the ramp in a F-8 and you plop down on the deck and maybe bust a main mount or nose gear. Take a 4-wire in a "Whale" and you're on the elevator at the end of the angle deck when you come to a stop. Used to scare me just watching it from "Vultures' Row" or on the PLAT TV.

[p3aewguy]

Whale and F8 no problem, its Razbams Scooter (a4) I can't trap.

Ttfn

Pete

Try increasing the elevator and the elevator trim effectiveness in the flight controls section of the aircraft config file. I had trouble just flying them period until I increased these values. I was having to use full up trim just to fly level, not a great FDE by any means. Haven't tried trapping with the Scooter yet though.

Dave