ELCO PTboat, pilotable, FREE

[lazarus]

81466A must have for the Solomons, for those of us on a budget-if its OK with Pam, using her really excellent PTboat dynamics.Banged together from bits on the HD, Usio's PT-117, FSX SDK, static VC, coded effects, some default, some custom, including canned 'warship background' sounds. For sounds, I am using the sound pack for Rob's Shackleton;really sounds good, you`ll have to get those on your own. Water sounds are in the effects coding. Only here for a short time. Let us know how it is on FPS on your rig with coded effects. I get good performance on mine, and its a fairly modest AMD machine.
8146781468

[Sindhu]

:applause:

[warchild]

of course its ok with me ::LOL:: I'm a very strong proponent of multi-player re-enactment. Its one of the reasons i live at Miramar so much, but i digress..
Even without the multi player side of things, these boats add so much to fsx and put you down into the middle of all the action that the scenery developers have so lovingly added to the sim. The action is instantaneous. you get in your boat and your part of the action. no flying to it first. Even when sitting still having a brew on deck, the boat rocks, the birds make bird sounds and other boats go by.. For someone living in the mountains like me, it may be the closest i get to living back on the old aries 33 at sausolito yacht harbor :;lol:.. Go for it..
I'm going to try and work on a mid war version come the first of the month when turbosquid becomes a possibility ( I cant 3D model to save my life ) and release it as freeware also, so you'll have your choice of lazarus's, mine, or the delta sim boat. Each of them unique..
Enjoy :)..
Pam

[warchild]

I'm getting some anomolies that i believe may be caused by the rather complex progression of skid points in the config file. If its ok with gizmo and the team, I invite you too instead of using default fsx wake and wave effects, to use the effects gizmo developed for the grumman goose.. they present no anomolies and look pretty darned good too.. But check with gizmo first.

81491

[lazarus]

Thank you, Pam.The FDE is really great, love the way the boat climbs up on the step.
RE:effects. I think(there is so much stuff in my effects folder!) I only put in the non-default effects,in addition to the custom effect. Over write or not at your discression. I'll womp up the other 2 Usio boats, as they have slightly different weapons fits, and I am working on torpedos and depth charges for a weapons pack. I think I have a way now to place an explosion at the end of the torpedos run-a timed offset thing that won't really be attached to the torpedo per say, but will allow a simulated torpedo run, then put together a proper release for the library. Oh, and the FDE is not back compatable with the DELTASIM boat, as I moved the running lights around. There is also a ship smoke system section that needs X'd out, though I think I;ll convert that to a smoke screen effect, if I can find a sutable smoke effect.
Happy Hunting!

[warchild]

That will be awesome.. :) I'm going to look forward to it..
For myself, hopefully i can help provide some company for your boat. I'm currently negotiating not only another pt boat which is kind of in the middle between where yours is and the massively armed versions at the end of the war, but a German Schnellboot as well. The Schnellboot was more than equal the pt boat, with heavier arms and armor. it also had an impressive top speed as well as just majorly classy good looks.. it could make for some very interesting and wonderful scenarios in the north sea..

[lazarus]

Ok, that looks like I left out an effect file. I'll check that and see what I left out. For a boat with no effects attached in the interim, just copy and re-name the interior model, and ammend the model config file untill I figure out what I left out. Hmm. I think I have GMAX source for a S-Boot sitting.

[warchild]

No worries ;)

[CurlSnout]

There are some really nice renditions of torpedo boats, including a (1943) German Schnellboot, here:

http://www.naval-history.net/PhotoZHinds.htm

[warchild]

I think I have GMAX source for a S-Boot sitting.

::chuckles:: I got this email today from a developer saying that i should learn to appreciate other peoples hard work.. I cant do 3D, but no, the schnellboot will be from scratch. This person insulted me and well, all of us in a way and threw down the gauntlet too boot.. I admire the S/E-boats. They're magnificent, and they have enough stations on them to keep an effects developer happy for a year, and an ADD riddled flea like me happy for a lifetime..

[warchild]

There are some really nice renditions of torpedo boats, including a (1943) German Schnellboot, here:

http://www.naval-history.net/PhotoZHinds.htm
What an incredibly awesome page youve given us.. Thank you... I had no idea that PT boats went back so far into history.. its going to provide me with veritable weeks of discovery as i research and learn about each boat.. :)
this is wonderful :)..

[lazarus]

::chuckles:: I got this email today from a developer saying that i should learn to appreciate other peoples hard work.. I cant do 3D, but no, the schnellboot will be from scratch. This person insulted me and well, all of us in a way and threw down the gauntlet too boot.. I admire the S/E-boats. They're magnificent, and they have enough stations on them to keep an effects developer happy for a year, and an ADD riddled flea like me happy for a lifetime..

I wonder if its the same troll I'm getting hatemail from. I already know I'm a talentless hack; thank you very much!:icon_lol:

[warchild]

I wonder if its the same troll I'm getting hatemail from. I already know I'm a talentless hack; thank you very much!:icon_lol:

Doubtful.. I know exactly who mine came from.. Someone who doesnt do their homework. Your far from a talentless hack btw.. Not everyone can model 3D, not everyone can cope with mathematics. not everyone can do effects or gauges, but when we combine our skills then we can create something wonderful.. I think humanity was accidently designed that way. What a wonderful accident no??

[lazarus]

Oh, I am fairly talentless-or perhaps unskilled, or unsalted,maybe. But you've got to start somewhere, and I'm having fun, so to the naysayers; I say81492

[warchild]

I personally have no intention of being salted till i'm dead, and then, only if coyotes and wolves have taken to using salt. ::LOL::

[lazarus]

81498
I personally have no intention of being salted till i'm dead, and then, only if coyotes and wolves have taken to using salt. ::LOL::

I don't have to worry about being eaten by coyotes or wolves; or cannibals for that matter. I'm divorced, therefore too bitter to eat!
So, I looked through the effects and realised I left out the effects textures. Put these in your effects textures folder, that should take care of the missing wake. (Crosses fingers!) I left the OZX Geese spray in the config file, the attached effects add to the bow wave,spray, rooster tail, and 'bridge chatter'.:salute:

[Hanimichal]

Driving fast, made ​​a sharp bend and ...


81500 81501

[warchild]

eeeeeeyup.. that'll happen. PT Boats do have a planing hull, but theyve got tons of freeboard and even more weight on the deck than below it. During a turn, a boat goes from being a nice sleek object effortlessly gliding through the water, to a wooden dam trying to move the water its in.. most boats capsize. you need to reduce throttle and start your turn gently until the boat slows down.. Perhaps someday i'll try my hand at Ms. Budweiser, but i'm afraid this boat just isnt capable of high speed tight turns..

another trick is as the boat turns, the rate of turn will increase. When you see it start increasing its rate, back off the rudder till it stabilizes into a constant radius turn.

[warchild]

81498

I don't have to worry about being eaten by coyotes or wolves; or cannibals for that matter. I'm divorced, therefore too bitter to eat!
So, I looked through the effects and realised I left out the effects textures. Put these in your effects textures folder, that should take care of the missing wake. (Crosses fingers!) I left the OZX Geese spray in the config file, the attached effects add to the bow wave,spray, rooster tail, and 'bridge chatter'.:salute:

Your awesome lazarus :) thank you :) :)

[strikehawk]

I think that you can't have too many PT boats, have to play with this one later on. Hopefully this one is easier to paint than the Delta one. Thinking of a PT squadron for the MFC. Lazarus, when are you going to come over to our server and play with us, it'd be nice to see a swarmof PT's charging into Rabul or Bouganville.

[lazarus]

I'll have to upgrade my box a bit for multiplayer, like as not. Might have to give it a try one of these days. Time,time,time;up here in the great grey north, we are expected to work insane hours just to be poverty stricken. Slow down and you sink faster than a screen door equipped PLAN submarine. Retirement age now officialy at 68.75, which means 72 by the time I get within spit'in distance. Fourtunatley, I expect to DOA on the job by 66, which I can afford....
I believe that Usios boats are repaint nightmares; mostly untextured. The options for this model as far as what can be done is stuff like coded effects, hard decks (not very usefull) and application of swatch type textures to the untextured areas, so at least it could be a different color than green.
Thankyou every one for letting me use you all as guinea pigs. Have the effects textures fixed the missing wake? And do you want a 'clean ' version with out effects?

[warchild]

the new textures worked like a charm :).. Thank you Lazarus :) :)

[lazarus]

Excellent! I totaly forgot to read through the effect files for texture callouts. Just did a couple hours on the Gironde (Biscay) from Ambes to Le Verdon Sur-Mer. I am very impressed with the FDE, especially at cruise speeds-22-26kts. Very nice work, as always Pam. How would you feel about taking FDEs for some modern FPB's- say a PEGASUS PHM and an OSA I missile boat?

[CG_1976]

I'd take her for a spin, but no USCG grey scheme.

[warchild]

welll, they're just bigger boats :;lol:;.. Adjust for mass, draft, freeboard size cg and horsepower/thrust and its not too different in basic execution.. I could do that.. :)..
Might have a surprise coming everyones way too here at some point..

[warchild]

I'd take her for a spin, but no USCG grey scheme.
Is THAT why PBRs are dark gray?? Coast gaurd played a big role in nam.. Took a heavy loss too..

[CG_1976]

Is THAT why PBRs are dark gray?? Coast gaurd played a big role in nam.. Took a heavy loss too..

No that's the scheme color when we borrow from the USN. Our stripe although usually is on the fore sides of the hull. We did borrow recently the USN's Cyclone class ships. I sadly don't know much of the USCG's history in Vietnam. Not much info, would love to find some to read up on.

[lazarus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tjeld-class_patrol_boat

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?54801-Operation-34A-and-the-Nasty-Class-PT-Boats

Funny, I was just looking over the NASTY/TJELD class FPB's. 14 boats bought by the USN, 6 boats were used by the USN in Vietnam on DESOTO patrols. Interesting boats, powered by the Napier DELTIC diesel. Allways had a thing for those big, oddball diesels like the DELTIC(FBP's and locomotive power plants-and the related NOMAD turbine compound aero engine) and the Zvedza M503 7 bank 42 cylinder radial diesel the Sovs used in the OSA's and icebreakers.
I am going to do a grey version as well, so take heart. Its an easy hack to assign texture swatches to the un textured areas.

[CurlSnout]

I took a swing at a gray version (with black windows). I didn't realize that the U.S. Navy had so many different colors that are "Gray" in its inventory. This is using "Standard Deck Gray" - RGB = 95 101 106.

I'm having a lot of fun with this little boat.

Thank you, and good morning,

cs

[falcon409]

Are the missing textures supposed to be in the download?

[lazarus]

Top of page 2, Falcon, EFFECTS.zip
Thanks for looking into the repainting,Curlsnout:applause:. Its all swatches,but its easy to change colors, hull no.s and nationality marks. I'll sit down tonight at homeand convert ect ect the other 2 boats, some grey repaints,and box it up for the library.Could probably do it from work(RHIP, but not many!) but I'm nipple deep generating a stupendous pile 'o paper to molify the FAA. Don't you just hate it when you get to work and the clowns actually EXPECT you to work? When there is more important flight simming stuff to do? Jeeze.Its not like any body at the FAA ever reads this stuff; they just weigh it to verify that the paper masses more than the aircraft!

[CurlSnout]

Looking at the images I posted (from home) now, it appears I was in haste - and now I'm away from home. I did remember to save out the alpha channel for PT117_0.dds, but it looks like I neglected to import it back in. In any case, the experiment was successful, more-or-less. I was also planning to renumber the hull and thereby distinguish it further from the olive drab boat.

Thanks a million, Lazarus, for making this available and sharing with the rest of us.

I am using the Shackleton soundset, as you suggested, and it makes all the difference. I'm still playing around with which effects/textures to use or not use.

Hi-Ho,

cs

[falcon409]

Yep, saw that after going through the posts again. Thanks!:salute:

[warchild]

I took a swing at a gray version (with black windows). I didn't realize that the U.S. Navy had so many different colors that are "Gray" in its inventory. This is using "Standard Deck Gray" - RGB = 95 101 106.

I'm having a lot of fun with this little boat.

Thank you, and good morning,

cs

that looks pretty darn good carlsnout.. very tasty :).

[dougal]

I'm so looking forward to this when i get fsx reistalled.

Thank you SO much lazarus for this

[Butcherbird17]

I took a swing at a gray version (with black windows). I didn't realize that the U.S. Navy had so many different colors that are "Gray" in its inventory. This is using "Standard Deck Gray" - RGB = 95 101 106.

I'm having a lot of fun with this little boat.

Thank you, and good morning,

cs

How did you get the boat all gray? I've played with the textures in the package and can not get the boat all one color like that. Are you changing colors within the mdl file itself?

Joe

[voyager]

lazarus

"Clean" versions without effects would be nice also.

voyager

[CurlSnout]

How did you get the boat all gray? I've played with the textures in the package and can not get the boat all one color like that. Are you changing colors within the mdl file itself?

Joe

Hi Joe,

I didn't do anything with the mdl file; rather I achieved the result I posted above by manipulating the two texture files:

1) With PT_BOAT117.dds, replace the green with gray (or alternative color of choice)
2) In PT117_0.dds, you will see swatches of color, 32x32 pixels each, at the top. You need to change the green ones to gray (or other)
3) In addition, I changed the dark blue swatch to black - to get black windows

I don't have the files in front of me now, but that's the essence of it. Let us know how you get on, hey?

Peace,

cs

[familton]

There is a window05 called pushback:
[Window05]
position=2
size_mm=250,60

background_color=0,0,0
ident=Pushback

gauge00=atn!Pushback, 0,0,250,60,15123


When I load the boat in FSX it aborts. I tracked it down to the ATN gauge which I have in my Gauges folder. Since the ATN gauge is not included in the download most users without the ATN gauge in their Gauges folder will never encounter any problems. The ATN gauge is an old gauge and probably not OK in FSX. Why was the Pushback window included in the panel.cfg? Thanks, Bob.

[warchild]

hold down F2.. you should have a nice surprise :)
Pam

[familton]

I'm getting some anomolies that i believe may be caused by the rather complex progression of skid points in the config file. If its ok with gizmo and the team, I invite you too instead of using default fsx wake and wave effects, to use the effects gizmo developed for the grumman goose.. they present no anomolies and look pretty darned good too.. But check with gizmo first.

81491

My wake looks like your picture above (black). There are 4 effects included in the download, none of which are called out in the aircraft.cfg.

The aircraft.cfg calls out fx_wake_m and fx_spray_goose_redux neither of which are include in the download. The effects textures are not included either. Can we please get an update? Thanks, Bob.

[lazarus]

Top of page 2 there is an attachment effects.zip. inside is a folder with the missing effect textures. They go in your FSX/effects/textures folder. That should solve the problemo. Push back. Oops. I never use it, it was just in the 2D panel I borrowed from Hamas Riva speed boat. X it out, as it sounds like you do not have the gauge installed, hence the durp. I'm sure that if you want it, it can be found by searching AVSIM, or FS.com or simvee. The boat backs up fine on reverse thrust/props(F2F2F2F2...)

[Butcherbird17]

Hi Joe,

I didn't do anything with the mdl file; rather I achieved the result I posted above by manipulating the two texture files:

1) With PT_BOAT117.dds, replace the green with gray (or alternative color of choice)
2) In PT117_0.dds, you will see swatches of color, 32x32 pixels each, at the top. You need to change the green ones to gray (or other)
3) In addition, I changed the dark blue swatch to black - to get black windows

I don't have the files in front of me now, but that's the essence of it. Let us know how you get on, hey?

Peace,

cs

Thanks, that did the trick. Now to see if i can get a measure 32 paint on her.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b210/Butcherbird17/PTBoat_zpse9215c7d.jpg

Joe

[familton]

Top of page 2 there is an attachment effects.zip. inside is a folder with the missing effect textures. They go in your FSX/effects/textures folder. That should solve the problemo. Push back. Oops. I never use it, it was just in the 2D panel I borrowed from Hamas Riva speed boat. X it out, as it sounds like you do not have the gauge installed, hence the durp. I'm sure that if you want it, it can be found by searching AVSIM, or FS.com or simvee. The boat backs up fine on reverse thrust/props(F2F2F2F2...)

Hi. Thanks. The Effects fixed my black wake. The problem was, as I posted it, I DID have the gauge and it crashed FSX. When I remmed out the Pushback panel FSX does not crash. If anyone like myself has the ATN gauge in their Gauges folder your panel will crash FSX. For those users that do not have the ATN gauge in their Gauges folder, as most users won't have, FSX disregards the window05 and continues to load. I suggest if you put out any updates that you remove Window05 from the panel.cfg. While I am talking about gauges the fuel gauges don't read at all. They are right and left tank fuel quantity gauges and the aircraft.cfg says there is only one center tank. I have been searching for a center tank fuel quantity gauge that reads up to 3,000 gal with no success. My RPM gauges start out a 0 rpm and the longer the boat is active the rpm increases to well over 10,000 rpm as indicated by the tooltips, even with 0% throttle. The gauges max. out as the full scale value is 3,500 RPM.The rated max. RPM in the aircraft.cfg is 2,400 RPM. Has anyone else seen this? I don't understand how the indicated RPM's can be that high. Regards, Bob.

[CurlSnout]

Thanks, that did the trick. Now to see if i can get a measure 32 paint on her.

Joe

Nice! If you want the windshield to remain transparent (or nearly so), you need to import the original alpha channel back into PT117_0.dds after you've performed your color edits (which I neglected to do in the images I posted above). Here, I've pulled the alpha channel back in and changed the hull number.

[lazarus]

Yeah... Look, I borrowed the panel folder from Hamas Riva mostly so I could get the GPS , Whiskey compass and radar in- the 3 primary gauges I use in a boat: other wise, I do not even use 2D panel. I womped the whole thing up in about an hour, there are bugs, you betcha, thats why its a test file. I doubt I'll do anything with the gauges, as the boat has a static VC, and things like fuel quantity, RPM and the like were down in the engine compartment with the Chief motorman, like as not.I'll look into a mini panel or somfing. The boats were good for 6 hours at full throttle with full tanks, up to a couple of days at cruise. If anyone stays in the cockpit for 6 hours,let alone 2or 3 days; I'll put working fuel gauges in. RPM... I listen to the engines and have a speed read out on the screen.Its just not really critical stuff for a boat. Remember, by making test files avalable this way, there is a cap on the size of what can be uploaded. OZX goose effect files, I'll have to talk to the OZX boys... I didn't even think about those, I thought every one had the OZX Goose in by now. If not ; Why not? Its brilliant.
So, changes in the panel and config-If one can open up a config file, your 90% of the way to modifiying the file as you like, please feel free to do so. Suggestions and bug reports duely noted; thank you all again for being guinea pigs; and such as are applicable to the upload version will be executed- Repaints, a couple different versions, effects /no effects models. I would not even worry about the panel. Once due dilligence is done, I'll toss it over the fence to Erwin and let him work his mojo on it. Right now, the missing bits have been identified, the boat seems to run well with Pams flight-er, steaming model,we know we can repaint it inasmuch as the color; and I am working up some weapons for it-Torpedos and DC's. I'm actually a bit overwhelmed at the response to this. Usually, beta files get downloaded, but no one ever reports back in, or rarely- which I take to mean it works more or less. Again, thank you all for your interest and feed back. Its being worked on Break/edit- the repaint looks great, thanks again for looking into that! Do let us know if a complex repaint is possible.

[CurlSnout]

....I'm actually a bit overwhelmed at the response to this....

Oy! I'm not even a "Boat Guy" (at least I didn't think I was), but I feel somehow compelled to keep playing with this little boat that you have shared with the rest of us. Thanks again.

Here she is: Sun down, running lights on, full speed ahead.

Hi-Ho,

cs

[warchild]

The gauges max. out as the full scale value is 3,500 RPM.The rated max. RPM in the aircraft.cfg is 2,400 RPM. Has anyone else seen this? I don't understand how the indicated RPM's can be that high. Regards, Bob.

Hi Bob.. I'm pulling this quote over from www.pt-boat.com (http://www.pt-boat.com).. it may help to clarify the confusion a bit about rpm..

"The Packard 4M 2500 engine powered most, if not all, of the US built PT Boats. The pre and early world war II engines developed some 1200 brake horse power, this had been increased to 1350 BHP and then by the end of the war 1500 BHP, therefore a late war Elco 80' PT had three engines producing a total of 4,500 brake horse power and could guzzle 5000 gallons of 100 octane aviation fuel in one night of operations. The cruising speed of the Packard was stated as 2400 rpm but note that the Elco "dashboard" tachometers show a top speed of 3000 rpm"

Now note.. Cruising speed is 2400 rpm. That'll get ya a few hundred miles.. Flank speed was up to 3000 rpm. Our boat goes a tiny bit faster to overcome the effects of being seen as a pontoon by fsx..
As for the rated max RPM in the config file. my bad.. i'm sorry.. it should be 3000 rpm..

[warchild]

Oy! I'm not even a "Boat Guy" (at least I didn't think I was), but I feel somehow compelled to keep playing with this little boat that you have shared with the rest of us. Thanks again.

Here she is: Sun down, running lights on, full speed ahead.

Hi-Ho,

cs
Gives you a whole new perspective on flight sim dont it?? also its a bit addicting :)..
pam

[falcon409]

A very rudimentary 2D simply drawn over top the original:

[familton]

Hi Bob.. I'm pulling this quote over from www.pt-boat.com (http://www.pt-boat.com).. it may help to clarify the confusion a bit about rpm..

"The Packard 4M 2500 engine powered most, if not all, of the US built PT Boats. The pre and early world war II engines developed some 1200 brake horse power, this had been increased to 1350 BHP and then by the end of the war 1500 BHP, therefore a late war Elco 80' PT had three engines producing a total of 4,500 brake horse power and could guzzle 5000 gallons of 100 octane aviation fuel in one night of operations. The cruising speed of the Packard was stated as 2400 rpm but note that the Elco "dashboard" tachometers show a top speed of 3000 rpm"

Now note.. Cruising speed is 2400 rpm. That'll get ya a few hundred miles.. Flank speed was up to 3000 rpm. Our boat goes a tiny bit faster to overcome the effects of being seen as a pontoon by fsx..
As for the rated max RPM in the config file. my bad.. i'm sorry.. it should be 3000 rpm..

Thanks. If you put your mouse cursor over either RPM gauge the tooltips will show you the actual RPM. What I see is that after even idling at 0% throttle, for a while, the RPM gauge will max out and the tooltips say the RPM is way over 3,500 RPM. I have tried other RPM gauges and they all read RPM's well over 3,500. I don't know why this occurs. Do you see the same thing? Regards, Bob.

[lazarus]

Nice! That 2D fits the bill just nicely. I'm just going to sit back now and let everyone run with it! When I get the rest of the package ready, can we pull all these bits together as a SOH group love project? I was originaly just going ahead on this out of purely selfish reasons- the best kind- wanted to try out Pams steaming FDE because of the way the deltasim boat looked in the water with her FDE's in. What a contrast in communities between here and say FS.com forums(whingeing and demands for other people to do stuff for you, threadlocking ect ect) Brings a tear to my eye:jump:
So, if all of this works out as hoped for, the end product should be a pilotable package of 3 ELCO boats, A Higgins boat, releaseable object weapons and effects , jumping up the time line, a OSA I missile boat, a 123 ft USCGS WPB cutter for CG76, and if I can figure out the dynamics for a Hydrofoil, a Pegasus PHM. Just like topsy, it kinda growed.

[familton]

A very rudimentary 2D simply drawn over top the original:

Looks great. I see that both RPM gauges are maxed out at 3,500 RPM and both fuel gauges are at 0. That's what I have found also. Put your mouse pointer over the RPM gauges you will see that the RPM's are way over 3,500 even at 0% throttle after a period of time. I don't understand why this is. Bob.

[warchild]

Thanks. If you put your mouse cursor over either RPM gauge the tooltips will show you the actual RPM. What I see is that after even idling at 0% throttle, for a while, the RPM gauge will max out and the tooltips say the RPM is way over 3,500 RPM. I have tried other RPM gauges and they all read RPM's well over 3,500. I don't know why this occurs. Do you see the same thing? Regards, Bob.

Yup, i do see it, only I see it in AFSD. I havent figured it out yet either.. its a piston engine, using a direct drive to the propeller. the rpm and propeller should bith be turning 3000 rpm but yeah, its quite a bit higher.. I'm looking deeper into it with two other fde's currently, and once i get it figured out, i'll be issuing an update for all three boats..

[strykerpsg]

Great looking works in progress to all involved. I just have a question though, aren't the boats riding a bit high on the water? It seems as though the weight properties might be a bit skewed or is that a byproduct of an FSXism? Just curious...

[warchild]

Great looking works in progress to all involved. I just have a question though, aren't the boats riding a bit high on the water? It seems as though the weight properties might be a bit skewed or is that a byproduct of an FSXism? Just curious...

Wellll, it IS a byproduct of fsx its true, but i'm taking advantage of it.. our boats actually ride a little low..

81592

Notice this boats wake doesnt start till the chart house.. ours starts a little in front of that.. it could be that our stern is lower in the water, and that could be a contacts issue. Something for me to look at certainly..

[strykerpsg]

Wellll, it IS a byproduct of fsx its true, but i'm taking advantage of it.. our boats actually ride a little low..

81592

Notice this boats wake doesnt start till the chart house.. ours starts a little in front of that.. it could be that our stern is lower in the water, and that could be a contacts issue. Something for me to look at certainly..

Pam, it's absolutely the fanatic attention to detail that I love about the simmers here. That attention to making it right, as lifelike as possible, that truly keeps me in awe of not only the tweaked fde's you've done, but the paints from Skyhawk, Jankees, zsoltquack and others as well. Not to mention the detail put into all the scenery, aircraft and effects. So, thank you all for making this hobby so enjoyable.

just saying....

[warchild]

Thanks stryker.. :) that does mean a lot to me..
On another off topic note. i just noticed the whip antenna on the lead boat in that pic. Damn that would look nice on my jeep :;lol:; I dont even have a radio but it would still look sharp..

Seriously though. Yeahh, its a sim.. how many of us first bought a so called simulator back in the nineties hoping to get anything that felt like flying the real thing?? its been year after year of letdowns and frustrations since then. Even flight simulator left a hollow pit where expectations and hopes died a rapid and painful death.. I figure i'm not alone. If it doesnt feel real, it doesnt feel real. You could download a copy of fighting falcon and get the same feeling.. And i know it'll never be truly real, but still, if i work hard enough, do a little better each time, maybe for someone else, it "will" be real, if only for a moment.. :)

[dougal]

This is just SUCH a hoot! Thanks for a great addon!!

What are folk using for engine sounds?

[dougal]

Oh wow!

Found a sound set by Gary Jones for twin merlins. Think it was at Avsim.

[dougal]

Oooops!
A whole new meaning to seasick...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCWO8tghxb8&feature=youtu.be

[lazarus]

Hey! I think you're onto a new competition sport- Hydrobatics!

[CurlSnout]

....Do let us know if a complex repaint is possible.

It appears, as you rightly note above, that most of the craft is textured with swatches of color; so far I can't figure out how a "complex" repaint might be possible. HOWEVER: I have discovered that it IS possible to exercise a degree of artistic (?) license with the life raft on the foredeck - this can be any color you want (although I doubt anyone - including me - would want this one).

cs

[jdhaenens]

Sorry I'm late to the party. I made a PT-165 class boat for the original Solomon Islands Boat AI Package and it seems someone made it into a driveable one here:

http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/fslib.php?do=copyright&fid=164859

It has a dazzle repaint available (not of my doing). If anyone wants the source files to continue development, just say the word.

Jim

[warchild]

Jim. I would love them.. Admittedly i'm kinda still learning the basics but yes, i would love to use that as a learning tool..
Pam

[falcon409]

All this baby needs is a driver. . .any chance that might be added later?

[FSX68]

Oooops!
A whole new meaning to seasick...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCWO8tghxb8&feature=youtu.be

Yeehaaa!! Ride 'em cowboy!!!!

[falcon409]

Oh wow!
Found a sound set by Gary Jones for twin merlins. Think it was at Avsim.
Yep:
twin_rr_merlin_sounds.zip

Downloading right now!

[falcon409]

A question for Pam (I think). . .is there a way to incorporate a slight roll into the visual of the PT-Boat? Currently the boat sits flat in the water and even in tight turns remains flat, not many boats are designed that way. Or is that a design function that requires coding in order to function?:salute:

[roger-wilco-66]

All this baby needs is a driver. . .any chance that might be added later?

I could add one (like in one of versions of the LCM-3 I made), but it would mean to intrude the 3d model....

I've been down with a bad case of flu for the past week and am slowly catching up. Holy cow, what happend in this week! Great!
I've got to download Pam's FDE now.

[edit:] I also tried to retexture the PT boat before, just for fun, but the fun went away fast. It would be extremely time consuming because the mesh is unstructured. The model is sparsely textured to begin with, the textures are mainly made of solid colors which also generate huge drawcall loads. Not easily redone, and intrusions of 3d models are a nono without the permission of the author, at least for me. Oh well.

Cheers,
Mark

[stovall]

Good to see you back here Mark, if anyone can do it you can. Love your LCM. It will be one of the featured water craft in Marianas 1945.

Keep getting well.

[strikehawk]

Just to annoy Pam, I picked up the Revell PT-109 last night. I'm thinking of painting it to look like a certain PT home ported in Thailand:icon_lol:

[warchild]

yup yup, i can add roll.. but you may not like it.. the boat only drew a couple feet of water, but then it had approximately ohhhh, a whole lotta weight ( yup my most exacting measurment of this time of the morning ), sitting a few feet up in the air, not to mention the weight of the rest of the boat above the cg also sticking up in the air. Soo, if you turned left, it rolls right. All ships do this. All except the LCSC which thinks its a motor cycle, and the littoral which thinks the sea is an ice rink it can just skid across. Oh wait.. the littoral isnt a ship. its a trimaran.. That explains that..

heheh.. these are precious..

81709

81710

81711

and now for the oddballs..

The LCSC.

81712

and the Littoral.

81713

The littoral is definatelt the perfect old mans ship.. Sexy, spacious, wont spill his drink in a turn.. ::lol::;

[warchild]

Just to annoy Pam, I picked up the Revell PT-109 last night. I'm thinking of painting it to look like a certain PT home ported in Thailand:icon_lol:


:::LOL:: Awesome.. *I want p8icture.. tried working on my P-61 model last night, and ended up gluing my fingers together.. it was hopeless.. ::LOL::
Went back to working on a schnellboat.. i'd been having problems with: watched john Wayne in Flying Tigers ( Gods what a schlokey piece of film ) and went to sleep watching "trinity and beyond" ::;lol::

[strikehawk]

You'll get your pics. I just have to work out a couple of issues with the 20mm mount and then I'll be starting it out. Going to fly in a bit, maybe in a the tilt wing.

[warchild]

Compromising between fixed wing and rotor?? ::chuckles:: i'm amazed :lol:;.. Love the tilt wing.. :0..

Ok.. i added in roll.. its probably not realistic but unless your actually on a real boat, that counter roll can get way disorienting.. So i figured, if the LCSC can do it, and seeing as theres three rudders on this beast with at least two of them digging in hard, maybe a positive roll isnt so far off..
get it here..
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63691108/ELCO_PT-117_FDE-RC2.zip

[lazarus]

Eyegore! Its alive! Things have taken off in a big way for a quickie boat so I could try out Pams FDE's. Good progress on weapons. Did not grab any screens, having too much fun blowing stuff up and somewhat less fun trying to get the PHM up on her foils. A side project, sort 'O related, the OSA went splendedly, no trouble adapting the ELCO boats FDE to it.:salute:81715817168171481717

[CG_1976]

Ah a Osa1, quick park it at Nicaro, Cuba and steer clear of MUGM NAS lol. Also did my ears detect right a USCG Cutter?? I would love to have one please:salute:.

[lazarus]

I put my mouth before my brain on the 126ft CG cutter,CG. I ran across a FS2004 scenery pack that (redacted) had uploaded to (redacted) that had a 126ft in a bgl. When I looked it over, something seemed familliar about some of the scenery objects. It seems that this site is not exercising due dilligence(suprising-its a mainstream one). Further research seems to indicates that the objects should not have been UL'd for reasons best guessed at, I think; so hot potato and jettison, flipped the admins a PM to have a look and verify. Looks like it any way, I'm not touching that one. No names, no pack drill. I am picking away at one, but the zillion ft lattice mast is giving my exporter fits. Tubes are a sonufa&!+?# for vertices. The lattice masts are also killing me on the Sprucans and DDH280's.

[warchild]

lazarus.. please pm me the url of that site, as i'm always doing research and downloading and would like to avoid it.. Thanks..
ONNN another note..
maybe i cant bring you a cutter, but I AM working on a 114 foot 93 tonne boat at the moment.. Was faster than a PT boat too.. :)

[CurlSnout]

A "Sand"-colored option, to go with the greens and grays.

cs

[falcon409]

Compromising between fixed wing and rotor?? ::chuckles:: i'm amazed :lol:;.. Love the tilt wing.. :0..

Ok.. i added in roll.. its probably not realistic but unless your actually on a real boat, that counter roll can get way disorienting.. So i figured, if the LCSC can do it, and seeing as theres three rudders on this beast with at least two of them digging in hard, maybe a positive roll isnt so far off..
get it here..
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63691108/ELCO_PT-117_FDE-RC2.zip
Thanks Pam. . .never had a boat the size of the PT. . .mine was a 28ft Bayliner and it rolled into the turns. I loaded your newest FDE but no real change (no roll). Don't worry about it. The PT is a blast without it. . .it was just something I noticed having owned a boat, but no one else has mentioned it so let's go with the masses, lol.

[warchild]

Thanks Pam. . .never had a boat the size of the PT. . .mine was a 28ft Bayliner and it rolled into the turns. I loaded your newest FDE but no real change (no roll). Don't worry about it. The PT is a blast without it. . .it was just something I noticed having owned a boat, but no one else has mentioned it so let's go with the masses, lol.

No roll?? All right.. Please let me come back to that.. theres a little redwing that needs my attention and a second boat with the same problem ( no roll ) but it weighs almost 200000 pound so that may account for that.. I'm gonna have to get to the bottom of this though. You know me.. if it aint right it aint right, so i'll keep whittlin away till it is .. I promise..

You owned a bayliner?? Cool :) :) .. I owned a 25 foot piver ( trimaran ) and lived on a 33 foot aries and a 35 foot columbia.. Love sailing :)..

[falcon409]

No roll?? All right.. Please let me come back to that.. theres a little redwing that needs my attention and a second boat with the same problem ( no roll ) but it weighs almost 200000 pound so that may account for that.. I'm gonna have to get to the bottom of this though. You know me.. if it aint right it aint right, so i'll keep whittlin away till it is .. I promise..

You owned a bayliner?? Cool :) :) .. I owned a 25 foot piver ( trimaran ) and lived on a 33 foot aries and a 35 foot columbia.. Love sailing :)..
Cool, I loved sailing but never had the time for it. My Dad taught me. . .the trimaran would have been awesome. . .I always dreamed of taking a Caribbean sailing cruise on a Trimaran. . .just a dream though.:salute:

[warchild]

Ialways dreamed of surfing out a storm. Spinnaker flying, mains'l tight to the wind and flying on just one outrigger.. ::LOL:: Gods I'm such a dreamer.. but what a way to go ::;lol::

[lazarus]

Hey Pam, fellow PT boat enthusiasts.

I've 2 different flavors of Sboot about ready to go-AI/pilotable, static VC. Salvaged CFS2-Usio's and another Nipponese chaps- translator wouldn't move it. I'll be getting that organised in the next couple of days to play with. Got side tracked today on a Light Fleet carrier. Soon, soon.

[warchild]

That'll be fun.. :)
I and craig ( Classic Wings ) Have teamed up on a schnellboot for release later this year.. yours should make a fun addition to the fleet as i believe that all machines of a type behave similarly so we can use the fde ive been working on for my schnellboot on these schnellboots as well..

Now let me differentiate between PT Boats and schnellboats. Yes, the schnellboot was german, yes, it sank more than 230000 gross tons of allied shipping.. Yes, it flew the damnable swastika. Other than that, it was an incredible machine.

PT Boats were kind of like the F-16s of WWII. Small, fast Highly maneuverable.. Weighing between 30 to 75 tons PTs were powered by 3 Packard V-12 Gasoline engines producing 1350 - 2500 horsepower. They could turn faster than a junk yard dog. It had a range of 379 miles and a top speed of 47 kts ( early WII models. later models were only able to make 41 kts ). With their large flat planing hulls they were perfect for river and shallow seas work..

The Schnellboot ( Or S-boot or E-boot ) was a 110 foot long deep keeled 93 ton guided missile. Oddly, it had only 1 foot more draught than a pt boat, but there the likeness ends.. powered by three Daimler Benz V-20 diesels developing 3000 hp each, the schnellboot was capable of a sustained top speed of 43 knts with burst speeds up to 60 kts. It was not made for fast turns though, as it was designed for use in the north sea where storms and high waves were common. It could deliver two torpedoes on target from 1200 meters out then reload with the backup set of torpedoes mounted directly behind the tubes. Made out of aluminum alloy and wood the schnellboot was spacious warm comfortable and with 6 feet of freeboard, dry. . Standard armament sonsisted of 2 × 533 mm torpedo tubes (4 torpedoes), 1 × twin 20 mm C/30 cannon, 1 × single 20 mm cannon, and 1 × 37 mm Flak 42 cannon. These boats gained a reputation for pulling up inside allied convoys and pissing off american cruiser and destroyer captains because you couldnt shoot at them. they were too low to the water.
Whatever flag these boats sailed under, they sailed with some very brave and hardy men.. In the world of small boat combat, these boats were the lions of the sea.

[lazarus]

More fun Schnellboot facts. Denmark operated a number of Sboots bailed from surrendered stocks post war,the last retired in the mid-late '60's.
The Royal Navy/SBS set up a special ops squadron buzzing about the baltic from 46 untill the late '50's,dropping agents, mapping mine fields and defences, and engauging in general spying-sculking-snatching, using a number of surrendered Sboots re-engined with a pair of 3000hp Napier Deltic diesels, bailed back to a quasi-civil German crewed squadron obstinately charged with EOD and mine clearance. The PLAN still has one is use as a cadet harbour training vessel. I believe that at least 2 boats in Europe have materialized-one seeing use as a house boat! and are being restored back to wartime configuration.

[warchild]

You may enjoy these :)..

81863

81864

81865
81866

81867

OH, and, theres only 1. S-130.. lots of very sad photos out there too..

[napamule]

For the ELCO PT Boat to 'do' roll on turns all you need to do is set 'Rudder Effect on Roll=2048' and set 'Roll Center= -1'. The MOI's and the 'p factor..' etc entries at end of 'Flight Tuning' section will 'damp' out the effect. Also, the induced and parasite drag will also damp this out. Just my 2 cents worth in hopes of saving you an all night session looking for parameter to adjust/tweak to get 'simple' roll. Of course you can further tune these, along with Roll Stability Factor, Rudder and Rudder Control Factor. All of these parameters are best found in AirEd ver 1.42. In AirEd 1.52 they are named differently so they will be hard to find. Cheers.
Chuck B
Napamule

[lazarus]

81874

Looks good. In sim long enough to see that it goes, eyepoint is a bit behind the wheel house, needs massaging. position with SHIFT/Ctrl+ backspace or enter, L&R by Shift+Ctrl backspace or enter. Looks like we only get the one- the other Sboot, when I got into the hex editor was a MDL2- nothing can be done with it. Still, yesterday there were Zero FSX SBoots.:salute:
81875
81876
81877
81878

[napamule]

Here is 'proof' of PT Boat showing roll-on-turns. At YouTube, 2:22 length: http://youtu.be/dPdztjF0pnI . Nothing fancy. Just quick clip. I show it going on land as I put 'wheels' on it (which qualifys it for 'Push Back'). When stuck in mud even reverse thrust is not enough, but with Push Back you can slide into the drink from the mud (why not). Cheers.
Chuck B
Napamule

[falcon409]

Here is 'proof' of PT Boat showing roll-on-turns. At YouTube, 2:22 length: http://youtu.be/dPdztjF0pnI . Nothing fancy. Just quick clip. I show it going on land as I put 'wheels' on it (which qualifys it for 'Push Back'). When stuck in mud even reverse thrust is not enough, but with Push Back you can slide into the drink from the mud (why not). Cheers.
Chuck B
Napamule
Very nice Chuck!:applause:

[warchild]

Napamule..
Why dont you go ahead and upload yours for folks to use.. Since 'm using the latest version of aired, i cant tell what those entries are. I also have an incredibly strong knee jerk reaction to putting wheels on a boat, even if it IS in flight sim.
OH and, Change the weights in the config.. Base weight on these boats was 56 tons or 112000 pounds and fully loaded at the end of the war they were 61 tons or 122000 pounds..
Sorry.. my bad on that..
Perhaps its the wheels that are allowing you to roll, since once a float is up on step, it will not roll, and this whole boat is a series of floats..

[warchild]

81874

Looks good. In sim long enough to see that it goes, eyepoint is a bit behind the wheel house, needs massaging. position with SHIFT/Ctrl+ backspace or enter, L&R by Shift+Ctrl backspace or enter. Looks like we only get the one- the other Sboot, when I got into the hex editor was a MDL2- nothing can be done with it. Still, yesterday there were Zero FSX SBoots.:salute:

81876



S-14??

[stovall]

Napamule..
Why dont you go ahead and upload yours for folks to use.. Since 'm using the latest version of aired, i cant tell what those entries are. I also have an incredibly strong knee jerk reaction to putting wheels on a boat, even if it IS in flight sim.
OH and, Change the weights in the config.. Base weight on these boats was 56 tons or 112000 pounds and fully loaded at the end of the war they were 61 tons or 122000 pounds..
Sorry.. my bad on that..
Perhaps its the wheels that are allowing you to roll, since once a float is up on step, it will not roll, and this whole boat is a series of floats..

Napamule, as Pam mentioned, I for one would like to try your changes. I also have the most recent AirEd and not sure where your changes are. That would be much appreciated. The role video looked great showing the role.

[familton]

For the ELCO PT Boat to 'do' roll on turns all you need to do is set 'Rudder Effect on Roll=2048' and set 'Roll Center= -1'. The MOI's and the 'p factor..' etc entries at end of 'Flight Tuning' section will 'damp' out the effect. Also, the induced and parasite drag will also damp this out. Just my 2 cents worth in hopes of saving you an all night session looking for parameter to adjust/tweak to get 'simple' roll. Of course you can further tune these, along with Roll Stability Factor, Rudder and Rudder Control Factor. All of these parameters are best found in AirEd ver 1.42. In AirEd 1.52 they are named differently so they will be hard to find. Cheers.
Chuck B
Napamule

Hi Chuck. I added your changes on top of the FDE-RC2 update and I don't get any roll. I used AirEd 1.42. What's wrong? Thanks, Bob.

[CurlSnout]

No consensus, apparently. I looked at the *.air file initially with AirEd v1.52 but, as napamule indicated, I could not find the relevant entries for editing. So I downloaded AirEd v1.42, looked again, and found the proper spots.

I made 2 of the suggested changes: 1) Rudder Effect on Roll = 2048 and 2) Roll Center = -1 and now my boat DOES roll. At the same time, however, the whole thing seems much less stable now - turning at any kind of speed easily results in getting sucked irreversibly into a vortex.

Probably, again as indicated by napamule, requires additional fine tuning.

Thanks Chuck, for setting us (me?) on the path.

cs

[familton]

No consensus, apparently. I looked at the *.air file initially with AirEd v1.52 but, as napamule indicated, I could not find the relevant entries for editing. So I downloaded AirEd v1.42, looked again, and found the proper spots.

I made 2 of the suggested changes: 1) Rudder Effect on Roll = 2048 and 2) Roll Center = -1 and now my boat DOES roll. At the same time, however, the whole thing seems much less stable now - turning at any kind of speed easily results in getting sucked irreversibly into a vortex.

Probably, again as indicated by napamule, requires additional fine tuning.

Thanks Chuck, for setting us (me?) on the path.

cs
Hi CS. Did you make the changes on top of the FDE-RC2 change? Thanks, Bob.

[CurlSnout]

Hi Bob. To be honest, at this point I'm not exactly sure, and I think I'm (at least) a little bit confused. I'm thinking I may have missed the "RC2" version. I started with the air file in the original PT boat download, then I saw people talking about an updated FDE, and Pam pointed people to a download that is here in the SOH library. That download = Elco 80 PT/MTB Dynamics Replacement.zip from February 19th, but now I see that what you get from that = the "RC1" version (and to be honest I couldn't see where it differed from what came with the boat to begin with, but I didn't subject it to line-by-line scrutiny).

From where does one get the "RC2" file?

One thing I do NOT have running right now are any of the effects or effects/textures that came with the boat - I'm still going back-and-forth on what I want to include and what I want to leave out. When I tested napamule's edits (the 2 changes I cited above) I did not have any of the effects active.

An observation: My boat seems to roll more easily to the left than to the right. And my comment about adding the roll and then getting sucked into an uncontrollable vortex is the exception rather than the rule; pretty sure I just need to be more mindful (and less reckless).

Not sure if any of that helps answer your question (?).

cs

[napamule]

Mods to FDEs by committee (ha). Will it work? Well only if we all are on the same page, like they say. I used the RC2 cfg (the air file seemed to be the same). Then I added changes to air using AirEd 1.42. Those 2 changes were the ONLY change(s) I made to the cfg and/or the air.

I then removed the wheels (gear) to see if that made any difference. It did not. So the ability to induce 'roll' more likely will depends on your controller's sensitivity settings and (alas) proper joy/yoke alignment (sorry). There is no 'left' or 'right' 'pull' to this. It ALL depends on ONLY how much you twist your joy (ie: RUDDER) and the 'roll' is independent of other (related?) parameter values.

I did redo the original cnt pts. (WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!-see pics). I also did other edits. But I am still working on cfg and air so any upload won't happen today (real life-chores-etc). Probably tomorrow around 4 pm. OK? OK!
Chuck B
Napamule
Edit: The only reason I add wheels to a boat is to make it 'eligible' for 'Push Back'. You don't have to drive it on land. And yes, you have to reduce speed before cranking in a 360 turn (dah). Real is real. Mostly if you don't use 100% rudder it will behave. Take it easy, unless you are being shot at and then 'Full Speed Ahead-Dann the Turpedos!' (hehe).

[familton]

Hi cs. The FDE-RC2 update is in a previous post where you can click on the link and download it. I am confused too. I guess the link in your message is the "RC1 version". Bob.

[warchild]

So anyway, heres the reality.. FSX does not like to roll floats. And since boats are built around floats, it gets real squirelly when you try to make them roll.. Just give me some time.. Contrary to popular belief, just cuz something isnt in the SDK doesnt mean it doesnt exist. you just gotta find it.. I'll be working on it, especially with the schnellboot being narrower than a PT and a lot more roll-y.. :)..

Oh and napamule.. i hear ya on the pushback.. bear with me.. these boats do have reverse, but implementing it has been tricky due to having to use a constant speed prop to get reverse.. No one wants to listen to a 30000 rpm allison.. :)..

[CurlSnout]

Wir haben noch ein anderes Boot, das ausgezeichnet ist.

Somewhere in the English Channel:

[familton]

So anyway, heres the reality.. FSX does not like to roll floats. And since boats are built around floats, it gets real squirelly when you try to make them roll.. Just give me some time.. Contrary to popular belief, just cuz something isnt in the SDK doesnt mean it doesnt exist. you just gotta find it.. I'll be working on it, especially with the schnellboot being narrower than a PT and a lot more roll-y.. :)..

Oh and napamule.. i hear ya on the pushback.. bear with me.. these boats do have reverse, but implementing it has been tricky due to having to use a constant speed prop to get reverse.. No one wants to listen to a 30000 rpm allison.. :)..

Hi. If the prop RPM is really 30,000 rpm then the aircraft.cfg is wrong. It says 2,400 rpm max. If the 30,000 rpm is correct that's why the RPM panel gauge is maxed out at over 10,000 rpm. It reads prop speed and not engine rpm. The spec at a historical pt boat site says 2,400 RPM is the max at the engine. Bob.

[warchild]

Hi. If the prop RPM is really 30,000 rpm then the aircraft.cfg is wrong. It says 2,400 rpm max. If the 30,000 rpm is correct that's why the RPM panel gauge is maxed out at over 10,000 rpm. It reads prop speed and not engine rpm. The spec at a historical pt boat site says 2,400 RPM is the max at the engine. Bob.

Yes bob, the config is wrong. may i please ask you to read this below and not think in terms of black and white..
Base RPM on the PT boat is 2400 rpm. Thats where that ends ( in the model )., Now it gets complex.. The real Pt boat uses two fixed pitch 28.3" per revolution propellers, and One 30.3"per revolution propeller. all of these are fixed..
1. FSX allows only one size of propeller.

The engines on a PT have a reversing gear allowing you to slow the boat down and back it up.

2. FSX does not allow reversing gears on its engines.

So at this point we got a model in fsx that goes straight real good but little else..

That presents a problem on a boat where reversing is such a major part of the boat. So what FSX DOES allow, is reversing props, provided you use their constant speed props.

With a constant speed prop, the prop is always turning at a fixed pre defined rpm. When you move the throttle with a constant speed prop you are not changing the amount of fuel to the engines, your changing the pitch of the prop. This holds true with boats as it does with planes.
The controlling entry in the config file that oversees this is
min_gov_rpm=
if that entry is too low, you can move forward, and even slow down which is what you have right now in the PT. Make it higher and you can reverse, BUT, as you make that higher, the rpm of the prop increases as well.

This is the goliath i am working with, not only on the PT but on a schnellboot as well.. there is no way to make the boat reversable without using constant speed props, and no way to make constant speed props effective in reverse unless the rpm is high enough.

There are certain things i will not compromise in my FDEs. The boat uses a 12 cylinder 2000 HP Packard engine. You wont find that in any other boat thats out there. please, go ahead and look. They all use Jet engines. Every last damned single one of them. The PT uses a direct drive 1:1 ratio propeller. I will not fiddle with that either. Every other boat is using reductions of 15 - 30:1 please check it out..
The constant speed gear is not attached to either the engine or the reversing gear. its a part of the prop and is located on most engines just behind and inside the hub of the prop itself. Thats your culprit. And there is no way around it if the rest of the boat is going to work properly. that oprop will always read 9000 rpm, unless we change min_gov_rpm=. Thats all there is too it..

[familton]

Hi. OK. Thanks for the great explanation. I understand. Regards, Bob.

[lazarus]

If you find that the boats need waterline position, pitch, or model zero point need moved, just shout,or go ahead and make whatever changes you need with MDLX. Both boats manipulate easily with MDLX. I think the Elco boat is about bang on with the positions of the DS boat that Pam wrote the FDE around, as the eye points lined up perfectly. I guessed at the SBoots zero point.

[warchild]

If you find that the boats need waterline position, pitch, or model zero point need moved, just shout,or go ahead and make whatever changes you need with MDLX. Both boats manipulate easily with MDLX. I think the Elco boat is about bang on with the positions of the DS boat that Pam wrote the FDE around, as the eye points lined up perfectly. I guessed at the SBoots zero point.


Been having a "jolly good time" for the last 200 or so waking hours. the PT was a barn raising party in comparison to the schnellboot. The PT was small enough and light enough that the fsx engine could handle almost anything you threw at it on that boat. its a great boat to learn on.. the schnellboot isnt so simple.. change a single value in the contacts area and it has and will fly off into space.. literally..
the schnellboot is a 200000 pound beast in comparison to the pt being 146000 pounds, not to mention its 114 feet in length as compared to the elco 80 foot. FSX cannot handle the schnellboot all on its own, and it has quickly become the most sophisticated, demanding spoiled rotten brat i have ever produced outside of the su-37 ( which i know you havent seen yet.. Patience :) its worth it ). Everything came into play. Contacts, thrust, drag, even lift and ground effects had to all be adjusted and calibrated. Since fsx wont pull 100 tonnes up on step on its own like it does with the PT, I had to use lift to do it, which provided for a much cleaner lift anyway.. She will turn on a dime at 4 knots, but high speed she likes a little more room.. She's a greyhound not a quarter horse. A sophisticate, not a cowboy.. Guess thats the main difference between european and american designs.. We like our cowboys.. :)
82032

82033

82034

And this is what happens when you change some god awful oddball part of the contacts ( like landing gear compression ratio )..


82035

[warchild]

Hi. OK. Thanks for the great explanation. I understand. Regards, Bob.


Yeahhhh, i'm sorry Bob.. i had just woken up and was in an unusually for me grumpy mood.. I do apologize that i snapped at you..
Pam
now i feel all bad.. :(

[warchild]

For me its because there were three distinct designs of schnellboot. the original S-1 which was built literally on the designs of a 1934 fast yacht, Thw S-14 class which covered Boats S-14 through S-24 and the final S-34 design which covered between S-34 and S-100. each has a distinctly different control room/bridge. Each also has a distinctly different forecastle design.. the S-14 class was a wet boat with its tubes mounted on the foredeck . The S-34 saw the fordeck raised and became a very nice dry boat. the S-130 saw that foredeck extended over the tubes, but theres so little difference between it and the S-100 otherwise its hardly worth fussing with.. So lazarus has given us an S-14 class and i'm working on an S-100 class.. two very distinctly different boats..:).

[CurlSnout]

Love the design of the S-100 (armored wheelhouse)!

For those who may be interested (and haven't already seen this), bottom of this page provides a visual reference to the various Schnellboot class types (with the qualification that details may be in error):

http://www.prinzeugen.com/Plans.htm

Hi-Ho,

cs

[familton]

Yeahhhh, i'm sorry Bob.. i had just woken up and was in an unusually for me grumpy mood.. I do apologize that i snapped at you..
Pam
now i feel all bad.. :(

No problem Pam. I appreciated the info. Bob.

[warchild]

Love the design of the S-100 (armored wheelhouse)!

For those who may be interested (and haven't already seen this), bottom of this page provides a visual reference to the various Schnellboot class types (with the qualification that details may be in error):

http://www.prinzeugen.com/Plans.htm

Hi-Ho,

cs

More likely MY details are in error.. my old thinker dont work so great any more..

now, what that page doesnt show is that in the cockpit, theres a second wheel. its constructed identically to a wheel used on an artillery piece for changing azimuth. about a foot wide with a deadmans knob on it.. Had to watch the videos on schnellboots three times before i caught the one second where the captain of the boat is actually turning it to turn the boat.. Snce the bridge is also where the torpedo's are lined up from using a type of ranger instrument i havent found yet, it kinda makes sense so as to be able to fine adjust the boats course to put the torpedo's where you need them.

[PZL Belfegor]

I rarely write on this forum, but I couldn't stop thinking about the quote below from flight model creator.

When you move the throttle with a constant speed prop you are not changing the amount of fuel to the engines, your changing the pitch of the prop. This holds true with boats as it does with planes.
That is not how it works. The throttle changes the amount of fuel-air mixture to the engines (usually by the means of operating butterfly valve in naturally aspirated carburettor engines), irregardless of whether the plane has constant speed propeller or not. It's the governor that changes the pitch of blades to hold desired RPM. If the throttle only changed pitch without change in engine's power, RPM would change (as thrust and drag produced by propeller would change).
Very interesting yet easy to comprehend read on this subject:
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182081-1.html
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182082-1.html

[warchild]

yes, i'm afraid your absolutely correct.. Changingthe throttle changes the manifold pressure not the pitch of thenprops.. the prop rpm remains at a given rate regardless of manifold pressure and the pitch is controled by the prop pitch lever.. my apologies..
Pam

[Odie]

Been having a "jolly good time" for the last 200 or so waking hours. the PT was a barn raising party in comparison to the schnellboot. The PT was small enough and light enough that the fsx engine could handle almost anything you threw at it on that boat. its a great boat to learn on.. the schnellboot isnt so simple.. change a single value in the contacts area and it has and will fly off into space.. literally..
the schnellboot is a 200000 pound beast in comparison to the pt being 146000 pounds, not to mention its 114 feet in length as compared to the elco 80 foot. FSX cannot handle the schnellboot all on its own, and it has quickly become the most sophisticated, demanding spoiled rotten brat i have ever produced outside of the su-37 ( which i know you havent seen yet.. Patience :) its worth it ). Everything came into play. Contacts, thrust, drag, even lift and ground effects had to all be adjusted and calibrated. Since fsx wont pull 100 tonnes up on step on its own like it does with the PT, I had to use lift to do it, which provided for a much cleaner lift anyway.. She will turn on a dime at 4 knots, but high speed she likes a little more room.. She's a greyhound not a quarter horse. A sophisticate, not a cowboy.. Guess thats the main difference between european and american designs.. We like our cowboys.. :)
82032

82033

82034

And this is what happens when you change some god awful oddball part of the contacts ( like landing gear compression ratio )..


82035

Pam, gotta say that last pic in the clouds looks pretty cool....kind of John Carter-ish.....

[CurlSnout]

....now, what that page doesnt show is that in the cockpit, theres a second wheel. its constructed identically to a wheel used on an artillery piece for changing azimuth. about a foot wide with a deadmans knob on it.. Had to watch the videos on schnellboots three times before i caught the one second where the captain of the boat is actually turning it to turn the boat.. Snce the bridge is also where the torpedo's are lined up from using a type of ranger instrument i havent found yet, it kinda makes sense so as to be able to fine adjust the boats course to put the torpedo's where you need them.

Perhaps this page does (?) show the second wheel to which you make reference:

http://www.military-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3761

[warchild]

Perhaps this page does (?) show the second wheel to which you make reference:

http://www.military-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3761

CS.. Dont take this the wrong way, but i could hug you.. thank you.. And the binoculor type thing is actually the ranging device. not really binoculars at all..

[CurlSnout]

CS.. Dont take this the wrong way, but i could hug you..

Hi Pam,

I'm not sure if the simple act of passing along a URL qualifies me as hug-worthy, but I'm very happy if that helps you out. Fact is, my motives are purely selfish - I'm anxious to see what you are conjuring over there on the other side of the Cascades.

The work that the other fellow was doing (shown in the link above) is AMAZING. So far I've been unable to trace that project any further.

Looking forward to future work-in-progress reports regarding your S-Boot.

cs

[warchild]

Welll, what i and paul are doing is attempting to make as accurate as p9ossible a flight/float model for the S-100 series schnellboots. Craig, from Classic Wings is working on the 3D model as he can ( sadly, unlike me he has a real life :;lol:: ) but the bottom line is, with all the beauty pics and videos of these boats out there, theres very little data relating to detail. That site, and that persons work is a dream. I know craig will be able to make extremely good use of it. Also, having seen the inside of this boat, while Craig is working on the stuff that is difficult ( anything not flat and smooth ) I'll be building the interior of the boat. Its my wish to bring you an extremely accurate model to enjoy..
to be honest, I may never have found that site. i wouldnt have thought to look there, especially after doing a search for blueprints and having only one page turn up.. So yeah.. its pretty special :)

[CurlSnout]

Since the *.cfg file for the Lazarus/Usio S-15 Schnellboot was adopted from the ELCO PT boat, the lights are not proper - as seen in the first image below. I fussed around for a while (longer than is probably necessary, but the only approach I know for lights in FSX is the empirical/trial-and-error approach), and have redone the [LIGHTS] section to render a better fit for the S-15 Schnellboot - as seen in the second image below.

I made the following edits:

1) Aligned the main/top mast light to be proper for the signal mast
2) Created 3 lights for the physical (but un-lit until now) lamps on the aft side of the signal mast
3) Re-positioned the red/green navigation lights to the front of the wheelhouse roof
4) Created a center stern light

In additon, I removed the references to vc/cabin lights, as I don't see that they are used in this model.

Here is the edited [LIGHTS] section of the *.cfg file to reflect the above changes, if anyone wants to incorporate them:

[LIGHTS]
//Types: 1=beacon, 2=strobe, 3=navigation, 4=cockpit, 5=landing, 6=taxi, 7=recognition, 8=wing, 9=logo, 10=cabin

light.0=3, 12.48, -0.1, 21.10, fx_navwhih
light.1=3, 21.44, 4.8, 11.60, fx_navgre
light.2=3, 21.44, -4.9, 11.60, fx_navred
light.3=3, 10.44, 0.0, 19.30, fx_navwhih
light.4=3, 10.44, 0.0, 17.10, fx_navwhih
light.5=3, 10.44, 0.0, 15.04, fx_navwhih
light.6=3, -55.59, 0.1, 8.81, fx_navwhih

If anyone can offer corrections to my choices for placement and/or colors (in my lookings, I came upon someone/somewhere speculating that the lamps on the aft side of the signal mast might be red?), that would be great.

Up and Away,

cs

[warchild]

hang onto those light settings. i'm adapting the fde from the S-100 to it ( lets face it, all schnellboats had a lot in common ) so theyre going to be off again. Sorry.. I'm also looking for a suitable sound set for the beasty.
hard to believe it had so much freeboard on it.. that thing sits higher than a hippi on a saturday night.. Sure is pretty though. Really shows off post wwi design ethics..

[lazarus]

No, sorry. I did not do much at all with the Sboot other than make sure it floated and ran, You all seem to have this one firmly by the face. Good stuff going on. The armored S Boot WIP looks nice.
I did get a 'Eboat' kill, shifting hats here, with the trusty Swordfish. That had to be embarassing. Bit like a fighter jock being shot down by a helicopter, or being covered up by the cat...

82063

[warchild]

thats all right. we all get pie in the face from time to time :;lol:;yeahhh, i's really like to make the S-100 nice.. Will you be animating the wheel or screws??

OK.. i'm using the sound set i found for the S-100. it isnt the best, but its a start..
on my boat the lights settled beautifully into a nice civilian configuration. didnt look a thing like the pics above, but it did look nice ::lol:;.. I've since fixed them in my fde so thats good to go

[gradyhappyg]

Is there anyway to make the smoke generators switchable?
The i key isn't working. Is that a model thing or a configuration thing?

8207282073

[warchild]

its my belief that that is the effect itself. it triggers when you start the engines. To change it you would have to change the [smoke systems] entries in the aircraft.cfg file..
Pam

[fxsttcb]

I grabbed this when it was first offered, but, didn't have time to play with it until now. Thanks to Pam for the FDE. Darn good start! :salute:
Working on my own, new FSX only *.air, and tweaked aircraft.cfg to my liking. Yes, with "Roll" included. Having lots of fun! 2D Panel and gauges are WIP.
82095

I didn't install the included effects, or the later offerings yet. I removed all effect references in the aircraft.cfg, but, some just won't go away.
I read in the 1st post where lazarus stated: "...coded effects, some default, some custom..."
Is there a way to eliminate them? Or, point them to a dummy effect? Thanks, Don

[lazarus]

Hi Don. Nice panel. I hope at the end of this, we can all pull the different bits together as a single package. Its turned into quite the group project.
For a model with no effects, copy the interior model,and re name it the same as the exterior,r 'normal' model, and replace the exterior.The interior model is identical, but has no effects attached. Same center, eyepoint and height.

[napamule]

Quote: 'I think the Elco boat is about bang on with the positions of the DS boat that Pam wrote the FDE around, as the eye points lined up perfectly. I guessed at the SBoots...'.

BEWARE OF THE IDES OF MARCH (hehe). The ELCO PT BOAT and the SBoots's Cnt Pts are IDENTICAL. Usio is pulling our leg? The boat are not identical, so how come? I mean, the cnt pts are so RADICAL I don't even understand the 'logic'. I am guessing FSX will 'iron out' the 'diffeences' and 'allows' it to float (although I don't see the 'how' or 'why' this is so). The compression entries is the mystery. Then there is line 'max number of points-8' yet he has tons of 'type2' (scrapes-WHICH YOU DON'T EVEN NEED for a boat!!!) that go to 18 (when I added wheels). A pic in prior post shows position of floats (complete wrong). So THAT is why the mods of air to produce 'roll' do not work 'right' (instablility)? It should all 'fit' together. These FDEs don't. So must make new ones. Right? Right!

Yes, there is further tweaks called for. That would be to re-do the cnt pts to fit the boat (#1). Then there is the (Flight Tuning) section with the 'p factor' etc entries that very well may be there to 'smooth' the turns, but would best be left for use with a helicopter and not a PT Boat (that turns on water).

And the effects have to be 'disabled' and not just removed. For 'spray=fx_spray' try 'spray=fs_spray.boo'. This disables effect. Leave the line out and FSX will use the DEFAULT effect. And for the SMOKE you must have the particular effect called in your EFFECT folder. Otherwise you do not get smoke. (Post pic shows 'dirt spray' for 'engine smoke' which is totally wrong (sorry)). The smoke for FS9 is different from FSX smoke POSITIONS. iE:
[SMOKESYSTEM]
//------------------------------------
// FS9: U/D, F/B, L/R
//ie: vert, lon, lat
//-----------------------------------
// FSX: F/B, L/R, U/D:
//ie: lon, lat, vert
//-----------------------------------

We all know (?) what 'type 5' (water rudder) cnt pts do for turning amphibs/ships/boats (makes it really squirley in FSX). I hope NO ONE suggest using those type cnt pts (pray). So there you are. What a mess. But it can be fixed. I made a 'Save' mistake and lost my 'good' roll air edits and wound up with boat that rolls (flips) at the slightest use of rudder. Give me another day (or 2). I'LL BE BAAACKK.
Chuck B
Napamule

[lazarus]

I guessed at the Sboats running waterline, pitch and center in the model so that it would drop into Pams PT FDE and run with out re writing the entire FDE. It gives a fast way to plop it into the sim without lots of fiddling.The FDE is identical. Did not change anything in the FDE, just coppied it out of the PT boat folder. It seems to ride a bit high at rest, but looked not too bad running. That is why the contact points et al are identical.

[warchild]

Your right napamule, they arent the same. not in a long shot.. fortunately ( in my early morning not so humble opinion ) there are people like you and Familton out there who desire exactitude.. And yes, i just woke up again so bear with me.. have coffee but no sugar this morning.. hate coffee without sugar ::sigh::

I have a WIP that i'm willing to upload for you folks for the S-100 that i've adapted to the S-15. I think ( hope ) you'll like it, but its only a WIP. Theres a long way to go on it.. You'll still need to fiddle with the effects on it.. Sorry.

now lets talk about roll for a moment..

We all want roll on the boat. I personally want an exact amount of roll for a given speed/turn rate. But, heres the problem as i understand it so far..
1. boats float because of floats. ( but i may have an idea there..)
2. floats are a type of landing gear. They can even have a turn radius ( which is how the boat turns )
3. Fuselages roll, not landing gear. landing gear are fixed in their relation to the fuselage/hull.
4. If we make a normal flight model with all the parts and cg where they belong, the boat will never roll.
5. if we place the flats/gear inside the fuselage/hull, the boat will become instantly unstable and roll over on its back.
6. if we place the gear/floats inside the fuselage/hull, and drop the cg low enough below the boat, then we might find stability but, will it roll??
7. If we eliminate the gear/floats and simply drop the cg low enough will the boat be stable?? Will it roll?? Can it be turned left and right??

there are three things that do not exist in fsx.. a fuselage, Air, or water. These are all illusions as the mathematical construct used for the various pieces i just described are programmed as types of planes ( as in 2D plane) At some point, in creating flight models, that fact becomes glaringly apparent. So, IF we remove the landing gear can we turn the boat? Yes, there is a rudder, but its based on aircraft rudders which are notorious for being ineffective at low speed ( or real planes would never need nose wheel steering ). it wont turn the boat without a major overhaul of the air file ( which in the end, may be our only choice ). So at the moment, we appear to be stuck using floats/landing gear to turn the boat, but appearances may sometimes be deceiving..

SO, Ive defined the absolutes above. Those are the exact limitations facing us in creating a flight model for this beast, BUT, they also define (by their absence ) the opportunities for creating something new and wonderful..
I'll put the S-15 FDE together and upload it today. I apologize for moving the position lights to the light boxes on the railings, but i used to live on boats and having lights where they dont belong, no matter how pretty, always irked me to no end.

[lazarus]

Hmm. Can a float point have compression and rate defined?

[warchild]

I guessed at the Sboats running waterline, pitch and center in the model so that it would drop into Pams PT FDE and run with out re writing the entire FDE. It gives a fast way to plop it into the sim without lots of fiddling.The FDE is identical. Did not change anything in the FDE, just coppied it out of the PT boat folder. It seems to ride a bit high at rest, but looked not too bad running. That is why the contact points et al are identical.

It still runs high. it runs at the waterline, where it should. The S-14 series ( including the S-15 ) were post WW1 boats and were designed with that same edwardian type design philosophy that pre and during war designs were created with. i.e. higher sides ( more freeboard ). it wasnt untill S-38 that they reduced the amount of freeboard on these boats to give them that classic shark like profile in the water..
You did fine.. :)
But i'll stll upload this completely new fde :)..

A warning to all who fiddle with FDE's.. i GUARANTEE that if you change things in the contacts entries, the boat WILL fly into space ( sometimes amusingly, sometimes not so amusingly ), SO PLEASE make a backup of your config files before you make any changes. This is an entirely new FDE. Except for the fact that i used the pt FDE as the original basis to create this one on there is no relationship between them. Please treat it as such..

[warchild]

Hmm. Can a float point have compression and rate defined?

:salute:

Whyyyyyy YES!!.. it can :) :) :)

Let me rush this through and upload it so you can play :) :) :) will look forward to see what you can do with it, and hear your experiences.. :)..

[warchild]

FDE uploaded. it can be found at the bottom of the page at http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?catid=4&sort=h&page=5&pp=20 . enjoy.

Pam

[warchild]

GOT IT!!!. Lazarus. your a genius.. Copy the two sections below into your aircraft.cfg file overwring the existing sections, BUT only IF youve downloaded and installed the S-15 FDE i just uploaded above.. otherwise, forget it.. you'll be in space ( i guarantee ).


[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
max_gross_weight =226000
empty_weight=186000
reference_datum_position=0.0, 0.0, 0.0
empty_weight_CG_position= 0.0,0.0,2.35
max_number_of_stations = 5

station_load.0 = 200, -38.475, -2.4, 10.793
station_load.1 = 200, -38.475, 2.4, 10.793

empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 12540000
empty_weight_roll_MOI = 6800000
empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 14500000
empty_weight_coupled_MOI = 2048.0


CG_forward_limit= 0.0
CG_aft_limit= -0.00



_________________________


[contact_points]
;/0 Class
;/1 Longitudinal Position (feet)
;/2 Lateral Position (feet)
;/3 Vertical Position (feet)
;/4 Impact Damage Threshold (Feet Per Minute)
;/5 Brake Map (0=None, 1=Left, 2=Right)
;/6 Wheel Radius (feet)
;/7 Steer Angle (degrees)
;/8 Static Compression (feet) (0 if rigid)
;/9 Max/Static Compression Ratio
;/10 Damping Ratio / Water Rudder Effectiveness (0=Undamped, 1=Critically Damped) / 1.0 = normal
;/11 Extension Time (seconds)
;/12 Retraction Time (seconds)
;/13 Sound Type
;/14 Airspeed limit for retraction (KIAS)
;/15 Airspeed that gear gets damage at (KIAS)

// 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
point.0=4, 49.0, -1.850, -3.825, 9600, 0.0, 0.0, 60.0, 2.2, 20.0, 3.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.1=4, 49.0, 1.850, -3.825, 9600, 0.0, 0.0, 60.0, 2.2, 20.0, 3.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.2=4, -57.0, -8.350, -3.825, 9600, 0.0, 0.0, 60.0, 2.2, 20.0, 3.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.3=4, -57.0, 8.350, -3.825, 9600, 0.0, 0.0, 60.0, 2.2, 20.0, 3.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.4=2, 53.365, -0.5, -1.698, 9600, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.5=2, 53.365, 0.5, -1.698, 9600, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.6=2, -30.365, -7.37, -1.698, 9600, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.7=2, -30.365, 7.37, -1.698, 9600, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.8=5, 53.235, -2.32, -3.932, 9600, 0.0, 0.0, 60.0, 0.0, 0.0, 20.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.9=5, 53.235, 2.32, -3.932, 9600, 0.0, 0.0, 60.0, 0.0, 0.0, 20.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0

max_number_of_points=8

static_pitch= 0.000
static_cg_height= 2.349
gear_system_type=1


________________________

Now, some of you arent going to like the roll. after airplanes it seems weird, but, its behaving correctly. previous images ive posted of ships rolling show this to be true. is it accurate ( in relation to degrees per radii per km/h?? ) no idea yet.. ths is a rough..
enjoy
pam


EDIT:: But it really messes with dead slow maneuvering.. cant get it below ten knots again without stopping now..

[dougal]

FDE uploaded. it can be found at the bottom of the page at http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?catid=4&sort=h&page=5&pp=20 . enjoy.

Pam

Not sure about that link Pam?

[lazarus]

I'll be trying those out a bit latter. Baking dog cookies ,and the hounds will not let anything else happen in the house untill thats done! I'd never thought of float points as landing gear before reading your explanation, allways just defined the vertical and logitudinal position and left a bunch of zeros in the rest of the definitions. Score another one for the insomniacs! If any one wants dumb ideas, I'm your boy.

[warchild]

Not sure about that link Pam?

Noooo.. i'mm positive 9n the link. What i'm not so positive about is my ability to create a link without screwing something up.

[warchild]

I'll be trying those out a bit latter. Baking dog cookies ,and the hounds will not let anything else happen in the house untill thats done! I'd never thought of float points as landing gear before reading your explanation, allways just defined the vertical and logitudinal position and left a bunch of zeros in the rest of the definitions. Score another one for the insomniacs! If any one wants dumb ideas, I'm your boy.


:::ROFLMAO:: not so dumb an idea.. :) i was so overfocused and overanylized i'd have never caught it..

[CurlSnout]

Downloaded the new FDE and copied in the (even newer) [WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE] and [contact_points] sections.

Lights are now non-existent. Appears due to 2 [LIGHTS] entries, the first of which contains no data. Removed that, and lights are back to the positions set for the PT boat - which don't work for the Schnellboot.

These (below) appear proper, but suggestions/corrections are welcome. I re-positioned the navigation (red and green) lamps to set them into the light boxes atop the rails (I didn't recognize the light boxes for what they are at first - thanks for pointing that out):

[LIGHTS]
//Types: 1=beacon, 2=strobe, 3=navigation, 4=cockpit, 5=landing, 6=taxi, 7=recognition, 8=wing, 9=logo, 10=cabin

light.0=3, 12.48, -0.1, 21.10, fx_navwhih
light.1=3, 25.94, 8.0, 9.31, fx_navgre
light.2=3, 26.10, -8.4, 9.40, fx_navred
light.3=3, 10.44, 0.0, 19.30, fx_navwhih
light.4=3, 10.44, 0.0, 17.10, fx_navwhih
light.5=3, 10.44, 0.0, 15.04, fx_navwhih
light.6=3, -55.59, 0.1, 8.81, fx_navwhih

[warchild]

I honestly have no clue what happened as i ran the program all jight with the lights on and they worked, and yet, after a restart sure as hell, its just as you described.. Its not the first weird thing ive noticed in the last 36 hours either. thanks for catching that.. Time to scan my machine i guess..

[napamule]

Sound? Try this one.
Aviat Husky A-1B - Amphibian Sound package By Aaron R. Swindle. I own the complete rights to this soundwork! All files tagged and coded. Skysong Soundworks. 12/17/2001.

zip file name: 'avhsnd.zip' , 1,270 kb, at FSCom. I like it. Works well in FSX.
Chuck B
Napamule
Edit: Here is my VC 'view' and 'vc light' entry that works.
//----- For S-15 ----------------------------------
[Views]
eyepoint= 19.000, -0.100, 10.660

light.7= 4, 20.00, 0.00, 10.20, fx_vclight_red

[napamule]

Here is set of camera views for the S-15. Just highlight, then right click on highlighted text, then 'copy' text and right click and 'paste' it anywhere in aircraft cfg. Enjoy. These might work good with the PT-Boat also.

[CameraDefinition.0]
Title = "Nose"
Guid = {5c1df273-034b-4e7f-953a-9d5e26f1646d}
Description = Looking backward from the front of the aircraft
Origin = Center
SnapPbhAdjust = Swivel
SnapPbhReturn = FALSE
PanPbhAdjust = Swivel
PanPbhReturn = FALSE
Track = None
ShowAxis = FALSE
AllowZoom = TRUE
InitialZoom = 0.7
ShowWeather = Yes
InitialXyz = 0, 5.0, 40.0
InitialPbh = 5, 0, 180
XyzAdjust = TRUE
Category=Aircraft
MomentumEffect=FALSE //TRUE
ClipMode=Minimum
//
[CameraDefinition.1]
Title = "Right Wing"
Guid = {C690EAFD-223A-42d0-99E0-681ADF93BB59}
Description = View from the right wing tip looking at the cockpit
Origin = Center
SnapPbhAdjust = Swivel
SnapPbhReturn = FALSE
PanPbhAdjust = Swivel
PanPbhReturn = FALSE
Track = None
ShowAxis = FALSE
AllowZoom = TRUE
InitialZoom = 0.5
ShowWeather = Yes
InitialXyz = 30.8, 2.4, -1.0
InitialPbh = 6, 0, 270
XyzAdjust = TRUE
Category=Aircraft
MomentumEffect = FALSE
ClipMode=Minimum
//
[CameraDefinition.2]
Title = "Left Wing"
Guid = {f25dfa2e-fd2e-4b89-81e2-0575cbcb60de}
Description = View from the left wing tip looking at the cockpit
Origin = Center
SnapPbhAdjust = Swivel
SnapPbhReturn = FALSE
PanPbhAdjust = Swivel
PanPbhReturn = FALSE
Track = None
ShowAxis = FALSE
AllowZoom = TRUE
InitialZoom = 0.5
ShowWeather = Yes
InitialXyz = -30.8, 2.4, -1.0
InitialPbh = 6, 0, 90
XyzAdjust = TRUE
Category=Aircraft
MomentumEffect = FALSE //No
ClipMode=Minimum
//
[CameraDefinition.3]
Title = "Right Side Window"
Guid = {54F54B8A-3EC2-2D4E-8D10-B8F9D0F16ACC}
Description = View of the right wing from the passenger cabin
Origin = Center
SnapPbhAdjust = Swivel
SnapPbhReturn = FALSE
PanPbhAdjust = Swivel
PanPbhReturn = FALSE
Track = None
ShowAxis = FALSE
AllowZoom = TRUE
InitialZoom = 0.7
ShowWeather = Yes
InitialXyz = 3.5, 0.75, -10
InitialPbh = 5, 0, 15
XyzAdjust = TRUE
Category=Aircraft
MomentumEffect=FALSE //TRUE
ClipMode=Minimum
//
[CameraDefinition.4]
Title = "Left Side Window"
Guid = {0ae3f864-da10-4e5a-977c-b9bba47d6f7a}
Description = View of the left wing from the passenger cabin
Origin = Center
SnapPbhAdjust = Swivel
SnapPbhReturn = FALSE
PanPbhAdjust = Swivel
PanPbhReturn = FALSE
Track = None
ShowAxis = FALSE
AllowZoom = TRUE
InitialZoom = 0.7
ShowWeather = Yes
InitialXyz = -3.5, 0.75, -10
InitialPbh = 5, 0, 345
XyzAdjust = TRUE
Category=Aircraft
MomentumEffect=FALSE //TRUE
ClipMode=Minimum
//
[CameraDefinition.5]
Title = "Landing Gear"
Guid = {96873AAD-621B-4C45-8A58-DEF7B7FCB051}
Description = View of the landing gear and left wing inboard flaps
Origin = Center
SnapPbhAdjust = Swivel
SnapPbhReturn = FALSE
PanPbhAdjust = Swivel
PanPbhReturn = FALSE
Track = None
ShowAxis = FALSE
AllowZoom = TRUE
InitialZoom = 0.8 //0.3
ShowWeather = Yes
InitialXyz = 0.0, 0.0, -30.0
InitialPbh = 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
XyzAdjust = TRUE
Category=Aircraft
MomentumEffect=FALSE //TRUE
ClipMode=Minimum
//
[CameraDefinition.6]
Title = "Tail"
Guid = {5c1df273-034b-4e7f-953a-9d5e26f1646c}
Description = Looking forward from behind the aircraft
Origin = Center
SnapPbhAdjust = Swivel
SnapPbhReturn = FALSE
PanPbhAdjust = Swivel
PanPbhReturn = FALSE
Track = None
ShowAxis = FALSE
AllowZoom = TRUE
InitialZoom = 0.7
ShowWeather = Yes
InitialXyz = 0, 9.0, -80.0
InitialPbh = 5, 0, 0
XyzAdjust = TRUE
Category=Aircraft
MomentumEffect=FALSE //TRUE
ClipMode=Minimum
//

Chuck B
Napamule

[warchild]

Thanks Chuck.. I've been using sounds from a WWII U-Boat. They translate pretty well, but its not the exact sound i'm looking for ( yeahhh, its gotten that bad ). Stand alone through media player, its a perfect set with that nice throbbing diesel engine chunkyness at the slow end, but as the rpms come up it begins to sound more like a V-8. I want to pull it into sound forge and use it as a base to create a new sound set from it so that its correct at every rpm; not just when i turn it off ::lol:;..

[CurlSnout]

Installing a cockpit/vc light (thanks, Chuck), I looked over the others once again and realized that I had the stern light sitting outside the actual lamp housing (like the light boxes atop the rails for the navigation lights, I failed to recognize this for what it is at first).

This makes that one proper:

light.6=3, -55.89, 0.0, 7.90, fx_navwhih

I'm done with lights. I think.

At this point I've tried three different sound packs:

1) Gary Jones - Four engine Rolls Royce Griffon sound pack
2) Gary Jones - Twin Engine Rolls Royce Merlin sound pack
3) the Aviat Husky A-1B Amphibian Sound Pack that Chuck points to above

My personal preference is for the Shackleton (Four engine Rolls Royce Griffon) sounds. I never lived on boats, but I worked on and ran one for 3 years (mine was much smaller than either the ELCO PT boat or the S-15). These (the Shackleton) sounds, to me anyway, sound the most like a boat and the least like an airplane - to foster the immersion factor. I'm probably also losing my hearing....

cs

[falcon409]

Somewhere around page 7 we left the PT-Boat and moved on. That's the only boat I'm really interested in so can anyone direct me to the last/best FDE that was done for the PT or was the FDE ever done to anyone's satisfaction?

[warchild]

Somewhere around page 7 we left the PT-Boat and moved on. That's the only boat I'm really interested in so can anyone direct me to the last/best FDE that was done for the PT or was the FDE ever done to anyone's satisfaction?


Giveme a couple days Ed.. I want to take some of the new things i learned and appkly them to the PT boat.. Once i've done that, I'll upload it and Pm you as well as put it in here..
Pam

[falcon409]

Sounds good Pam, thanks!

[fxsttcb]

Somewhere around page 7 we left the PT-Boat and moved on. That's the only boat I'm really interested in so can anyone direct me to the last/best FDE that was done for the PT or was the FDE ever done to anyone's satisfaction?
I'm modding Pam's to work to my satisfaction. I never got reverse to work realistically with it, so I'm working on a gearbox gauge that controls the props.
Unfortunately, so far, if I have one engine in forward gear, and another in reverse, to simulate RW boats, it goes nuts. Acts like it's caught in a tornado!. We've all seen it.
I have "Click Spot" Forward, Neutral(Prop "Feathered"), and Reverse working OK as long as all 3 engines are controlled simultaneously

I have Grey and Green 16:9 panels and the instrumentation bitmaps about half done and the code started...Don

Here's a Teaser:

82219

[falcon409]

I'm modding Pam's to work to my satisfaction. I never got reverse to work realistically with it, so I'm working on a gearbox gauge that controls the props.
Unfortunately, so far, if I have one engine in forward gear, and another in reverse, to simulate RW boats, it goes nuts. Acts like it's caught in a tornado!. We've all seen it.
I have "Click Spot" Forward, Neutral(Prop "Feathered"), and Reverse working OK as long as all 3 engines are controlled simultaneously

I have Grey and Green 16:9 panels and the instrumentation bitmaps about half done and the code started...Don

Here's a Teaser:

82219
Yep, can't find the reference now, but I saw those panels on a website somewhere. A different panel for each series change in the PT line. Too bad the PT doesn't have an active VC to work with.

[warchild]

for reverse, increase minimum_Gov_rpm. I think it may work with 9000-10000 but dont quote me on those exact numbers.. It may need higher rpm still.. It may also speed up the boat unrealisticly. if it does, decrease the propellor Thrust_scalar to compensate.

[fxsttcb]

Yep, can't find the reference now, but I saw those panels on a website somewhere. A different panel for each series change in the PT line. Too bad the PT doesn't have an active VC to work with.That's probably the same site where I found it. I was worried about copyright, so, I zoomed in and took a screenie of the 103 series. IIRC, legally, that makes it my work, but, I don't like doing that. Lazy this time...


for reverse, increase minimum_Gov_rpm. I think it may work with 9000-10000 but dont quote me on those exact numbers.. It may need higher rpm still.. It may also speed up the boat unrealisticly. if it does, decrease the propellor Thrust_scalar to compensate.I'm using Bruce Fitzgerald's Donzi(2 engines) as my prototype. I had it working great, then all of a sudden, Neutral and Reverse, but, now no Forward motion.
Using the same gauge, and identical prop entries in the PT, I get forward, but, no reverse. Huh?
Can a *.air file reverse the sense?
If I don't get it nailed down today, I'll wait for your FDE(you're a lot better at that stuff than I am) and continue with Instrumenting it.
For the life of me, I can't figure out how to auto-scale the tachs. I may have to wait for the community's FDE selection and test, then scale the RPM for it with non-linearity entries...Don

[warchild]

Just took a look through bruces config file. I'm amazed. he actually used a piston engine.. Go Bruce :) :) :) ..

he uses min_gov_rpm set to 0.00 i dont believe that will work for a 73 ton boat but who knows. it might.. give it a shot..

Also, in the ait file. yes, there are entries that can help with prop reversal, but you dreally dont want to get into 3D reciprocal equations do you?? Lets find a better way..

also, the tachometers arent part of the fde.. Well, not with piston engines.. With turbines, you can scale the output using table 1508, but that table doesnt exist for piston engines.

[napamule]

For 'reverse' (irregardless of engine type) just add gear to cnt pts. That qualifies it for 'Push Back' (ie: a type of reverse, right? right!) Use my head. I know, you (me?) don't want wheels on a boat, but when nothing else works (ie: for reverse) then Push Back is a good (clean?) alternative that no one can sneeze at. Works for me.
Chuck B
Napamule

[lazarus]

If any one has come in lately looking for the boats, I've had to clean out the buffer here to make room. When every one is happy with FDE's and panels, we will have to get the bits together for the library .In the mean time, for any one looking for the beta file, if need be, I can set it up on media fire. Great looking panel, and nice work all around. An active VC would be nice. Who knows; that could happen latter,and being FSX,it can be added without any problem :salute:

[warchild]

Welll, this may come as a surprise to everyone but i'm not happy with my own fde.. of course, although i applaude the efforts of everyone else to work on the fde's as well and value the suggestions insight and ideas theyve put forward, i'm still not happy.. the schnellboot works wonderfully, forwards backwards, kinda sorta sideways, but the PT is still frustrating me.. bear with me, and us, and i'm sure we'll get it working correctly...

[napamule]

Well I was not feeling well lately but managed to finish the FDEs for the ELCO PT Boat. It has slight roll. It turns on a dime. It has wheels to make it 'eligible' for 'Push Back' (comes in handy). It does not move backwards (ie: no reverse). After all it's piston engines. I could make a turbo prop FDE with strong reverse, but 'Push Back' (shift+P) will do for now. Hope you like these. They are 'odd-ball' FDEs for an 'odd-ball' boat- what can I say.
Chuck B
Napamule

[CurlSnout]

Thanks for this Chuck; hope you are again feeling mighty, or at least more better. Looking forward to trying these later; for now I've just had a quick look.

Quick question: If I decide to enable WEAPONS, do I need to disable LIGHTS?

cs

[stovall]

Thanks Chuck, I got my copy as well. Off to give'm a try.:jump:

[warchild]

Thanks for this Chuck; hope you are again feeling mighty, or at least more better. Looking forward to trying these later; for now I've just had a quick look.

Quick question: If I decide to enable WEAPONS, do I need to disable LIGHTS?

cs

You shouldnt need to cs. You can set weapons up as effects rather than lights.

[napamule]

cs,
I, me, and myself, do comment out ('//') the regular 'lights' section, but have found that FSX will only use the 1st instance of 'Lights' listed in aircraft.cfg. So 'yes' (to be formal) and 'no' (as the 2nd instace of 'Lights' is not 'seen' by FSX engine). Take your plick. Funny how details like this reveal the 'inner workings' of the sim.

As far as weapons effects go I did not 'filter' or sort them. These are by Irwin Welker. I just put the whole thing 'as is' and tap 'L' key on/off quicky to enable the 'dept charge' (when moving cruise speed-look behind you). At the same time it produces an explosion aprox 5 miles ahead of you, too. Just fun anyway. The 'O' key (strobe) will fire a forward facing gun, but did not place into proper position (forgot, sorry). Cheers.
Chuck B
Napamule

[napamule]

ELKO PT Boat: March 8, 2013

Here are some 'enhancements' for the ELKO. The 2 cnt pt lines add some more handling on turns, etc plus it aids the 'wake/spray' effects that you use.

The weapons are just for fun. I left the lights functional with only addition of a wing gun which requires you to use 'O' (oh) key which is 'strobe' key to fire. Then I used the (smoke) section for Torpedo hit, Shell hit, and Dept Charge hit/explosion(s). Use one (smokesystem) and comment the other 2 or it will not work ass intended (pun intended-ha). This was a 'quickie' edit so it may not be 'perfect'. So sue me (ha).

I also include 2 meathods (pictures) showing 2 ways to set your 'range' for getting more accuracy for your torpedo explosion.

And please slow (or at least cut the throttle for 2 seconds) start turn, then 'punch it' (full throttle) to complete your turn. You can use the flaps to slow down quick (also aids in stoping to '0 kts'). At full speed a turn without you slowing (or cutting throttle) WILL make boat tip over (dah) as in 'real'. And the same goes for quickly changing direction (on turns)-cut throttle, use the rudder, and hit full throttle to complete. Simple dimple. Enjoy.

Chuck B
Napamule
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(cnt pts) add these 2 lines:
point.8=4, 12.00, -4.600, -0.800, 14500, 0, 0.600, 40.0, 0.100, 4.5, 1.000, 0.000, 0.000, 4.000
point.9=4, 12.00, 4.600, -0.800, 14500, 0, 0.600, 40.0, 0.100, 4.5, 1.000, 0.000, 0.000, 4.000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[LIGHTS] //---Light 4 is 'wing guns' - use 'O' (strobe) to fire ----
//Types: 1=beacon, 2=strobe, 3=navigation, 4=cockpit, 5=landing, 6=taxi, 7=recognition, 8=wing, 9=logo, 10=cabin
light.0=3, -39.00, 0.00, 6.57, fx_navwhih
light.1=3, -5.24, 0.00, 18.09, fx_navwhih
light.2=3, 6.84, 4.40, 8.64, fx_navgre
light.3=3, 6.84, -4.33, 8.64, fx_navred
light.4=2, 2.20, 4.40, 13.00, fx_Wing_Guns //use 'O' (strobe) to 'fire'
//

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[SMOKESYSTEM] //--------------TORPEDO + EXPLOSION ------------------
////----------- Press "I" to activate --------------------------------
smoke.0= 15000.0, 0.0, 10.0, fx_torpedo, //explosion time delayed-(3 miles)
//

//[SMOKESYSTEM] //--------------SHELL HIT -------------------------------------
////----------- Press "I" to activate --------------------------------
//smoke.0= -7610.0, 0.0, 10.0, fx_ShellHit, //Aprox 1 1/2 miles to rear
//

//[SMOKESYSTEM] //--- DEPT CHARGE -- to rear ----------------------------
////----------- Press "I" to activate --------------------------------
//smoke.0= -2250.0, -1.0, 10.0, fx_Wasserbombe, // depth charge
//smoke.1= -2320.0, 0.0, 20.0, fx_Wasserbombe, // depth charge
//smoke.2= -2400.0, 2.0, 30.0, fx_Wasserbombe, // depth charge
//smoke.3= -2480.0, -3.0, 20.0, fx_Wasserbombe, // depth charge
//smoke.4= -2700.0, 4.0, 10.0, fx_gndexpl_l, // U-boat hit
//smoke.5= -2710.0, 0.0, 10.0, fx_ShellHit,
//

[fxsttcb]

Well, it took forever, it seems, but, I'm doggone close to what I wanted to do.
With a little practice, I can now actually "Back and Fill" this baby into a slip, or, nose in and back out.
Forward idles at ~8knots, Reverse min speed is ~3 knots.

From either Fwd or Rev, Shifting into "Neutral" feathers the props and kills the engines, so only the drag of the props reduces directional momentum.
Neutral is the only Gear selection that needs a mouse click to activate, but, once in Neutral, you need to select Forward or Reverse to Start the engines again.
Feathering the Props, to achieve neutral, would allow runaway engine RPM, with no way to control it except kill the engines.
Forward and Reverse will work with a controller that is capable of negative throttle positions(FSUIPC) or keyboard F1/2/3/4 inputs.
I don't have a controller that has reverse, so, the Reverse Gear click code is the same as keying single presses of F1(cut)...F2(decrease)...F3(Increase small). Going to Fwd from Reverse only requires Controller Fwd or the F1 key.

If the engines are dead; Shifting into "Forward" sets the pitch to min, and starts all engines simultaneously. Once the engines get above 500rpm they are governed and pitch goes to max.
Same for going from "Neutral" to Reverse. There are no individual Starters. That just gave me the old caught in a tornado effect when an outboard engine was started alone.

If the engines are running, Throttling/Shifting into Forward or Reverse acts close to the RW.
Except, clicking my Gear Selector Gauge Cuts the throttle to idle for FWD, and sets min Reverse throttle for REV, regardless of controller position. The instant you move your controller it goes to the controller's position.
Being a RW boater{2750 Ciera Sunbridge and F32 Trojan (WIP on cradles)}, "idling" the engines before engaging/changing gears is ingrained.

Unfortunately, the Throttle/Tranny and Engine's gauges only work properly with my FDE.
I tried to make 'em universal. No Dice. But, if you guys wanna use another FDE, I can help with RPM and MP calibrations.

I haven't yet figured out how to make the engine sound's "Idle" in neutral. I've done a few custom sounds with Doug Dawsons Sound gauge, so, a sound suite will be the next thing I attack.

I'm about ready to package up the panels(Weapons Controls?, see below)
So far, the panels are for 16:9/10 Monitors, and I made bitmaps and panel.cfgs for 4:3 monitors.
The Anchor Light, Stern lights, and Nav Lights(Bright/Dim) now have seperate control switches.
It has an Anchor Haul/Set Control, but, you must be dead in the water when the Anchor is "Set" or when "Hauled" any momentum captured by "FREEZE_LATITUDE_LONGITUDE_TOGGLE" is cumulative.
Hauling the anchor will resume the captured momentum at an accelerated rate.
I don't know enough about the SDK GPS variables to capture the position and X-Y-Z acceleration data and set them to the "Anchored" position with zero acceleration...Yet...

As for Weapons Controls Using [LIGHTS], I have Taxi, Logo, and Cabin still free.
I can make a gauge with "Fire" buttons for it if you folks want them.
What "Labels" would you like? "Fore 50"? "Port Forward Tube"? lemme know.

I made new effects for a Smoke Screen, Anchor, and Stern lights.
Smoke Screen? I didn't know squat about making effects, but, with the help of the SDK Effects tool, I made a big one! Ya gotta be movin' at 15knots or better to keep ahead of it...Don

More Teasers:

All Stop
82626

Grey Panel
82627

Green Panel showing some "Roll"
82628

My attempt at a Smoke Screen
82629

[CurlSnout]

This looks wonderful, amazing, and super-deluxe! I keep flipping between this page and page #1 of the thread, comparing the precursor to this model that you have transformed. I'm going to stop messing around with the one I've got (I keep breaking it and fixing it and breaking it again - stumbling blindly around inside the cfg and air files) and wait (patiently) for yours to become available. Thanks in advance.

[familton]

Thanks Don. It looks and sounds fantastic. Bob.

[napamule]

fxsttcb,
Where did you get the 'roll'? Just wondering. You sure got it 'together' (and puts me to shame). Excellent work on panel. Over my head with the gauges. In fact, it's just too much for me and I would no doubt just use another panel (sorry).

Is your throttle gauge new? I seem to recall the Kevlacat fishing boat (By Deane Robson-for FS2002) had some sort of shift of 'gears' (forward/reverse) and it worked good. ((('To go FWD push "Ctrl+ F1" and then "F4": to reverse push "Ctrl+ F4" and then "F4"))). Aparently some simmers never did 'figure' this one (key combos) out and went without any gear shifting. They missed the boat (hehe).
Chuck B
Napamule
PS: CurlSnout,
The reason MIGHT be because this thread has both the ELCO and the Schnellboot in here. You must keep them apart as the FDE for one will not work for the other. Sort of the 'Ides Of March' is working on this thread-and you're IT! (just kidding).

[fxsttcb]

Chuck, The screenie with that much roll is from an earlier FDE. I used AAM v2 to set CLdr(Roll Moment-Rudder), and CYdr(Side Force-Rudder), to tune that.
I can get that much roll working pretty good at lower speeds, but, with anywhere near full rudder, and within a few knots of top speed, it imparts way too much drag.
That added drag drops the boat off plane, and digs the bow in, creating even more drag. Reducing that Yaw derived drag, only serves to make it slide to the side more, loosening the already wide turns.
I'm only using a couple of degrees of roll now. PT Boats did roll a bit, but, not a whole lot. Finding out exactly how much has proven pretty tough. Gonna hafta watch some McHale's Navy reruns!
Right now, I'm fooling with Yaw's Side Slip forces to try and line the model up better in the turns, without adding drag. Then maybe I can figure out a balance of side slip vs roll.

My panel is pretty functional. The gauges are all brand new. Most are completely from scratch. A lot of the bitmaps are hand painted and/or modded from screenshots I took on the net. GIMP, PaintDotNet, and MSPaint are the tools.

The Throttle/Gear selector was tough. Getting the Gear knobs to follow Controller and Keyboard inputs without creating a code looping condition gave me a headache! :sleep:
'twas worth it though. Once Forward or Reverse is selected, the engines are running, and your controller or keyboard is all that is necessary to drive it...Don

[dougal]

Hi all
I'm more a little confused (don't take much) now. There's so much going on in here, I don't know what's current.

is there a currently working boat to download?

[lazarus]

The boat is not. I've been delinquent-work, too many projects competing for to little attention. I will, before the end of the day set up the boats on mediafire and post the link. To this end , I promise the pound of flesh nearest your heart.

[warchild]

I think ( at this point that Lazarus came up with the only idea that may work for roll.. You need to adjust the suspension in the contacts area of the config file. Thats what works on the schnellboot ( all three or four degrees of it ) but its also a natural roll to the outside of the turn. I dont know if you can set the suspension up to roll it to theinside, but i'd place bets you can..

[fxsttcb]

I think I'm doing the same thing. 6 contact points for the floats. 1 fore, 1 aft on CL, 0.15(ft) lower than the 4 outboard floats. That gave a pleasant surprise too! It gives a slight rolling motion to it.
The touch of roll that I added in the *.air file keeps it from rolling outside on turns. Very slightly to the inside.
No matter what I've tried, the yaw drag still slows it down enough to be an annoyance.

I flipped the Rudder Sensitivity curve, from bell to valley, so it is easier to do high speed low rate turns. Seems to work better for me.

Any ideas on how to increase the rudder control "only" at low(<7 knots) speed? Water Rudder?
That may take auto engagement only at low speed, so, it doesn't interfere with higher speed turns. Off to try that...Don

[warchild]

yes.. I found for myself that changes in the airfile had very little or no effect whatsover except for Yaw, mach drag, and mach tuck ( 1101, 154a, & 430 ). unfirtunately, i became quite ill and just didnt have the time to keep delving into it.

OH, and want a hoot?? I set the bottom of the boat up to act as a wing. You can increase the lift of that wing, move the center of lift forward, and reduce ground effects to pull the nose of the boat out of the water on cue at the exact place it needs to come out of the water..

[lazarus]

http://www.mediafire.com/?1ebry2b6df2m8s4


3 Elco boats, Sboot, 2 OSA I's. These still have the first FDE versions, so you'll have to find the latest revisions. Eyepoints are off for the Sboot and OSA's. CTRL and or SHIFT + back arrow or forward arrow to adjust.

[warchild]

Any ideas on how to increase the rudder control "only" at low(<7 knots) speed? Water Rudder?
That may take auto engagement only at low speed, so, it doesn't interfere with higher speed turns. Off to try that...Don

let me know how that staggered height between floats works for you..
Now for the not so easy to believe bits.. :( someone always slams me when i share stuff ive directly experimented on.. ) 2 major factors you have to keep in mind with FSX..
1. there is no water
2. there is no air.
there are only numbers representing a quantity and viscosity of a fluid. So as far as a rudder goes on a boat, it will have some effect at higher speeds but unless you really tweak the rudder efficiency table ( seven positions only and thats the problem ) the rudder ( main ) has no effect whatsoever at 7knts. Water rudders?? I have one in the schnellboot fde. its fairly useless, and on my machine poressing the water rudder button all day didnt do a thing.. still, i left it in for good measure.
Your real rudders ( yes, plural ) are your floats. Jeez, maybe i should PM this so i dont spoil everybodies fantasies. i know it spoiled mine, but, oh well..
You have six elongated keels running down the sides of the hull, AND, they rotate. Perhaps only ten degrees, perhaps 20 but they rotate. Each of those has a keel. Those keels are your rudders. Now, your going to have to play a bit and settle in for an intelectual journey into the bizaar. Really it gets weird..
the entry you need to work with in the config file is the contacts entry, the sub entries for that are 7, 8, 9, and 10. Specifically Each of those is going to have to be balanced to each other one. The most important that your looking for ( the key ) is sub entry 10 ( dampening and water rudder effectiveness ). Although floats are not water rudders per se, since they turn, FSX sees them as water rudders and will calculate them in accordingly. increasing the value of subentry 10 will increase their effectiveness, decreasing that value will make the boat a bit more sloggish. Too low and you'll roll over on your back.
If you can afford it, I highly recommend making a printout of the PT's three view, then use a ruler divided into 16ths or MM's to get the correct scale for the drawing.
Now it gets weird..
Remember that you have two waterlines on this boat. the first is located appriox. one half the way from the bottom of the keel to the top of the deck. the second is where the floats need to be, just below the top of the red paint at the center of the boat. Since the deck is the only thing flat, measure the fsx waterline ( in the middle ) from the deck down. That should also mark the FSX reference datum point, but for that your gonna have to double check with another trick. In the openeing screens selection window, place a piece of paper over the image of the rotating boat, and draw an X from each of the top corners to the bottom corners. Wherever that X meets in the middle on the boat, is the reference datum position that was put there by the modeler.. mark that point on your thre view and adjust your reference datum point in the config file away from that point, so that it rests either at the absolute center of the boat, or at the very front of the boat below the tip of the bow.
Once you have your reference datum position calculated, make all your distance measurments from that point, except for the static CG height which is measured from the bottom of the keel to the reference datum point.
I know it sounds like a lot of work, but it really isnt. and it will give you exact placement of those floats so that you can proceed to change their dynamics with confidence. Just make sure that the static CG is higher than the floats and you should be ok.. And remember, the higher the static CG, the less stable the boat becomes ( kinda like a monster truck ).
And i do apologize for what seems to be a tome. I'm afraid i'm still running a very high fever and tending to babble a lot..
Pam

PS:: ( and this is where it gets tricky and i apologize for forgetting to add it ) if you lower the CG of the boat you must also lower the static CG height. where it gets tricky is that the static CG height, cannot be lower than the floats, and therefore, the cg cannot be lower than the floats. in aboat like the PT where the engines are liocated below the waterline (the painted waterline ) and weighing in at a combined six thousand pounds, its real tempting to give it a very low CG. But dont do it.. keep the cg and static CG above the painted waterline.

[warchild]

http://www.mediafire.com/?1ebry2b6df2m8s4


3 Elco boats, Sboot, 2 OSA I's. These still have the first FDE versions, so you'll have to find the latest revisions. Eyepoints are off for the Sboot and OSA's. CTRL and or SHIFT + back arrow or forward arrow to adjust.

I thought i fixed the eyepoint to be directly behind the window and wheel in the wheelhouse, orrr, did you choose to use a different FDE??

[roger-wilco-66]

let me know how that staggered height between floats works for you..
Now for the not so easy to believe bits.. :( someone always slams me when i share stuff ive directly experimented on.. ) 2 major factors you have to keep in mind with FSX..
1. there is no water
2. there is no air.
there are only numbers representing a quantity and viscosity of a fluid. So as far as a rudder goes on a boat, it will have some effect at higher speeds but unless you really tweak the rudder efficiency table ( seven positions only and thats the problem ) the rudder ( main ) has no effect whatsoever at 7knts. Water rudders?? I have one in the schnellboot fde. its fairly useless, and on my machine

[...]




Wow PAM. This is an epic post. Never saw some the FDE dynamics better explained. I have to save this for a future reference.
My hat's off.

Cheers,
Mark

[strikehawk]

http://www.mediafire.com/?1ebry2b6df2m8s4


3 Elco boats, Sboot, 2 OSA I's. These still have the first FDE versions, so you'll have to find the latest revisions. Eyepoints are off for the Sboot and OSA's. CTRL and or SHIFT + back arrow or forward arrow to adjust.

I don't know if I'm going to have more boats than helos installed, but I can say this.... I'm having a lot of fun in FSX now. I can't wait until I get Prepared for my B-day in may, from what I've been told and read the water acts like water, now that should make difference.
Thanks guys and lady:salute:

[warchild]

I don't know if I'm going to have more boats than helos installed, but I can say this.... I'm having a lot of fun in FSX now. I can't wait until I get Prepared for my B-day in may, from what I've been told and read the water acts like water, now that should make difference.
Thanks guys and lady:salute:

:::LOL:: Whats with us taurus's and our bloody big guns?? Will have to compare birthdays, maybe hold an online party.. Aerobatics with a shot of scotch ::lol:;

@Mark.
Thanks mark.. I was kinda at a place of disperity. My printers out of ink and it costs over a hundred dollars to fill it so i cant print out my blueprints :(, and I'm also so sick i still cant see straight, but i wanted to give the folks something they could use that was concrete to work from.. I wont say its the only way to do it, but its what ive done with every model since the beginning back in 2004. Only hopefully i'm a bit better at it now :).. At least the PT is in great hands, and i've got S-100 about 85% completed and the redwing about 90% with the blueprints printed thankfully.. They were the last my printer would do.. maybe by my birthday i'll be able to get more ink :).. that would be cool :)..

[napamule]

So we got 55.5 Mg of WHAT? The models? We had that already, I do believe. So now what?

And the Static_Height is simply the height that your ac will lift UP to when you press the 'Y' key (slew) and is ALSO the HEIGHT that FSX will PLACE your AC on initial loading. If the wheel or float is '-3.000' then the static_height s/b '+3.200' so as to raise the ac and 'clear' those cnt pts (placement) in relation to the surface (land or water).

Try making static_height '-3.000' and see what happens. So it CAN'T be negative. And making it '2.900' is not negative, it's just not enough to clear the surface (land or water). Make it '0.200' more than vertical pos of cnt pt (in this case '3.200') and be done with it. No 'need' to draw lines unless you want to practice your doodling in paint.

I believe there should be a different thread for each boat so as to best put together a good set of FDE's (with por/con input for each) to iron out the 'experimental' -vs- 'established' values THAT WORK BEST for the 3 different cnt pts for each model. Mix and match ain't going to cut it.
Chuck B
Napamule

[lazarus]

Folks wanted the models. As the FDE's are still in a state of flux, and there are other things still to come for the boats; coupled with time(work.work.taxes.work.15 other FSX projects and betas) I simply jammed the boat models in basic containers with the first edition FDE. You will have to display some initiative and some adaptability, round up the other bits and go. Cannot do it all.

[fxsttcb]

...let me know how that staggered height between floats works for you...

Thanks for all your help, Pam. I've tweaked quite a bit on planes, never a boat, and I'm loving the learning experience with this one.
I'm a numbers guy too. I just gotta know. I added a few digital test gauges to my panel and went into testing mode.

Rockin' and Rollin' effect with staggered floats(0.15ft):
+-0.68deg peak, dead in the water, up to ~30 knots, where it starts settling in to +-0.21deg peak, Full tilt(48-50 knots).
The effect varies from 1.5 to 4.0deg, depending on wind and waves, during 40-42 knot max rate turns. Always to the inside now too.

With the FDE I've been using(based on your RC2), setting 20, 25, and 30deg, on the floats(Pos #7), with no Water Rudder, gave widely varying turns. Changing the effectivity(Pos #10) worked similar to steering angle changes.
At times the turns were more skid than heading change. That could be due to my *.air changes of; Cl_dr(Roll Moment-Rudder), Cn_dr(Yaw Moment-Rudder), CY_beta(Side force, Sideslip), and CY_p(Side force Roll Rate?).

My best all around turning capability came with; zero steering angle in the Floats, and 25 degrees setting in an added Water Rudder(Effectivity=1.0).
I tested Max turn rates(Fwd) with a stopwatch vs compass. Below is the average of my best 3 turns each, Right and Left.
550rpm displayed(0% throttle, 3-8knots): ~150deg/minute. Wind and waves really affected this. As you said SPEED! 700-800RPM, indicated, starts giving me much better turn rate, but, still slow enough to maneuver around tighter spaces.
1000rpm displayed(~30% throttle / ~15knots): 450deg/minute
1500rpm displayed(~50% throttle / ~25knots): 570deg/minute
2000rpm displayed(~75% throttle / ~35knots): 520deg/minute
2400rpm displayed(~100% throttle / ~42knots): 400deg/minute

I did note that wind and waves(Weather themes give differing pitch/roll changes) had quite an effect on all of my tests.

I'm still working on manual engine start/run/stop gauges, and tweaking "transmission" functionality. Auto Start/Stop work good. As does the throttle and tranny selector following controller/keyboard commands.
I'm hoping I can get individual forward/reverse working without creating a whirlpool.
I've got it back to where it works pretty good on a single outboard engine in fwd or rev.
******************

More awesome addtions to my FSX boating repertoire, laz! Thank You, very much. Very much indeed...Don

[napamule]

Ok. So we need to 'finish' making FDEs for these boats. And as long as one IDENTIFIES which boat the FDEs belong to, then we should be ok.

Here is a short video showing ('off') the low speed manouvering ability of a PT-Boat in FSX. Show it going forward and backwards at low rpm / low speed with only rudder and REAR cnt pts (only) having 'steer angle' of '30.0' in cnt pts and NO 'water rudder' use. Here is a boat that will do 40 kts and yet can 'inch' up to pier/dock with ease. It (virtually) has a transmission with INSTANT 'Fwrd' or 'Reverse'. I'm too good (hehe).
Link:http://youtu.be/JKl6CePpJNA .
Chuck B
Napamule

[warchild]

Thanks for all your help, Pam. I've tweaked quite a bit on planes, never a boat, and I'm loving the learning experience with this one.
I'm a numbers guy too. I just gotta know. I added a few digital test gauges to my panel and went into testing mode.

Rockin' and Rollin' effect with staggered floats(0.15ft):
+-0.68deg peak, dead in the water, up to ~30 knots, where it starts settling in to +-0.21deg peak, Full tilt(48-50 knots).
The effect varies from 1.5 to 4.0deg, depending on wind and waves, during 40-42 knot max rate turns. Always to the inside now too.

With the FDE I've been using(based on your RC2), setting 20, 25, and 30deg, on the floats(Pos #7), with no Water Rudder, gave widely varying turns. Changing the effectivity(Pos #10) worked similar to steering angle changes.
At times the turns were more skid than heading change. That could be due to my *.air changes of; Cl_dr(Roll Moment-Rudder), Cn_dr(Yaw Moment-Rudder), CY_beta(Side force, Sideslip), and CY_p(Side force Roll Rate?).

My best all around turning capability came with; zero steering angle in the Floats, and 25 degrees setting in an added Water Rudder(Effectivity=1.0).
I tested Max turn rates(Fwd) with a stopwatch vs compass. Below is the average of my best 3 turns each, Right and Left.
550rpm displayed(0% throttle, 3-8knots): ~150deg/minute. Wind and waves really affected this. As you said SPEED! 700-800RPM, indicated, starts giving me much better turn rate, but, still slow enough to maneuver around tighter spaces.
1000rpm displayed(~30% throttle / ~15knots): 450deg/minute
1500rpm displayed(~50% throttle / ~25knots): 570deg/minute
2000rpm displayed(~75% throttle / ~35knots): 520deg/minute
2400rpm displayed(~100% throttle / ~42knots): 400deg/minute

I did note that wind and waves(Weather themes give differing pitch/roll changes) had quite an effect on all of my tests.

I'm still working on manual engine start/run/stop gauges, and tweaking "transmission" functionality. Auto Start/Stop work good. As does the throttle and tranny selector following controller/keyboard commands.
I'm hoping I can get individual forward/reverse working without creating a whirlpool.
I've got it back to where it works pretty good on a single outboard engine in fwd or rev.
******************

More awesome addtions to my FSX boating repertoire, laz! Thank You, very much. Very much indeed...Don

I'm going to make a suggestion.. now that you have concrete measurments ( my RC2 was done without schematics btw. no printer ink ) remove the middle set of floats ( comment them out ) Once those are commented out, move the front set of floats to just either side of the keel ( like a snow mobile )and reduce their turn radius to 20. Then reduce the turn radius of the rear set to 10 ( or even 5 as i never experimented with that ). I know it seems bizaar steering from the front ( told you it'd get weird ) but it works. Dont worry about the speed of the boat at this moment. We know it goes fast enough, but getting it to go the correct speeds is a bit of voodoo combining longitudinal and vertical placement of the props, the diameter of the prop, the thrust rating on the prop ( waters 764 times more dense than air ), the efficiency of the prop ( not something we should have to play with but might ) the mach drag and mach tuck of the boat. I'm also wondering about entries 7-10 in the contacts panel. Twice now I've stumbled across a way to keep the boat from coming up on step which is what we want because we can make it more realistic at that point using the lift on the wing ( yes, it has a wing ) and the ground effects table .
I'm going to run off and make a small demo video with the schnellboot as a demo for what we're looking for..

[warchild]

So we got 55.5 Mg of WHAT? The models? We had that already, I do believe. So now what?

And the Static_Height is simply the height that your ac will lift UP to when you press the 'Y' key (slew) and is ALSO the HEIGHT that FSX will PLACE your AC on initial loading. If the wheel or float is '-3.000' then the static_height s/b '+3.200' so as to raise the ac and 'clear' those cnt pts (placement) in relation to the surface (land or water).

Try making static_height '-3.000' and see what happens. So it CAN'T be negative. And making it '2.900' is not negative, it's just not enough to clear the surface (land or water). Make it '0.200' more than vertical pos of cnt pt (in this case '3.200') and be done with it. No 'need' to draw lines unless you want to practice your doodling in paint.

I believe there should be a different thread for each boat so as to best put together a good set of FDE's (with por/con input for each) to iron out the 'experimental' -vs- 'established' values THAT WORK BEST for the 3 different cnt pts for each model. Mix and match ain't going to cut it.
Chuck B
Napamule

Napa. I'm giving them the safest and least painful way of making the boats/planes/whatever do what they want them to do. maintaining the static CG with the internal CG will simplify things and make the process a whole lot smoother, because perhaps with airplanes, hight out of the water may not mean much, but here it means a great deal. We're possibly going to need to change static cg to adjust the low end speed of the boat ( yes it DOES play a part ) and thats gonna get hairy enough.
at the moment in this thread there is only one boat being worked on and thats the PT. The other boats are mentioned and i'm using the my schnellboot as an example of what "can" be done. It certainly isnt a complete example as there's lots of room for improvement everywhere, but its a light year ahead of the PT, and I believe relevant to what is being done on the PT at the moment.

[warchild]

you tube says the video will be uploaded in 11 hours.. slow network today.. sorry..

[napamule]

Warcchild,
You said: '..change static cg to adjust the low end speed of the boat...'. What you don't realize is that you are not ADJUSTING anything. You are merely moving the cnt pts OUT OF THE DIRT/WATER and thus you 'see' (apparent) effect on 'low speed'. If your cnt pts are TOO DEEP then you will 'bog down' (dah) AND you thus can 'assumbe' that the low speed is improved/adjusted. But you are just allowing the boat to skim on surface and not be mired in the mud.

I set the wheels (type.1 cnt pts) to, let's say -3.500', and then I set the 'static_cg_height' to '3.650' and then I set the floats to '2.650' (max-as it's a '1 ft' step/jump from wheel to float) and then I 'tune' the 'piston engine' and 'prop' sections for any 'low speed' adjustments. Not the cnt pts.

And by 'cg' I hope you mean the 'static_cg_height' in cnt pts and not the 'empty_weight_CG_position' in the (Weight and Balance) section. And anything other than '0.000' for the vertical value would just plain complicate things (as is where I would quit and go home).
Chuck B
Napamule
PS: I just clicked on the link and it showed the video. YouTube is now (trying to shove) showing videos thru html5 which is mainly a google chrome crap feature (which I am sure tracks and calls home) but your browser (IE or FireFox) is not yet set up for that. Morons. I guess I am going to have to go to a file hosting site to post videos. Phooey on YT. Media Fire comes to mind.

[warchild]

Chuck. i'm speaking from direct experience thats less than three weeks old. It is NOT the entire solution, but it is part of the solution. and i'm sorry. I will not put wheels on boats unless they're aqua cars. And yeah, please forgive the abruptness but i'll put the empty weight CG anywhere i bloody well feel like if it accomplishes the job it needs to accomplish. Please dont try to restrict me to your ideals. I'd rather work along side you like i do everyone else. And please pardon me if i'm a bit terse, but i'm still running well over a one hundred degree fever and had to deal with some rather unpleasant people today. I'm a bit agitated. Its my perception that you have tried to rip everything ive tried to share apart. Do you have something against me personally or can we drop this excursion and make a boat??
As for your edits? they're impeccable. however, the video thats uploading will show that you do not need wheels nor pushback, nor do you have to suffer with the "float" coming up on step. no more popping up out of the water. just a gentle and realistic rise. Fxsttcb appears to know his way around engines better than i do, and i trust him to be able to integrate our ( yours mine ours ) raw data on prop settings and altitude into an effective and realistic FDE.

380 minutes before the video is uploaded. ::sigh::

The CG ( both Static and empty weight ) are relational variables. Depending on what your trying to accomplish, you can do anything you want with them, provided you midify the relational dependencies to counter or support what your doing with the empty weight CG.
You can put the empty weight CG half a mile to the left and a mile high, provided you balance it out in the opposite polarity. Thats how we made the camel fly.. The CG is high ( but below the primary wing ) and very slightly offset to the left, while the engine was moved low and to the right. Its not as complex or as much of a can of worms as you may think, provided you work out your relationships first so that you have a clear path to follow. dont run away.. Come n in, the waters fine.. besides, no, we arent going to do anything funny with the cg. however, after you all see the video, you may want to rethink the way you look at entries 7 8 9 and 10 in the contacts table. to be honest, I've achieved a clean lift effect exactly four times during editing, and i havent got a clue what i did. If you can get the boat to ride perfectly smooth and flat, I can adjust the center of lift and ground effects to pull the nose up exactly the way it should.

Annnd, for your amusement ( if nothing else ) while waiting for the video to upload, heres a link to my you tube channel.. Enjoy :) http://www.youtube.com/user/urushira?feature=mhee

[lazarus]

Pam, take a break, drink some hot spiced rum, and get better! The boats will still be here. Its been a fascinating development cycle, you have certainly provided me a rapid spool-up on the subject of FDE's.
Sorry for the terse posts earlier, but I purly detest that verdamned iphone and texting. Again, I uploaded the bare bones boats for development purposes as is, because I've just not had enough time to devote to organizing all the bits and bobs-no point untill its all finalized. When every one is happy with panels, lights, configs, ect, I would very much like to gather it all up and organize a proper package for the library- models, paints, FDE's and weapons. So, when every one is happy with their bits and bobs, post here, PM me , and we will get this all organized. It would be great if Usio would surface, or at least read his Email, too.

[warchild]

Pam, take a break, drink some hot spiced rum, and get better! The boats will still be here. Its been a fascinating development cycle, you have certainly provided me a rapid spool-up on the subject of FDE's.
Sorry for the terse posts earlier, but I purly detest that verdamned iphone and texting. Again, I uploaded the bare bones boats for development purposes as is, because I've just not had enough time to devote to organizing all the bits and bobs-no point untill its all finalized. When every one is happy with panels, lights, configs, ect, I would very much like to gather it all up and organize a proper package for the library- models, paints, FDE's and weapons. So, when every one is happy with their bits and bobs, post here, PM me , and we will get this all organized. It would be great if Usio would surface, or at least read his Email, too.

Youd probably wouldnt believe that i dont know what resting is ::LOL::.. Afraid working is all i know. but a good game of fable fallout or skyrim is always welcome until i can afford the new tomb raider and TES Online. but to be honest, it really bugs me that i cant concentrate on numbers at all right now.. That alone is very disheartening. Still, its provided an opportunity to watch new talent come forward and do things and more experienced people to step to the front and finally get some recognition themselves. besides, over all its giving us an opportunity to develop and explore new ways of using FSX that have heretofore been neglected and for the most part ignored. Its quite exciting for me :)..
::LOL:: 198 minutes till the video finishes uploading..

The thing with Usio is that he either is unaware of your attempts to contact him; He is refusing to respond; or he is unable to respond.
If a reasonable amount of time passes, or if either of the last two contingencies are true, theres a choice we need to make. We can either develop our own from scratch which comes with a plethora of complications such as, who among us is a top notch modeler, OR we start with a semi concrete base model such as here (http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/german-schnellboot-s-boot-e-boat-max/405376)and develop it from there, OR we dont step up to the plate and let it go as is.. We're in a niche area of FSX that is possibly the tiniest and most neglected niche that there is. Theres no money to be made here, but, especially in the military venue, boats represent a very broad aspect of history from the Peloponnese to present day. it needs to be represented effectively in fsx and P3D.

[warchild]

OK, so, as promised. heres the video of the schnellboot being put through some paces. Keep in mind that it doesnt matter what boat it is because they will all share certain behavioral characteristics just the way everone has noses and fingerprints. Also keep in mind, this is far far far from perfect. its merely a demonstration and a glimpse into possibilities. I currently have the boat rolling at 66 knots on my system and its a solid roll which is burying the scupper ( which fsx doesnt like ). so the possibilities exist for any boat. its just a matter of learning to do it. Pushback was not used at the end of the clip. watch the speeds indicated in the upper left ( you may have to full screen it ).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLhSGuAsvpw&feature=youtu.be

[CrisGer]

The Elco link in the opening post is not working is there a new link? thanks great to see the little boats getting their inning. I found the S Boot i think. Is it all finished?

I have been onboard an S Boat so will check the model out which is Usio's i believe he did a good job on it shape wise.

Elco is his too i assume? Color was off but boat looked good. Most working PTs were gray even late into the war, the green was an occasional thing and depended on the skipper who had the last word. Many did individual enhancements.

[napamule]

Chris,
The files for PT-Boat are derived from several zips. One is scenery and the other is Erwin Welker's work. They are:

(1). 'solomonislands1943traffic18.zip', 30.5 Mb, 10-27-2010. Inside you will find models by different modelers (Barnes, Crowther, Fitch, Fitzgerald (Bruce), Garcia, Jeffers (Ron). This zip was put together by David Wilson-Okamura. Inside is the 'pt-65 class' PT-Boat files. Extract using folder names to a temp folder. Then you will need an aircraft.cfg and a panel (in fsx if there is no panel there is no 'visual model' to load).

(2). Download 'fx_pt-boat.zip' from FSCom. It's 1.7 Mb, 04-07-2012, and has 'features' by Erwin Welker for the above 'pt-65 class' pt boat. The original modeler is Jim Dhaenens. Welker adds panel, deck views and 'weapons'.

(3). Then go fetch my FDEs for this boat ('ptboat_xr.zip') found on page 11 of this thread, and dated March 5, 2013. Make do with that until Pam puts out (snicker-snicker) and comes up with a different set of FDEs. I am now ONLY an observer- for the sake of peace & quiet.


:mix-smi:


Chuck B
Napamule

[warchild]

No, the S-boot is not finished yet. sorry. There are actually two S-boots, but i believe the one your asking about is the S-15 developed by Usio some time ago. I just passed a new S-boot fde to Lazarus this morning for his testing. If testing goes well, we'll move forward on it and I'll convert it for the PT. As I mentioned above, Fxsttab appears to have a good handle on engines and thrust so i'm going to focus mainly on its in water behavior. The biggest thing i need to overcome is swamping during a turn. If you make too tight of a turn, the boat will swamp. whether thats natural or not, i dont know. Most boats except hydroplanes do swamp but there are always exceptions ( like that new destroyer /cruiser that actually leans into a turn ). Its rolling about 15 degrees in tight turns, but constant rate turns are possible and reduce the amount of roll. Rolling now works through all speed ranges, reverse works, bow lift works without the pop up onto the step, but i'm still balancing yaw, skid, and turn rate to make turns more realistic in appearance and function.

[CrisGer]

Wow great work by all hands. OK i have the PT now, looks interesting and will do some sea trials and check it out.

yes the PT and the MTB did swamp on a turn if too tight, they had shallow draft and tended to "skid" and so had to be handled carefully the S Boots were a different story as they had very well designed hulls and were by far the best Small attack boat of the War by far. The Japanese were developing a good one but it never reached past prototype and the Italians has some good ones but they were essentially test boats with a wide variety of configurations.

So that is accurate but not desirable in the hands of a novice captain or virtual Airman who is trying out a stint on the bounding Main. :) it is very exciting to see this work underway and do keep it up,...i am eager to see it all at work.

There is a good powerboat with excellent wakes and handing for FS9 and FSX, you might get some good tips from studying her. I can send you the file if you cant find it but it should be around on the libraries. I forget the name sorry memory is not what it used to be...or maybe it never was. :)

I see there are even weapons effects for the PT! excellent, much progress underway..

and yes i have the Traffic ships for the Solomons as i am lending a small hand to Roger Wilco as i can for the beta for that magificent work.

The PT was for its purpose and the resources quite a remarkable success, it has its problems in handling but it fulfilled its mission well..and actually being made of wood was at times an advantage as shells tended to pass thru rather than explode...so it was tho an anachoronism, a successful one. At speed most of the Elco boats had a starboard helm bias, ie you had to steer against it, due to the torque of the engine but it was nothing a seasoned helmsman would not deal with and did.

thanks for the details and i will check things out as they come along. Good luck with the S boat, they were amazing craft...and luckily we have managed to save one which is being restored to full wartime condition. The one i was aboard in the 1970s was in sad shape but you could still see the beauty of her lines and the magnificent design.

Chuck, i am assuming your cfg retains the add ons from the PT including the use of the guagues and the weapons effects? thanks

[Essex]

Does anyone know of a waterway that undulates a bit, but not anywhere near as much as the Thames?
Or a way of flattening out the Thames etc? I've tried the free UK meshes and done the terrain.cfg fix.

[lazarus]

Hi Pam. OK, this is PT-117 with the Centerpoint moved per drawing, both external and internal model.
A note to every one else. Do not use this model set with any other config or FDE sets, it will mess up the works, as the static center is moved a long way up.
This is something Warchild is cooking up. Pam; let me know when you`ve got the modified file so I can delete it.
83453

[warchild]

Your awesome Lazarus.. Thank you.. Now i can do some serious stuff :) :) :)

[fxsttcb]

Meanwhile, while we wait, here are the Green and Grey panels and gauges I've done. Both 4:3 and 16:9 configs. The night coloring is pitiful at best.
The FDE that is included, is far, very far, from perfect, but, it will make the Tachometers functionally accurate.
I did my best to make it run like it's RW counterpart, but, I really struggled with getting anywhere near stable speeds. Reverse is one speed only, ~3knots. I got tired of trying. Two weeks of nothing but trying. :blind:
I also did a quicky "PT-103" Grey livery so you'd have something to use the grey panel with.

Sooner, or later, I'll learn enough to do all of this stuff properly.
Get the attachment soon. It won't be here long...Don