What makes the AI bombers return to base?

[vonOben]

Hi

What makes the AI bombers returning to base after they have dropped their bombs in campaign missions?

I have had quite some problem with the JU87's staying over the target forever in both the ETO campaigns "Attack in the west" and BoB as reported previously here:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?65480-How-to-achieve-successful-campaign-missions
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?74220-BoB-camp-for-ETO-by-mrjmaint-spawn-problems
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?74714-ETO-Campaign-problems-please-advise!

Daiwilletti noticed that in the BoB _mission.xml the Ju87's used payload=0 which is a clean payload.
<AirFormation ID="6001" Directive="strike" Country="Germany" Points="2" Skill="1" Payload="0" FormType="1">
<Unit ID="1000" Type="dr_ju87b_1stg3" Name="KG 12"/>

So I followed Daiwilletti's advice and added MissionType="Strike" to the xdp like this:
<Loadout Name="(4)250kg+(10)50kg Bombs" MissionType="Strike">

When I tested the edited xdp the Ju87's carried bombs and dropped them over the target, but stayed over the target forever... :blind:

Next try was to modify the loadout so the MissionType="Strike" only had one bomb like this:
<Loadout Name="(1)500kg Bomb" MissionType="Strike">

I tested the edited xdp with this result:
Ju 87 dropped its only bomb at 10.20.
Used cannons at 10.25.
Flew over the target to 11.00 (40 minutes over the target area!) when I gave up and started to warp. :blind:

In the next test I copied and renamed CFS3 default mosquito_mkiv.xdp to DR_ju87b_1STG3.xdp edited xdp: names, country, service date, category and url with this result:
10.16 dropped 2 bombs.
10.21 dropped remaining 2 bombs.
10.22 started to fly back to base as intended! :icon_lol:

So is there something in the xdp that influence how the bombers behave over the target or controls when they return to base?

I would be grateful for any ideas to help me solve this problem!

Cheers

[Led Zeppelin]

One thing that can change AI bahaviour over the target is the waypoint type: change from all weapons to bombs for exemple and see if it change something.

[vonOben]

One thing that can change AI bahaviour over the target is the waypoint type: change from all weapons to bombs for exemple and see if it change something.

How do you do that for a campaign mission? :isadizzy:
Doesn't the campaign engine handle that?

The <Waypoint Type="allweapons" is the same for the test missions where the never fly back as for the one that worked as anticipated:

From _mission.xml Ju 87 Test 3 (40 minutes over target area):
<AirFormation ID="6001" Directive="strike" Country="Germany" Points="2" Skill="1" Payload="1" FormType="1">
<Unit ID="1000" Type="dr_ju87b_1stg3" Name="KG 12"/>
<Unit ID="1001" Type="dr_ju87b_1stg3" Name="KG 12-1"/>
<Unit ID="1002" Type="dr_ju87b_1stg3" Name="KG 12-2"/>
<Unit ID="1003" Type="dr_ju87b_1stg3" Name="KG 12-3"/>
<Unit ID="1004" Type="dr_ju87b_1stg3" Name="KG 12-4"/>
<Unit ID="1005" Type="dr_ju87b_1stg3" Name="KG 12-5"/>
<Unit ID="1006" Type="dr_ju87b_1stg3" Name="KG 12-6"/>
<Route ID="5002">
<Waypoint Type="takeoff" Speed="0" IsWarpable="y" IsVisible="y" Lat="N48*34'58.5829&quot;" Lon="W2*3'3.0590&quot;" Alt="0.00"/>
<Waypoint Type="allweapons" Speed="99" IsWarpable="n" IsVisible="y" Lat="N50*38'50.4420&quot;" Lon="W1*15'56.8610&quot;" Alt="4570.00"/>
<Waypoint Type="landing" Speed="64" IsWarpable="y" IsVisible="y" Lat="N48*34'58.5829&quot;" Lon="W2*3'3.0590&quot;" Alt="4570.00"/>
</Route>

From _mission.xml Ju 87 Test 4 (mosquito_mkiv.xdp to DR_ju87b_1STG3.xdp):
<AirFormation ID="6001" Directive="strike" Country="Germany" Points="2" Skill="1" Payload="0" FormType="1">
<Unit ID="1000" Type="dr_ju87b_1stg3" Name="KG 12"/>
<Unit ID="1001" Type="dr_ju87b_1stg3" Name="KG 12-1"/>
<Unit ID="1002" Type="dr_ju87b_1stg3" Name="KG 12-2"/>
<Unit ID="1003" Type="dr_ju87b_1stg3" Name="KG 12-3"/>
<Unit ID="1004" Type="dr_ju87b_1stg3" Name="KG 12-4"/>
<Unit ID="1005" Type="dr_ju87b_1stg3" Name="KG 12-5"/>
<Unit ID="1006" Type="dr_ju87b_1stg3" Name="KG 12-6"/>
<Route ID="5002">
<Waypoint Type="takeoff" Speed="0" IsWarpable="y" IsVisible="y" Lat="N48*34'58.5829&quot;" Lon="W2*3'3.0590&quot;" Alt="0.00"/>
<Waypoint Type="allweapons" Speed="129" IsWarpable="n" IsVisible="y" Lat="N50*38'50.4420&quot;" Lon="W1*15'56.8610&quot;" Alt="4570.00"/>
<Waypoint Type="landing" Speed="81" IsWarpable="y" IsVisible="y" Lat="N48*34'58.5829&quot;" Lon="W2*3'3.0590&quot;" Alt="4570.00"/>
</Route>

[Led Zeppelin]

Doesn't the campaign engine handle that?

Unfortunately no, it is hardcoded and I've never been able to find a solution for this type of problem.

The only solutuon is to modify the mission file manually before clicking on the 'Fly' button, the mission file is generated when you arrive on the briefing section.

[vonOben]

Ok, so I should edit the _mission.xml when CFS3 is running?

Could there be something in the xdp that influence how the bombers behave over the target or controls when they return to base?

Since it worked with a default CFS3 mosquito_mkiv.xdp......

Is there a SDK that describes the content of aircraft xdp?

[Led Zeppelin]

Ok, so I should edit the _mission.xml when CFS3 is running?
yes and it works, I used to do this a long time when I was playing campaigns. But, I never changed this parameter.



Is there a SDK that describes the content of aircraft xdp?
Yes there is: SDK "Damage Profile System".

[Daiwilletti]

I wonder if a fighter_bomber would have the "allweapons" mission type. IIRC the 3.1a update also changed CFS3 to have level bombers as well as tactical_bomber. Its easily possible that prior to 3.1a CFS3 used "allweapons" for both bombers and fighters (given that the bombers were tactical_bomber) and it may not have been fixed when the new option of level_bomber was created??

Just a thought.

[vonOben]

One thing that can change AI bahaviour over the target is the waypoint type: change from all weapons to bombs for exemple and see if it change something.


In the _mission.xml I changed
<Waypoint Type="allweapons" to
<Waypoint Type="bombs"

but the I get this error when I click on the Fly button:

"Mission file failed to load"

Any ideas what might be wrong? :blind:

[Daiwilletti]

In the _mission.xml I changed
<Waypoint Type="allweapons" to
<Waypoint Type="bombs"

but the I get this error when I click on the Fly button:

"Mission file failed to load"

Any ideas what might be wrong? :blind:

First thing to check for is typos - happens so often - its the simple things that catch us :icon_lol:

[vonOben]

I checked the Mission Scripting SDK document and it says bomb not bombs, so I tried that instead:
<Waypoint Type="allweapons" changed to
<Waypoint Type="bomb"

but then I get this error when I click on the Fly button:

"Mission file failed to load"

I have tried several times typing bombs or bomb and I’ve been careful to check that the typing was correct.

Waypoint Type="bomb" is perhaps not possible in campaign missions? :blind:

The DR_ju87b_1STG3.xdp has Category="tactical_bomber".

Any other ideas please?

[Daiwilletti]

Looks like the SDK may have a typo, if "bomb" is not liked by cfs3.

I forgot to mention that I often wonder how to persuade my bombers to return to base. It is nail-biting to select say a b25 you are escorting, use target view, and watch it go low and slow through the flak to attack ground targets with bombs and MGs.....

As you say if they have several combinationis of bombs in their loadout, they often need to make multiple passes to use up their ordinance. And it takes the AI so long!

When I want to go home as an escort fighter I wait until the bombers have done some damage (pressing "M" and scrolling down to see if the waypoint goal has been achieved), then I warp homeward, this nearly always seems to bring the bombers along too. Not very realistic, but you could try hitting warp and almost immediately dropping out of warp to see if the bombers are forming up.

good luck with your research,
D

[mongoose]

As a matter of interest, how does the AI bombers staying over target or not seen to return to base effect campaign results? (I note on my test missions with 300+ bombers that all the AI's seem to disappear from my radar if I linger over target, but maybe campaigns are different)

[vonOben]

Looks like the SDK may have a typo, if "bomb" is not liked by cfs3.



Isn't the Mission Scripting document for single missions, and not for campaign missions?



When I want to go home as an escort fighter I wait until the bombers have done some damage (pressing "M" and scrolling down to see if the waypoint goal has been achieved), then I warp homeward, this nearly always seems to bring the bombers along too. Not very realistic, but you could try hitting warp and almost immediately dropping out of warp to see if the bombers are forming up.


Yes that's a possibility I've tried, but it doesn't work if there are enemy aircraft around!

Cheers

[vonOben]

As a matter of interest, how does the AI bombers staying over target or not seen to return to base effect campaign results? (I note on my test missions with 300+ bombers that all the AI's seem to disappear from my radar if I linger over target, but maybe campaigns are different)

If the bombers never leave the target area you get a failed campaign mission, you need to escort the bombers safely back to get a successfull mission.

[Daiwilletti]

Isn't the Mission Scripting document for single missions, and not for campaign missions?

Cheers

@ von Oben No, the mission scripting syntax would AFAIK be the same whether autogenerated for a campaign mission, or for a pre-scripted ad-hoc mission file. Hence the SDK is useful to avoid incorrect syntax like "fighter_bombers" when it should not be plural. (incidentally isn't it a pain when some of the aircraft generic types are singular and some are plural eg. "#fighters", "#bombers", or "#tactical_bomber").

@ Mongoose, for the campaign all you have to do is press "M" at any stage to get not only a map of your position but also an update on which mission goals have thus far been achieved. Presumably this works for pre-scripted missions too?

D

[vonOben]

Looks like the SDK may have a typo, if "bomb" is not liked by cfs3.



I checked one of the ETO single missions and it was indeed a typo in the sdk!

It should be:
<Waypoint Type="bombing"

And now the mission loaded, the bombers dropped their bombs and started to fly back about 14 minutes after their flight leader dropped the first bomb.

So editing the _mission.xml this way works!

Thanks for all your help guys! :salute:


Cheers

[vonOben]

yes and it works, I used to do this a long time when I was playing campaigns. But, I never changed this parameter.



It would be interesting to know which parameters you changed and the benefits.

Thanks! :salute:

Cheers

[Led Zeppelin]

I used to add spawns in the target area or facilities such as search lights for night missions.

[Daiwilletti]

I used to add spawns in the target area or facilities such as search lights for night missions.

Hi Led Zep,
another way of adding extra variation would be to have added the spawns to the target facility xmls, eg for a factory facility, add the spawns under "flags=" paramter.
Then you could also add the searchlights to major facilities too. Then if you for example selected campaign mission "strike_productioncentre" and flew to London or the Ruhr, you would see the searchlights appear on all the factory facilities that you modified.

Its one of those things that needs a bit of time, of course and I've never gone beyond tinkering at the fringes of adding spawn flags to facilities, etc.

O/T (sorry von O) I really like your facilities with guns embedded into the bunkers, or sandbag positions, and I think it greatly improves CFS3 to have things like that in some of the standard facilities. Would you mind if I took some personal facilities I've added your bunkers to, and offered them as an upload?

cheers,
D