Red Arrow Pilot Jon Egging Inquest Mystery

[IanHenry]

The inquest into the death of Red Arrows Pilot Jon Egging says “It is believed he suffered an “almost loss of consciousness” caused by a maneuver that involved a maximum 6.3 G-force when breaking formation to prepare to land.”<o:p></o:p>
I find this difficult to understand, given that Jon was an experienced RAFfighter, and display pilot, that he should black out whilst turning into land (I do know that the Red Arrows arrival at an airport is rather spectacular, having seen it many times).

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/red-arrows-pilot-blacked-out-seconds-before-fatal-crash-after-suffering-the-effects-of-gforce-8413284.html?origin=internalSearch

A very sad loss.

Regards,
Ian.

[kilo delta]

Do the Reds wear G suits now? IIRC they did not wear them due to the fact that the suit impeded the minute control movements needed in close formation.

[Wittpilot]

Ian,
I am not familiar with the Red Arrows routine, but it sounds like the same "break" performed by other jet teams... If so, I believe a few years ago down south, Florida perhaps, a Blue Angels pilot was believed to have blacked out performing the same maneuver as he was pulling G's to come around and set up for landing. I thought everyone seemed it was odd then that he could have blacked out considering the other G's pulled during the routine....

-witt

[SSI01]

. . . which may be pointing toward the suspicion of or detection of a previously-unknown or undetected physiological condition the pilot may have had that escaped the flight surgeons during flight physicals before the crash.

[Wittpilot]

Scratch that, I guess the incident I was thinking about was a maneuver where the pilot found himself a little behind and slightly out of place, and he pulled excessive G's to try and get back to the formation.... And I believe it happened in the Carolinas, not Florida like I thought... either way, I believe the report said the pilot blacked out...Also, The Blues do not wear G-suits....

[stiz]

i cant see it ... maybe they just couldn't find another reason?? unless there was an underlying health problem or summing. Theres no way he'd be allowed to even fly with the RAF if he passed out at 6.3g's. They then go through annaul checks and training. Also according the the official RAF website they wear G-suits.

[bearcat241]

If this was due to G-LOC, we should remember the human body under physical stress is not 100% predictable as one might imagine. A high G tolerance demonstrated routinely in a top pilot's brain and circulatory system over time is still not an ironclad guarantee for any future performances. You see the same thing in sports involving high physical contact or stressful running, jumping and maneuvering. A hit or jump or pivot performed many times by a young, well conditioned athlete can suddenly result in a concussion or a musculoskeletal injury without warning. This doesn't necessarily mean that the athlete was predisposed to a previously-unknown or undetected physiological condition, its just that on the particular occasion of an injury, the body says "ENOUGH !!!" - without explanations - to something that it frequently tolerates.

We all know from basic aerospace physiology that G tolerance is a matter of blood pressure and aggressively managing the muscles of the body to prevent blood from draining from the brain in high performance maneuvers, whether wearing a G-suit or not. But even in healthy types, blood pressure can and does fluctuate under stress and can give unpredictable readings depending on the task at hand. He could have just experienced a sudden, rare, low pressure moment (given his presumably perfect flight medicals), leading to a very brief blackout which can still be fatal at a very low altitude with no time for recovery. Like the article mentioned, add another 70 feet AGL to the scenario for G recovery and the story might have had a better ending.

[Motormouse]

Interesting thread on pprune on same subject.

Bearcat has it right, the effects of repetative g over a short period are cumulative, and aggravated by fatigue and
dehydration. The thread over there suggests the figure of @ 6.3 g during the final break manoeuvre, is not unusual for a Hawk.

A set of g pants is only part of the whole picture, I remember when I got a back seat ride many
moons ago (Buccaneer) the strain manoeuvre was as important as the g pants inflating.

Ttfn

Pete

[pfflyers]

I've never had the pleasure of a ride in a high perf jet, and I don't know if this would pertain here, but some accident reports I've read suggest that even experienced pilots can occasionally pull more g's than anticipated. If one were expecting to pull 5.5 g's and instead pulled 6.5 g's that could make a difference in how well one withstood the g load.