MB Question

[Talon]

If you ever watch the ai torpedo planes attack they usually attack from the bow of the ship.This is even true with ships as infrastuctures.

In these pics the Japanese ship is an infratucture but the planes attack from the broadside of the ship.Any one know how this was accomplished?It's a little trick that Pen32Win talked to me about and I told Rami and Jagd about so they are not allowed to answer.
Hint-It's really an easy solution if you give it some thought.


Talon

[The B24 Guy]

You made them light bombers?

Regards,
B24Guy

[Talon]

B24 Guy the planes are your improved Avenger and the ship is a regular Usio Kagero.


Talon

[bearcat241]

weapon splashes but no fish wakes indicate skip bombing...

[Talon]

It's not skip bombing and if you look at the second pic you will see a wake.Because of the ocean color it's faint and hard to see.


Talon

[Shadow Wolf 07]

"If you ever watch the ai torpedo planes attack they usually attack from the bow of the ship.This is even true with ships as infrastuctures."

Yes, but I often see the AI torpedo attacks coming from an angle fom astern as well...

[Desert Rat]

Is it to do with the dp category of the torp?

[Talon]

Is it to do with the dp category of the torp?

It's just the DBolt torpedo with no mods to it.No mods to ship or planes.


Talon

[watchdog22]

CRIKEY! :jawdrop:

[Dirtman]

It's just the DBolt torpedo with no mods to it.No mods to ship or planes. Talon

So the question now becomes: What is it that is unique about DB's pickle (torp) that makes it perform in this way?
.
.

[Talon]

It has nothing to do with about DBolts torpedo being unique or the anything special about the planes or ships.It can be done with any plane,ship or torpedo.In the PHP2 missions the ships are part of the GSL scenery so a method had to be found so they would be torpedoed from the side instead of from the stern or bow.I also had tofind away for the planes to bomb the GSL ships because the planes would usually pass over the ships or other GSL objects and bomb something else.It has to do with how the mission is formed and how to use infrastructure objects.

Hint is use of infrastructure objects.


Talon

[Blue Devil]

Probably has to do w/ the mission "attack" waypt.

Attack "w/ all weapons"? ...

Or an offset (non-targeted) waypt location? ...

[Talon]

Probably has to do w/ the mission "attack" waypt.

Attack "w/ all weapons"? ...

Or an offset (non-targeted) waypt location? ...

You're getting warmer.

The waypoints need to be set in away the planes don't crash into the land as you're in a harbor.

Attack wp is with torpedo.

only 3 wp's 1 is when torpedo plane spawns,2 attack wp and 3 is land.


Talon

[Dirtman]

Is it: "infrastructure" ship vs. moving ship object (placed statically) ??

[Talon]

Is it: "infrastructure" ship vs. moving ship object (placed statically) ??

You're very close Dirtman but didn't use a moving ship.I just used infrastructures but it can be done with a moving ship and infrastructure ship also.I've used both methods.

This post is just to get people to think about things that can be done.I know there are limitations with CFS2 and mission building but work arounds can be done if you look for them.One of the people I learned alot about mission building from was Pen32Win.Cody's tutorial got me started but Pen taught me a few things after that.


Talon

[The B24 Guy]

Humm...

Is something else the target?
Say a stack of crates or maybe something like AF high piroity target?

Regards,
B24Guy

[Talon]

Humm...

Is something else the target?
Say a stack of crates or maybe something like AF high piroity target?

Regards,
B24Guy

The B24 Guy wins a cigar.

There is another target behind the destroyer at about 90 degrees.The target is a Japanese barge as a infrastructure which you can't see from the views I showed you.The planes torpedo attack the barge but because the destroyer is in front it gets hit.The way I have it setup the barge gets sunk because the torpedoes will pass thru the destroyer but some hit the DD in front of the centerline of it.ships can only be hit in the bow section or stern section.Pen explained this a few weeks ago.One other hint the torpedo planes must start from behind the target ship.First wp is behind target second wp is attack with torpedo and third wp is to land.

You setup the target first and make sure the planes won't crash on land( remember it's a harbor ) by changing the heading of the target, than put in the other ship.This also works if the ships are GSL.

I f you want to hit a ship that's GSL with bombs you out a infrastructure on the ship as a target.As these ships won't fire guns I used a 50 cal.in places I wanted it to get hit.I also put a pt boat with the other other boats on the ship as a target,it blends right in and you don't even see it.

Here's a pic of the placement of ships for the destroyer attack.


Talon

[bearcat241]

....ships can only be hit in the bow section or stern section....

Hmmm....i don't mean to be difficult and i'm sure there's a golden nugget there based on careful study, but my experience with this has been markedly different. As player in my attacks, i've seen a number of fatal hits on midships with perfect timing and approaches - on both static and moving targets. Can't say the same definitively for AI since i haven't studied the AI torpedo attack subject in depth.

In using this method for attacking and hit a moving target midship, how do you keep two vessels placed perpendicular moving along the same path? Parallel placements i can see moving together at the same speed, but two vessels offset 90 degrees...i dunno???? You have to setup a stern shot on the barge, which is pointed away from the actual moving target, so you have to time your spawn to both drop and hit the moving target at exactly the moment that its midships passes the stern of the barge which must be static to make this work.

[Talon]

Bearcat

Both ships are infrastructures so they are not moving.The planes start from the stern of the barge but attack the bow.The attack planes are also all AI planes.The barge gets sunk because I think some torpedoes pass thru the DD at midship.

You can also use the barge as a ship with 2 wp's both wp's need to be set to 0 speed and do not evade.

I've been doing missions using this method since 2003 for my personal missions.

Talon

[Pen32Win]

Are you guys trying to make a Fruit Salad or Fruit Cake? :costumes:
Apples, Oranges, Bananas, Grapes, Raspberries.....

BC, Talon didn’t capitalize “AI” in the first sentence so you must have missed it. The whole threat is about AI behavior. I don’t think it would make much sense trying to trick the Player into a broadside attack with a secondary object. Would it? I'm going to have to mull that one over for a bit.:costumes:
You are right about player broadside torpedo attacks. There is about a 15* Window from the perpendicular where you can hit any of the DP boxes fore and aft. Any more than that and the old “Split The Ship Fore-Aft” Rule comes into play. If you attack from the front you’ve got to hit the DP Boxes Forward of the MDL’s Fore-Aft Center. Same for the Aft.

The AI’s in CFS2 use that same Fore-Aft Center Point to determine how they will go about their Assigned Torpedo Attack. This goes for both Player Formation AI’s and AI Only Formations. Draw a line through the Ship from Left to Right at it’s center and extend that line to the horizon. Now, if a player commands his AI wingmen to attack the ship with a torpedo how the AI(s) do it all depends on where they are in relation to that line. With AI Only Formations with an “Attack with Torpedoes” WP the angle of approach determines which end of the ship it will go after. If they are behind the line (in relation to the ships course) they will attempt to attack the bow of the ship. If they’re in front of it they attempt to attack the stern. This will ring true 100% of the time when the ship is either Static or Traveling in a Straight Line.

For ships that are evading two other factors come into play. How tight the AI can turn the Aircraft and how fast the ship is traveling, this effects how tight it can turn. This can throw it off from time to time and on a rare occasion the AI will get a broadside hit or attack the same end it was on when ordered to attack. With a big slow turning A/C and a fast turning ship at low speed the AI might start out on the Stern and Attack the Stern. But no matter what the result they ARE trying to get into the same position as if the ship were static or going straight.

Time for lunch...