Virtavia He111's got the jumps

[SSI01]

Just saw the Virtavia He111 for FS9 on sale, 50% off, picked it up. After installation, I start with the aircraft parked on the tarmac, engines off, mags off, fuel pumps off and master cocks closed - IOW, cold cockpit. After setting altimeter, plus compass deviation, then hitting battery and avionics, and starting the first engine (L), the aircraft stands on its main gear, then ever so slowly tips over on its nose. Throttles are set at about 5% for start, props 100% and mixture full rich. It seems like the flight model has this thing running at a very fast idle immediately after engine start no matter what you've got the throttle set at. How can you tame this tendency?:icon_eek:

[pfflyers]

There must be something going on with your throttle setting. I can start mine just fine with throttle closed or throttle cracked with no upset. In fact I had to run up to almost full power before I could get it to nose over. As far as I can remember mine is installed "straight out of the box".

[kikas]

... oh if somebody would do weary trophy He-111 without guns for cargo operations

[Willy]

How about a captured squadron hack?

[SSI01]

Will recalibrate the Thrustmaster and give it another try.

[Jagdflieger]

I've got a few issues with the Virtavia He 111 also. It'll fall onto it's nose at the least excuse when using the brakes. It also hovers around like a Cesna 150 when on final. It cruises and climbs just fine or at least like I think an He 111 should.

I've tried using the Ground Crew flight model in it, but without success. It's stablemate, the Virtavia Dornier 217 handles just fine, so I'm at a loss as to the issues with the plane. It's a very nice plane otherwise and there is a recent upload of a French Air Force skin for it over at Flightsim.com.

[Terry]

Why pay for problems when the freeware Groundcrew version works perfectly? :isadizzy:

[pfflyers]

If nobody bought payware addons how would the developers put shoes on their kids?

I don't know why my He111 behaves differently than some others. I just now loaded it up and taxied around a bit, no tipping. Then I lined up on the runway and firewalled the throttles, when the tailwheel lifted I shut the throttles and stomped the brakes and it stopped without tipping. Mine is an older AlphaSim download so I don't know if newer versions are updated in some way.

[Jagdflieger]

I'm pretty sure that as adults we can buy, use or discard whatever airplanes that we want.

Many of us enjoy one or more of the hundred or so payware planes that Alphasim/Virtavia or RAZBAM and others have released as freeware over the years. Those fine planes would never have been released for our enjoyment if no one had bought their products in the first place.

This thread was initiated as a search for help with a recalcitrant plane, much like many other threads here. Unthinking posts with a tongue in cheek criticism are not solicited nor needed.

PF,

Mine is the later Virtavia plane. I wonder if there was some modification to the flight model? Also, what OS are you using?

[SSI01]

I recalibrated the throttle slider on the joystick once the He was loaded, found that, with that bird at least, at rest my throttle was at the half-way point! Recalibrated and it's all the way down now when at rest. Tried a start as described before and now all we get is a slight tail wheel jump when the engines first catch, then it's back on the ground. Takeoff acceleration seems to be quite realistic (not spritely, about what I'd expect from an aircraft like this - slow but steady, as it wasn't overpowered), clears the ground fine, climb with proper power settings is quite good, and it cruises well). I haven't landed it yet (haven't had the time) but would bet with that broad, thick wing and no real excess of power it floats quite a bit landing.

I've found gentle brake applications go a long way toward stopping or steering this bird on the ground.

The visual quality of the aircraft is quite good, and the cockpit is more than satisfactory. It's an enjoyable flyer. I don't understand why there weren't more textures done for this bird.

I also have the Groundcrew He mentioned and it too is a thoroughly enjoyable flyer as well. It's hard to choose between them.

Jagdflieger - I also have all the RAZBAM A-1s and A-4s, and have noted an unusual tendency with these aircraft. May seem like an elementary question but I'll ask - with these RAZBAM birds, I need only the slightest touch of the joystick throttle for it to be FIREWALLED on the aircraft. Is a recalibration in order, once the aircraft is loaded? Also - in your opinion is this a logical first step whenever we seem to have a "runaway" (very goosey throttle) on our hands? Wonder why this happens with some aircraft and not with others?

[pfflyers]

I'm still using XP, a dinosaur I guess. I'd be happy to share my cfg with anyone interested in seeing if it works better for you.

These entries seem to be the most likely to affect the behavior we're looking at:


[Weight_And_Balance]
max_gross_weight = 31000.00
empty_weight = 16000.00
reference_datum_position = 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
empty_weight_CG_position = 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
CG_forward_limit= 0.10
CG_aft_limit= 0.30
empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 50000.00
empty_weight_roll_MOI = 35000.00
empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 85000.00
empty_weight_coupled_MOI = 0.00
max_number_of_stations = 10
station_load.0 = 170.00, 13.09, -1.30, 1.31, Pilot
station_load.1 = 151.00, 13.04, 1.50, 1.29, Bombardier
station_load.2 = 165.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, Ventral Gunner
station_load.3 = 151.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, Dorsal Gunner
station_load.4 = 160.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, Nose Gunner
//station_load.5 = 4200.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 4xSC500 Bombs
//station_load.7 = 3080.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 28x SC50 Bombs
//station_load.7 = 3580.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 2x F5B Torpedoes

[fuel]
//Longitudinal (feet), Lateral (feet), Vertical (feet), Usable(gallons), Unusable (gallons)
fuel_type = 1
number_of_tank_selectors = 2
electric_pump= 1
LeftMain = 0.00, -12.00, 0.00, 470.00, 0.00
RightMain = 0.00, 12.00, 0.00, 470.00, 0.00
LeftAux = 0.00, -20.00, 0.00, 280.00, 0.00
RightAux = 0.00, 20.00, 0.00, 280.00, 0.00

[contact_points]
max_number_of_points = 8

point.0 = 1, -36.60, 0.00, -0.80, 2600.00, 0, 0.90, 55.50, 0.10, 3.94, 0.50, 3.00, 3.00, 0, 135, 165 //Tail wheel
point.1 = 1, 0.93, -8.74, -8.29, 3600.00, 1, 1.92, 0.00, 0.25, 1.84, 0.66, 9.50, 7.00, 2, 135, 165 //Left MLG
point.2 = 1, 0.93, 8.74, -8.29, 3600.00, 2, 1.92, 0.00, 0.25, 1.84, 0.66, 8.00, 6.50, 3, 135, 165 //Right MLG
point.3 = 2, -5.20, -37.50, 4.00, 2600.00, 0, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 5, 0, 0 //Left wing tip scrape point
point.4 = 2, -5.20, 37.50, 4.00, 2600.00, 0, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 6, 0, 0 //Right wing tip scrape point
point.5 = 2, -42.50, 0.00, 3.20, 2600.00, 0, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 9, 0, 0 //Tail scrape point
point.6 = 2, 8.50, 0.50, -2.15, 2600.00, 0, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 4, 0, 0 //Nose scrape point
point.7 = 5, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 2000.00, 0, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.10, 0.10, 0, 0, 0 //Water Rudder

static_pitch = 11.40
static_cg_height = 8.00

gear_system_type= 1
tailwheel_lock = 1

[brakes]
parking_brake = 1
toe_brakes_scale = 0.65
differential_braking_scale = 0.20

[Jagdflieger]

PF,

Thanks for that. By the way, when I get around to building a flight sim only computer later this year, it's going to have XP as the OS. That's always been the best OS for me for flight simming. Might not be the best for FSX, but I generally fly FS 9 and CFS 2 which are about the same generation programming wise as XP.

SS,

I've never noticed a throttle problem with the RAZBAM planes, but my trim for them in FS 9 has always been a bit coarse. Bearcat made the following suggestions to cure the problem and it works very well.

From the aircraft.cfg file:

[flight_tuning] cruise_lift_scalar = 1.0
parasite_drag_scalar = .75
induced_drag_scalar = 1.0
elevator_effectiveness = 1.0
aileron_effectiveness = 1.5
rudder_effectiveness = 1.0
pitch_stability = 1.0
roll_stability = 1.0
yaw_stability = 1.0
elevator_trim_effectiveness = 0.5 //was 1.0
aileron_trim_effectiveness = 0.5 //was 1.0
rudder_trim_effectiveness = 0.5 //was 1.0

This thread sure brings up some unexplained peculiarities between computers and how they handle various flight dynamics of the same planes.