Why Not Multiplayer?

[falcon409]

In another active thread I made the observation that a separate thread probably needed to be started to address a personal favorite area of flight for me. . . .Multiplayer. I usually spend my time adding my worthless 2cents to other threads or piddling with VC textures, but LUCE1 (author of the active thread on MP in the FSX forum) got me thinking about MP again and why (the age old question here) do so few pilots utilize the Multiplayer Environment? I know this probably belongs on the Flight Server Forums page, but as with the Multiplayer Server itself, I don't think it would get much response since very few folks actually go there.

So voice your opinions, suggestions on what makes a "great" multiplayer experience for you, things you like about multiplayer, what you don't like, maybe why you personally don't find it exciting enough or even useful as an area to be utilized by other pilots. I've heard just about every reason in the book, so bring em' on!:salute:

[jetstreamsky]

I Duoplay once a week with a friend never knowing what we'll fly or where and we jump from one aircraft to another during the evening. That kind of freedom without worrying about procedures and structure makes it fun for us, I think the idea of all the potential rigid structure around multiplayer combined with fear that your flight skills might be less than perfect Leeds people to avoid multiplayer.

[falcon409]

I Duoplay once a week with a friend never knowing what we'll fly or where and we jump from one aircraft to another during the evening. That kind of freedom without worrying about procedures and structure makes it fun for us, I think the idea of all the potential rigid structure around multiplayer combined with fear that your flight skills might be less than perfect Leeds people to avoid multiplayer.
Yep, one of the many reasons I've heard over the years about Multiplayer the fear of not being as "accomplished" a pilot as the others on the server. If you fly on VATSIM, that may be the case. . .as a matter of fact that's exactly why I don't fly on VatSim. I don't have the radio skills for what they want and they have very little patience with folks like me. They would just as soon you park somewhere and be quite. Also, aside from "Virtual Clubs" like Commercial Airlines, Air Force, Navy/Marines and such, simple Multiplayer servers usually have very little structure other than to follow a few simple rules, otherwise you're pretty much on your own to either follow a flight plan of your own or fly a preset "Hoplist". The whole idea of Multiplayer though is to do it "with others" such as you're doing. . . .flying by yourself on an MP server defeats the whole purpose of it.

[Francois]

I used to do it a lot in the Emma Field days. The only reason I do not do multiplayer anymore, or much of ANY flying for that matter, is an enormous lack of time.

Maybe once I retire........

[falcon409]

I used to do it a lot in the Emma Field days. The only reason I do not do multiplayer anymore, or much of ANY flying for that matter, is an enormous lack of time.
Maybe once I retire........
Yep, miss the Emma Days for sure. You have good reason for not having much time though Francois. You're about as busy as anyone I know, lol.

[jetstreamsky]

I think it would be good if a 'home base' was established in the centre of various flight regions, somewhere to start from with enough variety of destination that various multiplayer sessions could egress from without necessarily having to go with the crowd. In this way a busy airfield would be created with many players starting or finishing their flights generating a realistic dynamic with little or no constraints involved, in fact it could lead to individual players making their flights without need to become part of the multiplayer scene, although caused by their familiarity with this scenario it could easily lead them to become more comfortable flying with other players over time.

[mal998]

A few years ago we had a little flying club comprised of several flyers from the US, the UK, and a couple of other countries. It was a pretty relaxed group and we spent as much time talking on Teamspeak as we did flying. We never had a "leader" because we were all pretty laid back. Sometimes it was really funny because nobody would make a decision on where to fly to. We had some laughs about that.

Some of my flying buddies included Frank S., Creepy, Mithrin, Expat, Guns, Storm, Scenium, Noddy and a bunch of other guys whose names some of you would recognize. We used to get together at a time good for both US and the Continent and would sign on to TeamSpeak. Then we would pick props or jets or helos and choose a location and fly for an hour or two. We spent a year or more running carrier operations and it was a fella in the UK by the name of Lynx who taught me how to fly helos.

For a while a few of us ran weekly VietNam ops. It was really a lot of fun and I made some really good friends because of it. The friendship factor was really the best part of the experience. Yeah, we talked a lot, sometimes about politics, and sometimes we disagreed but all in all it was a really positive experience. But as life would have it, people got busy with other things or got burnt out on the sim and drifted away. Some of those guys are still active in the community, and I talk with a few of them frequently. These days I spend most of my time developing flight dynamics and air files for payware products and don't do too much flying other than testing. But I do look back on those multi days with fondness.

If you can find the right group of guys who you develop friendships with, it makes all the difference.

[falcon409]

. . . . . . The friendship factor was really the best part of the experience. . . . . . .But I do look back on those multi days with fondness.
Yea I hear ya mal998. . . .during the time that Lago was so popular I set up a flying club with a group of other folks around the time they released their MB-339. We all had it and the idea was to form a group to practice formation flying and get as many people as we could to join and participate. We ended up with a group of probably 6 or seven (out of the 270+ so-called members who wanted to "participate") and we flew 3 times a week from around 9:00am CST until just after noon. We went everywhere and I usually made up the flight plans using FSNav. We had pilots from the UK, Israel, Germany, Canada and the US and we stayed with it for about 2 years until Lago began falling apart and nerves got a bit frayed, lol. Basically though it was a great experience even though we had a tough time for a while understanding some of the broken English, lol eventually we got past that and enjoyed the flights together.

By the way, the formation flight thing lasted about a week and then we decided to just enjoy flying, lol

[UKMIL]

I think it would be good if a 'home base' was established in the centre of various flight regions, somewhere to start from with enough variety of destination that various multiplayer sessions could egress from without necessarily having to go with the crowd. In this way a busy airfield would be created with many players starting or finishing their flights generating a realistic dynamic with little or no constraints involved, in fact it could lead to individual players making their flights without need to become part of the multiplayer scene, although caused by their familiarity with this scenario it could easily lead them to become more comfortable flying with other players over time.

that is exactly how we run our online server. We have our own FICTIONAL airfield, based in northumberland UK, and we have a VA type system, where most pilots fly from that base. We ecourage ALL flights to be done online, so even if you are not flying formation, or missions together, there is usually someone else landing, or taking off from that airfield. Our server is not strict, we allow you to just fly, no need for comms, but we have a TS3 server if needed.

[stiz]

why (the age old question here) do so few pilots utilize the Multiplayer Environment?

I just like being anti-connected and anti-social in a world that expects you to be connected to everything, 24/7, telling everyone else what your doing at that exact time!

[falcon409]

I just like being anti-connected and anti-social in a world that expects you to be connected to everything, 24/7, telling everyone else what your doing at that exact time!
. . .and that is certainly your right stiz. Thanks for your comment....:salute:

[LUCE1]

...
If you can find the right group of guys who you develop friendships with, it makes all the difference.
Imho that's one of the key points for "multiplayer why yes", but this thread speaks about "why no".

[GypsyBaron]

I pretty much fly MP exclusively these days, on the Digital Theme Park servers, with the
91st Bombardment Group (H).

About the only time I use free flight mode is when I am creating scenery/gauges
/modifications/etc or doing .

Just as TrackIR and A2A Accu-Sim changed forever the way I fly, so has MP
changed the environment in which I fly. Actually, I go back to about 1993 with
my multiplayer flying.

That was when I 'discovered' Air Warrior and the community there. Even at $6/hour
to fly on the old GEnie network it was an irresistible experience.

After Electronic Arts bought up Kesmai Studios and almost immediately KILLED
Air Warrior, I moved over to Aces High. Unfortunately that became less of an
air combat environment, such as AW was, to mostly a 'capture the flag' environment.
That's when I dropped out of AH except for the occasional scenario event.

The early Air Warrior community was so strong that it still exists to this day,
some 12 years after Electronic Arts killed it off! We have a nntp newsgroup that
runs on a server provided by one of the AW pilots from the early 'golden age'
of massively-multi-player flight sims!

'Community' is the essence of multiplayer, IMO. Without it, it is just another
ego-centric experience.

Paul

[Willy]

Some of the best online friendships I've had are with the guys that I fly multiplayer with. We've been flying together for several years now. Very laid back and informal, we kind of get a general idea of what we want to do and take it from there. The VA and ATC guys would probably have apolexy from the way we fly. But the main thing is we have fun which to us is what it's all about. If you're not flying multiplayer, you don't know what you're missing.

SOH has a multiplayer server that all are welcome on. The sad part is that it's not getting much use.

[rcbarend]

.....and why (the age old question here) do so few pilots utilize the Multiplayer Environment? ...
Hi Ed,

Simpel answer for me.
With all the developping I do for FS, I hardly have the time to fly SinglePlayer, let alone MP.

And a language thing (me being Dutch of course): does "age old question" mean the same as "old age question" ?? :icon_lol::icon_lol:


Best regards, and :icon29:


Rob B.

[falcon409]

. . . . . . .SOH has a multiplayer server that all are welcome on. The sad part is that it's not getting much use.
Yep, something I made mention of in my opening post. Part of the reason, I think, is that other than the "Round the World" event, there's nothing to draw pilots over there to participate. The Hoplists stay up for months on end, way beyond their normal shelf-life and a couple have been up for almost a year now. Sadly, I think the server suffers from the same malady that some of the other sub-forums suffer from. . . .no one uses them because there's never anyone there to read their posts. If no one posted in the main FS9/FSX Forums about the "Round the World Race" event, do you think anyone at all would participate? I doubt it, because you have only to look at the frequency and number of post on the Server Forums to see that other than your group, Willy, it's rare that anyone posts anything except when I find a glitch in a hoplist.

This whole thread, whether anyone realizes it or not is about the SOH Flight Server. I can guarantee that when it was first publicized that SOH was going to have it's own MP Server, the overall consensus was. . ."Hooray". . . ."It's about time". . . ."Can't wait til it's up and running". . . . ."Great to finally have our own Server", yada, yada, yada. . . .and then it died about a month after it started. That's how long it took for the "newness" to wear off and everyone went back to business as usual and what I refer to as the "Few and far between" (the scant few of us that actually use it) took over and settled in.

You're right Willy. . .it is sad, that with the huge overall numbers that is the SOH Community, it comes down to a handful that actually use the server.

[falcon409]

Imho that's one of the key points for "multiplayer why yes", but this thread speaks about "why no".
Actually LUCE1 this threads speaks about both. It's just that as you may see if you read every post there are just a whole lot of reasons why people don't use MultiPlayer. I invited responses for both the negatives and the positives. So far though the negatives seem to be what most are speaking to.

[PRB]

So what's the answer? I've always though that Bush Flying Unlimited had a cool thing going. The idea of a set of "missions" that anyone can "sign up" for and complete, seems like a lot of fun to me. Of course you don't have to fly online at BFU. Wouldn't it be fun to have something "inspired" by BFU, but more along the lines of our "roots" which is combat type planes, but that would have to be flown online? Of course one of the probllems with such an idea would be scheduling. To complete missions online, with other players, would require that all participants show up at an appointed time. I think this would put a damper on the whole thing. One of the nice things about BFU is that you can complete the flights on your own schedule. Just thinking out loud. What is it that draws people to those online shooter games? Ok, dumb question. We need ideas that will draw people to MP. Hop lists clearly isn't it.

[Francois]

I feel that it is probably also a 'time' thing. We had GREAT participation when we started Emma Field Flying Club, and BFU at Avsim was also a very active group. I have been member on and off of a few small groups over the years, some are still running. But for some reason these things seem to have run their time...... people move on, start doing other things, not only FS related too.
It has been attempted to re-kindle interest in Emma-like clubs and multi-player... so far it keeps fizzling. Even the major Aerosoft attempt with Andras Kozma's Andras Field has never drawn the attention and enthusiasm that we saw in these 'first generation' multiplayer 'communities'.

I don't have the answer, it just seems there is less interest overall in these sort of things. Maybe it requires to much imagination and especially, to much time ? Today's average attention span for anything seems to be measured in seconds rather than years....

[falcon409]

I feel that it is probably also a 'time' thing. We had GREAT participation when we started Emma Field Flying Club, and BFU at Avsim was also a very active group. I have been member on and off of a few small groups over the years, some are still running. But for some reason these things seem to have run their time...... people move on, start doing other things, not only FS related too.
It has been attempted to re-kindle interest in Emma-like clubs and multi-player... so far it keeps fizzling. Even the major Aerosoft attempt with Andras Kozma's Andras Field has never drawn the attention and enthusiasm that we saw in these 'first generation' multiplayer 'communities'.

I don't have the answer, it just seems there is less interest overall in these sort of things. Maybe it requires to much imagination and especially, to much time? Today's average attention span for anything seems to be measured in seconds rather than years....
Mainly what I've seen as well. . .for all the hype that goes with starting up a new Multiplayer Server/Platform, the excitement is very quick to dissipate and everyone just kinda goes back to what they were doing before they got all excited, lol. I guess in the end, there is no real single answer to why people rush to MP and then just as quickly disappear. I think it comes down to the psychology of people and why we do what we do. . . . .what motivates us and what makes us go in another direction. It sure won't be solved here and nothing I say about the merits and ease of use of MP will change the minds of those who see no merit in it and find it difficult to get set up and running. We are who we are.

[ZEUS67]

In my case, I believe that flying is a personal experience that cannot be shared. Very much like driving a car. Only one can drive, the rest are passengers. Even if you are using shared cockpit, there is only one pilot.
Most multiplayer sims are competitive. They are either combat sims or racing sims. One individual or group against another. So, flying around in multiplayer is not very different than flying around off-line and chatting with your friends via skype, facebook, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

[falcon409]

In my case, I believe that flying is a personal experience that cannot be shared. Very much like driving a car. Only one can drive, the rest are passengers. Even if you are using shared cockpit, there is only one pilot. Most multiplayer sims are competitive. They are either combat sims or racing sims. One individual or group against another. So, flying around in multiplayer is not very different than flying around off-line and chatting with your friends via skype, facebook, etc.

Just my 2 cents.
I spent some time looking over you comments and before this thread disappears to the back pages I wanted to just touch on a few things you mentioned. The first "Most Multiplayer Sims are Competitive". Over the years I've been in and out of probably a dozen or so MP Groups. None of them were competitive. The only one that even came close was a VAF from many years ago and it was more friendly competition. . .nothing stressful. The current SOH Multiplayer Server is far from competitive, so I don't really see that. On that same vein. . . . ."they are either Combat Sims or Racing Sims". Again, no not really and understand, the whole idea of this thread while not explicitly stated that way is looking at Multiplayer within the Flight-Sim Community. I assumed that would be understood based on the fact that we're in an FS9/FSX Forum. Outside of FSX and FS9, sure, there are a great many Multiplayer/gamer groups and I would lump the Combat Sims and Racing Sims in there as well and I would wager that almost every one of those is quite competitive.

What I think happens many times is that folks who are thinking about trying MP have perceptions of what this is all about based on hearsay and not personal experience. I happen to be someone who enjoys Multiplayer. Connecting to the FSHost server is painless, getting the Teamspeak setup going is also pretty painless. There are always folks here and on other server forums who are more than happy to walk you through any problems you might have. There are also servers I stay away from for various reasons, VatSim and Gamespy are two of them. . .but it didn't keep my from finding the one I was comfortable with and getting online.

The reality of all this chit chat though, is that you can't force anyone to do anything they don't want to do. You can't tell folks how easy it is and then expect them to suddenly flock to the MP Server or be surprised when no shows up. Every time I open one of these threads I hope that maybe with this one. . .I'll finally get through to the doubters and we'll have new blood finding out what MP can be. That never happens, and it won't happen this time either. Like Francois says. . . ."these things seem to have run their time. . . .people move on. . . .start doing other things. . . . .", ". . . .Today's average attention span for anything seems to be measured in seconds rather than years. . . ."

[Francois]

....... yes. but having said all that...... you really never know. At one point something may still pop up suddenly and attract people to build a new 'community' (because THAT is what usually keeps these things going..... NOT a product, server or technology) and fuel another bout of multi-playering !

One other thing that I think did not get mentioned yet as to what often also stops people from participating, is their fear of their English. As Falcon said somewhere, we had groups going with all sorts of accents and problems, but in the end people coped and got along.
That TOO happened because people felt like part of a community and could then step over their bashfulness.

FWIW, I know there are a few of us here who will not stop trying once every while to get something going again of what WE all know what great fun...... and I for one have many 'Internet friends' whom I still am in contact with, and whom I 'met' through the multi-player flying at one point.

[expat]

If you can find the right group of guys who you develop friendships with, it makes all the difference.

I look back fondly and miss my too few and rare appearences with you guys Mitch!! As well as the comradrie, those sessions and discussions over TS yielded a huge amount of advice and information. You see and hear little tips and things you had no idea about being possible in FS.

[cortomalteseit]

The only problem that often keep me unavailable to MP sessions is the lack of time.
The difference between single player and multiplayer it's like to go diving in a pool and in a caribbean sea...
:bump:

[jonraptor]

I myself fly almost exclusively online with a few select friends that I have. Like many of you have said we spend as much time talking and exchanging stories and advice as we do flying. The type of flying I like to do lends itself to flying with others, I enjoy flying formation and formation aerobatics. Unless im really bored and tooling around with fsrecorder you will usually find me flying with my friends. Its also amazing the amount of information and knowledge that you can pick up from simply talking to other people about flying. I love that aspect of it as well. The flying that we do is not regimented like it might be on VATSIM or BVA but I think the freedom to go where you want to and fly what you want, with your friends, is what makes the experience truly fun.

[LUCE1]

allright,
so far the pros seem to be more than cons, wanting to make a summary of the evidence it seems that with the simulated flight in multiplayer you get:
- Increased friendship
- Best contributions in terms of knowledge
- More fun
So why are so few?
Even if the reasons seem to be many, none has seemed clear and concrete.
BTW: I also personally do not like the networks of the type of VATSIM or IVAO, where the phraseology and form seems more important than substance, however if you find an ATC with open-mind and common sense you can learn a lot.
At VAAFSE we have created our own environment with all needed servers and simulating the NATO air operations in southern Europe of 70-80 years with great satisfaction, but returning to the key point: we need models specifically designed for MP, currently most of the "blazoned" models available are like bricks in MP.

[Bone]

but returning to the key point: we need models specifically designed for MP, currently most of the "blazoned" models available are like bricks in MP.

The best solution here is to somehow talk the MAIW crowd into converting all of their AI FS9 models into FSX native, and then use them as surrogates in the MP environement. They work good in FSX already, but would really be smoking hot if they got converted.

...and yes, there's an AI F-104 model.

[LUCE1]

The best solution here is to somehow talk the MAIW crowd into converting all of their AI FS9 models into FSX native, and then use them as surrogates in the MP environement. They work good in FSX already, but would really be smoking hot if they got converted.
...and yes, there's an AI F-104 model.
Unfortunately using MAIW you loose the possibility to see animations (unless FSX default) so you loose the "MP consistency".
It is possible design and develop good FSX models for MP without renouncing to graphic quality, just think that removing the bump and specular earns 50% of the frames and did not lose much in quality, the key point is the model, it must be designed and build having in mind the MP.
..and yes there's a FSX native F-104 model, high quality, that works in MP in crowded session with little or no frame drop and mantaining "MP consistency".
cheers
/Mario

[Bone]

Unfortunately using MAIW you loose the possibility to see animations (unless FSX default) so you loose the "MP consistency".


We can't have everything, unfortunately. As well, you'll never get everyone who is involved in FS (developers or users) to agree to the same standard.

[falcon409]

. . . . . . .So why are so few?
Even if the reasons seem to be many, none has seemed clear and concrete. . . . .
Exactly what I wanted you to understand LUCE1. The lack of participation (in any sufficient numbers. . . . .like more than one or two per session) is not based on any one "clear or concrete" reason. There may be a few reasons that everyone shares. . . .but if it were as easy as coming up with one predominant reason for why folks don't use the SOH Flight Server or any other Flight Server, we/I would have done whatever was necessary to correct it and get the MP server busy 24/7. It's not just models that don't perform well, it's not just a language barrier, it's not just the lack of time, it's not just that they become boring over time, it's not just that many find it cumbersome to just get connected. It's all of those things and a lot more I haven't figured out yet.

I apologize in advance if this comes across wrong, I know your primary objective is to get models that are designed in a way that renders the most realistic model possible in Multiplayer. Because of what you do I understand that, but rarely do I get that as a reason for why folks don't fly in multiplayer. I can't speak for everyone obviously, but I personally don't care about seeing every animation, every contrail, even the correct airplane. I would just like to see more groups enjoy being online, flying together and "chatting" on TS while they do their thing. You have an agenda that is singular in nature. . .fine. . . .but it's not all there is and for many like myself, not an overwhelming priority. IMHO.

[robert41]

I would have to say, it is a combination of things.
I tried MP way back in the FS9 days.
I read some posts about the flights they were having, looked like a lot of fun.
Great bunch of folks, helpful and friendly.
But I was working every weekend back then, and these guys usually were flying on Sat. mornings.
A couple of things that I remember, at first, it was hard to follow the chat box and fly the plane at the same time.
Also, most of the other aircraft would show up as the default Cessna.
Since then, I have not really had too much interest in MP.
Perhaps one of these days, I will check it out again.

[falcon409]

I would have to say, it is a combination of things.
I tried MP way back in the FS9 days.
I read some posts about the flights they were having, looked like a lot of fun.
Great bunch of folks, helpful and friendly.
But I was working every weekend back then, and these guys usually were flying on Sat. mornings.
Yep, some of the best thing about MP. . .you always end up making new friends and learning some things you didn't know before you logged in.


A couple of things that I remember, at first, it was hard to follow the chat box and fly the plane at the same time.
Also, most of the other aircraft would show up as the default Cessna.
Even now, when I'm flying MP, if I'm on the ground I'll chat if someone sends me a message, but once I'm in the air, especially on take-off, approach and landing. . .no chatting if they don't have Teamspeak. I'm too busy to be trying to text an answer. Another reason that a small investment in some sort of mic (desk-top style or headset) makes the MP experience so much nicer.
As for the default Cessna thing. . .yea, that's something that in FS9 is unavoidable unless you have the exact same aircraft that everyone else does. However in FSX, there's a nice little option added to the chatbox that lets you select another player who appears as a Cessna and change his/her airplane to any one you have in your hangar. Pretty nice, huh?

. . . . .Since then, I have not really had too much interest in MP.
Perhaps one of these days, I will check it out again.
I hope you will!!

[cortomalteseit]

A little OT:
Where can I find instructions about how to fly in MP using SOH servers?
Thanks

[falcon409]

A little OT:
Where can I find instructions about how to fly in MP using SOH servers?
Thanks
At the top of this page click on the "Flight Center" tab, then "Flight Center Forum" and finally "FSHost Sessions". There are stickies there that will explain a lot of what you need to know to connect to the server, connect to Team Speak and how to do any port forwarding if you use a router. Dangerous Dave is the admin over there, if you have any questions post a message for him. I'm sure he'll be glad to help out or try me and I'll try to either answer the question or get the answer for you.

[Francois]

Let me put a link on some of my websites, maybe that's attract one or two new flyers :-)

I used to run my own FSHost server, but due to a major lack of participants in the end it wasn't worth all the trouble trying to keep a Windows server rented and running for it, so I sadly had to abandon that last year :-(
Maybe the few people that were using it will come over to SOH :-)

[LUCE1]

As for the default Cessna thing. . .yea, that's something that in FS9 is unavoidable unless you have the exact same aircraft that everyone else does. However in FSX, there's a nice little option added to the chatbox that lets you select another player who appears as a Cessna and change his/her airplane to any one you have in your hangar. Pretty nice, huh?

Interesting, are you meaning in FSX multiplayer or some other MP (such as FSHost, FSInn, or whatever),
how you get it ?
We could not in FSX.
/Mario

[falcon409]

Interesting, are you meaning in FSX multiplayer or some other MP (such as FSHost, FSInn, or whatever),
how you get it ?
We could not in FSX.
/Mario
Only in FSHostClient!

[Dave Torkington]

I've been flying multiplayer since FS8 - grief is it that long! I wanted to say how very interesting this thread is - thanks for the kick off and input to Falcon and others.

I first got into online flying using FS2002 Pro. thanks to Vatsim, BAV [British Airways Virtual] and eventually the long defunct RAF Virtual. Where are the crew from RAF Virtual now I wonder... They were good times...

I agree that there's no one reason for the 'Multiplayer' groups, org's societies or whatever fading away but may I indulge? I would say that for most of us sim enthusiasts flying 'online' 'is just a hobby'... For that reason, the extra software needed, time required, preparation, joining the 'org'., learning, nerves, comm's [either via speech or text], making and keeping friends, real life responsibilities / changes and more that make joining a multiplayer session a little more demanding than flying offline solo.

However, there's clearly folks that would love to enjoy the extra challenge and rewards of multiplayer flying - the proof is that BAV are still going and I'm sure many other Virtual Airlines and Org's. have been around a while. Also, there's a core group that have the circumstances to create and maintain websites, servers etc. and hats off to them, but I'm willing to bet there's quite a turnover of members / visitors due to the above reasons...

I've been flying multiplayer with a small group of friends since 2005. We're currently using FSX, FSHost and Teamspeak and we think it's a pretty good setup. We get together on a regular basis - every evening except Tuesday and Saturday from 21:30 to 23:00hrs depending on our availability.

Perhaps our little group could visit the SOH server one evening and wreak some very leisurely havoc?

Regards, Dave :salute:

[Reddog]

I checked FSHostSpy earlier and there are a 165 FSHost servers showing.Most of them are open to the public(no password needed) Most had no players on them and the ones that did had only 1 to 3 at the most.
I run 2 servers, one public and one passworded and neither one ever has more than 3 or 4 at the most on them in a 24 hour period and lots of time there isn't anyone on. If I had to pay to have them I wouldn't even bother.

[Francois]

The main problem with FSHost is and always has been that it needs to run on a Windows server. I currently have some 30 Linux server accounts and each one of them could easily host a few FSHost sessions. The cost is neglect-able. But when I had to run a Windows Server I paid over 250 $ a year and that was cheap ! In addition the ruddy server software crapped out at least once a month, causing me to spend many evenings figuring out and restarting all FSHost sessions.

So from a hosting perspective, multiplayer is not interesting unless one has its own server and a lot of time.....

[Reddog]

Why would u have to pay for a server when u can run it/them off your computer? I have a refurbished IBM Pentium 3 or 4 I got from TigerDirect and I run both servers on it, cost was around 170 dollars and that was a few years ago and I don't count the cable access to the internet cause I would have that anyway. The only problem I've ever had was sometimes they wouldn't connect to the master server but all that meant was that they didn't show up on FSHostSpy, the servers still worked.

[falcon409]

Why would u have to pay for a server when u can run it/them off your computer? I have a refurbished IBM Pentium 3 or 4 I got from TigerDirect and I run both servers on it, cost was around 170 dollars and that was a few years ago and I don't count the cable access to the internet cause I would have that anyway. The only problem I've ever had was sometimes they wouldn't connect to the master server but all that meant was that they didn't show up on FSHostSpy, the servers still worked.
Yea, I'm with you Reddog. I ran one for Lago for several years and managed the server for Netwings without much trouble (FSHost and Teamspeak access) from my home computer which wasn't even half as good as the one I have now. I guess there are circumstances that require that you pay for server access, but for general MP play it's not necessary really, especially considering the general numbers of participants, you'd be very hard pressed to put much strain on a normal system. As for the Master Server, I didn't connect on purpose, it ensured (more or less) that the only pilots were those from Lago since no one else could see my server. I liked the ability to change the hoplists when I wanted (every month a different one) to keep things fresh, change the weather, etc. Lots of fun!

[Francois]

Sorry, I can't have computers in my house running day and night ;-) I work 16 hours a day, that's enough..... after that we both get some rest before we get on the next 16....... 7 days a week... :icon_lol:

[ST0RM]

Love MP. It's so much more entertaining than flying single offline. However, FSX isn't as user friendly as previous FS. You must have several ports opened up in order for the various server client software to work right.

But once you get everyone together, it's a blast. Just wish there where more groups off the VATSIM to fly with.

[LUCE1]

The main problem with FSHost, FSInn, DafSim and others we have tested is that they are not enough smooth to permit close or tactical formation in FSX.
I mean "close": below 0.3-0.2 NM players begin to jump around and is really difficult mantain a good position, close formation is almost impossible.
Most of the warfare operations are difficult to simulate (ie: dogfighting, air refuel, etc.) more over most animations different than default cannot be seen, and also weapons drop/launch cannot be simulated.
We use embedded FSX multiplayer that is very smooth and permits to see all animation and weapon launch, ground impact, etc.. mantaining a good consistency.
The drawback with FSX MP is that is an hybrid client-server architecture so no virtual server nor dedicated server unless very expensive one.
However we have managed to have an 1MB bandwidth in outgoing line that support our dedicated server.

[HeyChief]

I started flying with CFS2, then I think it was FS2002. When the zone closed i joined the WSPilots group. That lasted till FSX came along with its advanced requirements. Along about that time people were disgusted with all of the "problems" that came with the sim. Many flyers found other things to do. One of my flyer friends was given an ultimatim by his wife, another decided to spend more time with his grandkids.
A sucessful server wil also depend on the charissma of the "leaders" of the groups who fly together, If one of the "leaders"stops showing up for the regular flying sessions, the "followers" will disappear, too.
The old Netwings server was always pretty popular, and the people were friendly. Are people using the servers now as friendly as before?

[TeaSea]

I've been on the SOH server several times over the past month, and am always alone....{sniff}.....

Having trouble with the hoplist BTW, when I go to the start point I end up on the Helipad, regardless of how many times I tell it I want to be on the active runway. If I run to the active, will I be prompted by the hoplist?

[Tako_Kichi]

I've been on the SOH server several times over the past month, and am always alone....{sniff}.....
That's unfortunate TeaSea but we do have four servers so maybe someone was on one of the others. I have been on a few times in the past couple of weeks usually in the evenings EDST. You can check if anyone is on a server by looking at the server status pages:

Server #1 (on port # 23456): http://www.sim-outhouse.net:8181/
Server #2 (on port # 23457): http://www.sim-outhouse.net:8182/
Server #3 (on port # 23458): http://www.sim-outhouse.net:8183/
Server #4 (on port # 23459): http://www.sim-outhouse.net:8184/

Those pages will show if anyone is currently using the server and the map will show their position in real time.


Having trouble with the hoplist BTW, when I go to the start point I end up on the Helipad, regardless of how many times I tell it I want to be on the active runway. If I run to the active, will I be prompted by the hoplist?
The hop-list server doesn't care where you start from and the starting position is controlled by your sim settings so I am not sure what is happening on your end. You can start at a gate/parking area if you like and taxi to the active if you want and actually that is the preferred method so that you don't 'spawn' on top of or inside a player who is about to take-off on the active.

[TeaSea]

Ah!

Thanks for the list of ports.....

You are correct on the local SIM side...it's clearly on my client where the error regards the positioning is....you know, I haven't tried to purposely park the aircraft anywhere else, so I think I'll do that....