Specular Enable: @ Greycap

[Daiwilletti]

I see a couple of comments about the inability to render _s.dds textures in Windows 7. (@ Greycap et al:)

I wonder if Post #23 in the Knowledgebase sticky helps?

Greycap, have you tried the work-around in the knowledgebase thread?

hth,
David

[Human Drone]

Just curious, is this a workaround, or is this how you make it work?

[Daiwilletti]

Just curious, is this a workaround, or is this how you make it work?

My guess is that its a workaround

[Human Drone]

Thanks, I'll try them as soon as I can and see if it hits frame rates. Although I didn't read greycap's remarks very well. He says the _r.dds files handle shiny metal reflections, as per the P38 I tried. But again, it was sunny and I didn't see any glints of light. I think I'll make a more concerted effort first, fly ariund the plane in spot view or something, then make the changes & see.

Best,

Tom

[FireStorm II]

This works, but I think it either has to be fine tuned, or some add-on aircraft have to be adjusted to properly
show the specular shine. Some add-ons look sun-baked or have a washed-out paint job, with this feature turned on.

I had a hard time believing that an Operating System (Win7) would have an effect on a graphic problem. Daiwilletti
had posted something on the shaders.xml a while back, but I never had the time to find why it would 'bleach-out'
some of the finest add-ons. My old XP machine is still set up and this option is not used, but still has specular shine.
Both XP and Win7 machines have an nvidea gpu. Some win7 shots of stock and an add-on BF109 aircraft.

6286962870

[sdsbolt]

I tried this fix before but it made my vc textures that had a specular map way to shiny. could even see the paint over the glare.

[Human Drone]

Well, I'll be certain to back up my originals, then! :sheep:

Thanks for the screenies, Firestorm!

[greycap.raf]

I finally got around to trying the trick around and while I have to admit that it adds specular shine there's one catch - it adds universal specular shine, not one controlled by the _s.dds but a steady shine over the entire aircraft. Not only are all the fine details gained by good _s.dds files lost, the results are also very hit and miss as FireStorm demostrated. In a way it's an improvement over the flat appearence but in a way it's even worse as the shine on real combat aircraft isn't glossy by any means (excluding the German night fighters that were waxed for more performance) but a very subtle one.

It's really odd that the OS makes a difference but seeing is believing, it really does. For those with ATI cards it's a non-issue as the effect hasn't worked for them for at least six years but Nvidia users have to face the decision, Windows 7 or specular shine? I solved it by making a dual boot and am now posting this from Win7, soon back in XP after a reboot.

[Human Drone]

I was suspecting that from reading the tips - i.e. it ignores the individual _s.dds files as you say and insteas (apparently) compute a shine somehow. Does it seem to affect frame rates?

As well, I was thinking of trying the other two listed there for fsg and smoke. Should I be the guinea pig or have these effects already been dealt with in the indivdual effects files?

See ya later, supper time!

Tom

[Daiwilletti]

I finally got around to trying the trick around and while I have to admit that it adds specular shine there's one catch - it adds universal specular shine, not one controlled by the _s.dds but a steady shine over the entire aircraft.

Hmm, that makes sense. I wonder if there is a way to tone down the effect by modifying parameters in the file?

[Bravo/4]

That trick will always be a compromise, it will never look as good as a true s.dds texture!
Skinners can put as nearly as much work into a s texture as in the main skin, gives really nice results when you catch the model in the right light! Without it textures look crap!

Big W7 turn off for me, would help if there was an explanation, even if it couldn't be fixed anyhow!
It makes no sense to me how an old OS works better than a brand new one?? Yea I know it's an old sim, but come on, why ditch a very nice feature!:icon_lol:

[MajorMagee]

Hmm, that makes sense. I wonder if there is a way to tone down the effect by modifying parameters in the file?
It would be nice if there was some documentation of the parameters for us to be able to tune this effect down to a reasonable level. Unmodified it just looks fake.

[Human Drone]

It'd kinda be neat if someone could figure out what changed. Surely gaming rendering has only improved, how did the reading and rendering of the _s.dds files get shuffled out? Unfortunately, I have no resources to be able to answer this question...

[Eraser]

I dual boot and use cfs3 on XP (and most older games) and W7 for new games that take advantage of the memory and DX10+ It really isn't hard to do, and as I only buy nvidia cards, I still have my shine.

As for why, I think it stems from Direct X. It appears CFS3's shine uses shaders, code or something that's only in DX8, and windows 7 only goes backwards compatible to DX9, so everything else works, but the shine gets left out even with an Nvidia card. XP and DX9 do seem to still use all the older DX8 stuff if the game calls for it, so it works. I think it's a similar issue with ATI, where they cut out the older stuff to boost performance.

I do have a question about this though:
Does anyone else dual boot XP and W7 and have a newer generation DX11 Nvidia card? I'd like to upgrade mine to one of the newest for W7, but I've heard something about them having a backwards compatability issue like W7 when it comes to direct x.

Can someone with a new DX11 nvidia card and dual boot verify if CFS3's specular shine works or not?

[Human Drone]

Well, that makes sense, but blast it all! Dual boot to XP on my machine gets a little complicated because of all that I have installed on the SSD for Windows 7 - I don't know if I could do it or not. I guess if I subtracted the space taken by OFF and CFS3/ETO etc., as these would be under XP, then maybe... But that's a lot of work.

Well, it still looks really good on my machine, I guess I'll carry on for now...

Thanks for that, Eraser, it makes sense.

Tom

[greycap.raf]

Can someone with a new DX11 nvidia card and dual boot verify if CFS3's specular shine works or not?

Here here! :wavey:

Nvidia GTX470, Windows 7 Pro 64 / XP Home 32 dual boot and shining just as it should in XP.

[Cuttles]

Have copies of XP, XP64 & W7. Is XP64 no good/having same issues as W7??

So do you use standard XP (accepting only 4GB RAM) for optimum textures, viz: which one do I use, to build?

[Comments appreciated]

[hairyspin]

Have copies of XP, XP64 & W7. Is XP64 no good/having same issues as W7??

So do you use standard XP (accepting only 4GB RAM) for optimum textures, viz: which one do I use, to build?

[Comments appreciated]

Assuming CFS3 will run properly in XP Professional 64-bit, the specular effects should still show - they still do in Vista! I'd certainly like to hear if CFS3 will run happily in it, just for completeness. There's no compelling reason to run CFS3 in a 64-bit system, it's a 32-bit program and can only use 2GB of memory. Having more memory gives Windows the breathing room to run the OS and CFS3 side by side - no need for disk-based virtual memory - but ordinary XP can do that perfectly well. I run 64-bit Win7 because I have a few 64-bit apps that can use the extra memory, plus the other features of the OS.

If you're intending building for CFS3, I'd suggest retaining XP ordinaire for testing and using a dual-boot setup if you want to use Win7: that's what I do, build in Win7 and test in XP Pro 32-bit.

[Eraser]

Thanks greycap! Incidentally, you also answered another question I had, whether one could dual boot W7 64 bit with XP 32 bit, which I was thinking of doing, but had nothing to do with cfs3.

It's a shame CFS3 was left outdated and unfinished. And it looks like Strike Fighters 2 is on the decline with the developer looking to switch to tablet games instead of flight sims. And there don't seem to be any moddable survey sims on the horizon, whether WW1, 2 or modern.

Which gave me an idea: With robust group of modders CFS3 and strike fighters has, and some overlap between them, might it be worthwhile to pool our talent and create a truly modern survey sim that can meet the expectations of us simmers? Work with a terrain engine like Outerra (http://outerra.com/index.html) and get a whole 1:1 world to fly in at amazing detail for modern and next gen hardware, crowdsource it for financial means and developing it dispersed online like MAW, Rising sun, or SF2 mods like Desert Storm, Nato Fighters and a dozen others.

[NachtPiloten]

DCS is releasing a p51d and with it they have announced that their sim will be moddable by them and by provate foolks just as black sharks and lockon have been. This sim is outstanding in all respects. Graphics are well done, the engine is strong, the weapons and such are contemporary allowing all ww2 weaponsa and technology.

If all this happens will be seen but if so and it is accessible as I hope count me in. The maps are very limited but not all is perfect.

[greycap.raf]

Thanks greycap! Incidentally, you also answered another question I had, whether one could dual boot W7 64 bit with XP 32 bit, which I was thinking of doing, but had nothing to do with cfs3.

Be warned though, mine isn't a "normal" dual boot in which one OS is installed first and then another onto a different partition. This was made to have two completely independent Windows installs on two physically separate drives, XP was (and still is) installed on a 500GB drive which was plugged out while I installed W7 on a 320GB drive. Both installs "see" each other as drive H: as my partitioning system on the 500GB drive is C: for Windows, E: for programs, F: for multimedia and G: as a general warehouse. So the extra 320GB drive became H: but I also swapped the drive letters around in W7 so that the program partition of the 500GB drive is seen by it too as E: and so on - and the XP partition is H: - confusing? I can't blame you if it is! Selecting the OS to be booted is done in a BIOS menu, not in a "normal" dual boot menu.

The reason to do it this way was that if in a normal dual boot system the OS which created the boot menu decides to go belly up it also wrecks the menu and you're stuck with one OS that doesn't work and one that works but can't be booted. Or at least that's what I was told.

[Human Drone]

With that post, greycap, I am ready to subscribe to your newsletter. Brilliant solution! :salute:

Tom

/who has space for another drive in his box... :kilroy:
/printing message... gotta sort this out...

[hairyspin]

Be warned though, mine isn't a "normal" dual boot...

Interesting! I too have a pair of hard drives, one for 7 and the other for XP. XP was installed when I built the machine and its drive is C: Win7 was installed later (when it was released) on the other drive, but it also calls its drive C: Each OS sees the other's drive as D:! :isadizzy:

I have the dual-boot software installed on both drives, so if things get muddled - it's happened - I can still boot to the OS I want: I used Easy BCD.

[Eraser]

I'm halfway to that, I use the regular dual boot menu, but they're on seperate drives altogether.

[Cuttles]

Hairyspin thanks, Tom. Intend optimum build for CFS3.

Noted your XP Pro (only have XP home: is worth sourcing the XP Pro?), also small mem. requirements for CFS3.

Realise, the way to answer the XP/XP64 question, might be to dual boot each and see which is best.


(Complex drive set-ups above, some understanding)

[Cuttles]

Hairyspin, sorry just re-read your post under 'Computer Reuirements'; you've been told XP64 is not good for CFS3. (could try a run).

So it's XP32 or XP32 Pro (guess you've found Pro is best).

Thanks

[Cuttles]

Hairyspin. When you build in Win7, I guess you don't lose you specular efffects (viz: still there to be seen in XP?). So ordinary CFS3 play in XP only?

like your set up, Tom.

[NachtPiloten]

I have a dual OS computer with two separate HDs - XP Pro 32 and a Win 7 Pro 64 and a storage HD as well. Very simple to set up and works very well. Unless the house burns down or someother total diasater the data at home will be ok. Also, store a fair amount in cyberspace just as a precaution.

Since I fly mostly night stuff shine is not a prob for in in win7, the darker the better.

[hairyspin]

Hairyspin. When you build in Win7, I guess you don't lose your specular effects (viz: still there to be seen in XP?).

That's right, it doesn't matter which OS I develop in, the specular shine shows properly in XP, flat as ink in Win 7.

I just like Win 7 as a working environment, plus some software I use is 64-bit. I originally bought XP Pro 32-bit because the OS has some features I wanted which XP Home lacks. CFS3 runs (and looks) just fine in either, but I wouldn't go looking for Pro unless you have a particular reason.