Bill's Canberras

[burcham8]

Guys,

I think I remember a cure for Bill Holker's B-57's shaking above a certain speed, but I don't remember where I saw it. Is it on our site?

Marc

[Rich]

Was this with Force Feedback ???

[nazca_steve]

What kind of speed are you looking to get them past? I believe the max speed on the B-57 was something in the region of 582 mph. What are Bill's shaking at?

[Rich]

Steve, from experience most if not all shakes at certain speeds were down to the force feed back settings in the air file but only force feedback users suffered elevator, aileron and rudder flutter which could be felt in the joy stick, often quite strong.

I fixed a fair few via the air file, people without force feed back sticks would have no problems.

I used to set them at just over never exceed speeds.

[burcham8]

Starts around 400 knots. Disappears if you chop throttle and deploy speedbrakes or climb.

Marc

[nazca_steve]

Perhaps you could test it out with my B-57A FDE files and see if that sorts it. The A and B were extremely close in handling, in fact Roland Beamont reported the B felt no different from any other UK Canberra he'd flown, so I would give that a try. At the very least you could copy over the force feedback section from mine and see if that helps, as per Rich's suggestion:


[forcefeedback]
gear_bump_nose_magnitude = 1000
gear_bump_nose_direction = 18000
gear_bump_nose_duration = 250000
gear_bump_left_magnitude = 2000
gear_bump_left_direction = 35500
gear_bump_left_duration = 250000
gear_bump_right_magnitude = 2000
gear_bump_right_direction = 500
gear_bump_right_duration = 250000
ground_bumps_magnitude1 = 1250
ground_bumps_angle1 = 8900
ground_bumps_intercept1 = 5
ground_bumps_slope1 = 0.48
ground_bumps_magnitude2 = 450
ground_bumps_angle2 = 9100
ground_bumps_intercept2 = 0.075
ground_bumps_slope2 = 1
crash_magnitude1 = 2000
crash_direction1 = 1000
crash_magnitude2 = 2000
crash_direction2 = 9000
crash_period2 = 7500
crash_duration2 = 2500000
stick_shaker_magnitude = 2000
stick_shaker_direction = 0
stick_shaker_period = 111111

[Rich]

Trying again typed up a lengthy explanation clicked to send and got the dreaded SOH is down for maintenance, hopefully this will go this time.


Starts around 400 knots. Disappears if you chop throttle and deploy speedbrakes or climb.

Marc

Marc that would happen when speed is reduced below that magic 400 kts and is typical for a force feedback stick if the airfile section for force feedback is not right.

Are you using a force feedback stick ????

There are 2 ways of fixing it, one is to correct the force feedback section in the airfile or more drastically removing that section from the air file which removes force feedback altogether with no feel of dynamics and no stick centralizing.

Steve, the force feedback settings in the aircraft.cfg only covers bumps and ground feel not force feed back flight dynamics felt in the stick, you could remove that section and it would have no effect on flight feel and would give a very rough ride while taxiing as Fs 9 will use its default.

If you are not using a force feed back stick/yoke or whatever you will know nothing about any of this it is confined to force feed back

[nazca_steve]

I have been duly 'served'! While I do use Force Feedback joystick, I will admit I know little about modding the effects of this, beyond what I pasted in there...I will stay well away now and let you handle this, Rich.

[Rich]

Steve,
if you are using a force feedback stick and are not getting flutter or shake around or over 400 kts it is safe to assume your air file is ok, passing just your airfile to Marc should if he is using force feedback stick fix it for him but his current airfile should be backed up by renaming to

00 Whatever.air and ensure the new airfile is named exactly the same as the old. The old aircraft.cfg should be ok

Did I have anything to do with that air file ??

[burcham8]

Steve,

Your force feedback suggestion helps a little. I think I'm going to put the B-57A airfile in the B-57B folder and see what happens...

Marc

[burcham8]

Steve,

When I put the B-57A airfile and contact points in the B-57B folder, it starts shaking at 210 kts...:kilroy:

I think I might try the airfile from a B.(I)8 and see what happens.

Marc

[Rich]

burcham8,

did you not notice I said the force feedback settings in the aircraft.cfg has no effect on flight force feedback whatsoever it is a section in the airfile, you can mess with the aircraft.cfg force feedback untill you are blue in the face, it only affects the bumps etc on the ground while taxiing/moving on the ground nothing in flight except crashes maybe.

You still have'nt said whether you use a force feedback stick or not.

If you had a fix before it was probably one I did as I know of no one else doing it.

First one I did was for Dave Garwood's Hunter tested and confirmed by Cees Donker

You posted exactly the same thing a year ago seems you got no replies.

Done all I can so you are on your own now.

[burcham8]

Sorry, Rich,

Yes, I do use a force feedback stick...

Marc

[burcham8]

...and I may just have to keep the B-57B below 400 kts and learn to fly it better!! :kilroy:

Marc

[nazca_steve]

I would not give up with it yet. The Canberra on both sides of the Atlantic was designed exceed 400kts with no trouble, so there is definitely something amiss here. I struggle to get mine up over 500kts in level flight, but it is possible with a stripped down payload and fuel. This is not accurate admittedly, as it was capable of getting up there and beyond relatively quickly from I understand. In the end I had to settle for a compromise in my FDE to retain good handling at low to mid range altitudes rather than overload it with the thrust necessary to achieve these speeds and better high alt performance.

Rich, if Marc put in the Airfile from my B-57A and it was still shaking, then its a head-scratcher, as I use FF too and have never had any problems with shaking even over 500kts. And no, the airfile was worked out between me and some of the beta testers so don't worry that this is anything on you!

[Rich]

Steve, I do'nt have your B57's so can't say whether there is a problem with your models, can you email me the airfiles for both B57' so I can check your shake speed .

I suspect Marc does'nt have them either since he is asking for a fix on Bob Holkers B57 freeware models and is juggling the airfiles that came with it not yours.

If you are getting 500 kts with no shake he should too if he has your airfiles.

Shake has nothing to do with restricting max speed in level flight.

[Rich]

Downloaded the Holker B57s,

no Force feedback flutter on either though the recon version does show pitch damping needs looking at shake if you like starts about 560.


The Bomber had no problems with pitch stability and no shake it will only get up to 520 anyway in level flight.