Throwing in the towel

[bazzar]

Well, I never thought I'd see the day but I have had enough. At going on 62, I've got better things to do than spend my time defending our work and arguing the toss over issues where we have no right of reply.

We've been building these things for 11 years now and over that time, we have made practically all our stock available to SOH members for nothing, supported in other ways, built freeware aircraft and more.

It seems to me that nothing is good enough anymore for a lot of people around here. Your level of expectation will result in fewer choices and higher prices and eventually you will surely kill this hobby. We certainly don't seem able to take a trick.

I cannot stand to see the disappointment on our people's faces when a slashing attack is made on their work from out of nowhere, based on the observation of a few screenshots. NOBODY makes any money out of this business. There are no "big boys". The market is miniscule and is served mostly by passionate individuals who support their hobby by building for it. What they make out of it barely covers the IT bill.

When I see boys and girls working 18 hour days for months to get these things out and then have it all smashed by some unfeeling person who thinks they're the bee's knees in aviation, it makes my blood boil.

For God's sake most of these things cost less than a couple of coffees and a piece of cake. Do you make this kind of fuss every time you go to a cafe?

So I'm going back to my life, working to produce more add-ons and trying to make ends meet.

Thanks go to Ickie and all the guys here for an entertaining 10(?) years and many fonder memories. I will savour those at least.

In the last 18 months we have produced 20 releases for various people. You will see quite a few new additions this year. So slag away- the only difference is that I won't be around to reply.

Cheerio.:engel016:

[Roger]

Very sorry to see you go Baz, but I do understand.

[Gibbage]

I can truly understand your feelings on this. Every day I ask myself the same question of "is it really worth it?". I doubt I will ever find a definitive answer to that question. Simming is a hobby for me, and so is making aircraft. If I can make a little money doing my hobby, im happy. As it is though, I cant make enough money to live off my hobby with the current situation flight simming is in. Too few customers, and the few that are left are the really REALLY hard core users that are the most picky of the lot.

When it comes down to it, I just remember im making these aircraft for me, and im just happy that other people can enjoy them. Im also really happy if I can make a few $ on the side. Helps me pay for a $100 hamburger every now and then. :icon_lol:

I hope you dont leave flight simming though, as out community is getting smaller and smaller.

[crashaz]

Same here... sorry to see ya go buddy. I hear what you are saying though... a damn shame too since not a lot of people can do what you all can do.

Part of the issue I think is that not a lot of people know the difference (or relationship) between Aeroplane Heaven and Just Flight. Maybe people would not be so quick to judge if they knew a small group of enthusiasts is actually behind many of "Big" Just Flight's most successful releases.

Not a easy way to earn a buck payware.... maybe the FS stores will start hiring cheap Chinese workers working in sweat factories to give consumers cheap cutout imitations...... FS may be becoming part of Wally World... just head over to Wal-Mart.... be stuck with buying Abacus...... serves them right!!

EDIT: Yeah I echo Kevin's statement... please don't leave flight simming as a fan.... not too many of us left. Come back over to the enthusiasts side and enjoy flying and friends.... everyone else... well ya know. :^)

[Barnes]

[QUOTE=bazzar;684735]For God's sake most of these things cost less than a couple of coffees and a piece of cake. Do you make this kind of fuss every time you go to a cafe?

QUOTE]

Actually if the coffee is cold and the cake is not right then to be honest I would do!

That said I have many of your works of art in my hangar and apprechiate your hard work and dedication over the years. Thank you.

[OleBoy]

Baz, there's been plenty said here already. I agree with all those who replied.

I will say this though. What I saw posted in the other thread, was BS. I replied, although I felt like saying (many) a few choice words.

[gigabyte]

You know the really sad part is for every whiney bugger that gripes over trivial things there are 10 times as many who appreciate and truly enjoy these excellent models, it's a shame that the few that trash hard work such as bazzar puts out can drive a good developer away. If they had something worth complaining about it might be different but to trash a model because a line is too short or a font is too big is pointless. I would love to see some of these guys do half as good a job on a model, right they can't so they put down someone else to cover for their own lack of talent, makes me sick.

Bazzar, I am very sorry to see you leave and hope you reconsider at some point, I know many (me included) have not shown the support and appreciation we feel for your work, but believe me the folks that like and respect your contributions are in far greater number than the few that have to resort to nit-picking.

[Marvin Carter]

Baz, hate to see you go. You are one of the best, but I know how you feel. Later old friend!!!

[JAllen]

Amazing how easy it is to write things on a forum you wouldn't have the courage to say in person.

I am relatively new here and don't know who all the developers are but this is such a sad way to learn who is (or was) who. I have tons of airplanes and have always shyed away from the forums but at almost 65 ...

Thank you for all your hard work and best wishes. Jim

[Ian Warren]

It simply just a damn shame , time now just to sit back and play and enjoy what its all about .

[TeaSea]

Please reconsider.

I saw the comments and it has not changed my opinion on the product. If the individual involved really wanted to offer constructive criticism they would have sent you a PM or a note, not stated it publicly. No, the intent was to denigrate, which speaks more to that individual than the product they were commenting on.

However, its a fact that when you put up a public offering, people are going to comment. So please don't take it personal and reconsider your decision.

I was personally pleased with your efforts. Hey, we can't let the terrorists win can we?

[AussieMan]

Hi Baz .... sorry to see you go. I have ALL of your products and the ones you have produced for JF.

I know a couple of replies in the thread I started about the DC-6 were way off line. Some of the comments I saw there should have been dealt with via PM or they keep their fingers away from the keyboard.

Anyway keep your chin up mate and in true Aussie style ... kick arse. Any models you create from now on I am only too happy to see if I can break them for you.

[Tom@Cr1-Software]

Hey Bazz, I remember when you came into this, I had just started Simtech Flight Design and we were flying high on our cfs2 Dora release. You were here in this with me and then you started your own enterprise, and man you built some dang good stuff too. I have lost 3 great teams due to this very thing, now I'm solo cause I cant bare to bring in any one and see them get so disappointed with the way sales go, so how things are received from time to time. You really do have to have the back of a goose and just let the sheeeiit slide off you.
I know it is hard to walk away at this time, I took a 3 year break and now with Cr1 I just do it for fun only and money is so far back down the line I cant even see it.
It took me 15 years to get to this point and I will be here forever. I hope you will find solace in the fact that you guys build a lot of the best add ons around here and you contributed to a community that yes sometimes they forget how hard it is to build one of these virtual master pieces, but in the end I think most of them are beginning to understand the time it takes.

Good travels and drop in from time to time. You are welcome to drop into Cr1 any time and have a beer.

Tom Wood
Lead Designer.

[stovall]

Bazz, I completely understand where you are coming from. Anyone who produces something for the flight sim world today has to have thick skin. It shouldn't be that way but that is the way it is. Your products have always brightened my experience in flight simulation. Thanks for all you have done for us and I hope, just hope you reconsider at some time.

Thanks again good friend. You are much appreciated.:icon_lol:

[heywooood]

I have not been around MSFS or SOH as long as many of you guys, but I also really get discouraged whenever I see one of these kinds of threads...

always started by someone who has been around a long time, usually someone who has contributed greatly to the community in one manner or another,

and always as a result of some relative newcomer with no resume, nothing of value given - just aspersions and opinions of questionable validity.

(sometimes however - I think of a competitor creating a new, temporary identity solely for the purpose of upsetting the 'other team' - I'm a conspiracy theorist from waay back lol)

Baz - please just tilt your cap slightly forward on your bean and plow ahead regardless - your team does great work and we like having developers around...after all -its you guys who class the place up...:kilroy:

[1970LT1]

Baz,

Thanks for the CFS2, FS9 and FSX memories. You guys are the best.

LT1

[Gibbage]

Many years ago something similar happened. I posted a long post about the difference between "critique" and "criticism". Maybe that thread needs to be resurrected?

One thing I have learned over the years is to develop a thick skin, but never ignore either critique or criticism. We all (dev's and customers) to learn to get along togeather.

[strykerpsg]

Whoa! You're sort of a legend in this hobby and as others have said, it would be a shame if you truly leave without just taking some time off. As you clearly stated, it's clearly hard to continue working what amounts to a labor of love translated into someone's harsh critique. I'll be the first to admit, I haven't always been silent about my dismay with some tools, scenery or aircraft, but never with an intent to drive them out of the business.

Although some of your aircraft are not my cup of tea, DC-6 being one, but it still looks great. I am always eager to look at your works in progress on your website to see how much better FSX will become. You are correct in also stating that as more and more developers leave this hobby, our selections will become more and more scarce, prices will increase and FSX will cease to exist.

I hope you will re-consider, much as Diego did and realize there are many more supporters than nay sayers and if the nay sayers don't like it, don't buy it. Plain and simple.

Regardless of your destiny, thank you for what you did bring to one of my favorite hobbies that's legal and moral, not that I do anything immoral or illegal, unless speeding counts.

Matt

[bazzar]

I think I had better put the record straight here before people get entirely the wrong idea.

I am not "retiring" from the business, just from public forums. I am going to concentrate on the workload we have going on here and keeping our customers happy - that's all I really care about. I just can't stand all this squabbling anymore, it knocks the fun of these things right out of the park.

So, many, many thanks to those who have spoken words of encouragement and support, not just now but over the years too, I am deeply touched (but then you knew that:icon_lol:)

I can promise you that we are busy as at the moment and you will be hearing of many more new releases but it just won't be me giving you the news I'm afraid.

AH may even get round to making one or two things for our own shop one of these days....

[AussieMan]

I think what a lot of people are forgetting is that Bazz was a victim of the massive floods that hit Brisbane last year and like the mythical Phoenix has risen back to where he is now. My hat is off to him as I doubt I could have come back as he has.

Typical Aussie spirit. Keep up the great work mate ...... form one Aussie old fart to another Aussie slightly younger (by 3 years) old fart :).

[modelr]

Baz, hate to see this kind of thing happen. You have given so much to the hobby, and been around for so long, it's really a shame when this happens. I have all your great work up to now, and enjoy every one of them. The DC-6 is on my "must have" list, and these comments will in no way stop me from getting it, whether it was made for Just Flight alone or not. You and your team are among the best, and the naysayers who posted this are in it just for that reason. they are the unhappy ones, don't let it get to you. When I see those posts, I usually just pass by them, as I'm looking for the info that will help me, and you have always been very helpful. You have my continued eternal gratitude for that. Hope you hang around, the SOH is the only place I go, nowadays. At 63, I've learned, you never get away from them completely, but it aactually becomes easier to ignore them. But, being a team leader, I understand how you feel for your team, when they read those posts. Hope you continue to drop in, occassionally, just to say "howdy", and let us know everythings well on your end. Good luck to you and your team.

Don

[wombat666]

Mate, I agree that posting positive messages in forums is a waste of time and effort.
Don't let the bastards grind you down, or for the sensitive, "Illegitimum non carborundum".
We don't take that from anyone.
:angryfir:

[Willy]

Baz, from what I've seen (I don't have FSX), your work is still top notch just like it has been for years. Some AH aircraft are still on my regular fly list in FS9 (Spitfire XIX and F9F Panther).

No matter what else has been said, just remember that you do have friends here and we hope that you can still pop in occasionally and let us know how things are going.

Wishing the best!

[DennyA]

I wish you guys wouldn't let the entitled whiners ruin your day, when there are hundreds of us who love and appreciate your work.

Sim-Outhouse needs an "Ignore" function, so that these kinds of posters can be given as much time as they deserve.

But in the meantime, remember that for every one of these guys who somehow feels they're proving themselves by denigrating the hard work of others while contributing nothing but noise themselves, there are tons of others who are enjoying your work and hope you'll stick around.

The Internet brings out the worst in some people, unfortunately. John Gabriel's Greater Internet D***wad Theory (http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/dickwad-theory.jpg) presents itself in force on a daily basis in every Internet forum there is. But these people aren't worth your time or your anger.

[TARPSBird]

Baz, I also hope you will reconsider and stay with us here at SOH. It's a shame when a handful of nit-pickers and trolls succeed in demoralizing others. Please continue to post here, the vast majority of us appreciate your efforts and those of the AH crew to provide us with quality flight sim products.

[thunder100]

I think I had better put the record straight here before people get entirely the wrong idea.

I am not "retiring" from the business, just from public forums. I am going to concentrate on the workload we have going on here and keeping our customers happy - that's all I really care about. I just can't stand all this squabbling anymore, it knocks the fun of these things right out of the park.

So, many, many thanks to those who have spoken words of encouragement and support, not just now but over the years too, I am deeply touched (but then you knew that:icon_lol:)

I can promise you that we are busy as at the moment and you will be hearing of many more new releases but it just won't be me giving you the news I'm afraid.

AH may even get round to making one or two things for our own shop one of these days....

Dear Baz

Fully understandable

But still I would take a deep breath and consider again.Yes you get 90% of arguing by people which never came closer to the discussed plane then 5 miles and never to the left seat front of plane,and all is not good enough and too expensive.

But you also may lose the really valuable 10 %( could argue about the & age)

Like Jesse at the calclassic forum,which in my Connie FDE days wrote me-"hey boy(I think he is 92 I am 53) the thing dont behave like this upon final approach"(was about flap pitching).These for me always weighted out the ,sorry, idiots.
And there is sometimes constructive critisism(can be heated though like I has about L-049 window shape with the late John Howard)-->but still contributed to a better result

Anyway just my 2 cents

Very best regards

Roland

[michael davies]

I think I had better put the record straight here before people get entirely the wrong idea.

I am not "retiring" from the business, just from public forums. I am going to concentrate on the workload we have going on here and keeping our customers happy - that's all I really care about. I just can't stand all this squabbling anymore, it knocks the fun of these things right out of the park.

So, many, many thanks to those who have spoken words of encouragement and support, not just now but over the years too, I am deeply touched (but then you knew that:icon_lol:)

I can promise you that we are busy as at the moment and you will be hearing of many more new releases but it just won't be me giving you the news I'm afraid.

AH may even get round to making one or two things for our own shop one of these days....

Sad to see you go, but I'm with you on the forums, and sadly that has tainted my view of the whole environment, so after the F-15 debacle I quit, was all fired up to get back into things after a two year break but that one issue just showed that some things never change and I don't have the stomach for it, sick and tired of being told to grow a thick skin, tired of being told that if you offer something publicly you should expect criticism, well b*****ks to that, I'm not going to change any more, those ingrates will never change, why should I?, tired of bending in the wind to appease these cretins. So, cleaned up the HD, threw the towel in and walked away to old hobbies, truth be told, never felt better.

Glad to see your still staying in the model making side of things, your a better man than me!.

Will miss you.

Sincerely

Michael

[Gibbage]

I think I had better put the record straight here before people get entirely the wrong idea.

I am not "retiring" from the business, just from public forums.

Good idea. Sometimes you just need to push back a little. Glad your not stopping what you love doing!

[mal998]

So here's the thing, you've got a boat load of guys here, on your team, telling you to hang tough, while you got 2 guys telling you you're a loser.

Who you gonna hang with?

My bet is the the boat load of guys.

Why, because they're the ones who love and appreciate what you and every other developer does for the community.

Remember the "Blue Meanies" from Yellow Submarine?

Well, you just can't let the Blue Meanies win!

[Bjoern]

It seems to me that nothing is good enough anymore for a lot of people around here. Your The level of expectation will result in fewer choices and higher prices and eventually you it will surely kill this hobby.

Quoted for truth and fixed.

[Francois]

-- :kilroy:--

[Ickie]

Baz thank you for all the years, have fun.

[Stickshaker]

A sad but understandable decision, Baz. I hope you will reconsider in time. As you can see there are many around here with the positive attitude that should be the norm. I sometimes wonder why people who think they find something wrong with a product feel the urge to shout it from the roofs. Is this their way of coping with disappointments in their lives? Do they want to show what experts they are? Or do they mistake a post on a public forum for a private conversation? I wonder if it would be an idea to just ignore impertinent posts, instead of criticizing them. Critical reactions only seem to provoke more distress. Why not give it a try?

[Maarten -]

I am shocked and stunned by the upheavel my contribution in the thread "Just Flight DC-6B released" has caused.
It has never been my intention to offend anyone, nor has it ever been my intention to start "such a 'campaign'" against JF and AH or anything or anyone else.
If indeed my contribution is the only reason for Bazzar to throw in the towel, I sincerely apologize and want to emphasize that, of course, this has never been my intention. I hope that Bazzar will change his mind. I too appreciate the attributions of him and his team to the world of flight simulation. Please let there be no misunderstanding about this.

On the other hand I am genuinely shocked and stunned by the hostile way some people reacted. In my opinion qualifications like "terrorists", "mudslinging" and "bastards" (the last two words used by - of all people - two senior administrators) are completely out of proportion.

Maarten

[IanHenry]

I'm sorry to see you feel the need to do this Bazzer, you will be missed, but if that's what you've decided, then good luck for the future. But off course you can always come back!

Regards,
Ian.

[rdaniell]

...for everyone to remember the slogan here at the Outhouse: "Welcome to the SOH - Combat Flight Center. Let Being Helpful Be More Important Than Being Right!"

Peace+

Romeo-Delta

[dharris]

Well Baz, your work speaks for itself. I have enjoyed working with you on the Connie beta, not that I did much, but just as an old connie flyer you kept me on. The connie was great, is great and will remain great. I have as many connies as I can get my hands on and like them all. They have all added to my enjoyment of the sim. There is no "perfect" aircraft project, the basis of the software was not perfect. I started out with FS4 and a few combat sims. The realism that you have brought to our enjoyment is great. Every model that is produced is a trade off of various parts, to get the most, as the designer desires from his model. I have, er had, over 2100 hours in the r7v and wv-2 and I can tell you one thing , they all flew different, all felt different, but I loved them all, (well except for the one that lost two engines between Elmendorf and MIdway Island) that was exciting. So when folks can't understand why the model doesn't live up to their interpatation of how it should be, that is normal. The work that goes into making these software packages is quite amazing and I applaud you and your group for there work in the past and the future. Hope you at least lurk around here occasionally and maybe drop us a line. You are much appreciated, Baz so best of luck to you. Don

[Jagdflieger]

Baz,

You will be missed here in the fora. What's it been now, 10 or 11 years with us? You've added to the state of the art many times and have been most generous with your contributions to the Outhouse.

Please know that I'm still flying your CFS 2 creations in that sim as well as a number of your FS 9 aeroplanes.

I've come to call many of the obtuse, insensitive and sometimes just stupid posts as "drive by posts."

[warchild]

I cant tell you how really sad i find this. I dont own all of the AH planes, but the ones i have i love lots, and fly as much as possible. Usually, i'm working. Usually, i'm pushing the bar, but gods how i appreciate and love planes that are just good solid planes. Ok, so some of us push the bar up. So what?? thats what we do: Get our kicks by pushing our abilities beyond any kind of sanity at all. But not everyone does that, and it really isnt fair for anyone to expect them too. AH has done an incredible job over the years. I hope that despite this they will continue to bring us more of artistry and work.
I was personally always taught that if i wanted to criticize something i should first look in a mirror and start with the person looking back. I guess that doesnt happen any more, so, i guess it boils down too: if you can do a better job of it, the STFU and do it, otherwise say thank you and enjoy then fact that someone cared.
Pam

[wombat666]

On the other hand I am genuinely shocked and stunned by the hostile way some people reacted. In my opinion qualifications like "terrorists", "mudslinging" and "bastards" (the last two words used by - of all people - two senior administrators) are completely out of proportion.
Maarten

Perhaps I should have quoted the Latin: Illegitimum non carborundum.
:kilroy:

[Henry]

Very sorry to see you go Baz, but I do understand.now dontn get me started
A:kilroy:im having counciling on anger management:ernae:i get like the HULK:sleep:AND thatsjustpeeved me orfBIG TIME!there are justblind people around sadly its thesimple folks like me that suffe'rin the endYES BAZ you have always gone above and beyondi hope i speak forsome folks:medals:youre a real fine geezer:guinness:cheers H

[fliger747]

Cheers mate, think of you and your good works each time I travel to the land of OZ.

Tom

[Lionheart]

Be well Bazz.

Remember, negativity is everywhere. Just have to focus on the good, ignore the bad.

Keep up the great work. Love that tilt rotor you guys made.



Bill

[AussieMan]

Negativity? You fellas will never know what negativity is until you see some of the antics in the Australian Federal Parliament, better known as Play School :)