Tinkering with flying missions...but whence all this AA?

[Human Drone]

Hello, all!

Last night my brother-in-law and I were fiddling around in ETO. We got the idea to try a mission instead of the usual QC (see - sooner or later it has to happen!).

Ah! Spot the Bismark! In a Catalina! Now wait, what's this? No weapons? Aw c'mon... so I hang a couple of torpedoes off of her, and away we go. Slew to the action, and there is heavy cloud cover. I'm at about 8,000 ft, clouds are almost on the deck, and AA is coming heavy. TAC display (don't laugh) shows two enemy, so I'm sure that's the Bismark and her escort (where else would slew take me on such a mission?! ;) )

Now if it wasn't for the TAC "radar", I'd have never seen her. How did she detect me? Whence all the AA, it was coming heavy? I dropped down below the cover, and still, durn near in the water, flak is bursting all around me. But I managed to line up and drop a torpedo before eventually crashing because I'm more used to fighters than the more cumbersome PBY. (I missed - there is a reason for my screen name!)

Second observation is that I was able to take off without having my pontoons extended. The retracted pontoons even made splashes!

I'm not being critical, just asking about the AA and I know you guys want everything to be as accurate as possible, so I thought I'd note the pontoon issue as well, if anyone feels it's worth the effort to fix (if it even can be fixed...)

Thanks for ETO, it is a dream.

Best,

Tom

[HouseHobbit]

Much of this has to do with the way the game engine was built by microsoft..
CFS3 with the expansions like ETO, PTO, MAW, BOB, DPC Korea, Rising Sun have gone well past what Microsoft ever planned for the basic CFS3 when it was released many years ago

The wake for the PBY is from the way the aircraft has to be modeled, given the limits in Gmax..

As for the AA the rate and amount of fire can be adjusted but you have to adjust the individual gun and on the ships this takes lots of work and time..
And a detailed ability in using Gmax..
Right now there are a very limited amount of gentlemen (Masters) doing 99% of the work for all to enjoy..
And most are very busy working on projects, and have little time to re-do the Bismark, they do their best for all, and I am Grateful for their efforts..
I hope at some point some of this will be revised, but we have only a couple of ship builders and I know they are very tied up..
I usually just fly like Crazy, and use the PBY like a fighter in missions..:icon_lol:..
The old PBY is a great aircraft, but she is a Big Boat with wings..
As for finding the Bismark, without the radar, (tactical display) as in real life She, was a small target in a Big ocean..
And I think flying this mission on all the settings on Hard, and the radar off does give a good feel for what the Brits in their American built PBY had to face..
I hope that you continue to enjoy ETO and the other expansions as much as I do..
Yea I also have loaded the PBY with torpedoes in this mission and send a couple in to the Bismark..
Not what really happened but it is Fun..:applause:

[Talon]

The Bismarck could put up quite a barrage of AA.It was also radar controled/Bismarck was the first ship to use radar fire control during aerial attacks.This is one of the reasons not many swordfish were shot down,they were to slow.Bismarck was also the first ship to use radar fire control against ships at night.When the Destroyers attacked Bismarck the night before the British Fleet attacked the guns use radar fire control.It was pretty accurate too.

[Human Drone]

Thanks to both of you. Yes, I do understand that a few guys do all the heavy lifting on things like ETO, RS, MAW, etc, and that without pay! So again, don't take my post as ingracious; I was curious about them, merely, and if one of the fellows said, :"Aw, yeah, that's a two-line fix..." then fine, but otherwise, goodness, here I've downloaded two major packages (ETO & RS) for FREE, so like I said, don't take anything I said as ingratitude or griping.

That said, Talon, the fact that the Bismark had radar directed fire control explains why she saw me before I could see her. And it goes back to what you said, HH, without the TAC display and above a cloud deck, and all of a sudden AA is all around you... Well, at least you know you've found her! I wonder if, IRL, she'd have held her fire knowing that she wouldn't be detected?

So yes, the "masters" have done quite a job with a 10-yr old engine, and they will run into all sorts of limitations, from the code itself to the necessity of stepping away from the computer once in a while! Meanwhile, it's all I can do to keep from stalling and dropping into the drink!

Best,

Tom
(maybe next time I'll remember to extend my pontoons!)

[Daiwilletti]

Hi HumanDrone,
actually flak is quite easy to "fix".

but my question is "why"?

To me its very immersive to be faced by a barrage of AA - if you watch the old videos, warships can put up an incredible barrage of AA fire. The only question is - am I being shot down more than is realistic?
Because AI aircraft seem to fly slow and straight, I would expect them to get shot down a lot by realistic AA fire. Flak should bring you out in a sweat, IMHO.

In campaign play I fly a lot of anti-shipping missions (by choice - it is easy to change mission priorities in a campaign if you prefer to fly other missions) and by changing direction and altitude often, i have a reasonable chance of survival. I also make sure I make my attacking run simultaneously with my flight to present multiple targets, but sometimes from a different direction.

A single aircraft attacking the Bismark should be almost suicidal, I would have thought?

If you must reduce flak, you could edit the ship's xdp file. Its a matter of reducing the "rate limit" entry in the AA gunstations to a low number, like 10. This won't make much difference at longer range as rate limit affects the panning speed of the gun.

In addition I believe that in ETO, under the Guns folder, gun xdp files have had the "noise" parameter increased, to make the flak shells a bit less likely to hit you! But you could always increase the noise parameter. If its set at 1 for a gun, you could increase it to 2, 3 or even 4 and see if this makes you feel safer when attacking a large capital ship with a well drilled AA crew and radar-directed fire!

Ah, well, the beauty of CFS3 is its horses for courses:icon_lol:. The system is so beautifully accessible you can set up your own preferences. :salute:

David

[HouseHobbit]

Hi HumanDrone,
actually flak is quite easy to "fix".

but my question is "why"?

To me its very immersive to be faced by a barrage of AA - if you watch the old videos, warships can put up an incredible barrage of AA fire. The only question is - am I being shot down more than is realistic?
Because AI aircraft seem to fly slow and straight, I would expect them to get shot down a lot by realistic AA fire. Flak should bring you out in a sweat, IMHO.

In campaign play I fly a lot of anti-shipping missions (by choice - it is easy to change mission priorities in a campaign if you prefer to fly other missions) and by changing direction and altitude often, i have a reasonable chance of survival. I also make sure I make my attacking run simultaneously with my flight to present multiple targets, but sometimes from a different direction.

A single aircraft attacking the Bismark should be almost suicidal, I would have thought?

If you must reduce flak, you could edit the ship's xml file. Its a matter of reducing the "rate limit" entry in the AA gunstations to a low number, like 10. This won't make much difference at longer range as rate limit affects the panning speed of the gun.

In addition I believe that in ETO, under the Guns folder, gun xdp files have had the "noise" parameter increased, to make the flak shells a bit less likely to hit you! But you could always increase the noise parameter. If its set at 1 for a gun, you could increase it to 2, 3 or even 4 and see if this makes you feel safer when attacking a large capital ship with a well drilled AA crew and radar-directed fire!

Ah, well, the beauty of CFS3 is its horses for courses:icon_lol:. The system is so beautifully accessible you can set up your own preferences. :salute:

David

Thanks very much David,
I never knew you could do this to the guns in the ships XDP..
Bravo a true Master you are..
Many Thanks..
:salute: :salute: :salute:

[Human Drone]

Thank you, as well! Yeah, I'm a long way from poking under the hood that much. I'ver written plenty of code in my time, but I just have no time at present to get into it that far. And I agree, I want it to be real. It was a nutty attack to try to make, I just didn't know the Bismark had radar fire control. So yeah, she can pummel you, esp. a lumbering lone Catalina! But hey, I'm not really crashing into a dark, frigid north Atlantic miles from shore and help, so why not give it a shot! :jump:

Best to you both,

Tom

[Daiwilletti]

Thank you, as well! Yeah, I'm a long way from poking under the hood that much. I'ver written plenty of code in my time, but I just have no time at present to get into it that far. And I agree, I want it to be real. It was a nutty attack to try to make, I just didn't know the Bismark had radar fire control. So yeah, she can pummel you, esp. a lumbering lone Catalina! But hey, I'm not really crashing into a dark, frigid north Atlantic miles from shore and help, so why not give it a shot! :jump:

Best to you both,

Tom

Too true, we can only be impressed by the dedication of our predecessors who had to do it for real!! :salute:

@HH, yes the gunstations can be edited on the ships, just like on the planes. And all this tweaking gets me into trouble! At the moment I've got an M8 destroyer from Groundcrew without a skin, and an M253 which is engaging aircraft with its main guns - and I haven't tweaked the guns file on that one :running: