Contraversial Friedrich!

[Bravo/4]

Did it, or did it not?
This "Red Nose" debate has been going on for years, lots of comments, and theories, even different takes on the application of the red. Personally, I'm a non believer, second shot is very much more likely!
Does look nice in violet though! :mixedsmi:

Bf 109F-2 of Gruppenkdr Hptm Hans Hahn III/JG-2, 1941.

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7373/65245058.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/100/65245058.jpg/)

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/9676/76071721.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/76071721.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[ndicki]

I can't see any validity at all in the red nose theory. I don't even know where it sprang from! Red was never used as a recognition colour by the Luftwaffe - quite the contrary, as it was used on wingtips for example by the Sovs.

Nice piece of aeroplane! Looking forward to it.

Are there any plans to do a G-2 version, do you know? With the source files, it'd be a simple matter of adding the nose intakes and blanking off the lower quarter windows.

[HouseHobbit]

This looks cool, I like the red Nose even if it wasn't used..
Thanks very much..
Bravo..
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[ndicki]

Actually, I'd even go so far as to say that with a red cowl, the cock's comb would not be that visible - in real life or even less on a B&W photo!

[SixGhost]

With the source files, it'd be a simple matter of adding the nose intakes and blanking off the lower quarter windows.

Starting from the F-4 source you'd also need to enlarge the oil radiator and supercharger intakes, change the prop and the windshield/canopy quite extensivly, plus new squared wheel wells. Overall yes, it can be done quite easily cannibalizing the E wing. I laid out the mesh to be modular to an extent. Crazy thoughts of doing the whole serie, crazy, I tell you!:icon_lol:

I like what you did with the spinner John!:medals:

Edit: now that I think more about it, I think I have a G wing somewhere, just needs mapping, not really sure though.

Edit 2: yes I have it.

[gecko]

Well the red looks pretty cool, but I've got to agree, probably not correct. Weren't there different B&W film types that would show yellow very dark so that it could be confused for red? On the other hand, if the whole nose were yellow, why would there be enough of a color distinction between the underside of the nose and the rest of it enough for it to appear like two different colors?

Exciting possibility of getting a G-2 as well! Hoping...:jump:

Thanks for sharing such a great model guys!

Daniel

[ndicki]

Starting from the F-4 source you'd also need to enlarge the oil radiator and supercharger intakes, change the prop and the windshield/canopy quite extensivly, plus new squared wheel wells. Overall yes, it can be done quite easily cannibalizing the E wing. I laid out the mesh to be modular to an extent. Crazy thoughts of doing the whole serie, crazy, I tell you!:icon_lol:

I like what you did with the spinner John!:medals:

Edit: now that I think more about it, I think I have a G wing somewhere, just needs mapping, not really sure though.

Edit 2: yes I have it.

Slow moment there from me - you're right of course... But that's great news!

[hairyspin]

Edit: now that I think more about it, I think I have a G wing somewhere, just needs mapping, not really sure though.

Edit 2: yes I have it.

Hmmm! We could at last say goodbye to the stock Bf109G with its vertically challenged Unteroffizier Haus Hobbitmann... Do you need someone to do the mapping? ;) Though the Emil 'pit would really need updating for a Gustav.

[SixGhost]

I had a look and one could just transplant a few polys from the underside of the wing+the wheelwell into the F wing and it would be way faster. For a moment I thought I could start working on CFS3 again but as soon as I reinstalled Gmax I had the blues...:icon_lol:

I can send it your way Tom if you wish so! Gotta run!

[hairyspin]

You have PM! :jump:

[Bravo/4]

I've not gone into any great detail about the red cowl Nigel, like you, I don't think it holds any truth at all, but I've read it all originated from an old Black and white photo back in the 50's? It's surprising how it took off, even some of the top model kit producers are using the scheme!

Daniel, yes your right about the film type, I've not actually been able to find the photo in question, but I believe there was some demarcation between the top and bottom of the cowl, another reason for the theory!
An explanation for this was bad paint, or heat damage, I'm not so sure about that though!

Luca, Tom, you beat me to it, I mentioned the possibility of doing a G-2 last night to Rob, but this is even better than I expected!:applause:

Thanks for the comment on the spinner Luca, looks much better in game btw! Taken a long time, but I couldn't let this model slip away, we'll be releasing the non trop F-2, and 4 very soon!

So, we nearly got you back did we?:icon_lol:

[Capt. Winters]

Hi Guys,

great news on the possibilty of the G model.

with regards to the paint on the nose of the 109. Yellows are a very hard colour to cover over others colours with.
It can take many coats of paint to fully get the true yellow colour to display. so on the 109 I can understand why there seems to be some demarcation between the top of the cowl and the underside of the nose. on the top the yellow paint is having to cover dark colours (greys, greens etc) whereas on the underside of the nose its covering light colours (blues, light greys etc). this means on the top the yellow would be shading darker than the yellow on the underside, so even though its the one colour used to paint the entire nose you end up with two differant colours. in some cases I've seen yellow look almost dark orange after being applied thinly of greys/reds etc. it all comes back to transperancy factors and the resultant shades..

With regards to the red paint versus yellow, I agree that yellow is the more probable, but I have read a comment on a modeling forum where the guy who built the model was stationed in Germany in the 60's and claims to have made contact with original ground crew members of the squadron and they verified that Han's plane had the orange/red nose???

being mid war and the use of full yellow cowls being moved away from in an attempt to have camoflage do its job properly, is it possible that Hans has taken it upon himself to paint the cowl in a slightly darker colour range (reds/oranges) instead of the yellow?? which would partly comply with the notion of reducing how much his plane stood out against a ground backdrop but left him with some form of identifiable notoriety?

anyway its all supposition, the main facts would suggest yellow, but there may well have been a brief period in time were it was red/orange until ordered to go back to specified colours.

Plus I like the look of it LOL.

regards Rob.

[ndicki]

Interesting ideas there, Rob! That would explain a lot...

Many 109s were delivered with the oil cooler painted yellow anyway, so it would be pure and bright rather than applied over RLM 76 and darker and discoloured. That alone would explain the difference, because as you say, yellow (or red) has very little covering power.

Meanwhile, all it takes is one profile that's off-target, especially if it was an early one, and it throws the lot into confusion. For example, there has been a great deal of not-very-interesting controversy about I can't remember offhand whose aircraft's colour scheme, and in fact it has all been traced back to a completely erroneous profile done in the 1970s - same thing again. Oh yes - got it! The famous Bf109G-10s and G-14s of JG 7 in 1945, with the red and blue Reich defence band. Didn't exist. One profile in particular keeps popping up, of G-14 Yellow 20 (see page 67 of that totally inaccurate French book "Planes and Pilots Me109 Volume II") which is shown with the red and blue band and all the trimmings. I have a photo of the real aircraft somewhere, and in fact, it's an area of the two rear fuselage segments which have been painted over again - no clue why - and are therefore slightly darker. The G-10 is another problem, and generally ascribed to a misinterpretation of a photo of an aircraft from JG 301 - yellow and red. Depending on the film type, yellow can appear as extremely dark... The truth, in any case, is that JG 7 did not use Bf109s operationally.

There's a more learned article here: http://www.ghostbombers.com/various/bf109_jg7.html which states much the same in more detail. It was nice to find someone else had had the same doubts...