Just Flight's Wildcat

[RobH]

I think it looks much better without so much shine on it. I have been messing around with Martin Wrights MDL Material Editor for FSX. Still trying to get more realistic.

Here is what it looks like "as is"

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83/RobH1108/FSX%20F4F%20Wildcat/mccuskey1.jpg


And here it is after my tinkering.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83/RobH1108/FSX%20F4F%20Wildcat/F2_1.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83/RobH1108/FSX%20F4F%20Wildcat/F2_2.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83/RobH1108/FSX%20F4F%20Wildcat/F2_4.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83/RobH1108/FSX%20F4F%20Wildcat/F2_5.jpg

[Roger]

Like it. Just bought it yesterday in the sale.

[RobH]

Thanks Roger. Good call buying it on sale.

Here is the look I am trying to achieve, I think I need to add just a little more shine back to it.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83/RobH1108/FSX%20F4F%20Wildcat/wildcatshine.jpg

[Roger]

Yes, probably a little more. How are you using model mat X? I've only ever used the previous version on Fs9 aircraft?

[RobH]

Well, LOL, I am not really sure, since this is my first time using it ever. But, I will try to make sense, lol.

Of course, be sure to make a backup of your model file. Open the model file in MDL X. Scroll down through the top left window, and look for the main texture files, for instance, AH_Wildcatfuse_t.dds. On the right side, in the colour selector, change the R,G,B values, leaving the Alpha one alone. At this point I changed it to 40,40,40,0. As you know, the closer to pure black you get, the less shine there will be. To the left of the colour selector, there are two color chips with arrow buttons beside them. You want to click on the bottom arrow button of the specular chip. Then click on "send modified material back" button. It will then add your color you created in the colour selector. Do this for all the fuselage and wing textures. Then click on "save updated mdl" when you are done. Not sure if this is the correct way to use this program, but I am happy with the results so far. Hope I made some sense, lol.

[RobH]

Ok, here is setting it to 60,60,60,0

I like it:salute:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83/RobH1108/FSX%20F4F%20Wildcat/f4fnewshine1.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83/RobH1108/FSX%20F4F%20Wildcat/f4fnewshine2.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83/RobH1108/FSX%20F4F%20Wildcat/f4fnewshine3.jpg

[Phantom88]

Looks Fantastic!!

[gradyhappyg]

Thats why I like SOH if you are not careful you mite learn something. Thanks Rob!
Now I have had this program on my PC for a couple of years but never could figure it out.
I figure if it will work for planes it might dull down the deck on M Davies terrific CV32 because when I did those textures
for the deck I never could get the shine out of it.
55562

[RobH]

Thanks guys. Gradyhappyg, your welcome, glad I could be of help for once, LOL!! Your deck looks good.:salute:

[Pips]

Really good job Rob, nicely done.

[skyhawka4m]

wow....now I may even go for the wildcat......where is this program? I used to use the one for FS9 but that one delat with the model and not the textures.

[thunder100]

Dear Rob

You hust sold me on this-overlooked the sale at JF

Now I can decomission my Donationware in FSX

Only missing point is such a repaint



Roland

[jeansy]

very nice

[jankees]

yes, very nice indeed

[expat]

OK, I may also have to succomb to the sale - this may well complete my collection of (well known) Grumman fighters. Like the de-shined work - these subtle changes have made a big difference.

Question: did most buy the combined package? The description of variation between the various packs was not clear whether all the same models are in all the packs, i.e. if they are, you may not need the combined pack if there are sufficient repaints around.

Re repaints: I could not find RobH's paints he appeared to post last year here in the SOH Warbirds Archive under "RobH" but maybe they are back a few pages in (would have thought they would more recent and somewhere in pages 1-2).

[mal998]

The matt version is looking good. These aircraft were painted with a matt finish, meaning little or no shine whatsoever. In 1942 the paint scheme was non-specular Blue Gray over non-specular light Gray. Also, the paint on these aircraft quickly became dull due to the harsh sea environment. Just imagine running your hand over one of these Wildcats and feeling the chalkyness of the paint as it oxidized out in the sun and sea spray.

I'm looking forward to your finished paint as this is a nice model and your paint will make it even nicer.

Although not in color, these Grumman photos will give you a good idea of the low level of reflectivity these paint jobs had back in the day...



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[RobH]

Thanks everyone! :ernae:

The program you need is here: http://www.mnwright.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm It wont let me direct link to it. On the left side of the page, click on Programs List. Scroll down the page until you see MDLMat, click on that. Then scroll down until you see MDLMatXX, click on the yellow dot to download. You will have to have his latest set of DLL files installed for it to work. The link for those are on the page of Program files, at the very bottom.

Expat, the repaints are there, but with this system, I don't know how to get you a link to them. They are also on Flightsim.com as well.

[RobH]

The matt version is looking good. These aircraft were painted with a matt finish, meaning little or no shine whatsoever. In 1942 the paint scheme was non-specular Blue Gray over non-specular light Gray. Also, the paint on these aircraft quickly became dull due to the harsh sea environment. Just imagine running your hand over one of these Wildcats and feeling the chalkyness of the paint as it oxidized out in the sun and sea spray.

I'm looking forward to your finished paint as this is a nice model and your paint will make it even nicer.

Although not in color, these Grumman photos will give you a good idea of the low level of reflectivity these paint jobs had back in the day...


Thanks Mal, the hardest part is trying to find that "happy medium". As these pics show, they had a little shine in the beginning, might also be the lighting too. And as some photos show, yours included, they almost had no shine at all, probably later in the war, and with a lot more wear and tear.

The repaints have already been uploaded, they were uploaded several months ago. All I have done now, is dull the model down. The nice thing about this program for those that want to dull their model too, they can set how much shine they actually want on their Wildcat.

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[Ian Warren]

One of the many adding to the most classic Wildcat WWII photos would be on the USS Ranger during Operation Torch

[Dain Arns]

OK, I may also have to succomb to the sale - this may well complete my collection of (well known) Grumman fighters. Like the de-shined work - these subtle changes have made a big difference.

Question: did most buy the combined package? The description of variation between the various packs was not clear whether all the same models are in all the packs, i.e. if they are, you may not need the combined pack if there are sufficient repaints around.

Re repaints: I could not find RobH's paints he appeared to post last year here in the SOH Warbirds Archive under "RobH" but maybe they are back a few pages in (would have thought they would more recent and somewhere in pages 1-2).

:bump::bump::bump:

I'm bumping this as I have the same thoughts.
I have enough spare change for one package, but which one?
Is the combined one all the aircraft from the other 3, minus some paints?:confused:

[RobH]

Dain, I never could fully understand what the differences between the packages is. My guess would be paints. They all come with the -3,-4 and both Martlet versions. I have the complete package, which comes with 2 different models of each type. One with tanks, one without. Not sure if that is part of the difference or not. Hopefully someone that bought one of the smaller packages can say if theirs came with both model options.

[gradyhappyg]

55601 55602
Working on toning down the shine on the VS Gobbler next.
Funny but it's to the point where I spend more time fiddling than flying.

[imn2sims]

Is this sale still going on, and if so where? I hope I didn't miss it.

Steve

EDIT: Never mind, found it at JustFlight site....DUH.

[expat]

Is this sale still going on, and if so where? I hope I didn't miss it.

Just checked and it also looks like the sale ends tomorrow. Doesn't specify but I expect that is up until midnight Wed 4th Jan 2012.

[expat]

Got this one - before the sale ended - the full package. And glad I did. It is real sweet. Flies/lands nicely. Very good textures for USN/RAF it ships with. No carrier ops yet but that should be fun. Now to polish up my model de-shining skills, if that makes any sense . .

[jankees]

Funny but it's to the point where I spend more time fiddling than flying.

sounds somewhat familiar....but you're doing a great job!

[gradyhappyg]

sounds somewhat familiar....but you're doing a great job!

Thanks coming from one of the best in the business and who's repints I have enjoyed for years thats a super compliment.(patting self on back)

[guzler]

I've never been interested in this purchase because it looked 'plasticy', your tweeks have turned this into a gem looking at your pics, fantastic :)

[expat]

I've never been interested in this purchase because it looked 'plasticy'

That's exactly what kep me away all this time. However, even the un-de-shined models look much much better in the sim vs any screenies. We all know there are some a/c more or less photogenic than when we fly them ourselves. This one is a real dark horse.

[expat]

This "tubby little figher" was the "little train that could" and made a huge difference in the very early Pacific air in WWII. Charming.

[imn2sims]

Well, I got in before the sale ended and got the complete package. Had a little trouble on first install as the plane wouldn't show in the free flight screen in FSX. I uninstalled and re-installed and everything seems to be fine now, weird. I noticed also there is a service pack available on the Just Flight site. I got it but not sure if it's necessary now, anyone know? Also got the repaints from the SOH Warbirds library by RobH. Are these the "de-shined" ? Only flown it for a short time but it feels and sounds real nice.

Thanks,
Steve

[TeaSea]

Well crap....I missed the sale.

Oh well.......

[RobH]

Well, I got in before the sale ended and got the complete package. Had a little trouble on first install as the plane wouldn't show in the free flight screen in FSX. I uninstalled and re-installed and everything seems to be fine now, weird. I noticed also there is a service pack available on the Just Flight site. I got it but not sure if it's necessary now, anyone know? Also got the repaints from the SOH Warbirds library by RobH. Are these the "de-shined" ? Only flown it for a short time but it feels and sounds real nice.

Thanks,
Steve

Steve, my paints do not de-shine. I wish they did, I know I sure tried. The shine is built on the model and you have to de-shine the model yourself using a program named MDLMatXX found on this website http://www.mnwright.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm. Read post #17 in this thread on how to find the program. Once you get it going, read post #5 on how to use it. I'm not the best at tutorials, so if it doesn't make any sense, let me know and I could maybe put up some pictures to make it easier:mixedsmi:

[modelr]

Well crap....I missed the sale.

Oh well.......

I'm in the site right now 9:30PM Central time, and it's still on.

For those wondering about the paints, the big pack is pack A & B combined. Pack C has all different paints. Any of the four packs will get you all 4 of the aircraft models, with both tank and no tank versions. (Just downloaded and installed the pack C package.

I've had the main (big) pack for awhile, haven't flown it, yet. Will try some of the texture tricks listed here.

[imn2sims]

Steve, my paints do not de-shine. I wish they did, I know I sure tried. The shine is built on the model and you have to de-shine the model yourself using a program named MDLMatXX found on this website http://www.mnwright.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm. Read post #17 in this thread on how to find the program. Once you get it going, read post #5 on how to use it. I'm not the best at tutorials, so if it doesn't make any sense, let me know and I could maybe put up some pictures to make it easier:mixedsmi:

Got it, thanks, I might give it a go.

Steve

[Martyn]

If you managed to miss the sale, please contact me and I'll sort you out: martyn[at]justflight.com

[TeaSea]

No need for me! I was looking in the wrong place (Yeah!)....installing it now.


Thanks for the offer!

[imn2sims]

Steve, my paints do not de-shine. I wish they did, I know I sure tried. The shine is built on the model and you have to de-shine the model yourself using a program named MDLMatXX found on this website http://www.mnwright.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm. Read post #17 in this thread on how to find the program. Once you get it going, read post #5 on how to use it. I'm not the best at tutorials, so if it doesn't make any sense, let me know and I could maybe put up some pictures to make it easier:mixedsmi:

Gave it a go but must be doin' something wrong as I see no diifference after modifying the MDL file. Does it matter what is chosen in the "property to display" and "Texture assignment" drop down boxes?

Thanks
Steve

[Skyhawk_310R]

For what it may be worth, and realizing it may well be too late to be helpful, one trend I see is modeling the prop to look like it does when its motion is captured on video tape. The video RPM is so slow compared to the actual RPM of the prop that it produces an optical illusion. In truth, when a prop revolves at around 1,000 to 5,000 RPM's to the naked eye it becomes an almost perfectly blended blur. Only at night with the stobe light reflecting off the prop can you replicate what the video camera does. Also, if the sun is hitting the blades at the optimal angle you can get a tight specular line that strobes rapidly in the same spot. Other than that, it is a faint blur.

Anyway, if this is not helpful, then please disregard.

With respect to the paint, it looks really nice, and in truth you can actually have both the "shiny" version of your paint and the "duller" version. It really depends upon how much time the salt air has had to oxidize the paint. When they came out of the factory, even that flat paint shined like your efforts show. Put them on a carrier for a month and suddenly the salt air combined with the oil mixing with the exhaust carbon plus the dirt (especially on those coral strips) and flat and dull was no longer an option! LOL!!

Anyway, beautiful paint! I adore those early war stripped rudders and circle stars with the red interior!

Ken

[expat]

I am not quite satisfied with the prop blur on this (and some of my other WWII Warbirds). Have been experimenting using some other more faint textures, e.g. the SOH Tigercat most recent version is very subtle. However, despite adding this to the main texture or repaint folder of the Wildcat, there doesn't seem to be any change from the default, even when it is disabled, which is odd.

[PCAviator]

Nice work there. Looks much more realistic!

[RobH]

Gave it a go but must be doin' something wrong as I see no diifference after modifying the MDL file. Does it matter what is chosen in the "property to display" and "Texture assignment" drop down boxes?

Thanks
Steve

Steve, mine are set to Specularity and Diffuse. I have never touched them. Here is a quickly made pic with instructions. Hope it helps and makes sense.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83/RobH1108/FSX%20F4F%20Wildcat/MODELDESHINE.jpg

[RobH]

I am not quite satisfied with the prop blur on this (and some of my other WWII Warbirds). Have been experimenting using some other more faint textures, e.g. the SOH Tigercat most recent version is very subtle. However, despite adding this to the main texture or repaint folder of the Wildcat, there doesn't seem to be any change from the default, even when it is disabled, which is odd.

Expat, did you change both the prop textures? There are two in the main texture folder. Don't know if the model uses them both, or even why there are two in there. One is named AH_propblur_t.bmp and AH_Wildcat_Prop.dds.

[expat]

There are two in the main texture folder.

DOH!!! Completely missed those. Thanks Rob. I was fooling around the the "AH_Propblur_bmp" texture at the top of the folder think "this must be it" which made absolutely no difference. Will fiddle some more and post any noticeable changes/improvements.

[RobH]

DOH!!! Completely missed those. Thanks Rob. I was fooling around the the "AH_Propblur_bmp" texture at the top of the folder think "this must be it" which made absolutely no difference. Will fiddle some more and post any noticeable changes/improvements.

Your welcome! Looking forward to your improvements!

[RobH]

Nice work there. Looks much more realistic!


Thank you and Welcome to the Outhouse!

[expat]

That did the trick to change the prop blur. It's the "AH_Wildcat_Prop.bmp". Here is one of several alternatives I am in the middle of trying. I like very light blurs, too many come with very "hard" disks or too visible ones in my opinion. On this plane and also on some of the other warbirds I still see a too distinct moving blade "pattern" which is by itself OK and realistic BUT for some reason it "rock" or cycles back and forth too rapidly. A pattern that moves slowly or more fluidly - like the pattern the human eye sees in the wagon wheels in a Western movie -are more realistic looking. On some planes changing the pitch directly affects this. I wonder if there are any changes to prop entries in the air.cfg that would make a visible change without upsetting the flight characteristics.

[expat]

This is looking a bit better.

[Skyhawk_310R]

At the risk of being pushy, and that's certainly not my intent here, I may not have been clear in my first post. When I said that the prop spinning anywhere from 1,000 RPM's to 5,000 RPM's (and even higher if it is possible), is a smoothly blended faint blur, what I was trying to convey in words is that you cannot parse out separate blades, even as smoothly blended "pie wedges."

Unfortunately, all most folks have seen with these classic warbirds is video camera images -- motion pictures. And unfortunately all those quaint examples of props seeming to rotate backwards, or strobe, or anything other than a smoothly blended, faintly visible disc, is an optical illusion resulting from the inconsistencies of motion picture film speed versus the fast rotational velocity of the prop. In fact, high speed film is even worse, being so fast in its development time that it can actually be seen to slow the blades down so that you can actually see them appear to spin at ridiculously slow RPM's. The human eye simply cannot do what the film is doing. So, this accounts for the stark differences.

As stupid as such a statement I'm about to make can make me appear, if you had to err on the side of getting close, you'd be closer to the reality of it (as the naked human eyes sees it) to actually have no prop spin animation at all! Now, of course, customers would go nuts over that, so I'm certainly not offering that as a recommendation -- more as another effort to explain the reality of it.

Anyway, let me repeat that this Wildcat looks beautiful and so in no way am I trying to push a point of view contrary to what the design team wishes to achieve. I just wanted to try to clarify my earlier remarks in case I was not clear.

Cheers,

Ken

[expat]

Totally with you Ken on your assessment. As this is really pretend flying this is something where everyone should "season to taste" for whatever works best for them and find most pleasing.

[CP1207]

Skyhawk_310R

"In fact, high speed film is even worse, being so fast in its development time that it can actually be seen to slow the blades down so that you can actually see them appear to spin at ridiculously slow RPM's. The human eye simply cannot do what the film is doing. So, this accounts for the stark differences."

Here is a great example of a "floating" Hind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5POy9iKtPA&feature=related

[bazzar]

Blurprops have been a problem since day one with FS. The keyframed animation of a blurprop cannot replicate the visual appearance of a propeller rotating at variable speeds because in FS models it is a fixed rotation speed set by the number of keyframes over a set timeframe. The sim only sort of replicates prop movement at different throttle and pitch settings, it can't set up any kind of visual "trickery".

With the Wildcat, we tried everything from wedge shaped profiles, triangular segments to double discs etc. The results were always similar. We even tried an an. imation routine to "thicken" the blur when at coarse pitch. This actually worked but only from certain angles as the sim engine can't cope with rendering 3D alpha channels on the move.

In the end it comes down to doing what you like best.

BTW don't forget that there is now a weathered cockpit set for this release for those who prefer the war weary look, available at the JF site.

[TeaSea]

Agree with Bazzar, realism doesn't necessarily translate to a realistic model. The model is a "suggestion" of the prop rather than a realistic depiction. Nothing wrong with that.


Also agree with Skyhawk.....you do not see distinctive prop blur....physically impossible.

[Skyhawk_310R]

Barry,

I am thrilled to see you folks are the ones working on this Wildcat. Great to see, and long time since we've communicated to each other -- too long in fact!

Cheers,

Ken

[bazzar]

Well Hello Ken!:wavey:

Sorry mate I hadn't recognised your forum name. How the Dickens are you?

[sambt]

Really nice skins. Makes the Wildcat look like a real wardog. In fact I managed to get the Wildcat on sale just for these new skins. Great job. Are they ready and where can I get 'em?

Thanks

Sam

[imn2sims]

Rob, thanks very much for the picture tutorial. I see what I was doing wrong. I was trying to choose in the bottom left window instead of the top like you said. Must learn to read more closely:redf:. I will try again tomorrow. Thanks again for your time and effort.

Steve

[RobH]

Rob, thanks very much for the picture tutorial. I see what I was doing wrong. I was trying to choose in the bottom left window instead of the top like you said. Must learn to read more closely:redf:. I will try again tomorrow. Thanks again for your time and effort.

Steve

Your welcome Steve, good luck!! Keep us posted, and let me know if you have any more questions:salute:

[Skyhawk_310R]

Well Hello Ken!:wavey:

Sorry mate I hadn't recognised your forum name. How the Dickens are you?

Living the dream, man!

Ken

[rayhere48]

What ships are you guys using for takeoffs and landings for this WW2 aircraft? Looks funny using a modern ship for traps.

[gradyhappyg]

What ships are you guys using for takeoffs and landings for this WW2 aircraft? Looks funny using a modern ship for traps.

Looks like most of the ones used in this topic are these: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?60995-Battle-of-Midway-USN-and-IJN-ships

[crashaz]

LOL! Beat me to it Grady!:applause:

[imn2sims]

Your welcome Steve, good luck!! Keep us posted, and let me know if you have any more questions:salute:

OK, I just did the F4F-3 model and used 50,50,50 and I like it a lot from the outside, BUT when I jumped in to take her for a flight I got a surprise. I had pretty hot-pink lower canopy frames! Now this is where it gets really weird. Before doing any changes I copied the original model folder just in case I screwed up. Now, having figured that I DID screw up I replaced the F4F-3.mdl file I altered with the original and restarted FSX. OK, the outside was once again shiny as original but the hot-pink was still waiting for me when I jumped inside!!! I selected an F4F-4 aircraft and all was good inside as I expected. So at this point I figure I'll try de-shining one of these and see what happens. This time everything looks great outside and inside and I didn't do anything different. The only explanation I can come up with is the texture was corrupt from the get-go as since I just got the Wildcat I think maybe I had NEVER been in the F4F-3 cockpit before I altered the file. I believe I only had 2 flights prior and they were in the -4s. I may just re download and install the whole thing again unless anyone has a better idea.:isadizzy:

Steve