Switzerland have chosen the Gripen !

[VaporZ]

Its official !

Switzerland contest for 22 combat aircraft to replace its F-5E/F Tiger II curent fleet involving
Rafale, Typhoon and Gripen have been won by Saab with its JAS-39C/D Gripen offer.

Its here ( in french )
http://www.lesechos.fr/entreprises-secteurs/air-defense/actu/0201770916196-avions-de-combat-la-suisse-aurait-choisi-le-gripen-256339.php

3 billion swiss francs for 22 Gripen.
compared to around
4 billion swiss francs for 22 Rafale or 22 Typhoon.

Swiss politicians have chosen the lower bid ! and the 3rd position on the technical contest won by the Rafale.
:mixedsmi:
VaporZ

[awj112]

As the old military saying goes, "Remember, the weapon you are using was built by the lowest bidder..."

[Tako_Kichi]

Yeah but......as the Swiss have been a neutral nation for almost 200 years they are never likely to fire a round/missile in anger. They could have bought 200 of their own Pilatus aircraft and had lots of jobs for Swiss people instead. 200 PC-21's not firing weapons are just as effective as 22 Gripens not firing them.

[fsafranek]

The decision makes sense to me from all I've read although I secretly had hopes for the Rafale. Since these will be replacing F-5E's and Switzerland is a nuetral nation (not going around fighting other people's wars or starting them), the Gripen is a logical choice. Now, can the afford it?
:ernae:

[fsafranek]

As the old military saying goes, "Remember, the weapon you are using was built by the lowest bidder..."
True for components and parts but not always for the entire weapon system.
However in this case, yes, the Gripen was the least expensive option.
:ernae:

[Isra]

Yeah but......as the Swiss have been a neutral nation for almost 200 years they are never likely to fire a round/missile in anger. They could have bought 200 of their own Pilatus aircraft and had lots of jobs for Swiss people instead. 200 PC-21's not firing weapons are just as effective as 22 Gripens not firing them.

Who told you Switzerland would not firing anything in a Conflict?
There are just a Handful of Countries throwing Stuff from the Sky's, and it's not that effective as many belive.
To win a conflict is not about having the best Systems in your Cockpit, it's basically about the iron will to win.

[Tako_Kichi]

Who told you Switzerland would not firing anything in a Conflict?
200 years of history says so. The Swiss are very good at avoiding conflict and I admire them for that. :applause:

[Isra]

Well, the Swiss did not had a conflict in the past 200 Years, the reason they did not throw anything :icon_lol:

[wombat666]

An eminently sensible choice, given that SAAB build excellent aeroplanes and are neighbours.
And FWIW: Some 500-600 years ago the Swiss 'Mercenaries' were among the most feared troops throughout Europe.
I doubt the Swiss lack any will to fight if necessary.
:kilroy:

[Tako_Kichi]

And FWIW: Some 500-600 years ago the Swiss 'Mercenaries' were among the most feared troops throughout Europe.
I doubt the Swiss lack any will to fight if necessary.
Oh don't get me wrong I'm not saying the Swiss wouldn't fight if their backs were against the wall but it struck me as odd that all that money is being spent on aircraft that are never likely to be used to their full potential.

[kilo delta]

Oh don't get me wrong I'm not saying the Swiss wouldn't fight if their backs were against the wall but it struck me as odd that all that money is being spent on aircraft that are never likely to be used to their full potential.

Hmmm...I reckon that the aircraft will definitely be used to their full potential,only they probably won't be using real weapons on hostile targets. Their training and tactics will be (and have been) every bit as good as many of the world's superpowers.

[Tako_Kichi]

I think I will just crawl back into my hole now. I am obviously not helping the thread any today. :isadizzy:

Just to make it absolutely clear non of my comments were meant as a slight on the Swiss nation, they were, if anything, 'tongue-in-cheek' replies with a little bit of humour hidden inside them. :icon_lol:

[kilo delta]

:icon_lol: ... No offence taken,Larry. Don't worry...you're not gonna be having Swiss Special Forces banging on your door tonight!!!:icon29::icon29:

[Ferry_vO]

An eminently sensible choice, given that SAAB build excellent aeroplanes and are neighbours.


900 kilometers may not be much by Aussie standards, but here in Europe that's quite a distance.. ! ;)

And good choice of aircraft! :applause:

[OBIO]

I for one love the Swiss national policy:

Make chocolate, not war.

If more nations concentrated on making superb chocolate, just think how nice the world could be. Chocolate is the key to world peace.

OBIO

[Isra]

I think I will just crawl back into my hole now. I am obviously not helping the thread any today. :isadizzy:

Just to make it absolutely clear non of my comments were meant as a slight on the Swiss nation, they were, if anything, 'tongue-in-cheek' replies with a little bit of humour hidden inside them. :icon_lol:

No worries Larry, I got the Point !
By the way, the Swiss Airforce has every Year their exercises in the northern Sea of Germany, throwing and shooting the real Stuff on targets.
If Switzerland will get the new Birds, no one knows, they will decide it finally in 2 Years.....unbelivable :sleep:

[Allen]

Nothing but another saab story....

[AndyG43]

I for one love the Swiss national policy:

Make chocolate, not war.

If more nations concentrated on making superb chocolate, just think how nice the world could be. Chocolate is the key to world peace.

OBIO

Good for the heart too, in moderation.

This deal kinda makes sense; Gripen is a damn good aircraft, by most nations standards. And the Czechs (who are virtually neighbours) had a similar requirement & made the same decision.

[Jagdflieger]

Interesting choice and one that makes sense given Switzerland's unique position in Europe and it's size. While not a big seller, five countries fly the Grippen currently or at least have them on order. Switzerland makes the sixth country to choose the Grippen. I did read a while back that SAAB was going out of the fighter plane business at the end of the Grippen run. I wonder how this sale will affect that decision.

One reason the Swiss have been able to remain neutral for so long (Sweden too) is that they have a well equipped and trained military with a huge reserve component. The Swiss actively defended their border during WW II with several allied and axis planes forced down by Swiss fighters.

It seems like just a year or two ago, the Swiss were voting on disbanding their air force. Guess the the vote didn't go through.

Speaking of Grippens, didn't Alphasim at one time have an FS9 version in the works?

[Flyboy208]

I wonder if the Patrouille Suisse Team will convert to the Gripen or retain their F-5's ... ? Mike

[AndyG43]

Speaking of Grippens, didn't Alphasim at one time have an FS9 version in the works?


Yes, they released it ages ago. Itosan did it as well.

[Ferry_vO]

Speaking of Grippens, didn't Alphasim at one time have an FS9 version in the works?

http://secure.simmarket.com/virtavia-saab-gripen.phtml

Good models, but quite basic on systems. Nice flyer though!

[Okami]

Actually, even though Switzerland has technically been a neutral country in the past few centuries, their air force did actually fire its guns in anger numerous times during World War II. Granted, most of World War II they spent their time intercepting lone 'stragglers' (either Italian, German, American or British), but early in June 1940 there were a couple of serious incidents.

On the 4th of June 1940, there were a number of real dogfights between German and Swiss planes (1 Swiss C-35 vs. 1 German He-111 - indecisive; 2 Swiss Bf-109Es vs. 2 German Bf-110s - indecisive; 2 Swiss Bf-109Es vs. 3 German Bf-110s - indecisive; 2 Swiss Morane vs. 2 German Bf-110s - indecisive; 2 Swiss Bf-109Es vs. 2 German Bf-110s - one Swiss Bf-109E damaged; 3 Swiss Bf-109Es vs. 8 German Bf-110s - indecisive; 2 Swiss Bf-109Ds vs. 2 German Bf-109Es - 1 Swiss Bf-109D shot down, pilot killed).

Four days later, on the 8th of June 1940, there were further serious incidents, when the Germans deliberately issued a Freie Jagd mission over Swiss soil, which resulted in a number of dogfights (1 Swiss C-35 vs. 3 German Bf-110s - Swiss C-35 shot down, 2 crew killed; 12 Swiss Bf-109Es & 1 Swiss Bf-109D vs. 28 German Bf-110s - 1 Swiss Bf-109E shot down, 2 Swiss Bf-109Es damaged, 1 Swiss pilot severely injured, 3 German Bf-110 shot down and 1 damaged; 3 German crew killed, 3 German crew captured, 1 German pilot injured).

Of course, that all resulted in some diplomatic fracas between Switzerland and Nazi Germany, which was ultimately resolved.

Not to mention the time the RAF mistakenly hit Geneva, Renens, Basel and Zurich in 1940, or the occasions on which USAAF bombed Staffhausen (April 1st 1944, 50 B-24s, 40 Swiss civilians killed); Stein am Rhein (February 22nd 1945, 13 aircraft, 21 Swiss civilians killed); Zurich (March 4th 1945, 6 B-24s, 12 tons of HE & 12 tons of incendary dropped) or Basel (March 4th 1945, 3 B-24s, 12 tons of HE dropped); or the other mistaken USAAF attacks on Koblenz, Cornol, Niederweningen and Thayngen in 1944, and Chiasso (twice) and Brusio in 1945.

[AndyG43]

Actually, even though Switzerland has technically been a neutral country in the past few centuries, their air force did actually fire its guns in anger numerous times during World War II.

And since September 11th the threat of suicide attacks by terrorists is a real one that nations have to be able to deal with; terrorists tend not to recognise neutrality, and I can imagine there are places in Switzerland that would be considered legitimate & valuable targets. So it makes sense for Switzerland to have a capable fighter, and Gripen would be ideal for that role.

[lefty]

Amidst all this talk of neutrality, nobody seems to have twigged that the Gripen is built by the Swedes, and, er, aren't they neutral too ???

It is only seriously armed neutrality that seems to work - ask the Belgians and Danes..... Invading Switzerland would be difficult enough for topographical reasons but doubly so with an effective defence force.

[Cazzie]

Even neutrality does not often stop an invading army. But knowing every adult citizen and probably quite a few teens and children possess arms in a mountainous country, does. All Swiss are allowed to possess arms and every citizen is a member of the militia, something anathema to most of Europe. Think of southern America as the same, we all got weapons, more than one most of the time.