Monitor advice requested

[hawkeye52]

Well, my 21-inch Nokia CRT is showing signs of giving up the ghost. All new LCD/plasma monitors are in the wide-screen format which is fine for spreadsheets (I don't watch movies) but not good for FS because of the distortion it causes to round gauges in the 2-D & VC. I know a few a/c have had their panels modified for use in the wide format, but that's only a few.

So this is my question: Is there a way (a setting) that allows FS to display in the "narrow" format on a wide-screen?
(In other words, it would not fill the entire width; just the central portion of the wide-screen)

- H52

[nigel richards]

H52 you have my sympathy...I'm going down exactly the same path.

My Phillips monitor, at the ripe old age of 3, started displaying/not displaying in an infuriatingly random fashion about ten days ago. Every two minutes the darn thing would suddenly go black, and I found that by tapping the area near the control buttons, the thing would spring back to life for a few minutes. Then the whole routine would repeat itself.

It got to the stage where it was impossible to do any work. I was hopping mad!

And now after having a similar episode with a tv by the same company;
I wouldn't even buy a lightbulb from the buggers.

So I went to my local Alladin's cave of wizzardry and they are thrilled to try and palm me off with a widescreen.

In the meantime, they've lent me their own Samsung 'normal' monitor which I've fallen madly in love with.
My problem is now to convince them to give me their used monitor and cancel the widescreen.

So H52, why don't you see if you can pick up a slightly used monitor, might save you a few quid too. :salute:

[Tom Clayton]

As far as I know, VC's aren't affected on a widescreen, just the 2D - but then that's where I spend most of my time. FS9 was designed for 4:3 aspect monitors, which is what CRT's were. the 16:9's and 16:10's give the 2D a noticeable horizontal stretch, and 5:4's (1280x1024) have a slight vertical stretch. If you can afford it, special order yourself a decent 1600x1200. There's still some out there, but not too many in stores. I'd love to find one myself. Full screens are better for production, since most types of document are based on portrait dimensions. Widescreens usually end up chopping off the bottom two thirds if you have the document displayed wide enough to read what you're doing. Zoom out enough to see more, and you have acres of wasted grey area on either side.

[pfflyers]

There have been a number of threads devoted to the 2d stretch issue (it is only the 2d that is distorted, the vc is fine, better in fact).

I was bummed out about the 2d stretch too, when I went to widescreen, but everything else about FS is better to me IMHO.

Eventually I just got used to it, I rarely use the 2d anyway. I have modified a few panels to reshape the panel bitmap to create a widescreen panel and so have a few other developers.

I think if you go for the widescreen you will end up wishing you'd done it sooner, I'd never go back.

[nigel richards]

[QUOTE=pfflyers;646090](it is only the 2d that is distorted, the vc is fine, better in fact).QUOTE]

As Tom pointed out; that's exactly where I want to be, unless the vc is way above average.

[hawkeye52]

Thanks for the info and comments, fellas.

Nigel -- my present monitor is a 21-inch CRT; to replace it with a similar item has two major and one minor disadvantage:
Major 1: mucho moolah, wampum, drachmas.
Major 2: the beast gives off lottsa BTUs; actually raises the temp in my "office" several degrees.
Minor: occupies a substantial amount of my desk.

So once it dies, a "flat-screen" has to replace it.

Tom and pf -- good to know VC is unaffected. Although I resisted VC-flying until recently, I am now preferring it. But, as you know, many a/c have no (or poor) VCs, so we have to fall back onto the 2-D.

I guess I'll start trawling sites (e.g. Newegg) to see what is available in the 4:3 ratio and if the $$ difference compared to a similar (diagonal dimension) wide screen is not too great..... Otherwise, I'll simply have to adapt to oval gauges.:icon_lol:

- H52

[Mick]

I can't answer the question you asked, but I have a comment on your initial assumption. It's not true that all you can get now are wide screen monitors. They still make and sell monitors in the old 6x8 aspect ratio. You just have to look around to find one. I found one this past January, according to the date on the receipt. High volume retailers seem to assume that everyone wants wide angle monitors, so you'll probably have to go to a computer specialty shop to find the 6x8 kind.

I was fortunate to run into an honest salesman when I was shopping at a big chain electronics store. All they had was wide angle monitors, and when I mentioned to the salesman that I wished I could still get a 6x8 one he said, "You can still get one; you just can't get it here." He sent me down the road to a small local computer shop where I found what I wanted.

Mine is an Asus VB171/VB191 series. I believe the specific model is CR191, but I'm not certain. CR191 is penciled on the receipt. I can't check to see what the graphic on the monitor itself says because that graphic is covered over by the electrical tape that holds in place the clear plastic sheet I installed to protect the screen from a cat who has a compulsion to scratch on any vertical surface.

I just went to Google Shopping and googled Asus CR191 and Asus VB191 and got no hits. When I just googled Asus monitor I got a gazillion hits, but they all looked like wide screens. If you go to one of the retailers that pop up on a google for Asus monitor, or to Asus' site, and ask about 6x8 monitors you can probably find one.

If you can't find one on the web, call the shop where I bought mine, and they'll probably be willing to sell you one and ship it to you. They had a bunch when I bought mine, and that was just back in January. They even had a selection of sizes. I got a 17" one because that's what I have room for on my desk, but they also had 19" and possibly other sizes. I paid $129.99 plus tax for mine.

PC Warehouse
935 Riverdale Street
West Springfield, MA 01089
(413) 747-5147

[aeromed202]

I tried the wifes wide screen for a few days and wasn't too impressed for the money it cost. It is for sure a nice thing for office work but for FS in particular it was a can live without it situation. I ended up cropping the screen until round gauges were round then ignored the desk top stuff that showed around the edges. I ended up with a used IBM Thinkvision 15"x12" screen that works just fine for a fraction of what a new wide one costs.

[Duckie]

A couple of years ago when I built my latest PC I went from a 19" Viewsonic CRT, which I truely loved, to a 23" Viewsonic flatscreen LCD monitor. I am basically a VC flyer, so the new widescreen format did not negatively affect my simulator experience.

However, one feature of this monitor, which you may want to consider, is that the display mode is switchable between 16:9, 16:10 AND 4:3. I have to use the 4:3 mode when flying Janes WWII Fighters online because this sim is not compatible with the widescreen format. Another nice feature is that I can save that game in 4:3 selection so that each time I boot into WWII the monitor automatically switches to 4:3 mode.

I hated to give up my 19" CRT but I would definately not go back. The color and definaition displayed on my new (2 years old now) HD monitor are excellent.

Regards,
Steve

[hawkeye52]

Great input, MicK! I have just finished sending pcwarehousema.com an e-mail asking what they have available.

Aeromed, your comment has dissuaded me from too quickly capitulating to a widescreen.

Duckie's alternative is probably as close as we will come to answering my original question. After I post this reply I will google Viewsonic to see what they have available.

Thanks to y'all for taking the time to help. :icon29::icon29::icon29:

- H52

[hawkeye52]

Following Duckie's suggestion, I scouted Viewsonic monitors with adjustable aspect ratios and was pleasantly surprised at their reasonable prices (well under $200 @ Newegg). But then I got to thinking.... I run FS on a dedicated PC; no spreadsheets, no You tube -- nada! So I don't need an adjustable aspect ratio; all I need is a 4:3 monitor (thanks, Mick!). For a given diagonal dimension, this will actually give me a larger FS image (because the adjustable aspect ratio works by shrinking the image to fit the vertical height of the screen, hence the black sidebars that Tom mentioned).

So when my Nokia finally expires, the choice is clear! Thanks again to all who commented. :salute:

- H52

[Willy]

Hawkeye, when my old 17" flatscreen CRT finally died a couple of years ago, I replaced it with a 19" ViewSonic VA903mb regular aspect LCD monitor with a native resolution of 1280x1024. My 9 year comp wouldn't support wide screen. I am well satisfied with this monitor and recommend at least looking at it to anyone who doesn't want a wide screen. When I finally replace this comp, I intend on keeping this monitor with the new one. If you google it, it's still kicking up as available.

[Wing_Z]

Depends on your video card, I suppose, but the extra real estate on a wide screen allows, well, more.
I have a 24" Dell running at 1920x1200 and it's just brilliant, you can actually see other aircraft flying at 5nm, stuff like that.

Looking at this doesn't worry me at all:

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/CHARL_photos/SOH/LANC.jpg

If I turn my head 90 degrees I can see the gauges are quite ovoid.
But you know, it's what you expect to see that matters.
I'm sure it would bug you if you expected to see round dials - but try this:
Zoom the picture fullscreen, and hold a small disk out to the screen, horizontally.
Then drop it down 250mm or so, and compare to the second row of dials on the Lancaster panel above.

Do you see? it's virtually the same oval!
Once you've told your brain that, there's no issue ;)

[hawkeye52]

Hey Willy, that Viewsonic model is one of several I was checking earlier today!

Wing, thank you for posting that pic; at first glance, I did not notice the non-round gauges! If that is the extent of wide-screen distortion, I can certainly live with it. And yes, I would expect/hope the view would be wider. The typical multi-engine 2-D view from the left seat extends barely past the center post whereas in your pic it extends well beyond -- something I really like. Wing, can you tell me the aspect ratio of the monitor you used for the Lanc 2-D panel screenie?

I should mention that I have seen pix of 2-D panels where the gauges were grossly distorted and that is what fueled my concern regarding the wide-screen format.

- H52

[Wing_Z]

H52, it's impossible to know what you are seeing, of course!
My monitor runs at 1920x1200 pixels, as I said, which is an aspect ratio of 16:10.
Here's what I see, looking at this forum: On screen that shot measures 350mm x 220mm.
Not sure if the aspect would be different on your monitor...

[pfflyers]

I'm running 1440x900 on my monitor (its highest res, inexpensive Dell monitor).

In 2d the gauges are noticeably unround, but I feel the trade for a wider field of view in the vc is well worth it.

I use the 2d very little as a rule. If I really want an undistorted 2d panel for a particular aircraft I make my own if nobody else has already done one.

During a recent move I temperarily hooked my FS rig up to an old 'square' monitor and really felt like I was looking through a keyhole.

[hawkeye52]

Thanks pf ; I'm leaning toward a wide-screen after viewing wing's screenie. I have not been at my FS PC all week, but as soon as I get back, my first order of business will be to measure wing's pic on my screen, and go from there.

Once again, my sincere thanks to all who have chimed in. :salute: I suspect this thread is -- and will be -- of interest to many simmers who will eventually face monitor replacement decisions.

- H525

[Mick]

I've seen FS9 on a friend's wide screen monitor and the "ovalization" of the instruments didn't seem too bad. I figured I could live with it if necessary. I have other programs besides FS that were designed to look right in 6x8 format, so I still wanted to stick with a 6x8 screen as long as possible.

[hawkeye52]

I'm reviving this thread in order to wrap it up.

Almost a year after my Nokia CRT started showing signs of expiring, the situation deteriorated to the point that the screen would go dark after about a half hour of use (until it cooled). As a result of the advice I received from fellow SOHers I had decided I would go with a widescreen when the time came. Newegg had a 24" BenQ 16:9 at liquidation pricing so the deal was done. I am VERRRY pleased with the appearance of FS9 on this monitor. My first impression is that scenery details are sharper and appear to be visible at greater distance. Gauge "ovalization" -- the big buggaboo that had me so worried -- has turned out to be a misplaced concern. Oh, it's there alright, but frankly I look right past it as there is so much more to see. As both wing_z and pfflyers pointed out, the increase in "real estate" more than compensates for the un-rounded gages. I have included screenies to illustrate the "ovalization" effect on a variety of 2-D panels. Of course, if you fly in "all-glass" 2-D cockpits "ovalization" is not a concern.

My thanks to all of you who took time to provide me with the benefit of your experience.

- H52

[aeromed202]

Some time ago I had the opportunity to get a better monitor, I walked right past all the box stores with the "New" wide stuff and headed for a used computer place. There I found a very nice IBM 15" ThinkVision monitor of standard aspect ratio for around $60. Full screen it does a fine job rendering FS without oval gauges. The wife wanted a wide screen for documents and such and when I tried FS on it I invariably cropped it to get round things round. I ended up making a black desktop background with the icons huddled behind the game screen until I just admitted to myself I preferred a standard aspect ratio, and getting a decent screen at a fraction of the cost of the stuff being peddled at the at the big stores didn't hurt either. It's all a matter of preference.